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#174952 - 08/22/07 10:34 AM Question for Christian Survivors
Brokenhearted Offline
Member

Registered: 08/07/06
Posts: 644
Loc: TX
How hard was it for you to surrender your heart to God and be saved after your abusive pasts? This is my biggest concern for my H - that he has never trusted God enough to be saved. I just wondered if there is anything I can do (besides pray) that he can come to that point of trust. He still does not trust anyone, so I imagine it is hard even to open his heart to the Lord.

This is a very painful realization for me, that his abuse may keep him away from God for all eternity b/c of trust issues.

Any comments would be welcome.

_________________________
Brokenhearted

It were better for him that a millstone were hanged around his neck, and he cast into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little ones.
Luke 17:2

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#174961 - 08/22/07 10:57 AM Re: Question for Christian Survivors [Re: Brokenhearted]
Still Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/16/07
Posts: 6571
Loc: Never Sugar Mountain
Long – But please read Brokenhearted

When I was 10 – 14 I was acting-out on a grand scale. I was going after sexual encounters with older boys and flirting with adults in a dangerous way. I was selling it for trades and/or cash. I had no hope. Drugs, disease and death were a certain future for me.

During the summer that I turned 14, I went to Cape Cod to live with my two older sisters who had rented a beach house for the year. It was a nice house full of hippie-types who partied like crazy people and played loud music. Some even played instruments and I really liked being around them. They amused me. I also fully expected to have encounters with either the guys or the girls there. It was to be a party-oriented stay for the month of August, 1974.

My sisters met me at the bus terminal in Hyannis. They instantly began to tell me about Jesus and this new “salvation” they had found. All I could think was “this CANT be good for my party plans.” It was a long summer of dealing with them, their street-witnessing, prayer meetings and bible studies. See…I had to go along with them on a lot of that. I hated it!!! I also FIRMLY believed that I, Rob Brown, could never have his soul saved by virtue of what I had been involved in. So none of this “Christian stuff” applied to me. Rather…. I just wanted to be on the beach, partying, or out on my sailboat isolating.

There was this one street evangelist (David) whom latched onto me. Guess what I thought he wanted? Well…it turns out all he wanted was for me to accept Jesus as my savior. He pursued me all over the cape. Once he walked about 10 miles to find me on the beach where I road my bike to get to. So, given that he walked all that way, I felt obliged to listen to him for what turned out to be the next 5 hours. Went through the bible and all of my “even though” objections. Even though I’ve done this with older boys? YES….Even though I do THAT? Yes…. Even though I’d do you now? Yes. Jesus would accept me no matter what I had done…no matter what I was.

The next day, I walked out to the beach and accepted Jesus Christ as my savior. I was struck-down to the ground by the holy spirit and laid there bawling my eyes out for hours. My life changed from that moment-on. It was not a perfect life. I struggled with acting-out via drugs and alcohol in my 20s (no sexual acting out). But I would be dead without the saving grace of God.

I hope this story helps. If your husband wants to chat live, I’d be happy to talk with him via MS chatroom.


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#174962 - 08/22/07 11:03 AM Re: Question for Christian Survivors [Re: Still]
MarkK Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/02/07
Posts: 2503
Loc: Denver, CO
Brokenhearted,

I just want to say - don't underestimate the power of your praying. I saw my brother-in-law come to Christ after 25 years of saying he'd "never be good enough for God". My sister refused to give up praying for him. Hold fast.

And a quick note to Rob - thanks for sharing your story. It gave me a new lease on rejoicing - remembering the incredible love God has for us all.

M


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#174964 - 08/22/07 11:10 AM Re: Question for Christian Survivors [Re: Still]
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
Brokenhearted,

I have to admit that here I am of no use to you at all. Though I am making good progress on almost all fronts in my recovery, as a spiritual person I feel I am as broken as I was when I was a kid getting raped a couple times a week.

I hear others talk about their spiritual healing and their closeness to God, but all that is just words to me. I think it's great they have that, but I can't imagine how they got to that point or how I would do the same.

I can't say I worry about being saved. Hell holds no terror for me; I figure I've already spent 16 years there, so at least I know my way around. I just feel empty and vaguely sorry at the way things are. Don't get me wrong; I do feel I'm a spiritual person. I believe in God and I wish I were closer to him; I just don't think the feeling is mutual.

Now there's an unhelpful post! I'll just send this instead of deleting it, though, since it may be useful for you to know your husband's feelings are shared by others.

Much love,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

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#174978 - 08/22/07 11:37 AM Re: Question for Christian Survivors [Re: roadrunner]
Still Offline
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Registered: 02/16/07
Posts: 6571
Loc: Never Sugar Mountain
Larry,

I fully understand your position here. At the same time, I am very sorry to read it. But you are right, it ough to help BH with understanding her H's position as well.

All I can say to you Larry is that God did not LET that happen to you. He never left you. There is true evil in this world and it found its way to you.

God does love you. You are alive, wonderful and have a substantial life.

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You are using 118 of the 300 allowed characters.

Still Not Recognized


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#174981 - 08/22/07 11:42 AM Re: Question for Christian Survivors [Re: Still]
MarkK Offline
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Registered: 04/02/07
Posts: 2503
Loc: Denver, CO
Amen, Rob. I couldn't have said it better.


M


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#174985 - 08/22/07 11:55 AM Re: Question for Christian Survivors [Re: MarkK]
SEVEN ARROWS Offline
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Registered: 08/12/07
Posts: 1298
I come from a christian family and they have been very devoted to god all thier lives. (at least on the outside for people to see).
As a child i got religious instruction, and attended sunday school. It was all church on sunday and bible reading at night. I could never think how can my parents be christians and then do things to me, and let others do things to me. This might be off topic, but you guys have faith and belief. Whilst i grew up either raging and hating god. Then asking him how he could let this happen to me. I still cannot answer this question.

Backspin


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#174987 - 08/22/07 12:01 PM Re: Question for Christian Survivors [Re: SEVEN ARROWS]
Still Offline
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Registered: 02/16/07
Posts: 6571
Loc: Never Sugar Mountain
See...I went through a hell too. I was raped on a regular basis form 7.5 years-old to 10.5 yo. I dont look at it as God "letting it happen to me." As a kid, I did think he had fully left me. But evil happens! During that summer of 1974, he found me through the use of others and brought me home to him.

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#174999 - 08/22/07 12:35 PM Re: Question for Christian Survivors [Re: Still]
Barney Offline


Registered: 07/31/06
Posts: 236
Loc: Southern Utah/Northern Arizon
I too, wondered why God would let it happen to me and certainly felt lots of anger towards Him. In my recovery, I was once presented with the concept that one reason it happened to me was so that i could be the one to ensure the continuation of molesting children would stop with me. Does that thought take away all of my anger at God? No, but at least I can say one of the good things that has come from my experience is that I don't have the desire to molest children and I am grateful to feel that way.


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#175092 - 08/22/07 07:29 PM Re: Question for Christian Survivors [Re: Barney]
shadowkid Offline
WARNING from ModTeam, September 2013: user "Shadowkid" was exposed as a hoaxer. His entire online persona and stories of sexual abuse were fiction. We encourage you not to become emotionally concerned by anything you see in any of his posts. Thank you
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Registered: 11/18/05
Posts: 2437
i'm with you all the way larry,and everyday i see no reason to change my mind . i envy the people who can believe that somebody watches over them ,just dont know how the do it. all i know is it takes some damn strong faith to believe, after what happend to the 4000 guys that call this place home ,im glad those who have kept it

_________________________
its not hard to fall
when you float like a cannonball - damien rice

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#175110 - 08/22/07 09:08 PM Re: Question for Christian Survivors [Re: shadowkid]
buzz_key Offline
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Registered: 03/31/07
Posts: 635
Loc: USA
why do people always want to blame God for the abuse? do you also blame Him for ANYTHING good that has happened to you? or should i say, do you give Him the credit for the good?

If you believe in God and understand WHAT He is, then you would also believe that He CANNOT DO WRONG or BAD, that is contrary to the nature of God - He ONLY does good.

Evil (our abuse) is part of THIS world, not God's. It is here because evil was let loose to rule this planet with Adam and Eve. We are here to live our lives...and yes...so freakin' sadly...we become the victims of that evil.

God didn't do it! But He is there if we truly desire to have a relationship with Him. Think about this...if God protected us from all evil, any evil...He would be enticing us to desire a relationship with Him...

He HAS to let us live in this world and experience it the way it is and IN SPITE of everything here, desire a relationship with HIM...because as one of my feloow MS'ers said the other day - love cannot be coerced, cajoled, forced, it has to be FREELY given to mean anything....so it is with us and God.

please don't be offended or upset, i am not trying to tell anyone they are wrong...i just want to throw my opinion out there for your consideration...just consider it. because, again, the decision about what you believe and want has to come from each of you and not from me or anyone else.


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#175118 - 08/22/07 09:27 PM Re: Question for Christian Survivors [Re: shadowkid]
John Oarc Offline
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Registered: 02/10/06
Posts: 633
Loc: Louisiana
Now I realy believe that in life there are no coincidences. I just posted about this a day or two ago.

Trust, control, fear of letting go, just to name a few made it hard for me to surrender and I am and never will be all the way there, i.e. perfect.

I built myself a control kigdom after the CSA. I worked on my looks, my brains, my social standing and so on because I believed from the time of the CSA that I would nor could ever amount to anything. The world taught me that being someone of importance was proven by outward worth, so in order to prove my worth I chased it for years. The problem is I never, ever felt satisfied as I gained these things. Years of relying on my looks and things, I forgot to mention sex, porn and alcohol, is not an easy thing to just let go of unless, as in my case, something happens to brings you to your knees. I asked for this thing by praying what ever it takes, God and that is when my life truly began to change.

Ten plus years later I can safely say that I had no clue that I never fully let go and let God until two days ago. I could not accept help from anyone including God because I think I felt it would show weakness, dependency, and most importantly, that I was not in control. After my parents divorce and the CSA my nine year old brain realized that it needed to protect me and in order to do that no mistakes could be made, years in advance needed to be thought out meticulously. This pre planning never worked but in a since it did, at least I felt as if I were in control. Miserably comfortable in my box is the way I would describe it.

Long story short, the devil, satan whatever you want to call him played a great hand when he fooled me into believing that I was smarter than him. He let me believe that I had beaten him without God. My intellect, nothing more, had gotten me to this point in my life "control issues again" and that I need not trust anyone but myself as history has proven in my life.

The truth is I have never been in control and I just let him have the wheel two days ago. I must say I'm not all the way okay with that just yet but I'm working on it day by day, "As I reach out with one hand wanting to take it back." The great part is that he cared enough about me to open my heart. He let me see him without my eyes or my intellect, he let me see him as a child would see him.

Psalm 131

1 Lord, my heart is not proud;
I don't look down on others.
I don't do great things,
and I can't do miracles.

2 But I am calm and quiet,
like a baby with its mother.
I am at peace, like a baby with its mother.

3 People of Israel, put your hope in the Lord
now and forever.

God Bless,



Edited by John Oarc (08/22/07 09:35 PM)
_________________________
Whatever It Takes, God


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#175149 - 08/23/07 12:55 AM Re: Question for Christian Survivors [Re: John Oarc]
Brokenhearted Offline
Member

Registered: 08/07/06
Posts: 644
Loc: TX
First, to John Oarc, when you said, "He let me see him without my eyes or my intellect, he let me see him as a child would see him," it brought up a verse I remember:

'And Jesus called a little child to Him, set him in the midst of them, and said, "Assuredly, I say to you, unless you are converted and become as little children, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven. Therefore whoever humbles himself as this little child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven. And whoever receives one little child like this in My name receives Me. But whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in Me to sin it would be better for him if a millstone were hung around his neck, and he were drowned in the depth of the sea.' -- Matthew 18:2-6 Little children (innocent, before any abuse) don't question God so much, they believe and their innate trusting nature is intact. Faith is like that; we can't see God but we believe. And of course it helps to read what He says to us in the Bible.

And, Robbie, thank you for sharing your story. When you say, "I also FIRMLY believed that I, Rob Brown, could never have his soul saved by virtue of what I had been involved in. So none of this “Christian stuff” applied to me," I truly believe my H has had and/or still has these sorts of feelings, feeling unforgiveable for anything he has ever done, maybe even just the cheating in our marriage, but nevertheless, feeling totally unworthy of God's salvation. Regarding his cheating, that is his own sin but still... "Come now and let us reason together," says the Lord, "Though your sins are like scarlet, they shall be as white as snow." Isaiah 1:18. And what's this about feeling guilty for the sins the abusers caused you to commit? That's their guilt, not yours. Maybe remind yourselves that you're accepting blame by feeling guilty for those sins that the abusers caused you to do.


I remember being taught in church that salvation is not something we earn = we can never earn it = rather it is a gift that we merely are to accept. I'm so glad that guy chased you all over the place and that you listened to him for as long as it took. Incredible story.

MarkK, ditto for you where you said, "I saw my brother-in-law come to Christ after 25 years of saying he'd "never be good enough for God". And thank you for reminding me of the power of prayer and stay at it. Your post inspires me.

Larry, your post saddens me b/c you are so helpful to others here and lift others up so often and so well, and your insights and intellect are very keen. I guess that is where again I am convinced of what the Bible tells us, that none of that is necessary to accept His salvation, only faith is, and it's hard when we can't "see" faith or even reason it out. I know you were abused by a "church man" but in reality he did not represent the church, he used it as a front for his deceitful and horrible crimes. So he was not a church man, he was an evil man IN a church, but the church (i.e. God) certainly would never endorse his ways. Please try to separate the two out - he and the church were never one and the same, even though they were associated w/ each other as a front, but that is all it was, a FRONT. A front that he used to get to innocent boys like you, he was a wolf in sheep's clothing.

And I know God loves us all, so your comment "I believe in God and I wish I were closer to him; I just don't think the feeling is mutual." is FALSE. That is just your own abuser talking in your head, your own false feeling of unworthiness. "Luk 12:7 But even the very hairs of your head are all numbered. Fear not therefore: ye are of more value than many sparrows (referring to how God clothes and shelters and feeds and cares for the sparrow so how much more he cares for US)," and, Isaiah 49:15-16 "Can a woman forget her nursing child, that she should not have compassion on the son of her womb? Yea, they may forget, yet will I not forget thee. Behold, I have engraved thee upon the palms of My hands...." God says, "Would a mother ever forget her nursing baby? Not likely. But even if she did, I would never forget you, for you are My children, and your names are in My hands."

Seven Arrows and Shadowkid, I hope that one day you will read the Bible and decide for yourselves after doing so whether God loved/loves you or not. Without reading His correspondence to you, it is hard to do little more than hope and guess and doubt.

I am going to continue praying for my H, and I read somewhere in the Bible you have to pray very specifically. So rather than praying a general prayer that he "get saved so he will have eternal life," I will pray that God will pave the way through happenings in his life that he will be exposed to the Bible and other Christians and that Satan will stop trying to prevent my H from seeing God, etc., but a very specific kind of prayer.

Remember that Satan is constantly working hard to create doubt and guilt and anger and all that will prevent us from accepting Christ. His main tool is deceit. He never sleeps. He rejoices when he succeeds at blinding us to God's love.

An appropriate prayer regarding this might be, "Lord, I now renounce Satan and all his works. I hate his demons. I count them my enemies in the name of Jesus. I loose myself from every dark spirit, from every evil influence, from every satanic bondage, from any spirit in me that is not the Spirit of God. I command all such spirits to leave me now in the name of Jesus.

I call upon You, Lord Jesus, to set me free from every demonic power that has affected me. In the name of Jesus Christ, Risen Saviour, I command every demonic power that has lived within me or oppressed me to leave me now in the name of Jesus Christ. I declare that I am a child of the Living God and that Satan has no right to inhabit any part of me or to oppress me. I thank You, Lord Jesus, and I give You the glory. Amen."

Thanks, guys.














Edited by Brokenhearted (08/23/07 12:59 AM)
_________________________
Brokenhearted

It were better for him that a millstone were hanged around his neck, and he cast into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little ones.
Luke 17:2

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#175150 - 08/23/07 01:59 AM Re: Question for Christian Survivors [Re: Brokenhearted]
shadowkid Offline
WARNING from ModTeam, September 2013: user "Shadowkid" was exposed as a hoaxer. His entire online persona and stories of sexual abuse were fiction. We encourage you not to become emotionally concerned by anything you see in any of his posts. Thank you
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Registered: 11/18/05
Posts: 2437
guys it sounds great but where is the part that says god protects the little children ?i know its in that book somewhere.

_________________________
its not hard to fall
when you float like a cannonball - damien rice

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#175205 - 08/23/07 09:43 AM Re: Question for Christian Survivors [Re: Brokenhearted]
pietie Offline
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Registered: 01/23/07
Posts: 326
Loc: South Africa
We definately all have trust issues in here. My first step towards giving everything to the Lord was not to blame Him for what happened anymore.

I personally think that all of the people has the Trust issue in their lives. I have some good christian friends who never struggled with abuse and yet they struggle to trust God for things in their lives.

What I can say is that one of the best decisions I ever made was to trust God with my life. He say in the Word we will have life and life in abundance and although I am not there yet I am moving towards it. Is it an easy road? No definatley not especially still struggling with the abuse issues. Is it worth while? I think so. The saying goes "let go and let God", but it is never easy to do.

Do not ever understimate the power of prayer as well as the power of positive confession. Speak life over him and trust God for his soul.

Best of luck.

_________________________
Not Perfect, just forgiven

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#175277 - 08/23/07 12:18 PM Re: Question for Christian Survivors [Re: pietie]
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
Thanks for the comments and support. I'd just like to say that I don't blame God for what happened to me - not at all. I blame the abuser entirely and exclusively. Period. I'm pretty sure of all this. It feels right and it works for me.

I don't see the abuser as a representative of the church either, although that's how he presented himself to me back then. He was a monster using the church as a cover so he could find young boys to feast on.

And I know there have been many wonderful people in my life who have done so many things to help me, who have gone the "extra mile" for me. I really appreciate them and in my heart I believe they were sent to me by God.

So in light of all that I feel especially uncomfortable and confused when I look at my relationship with God and feel so "cut off". I know it's an issue from childhood abuse, but I don't know what to do about it. I hear suggestions and I think, fine, but those suggestions don't help me - they tell me a lot of "what" but without the "how".

I do know that one element crushing me is shame. I can protect myself from other people by denying them access to my information, if I feel I need to do that. I can even hold back from close friends, telling them, "Well, if I told you it would just be more grief and pain." But God already knows, and from what I hear he's not into forgetting things.

It's not that I'm ashamed that these things happened to me - I know none of them is my fault. But the abuser was into humiliation to the max, and I was never ever safe in church or on any church-related activity, whether Scouts, church youth choir, confirmation classes, whatever. I don't feel I'm responsible, but it's just so shameful that God knows about all those things.

Or at least that's where I am right now. I feel confident I will get past this and I don't mind talking about it, but, as usual, when you're still in it up to the eyes it sucks pretty bad.

Much love,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

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#175316 - 08/23/07 02:28 PM Re: Question for Christian Survivors [Re: shadowkid]
usmc97 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 08/02/05
Posts: 437
Loc: Colorado
I still have a very hard time with my faith and trusting God. I seem to have a more limited understanding of Him and His sacrifice for me. I feel as though I don't know grace, being protected and very little of love. After all that was done to me and then it being topped off by being molested by a priest really screws up the relationship I want with Him. I don't think I'll truly trust Him until I meet Him and I believe He understands the hurt and confusion that has been put upon me. I had a hard road to learn to trust my friends and they weren't even involved back then. It got to a conversation with one of my friends who told me how much God hated how I was getting hurt but as with when Christ was on the cross, He did not stop the will of men... my friend told me that it had to of hurt God to know what was happening to one of his children, maybe so much that He had to turn away as with Christ. It's really my only way I can relate to Jesus. I do not get having my sins forgiven because of not knowing what I did wrong to have this life. The fall of man is just an excuse to me. I do not get His suffering because it wasn't what I had to endure, just being honest here. I believe God will know your husband wether or not he is "saved" here on earth. If you read into where He talks about leaving the 99 to find the one lost sheep(Matt 18:10-14), He went out to get him and take him home. I don't believe that He would hold the torment of what has happened to us against us, I can say for myself that this life is hell and it's a lonely burden. He is the way but some of us have been so crippled that He will pick us up and carry us home. I was saved in 2001 but there is always going to be confusion for me, I trust that God has shown me His heart for the hurt... His heart for me, His heart for us. It's not about trying to say this life has to be fair, but God is just. Well that's what I have to say.

_________________________
Semper Fi

The statistics? 1 in 4, 1 in 6?
...then there's me the imaginary number

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#175380 - 08/23/07 08:35 PM Re: Question for Christian Survivors [Re: shadowkid]
MarkK Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/02/07
Posts: 2503
Loc: Denver, CO
Originally Posted By: shadowkid
guys it sounds great but where is the part that says god protects the little children ?i know its in that book somewhere.

I know of no place in the Bible where it says God protects little children, if by that we mean God will not let any harm ever befall a child.


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#175382 - 08/23/07 08:40 PM Re: Question for Christian Survivors [Re: MarkK]
Still Offline
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MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/16/07
Posts: 6571
Loc: Never Sugar Mountain
Evil happens

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#175563 - 08/24/07 10:25 AM Re: Question for Christian Survivors [Re: Still]
bp83 Offline
Member

Registered: 06/29/06
Posts: 111
Loc: Arkansas
Larry, boy can I relate. I love God, and have had many wonderful experiences in church, and out. I believe in speaking in tongues...and I have done it many times before (now you all think I'm crazy!) It is a wonderful experience...but I still feel ostracized from God. I have an almost religious phobia...I feel I simply cannot trust God with so much confusion in my mind and in the world. But, I cannot deny his presence in my life, or His love, although I'm confused to the point of insanity of where to go to feel differently about Him. It just feels like I can't open up and let Him in...I can't be vulnerable to the point of full submission. I have OCD too, so, that doesn't help with confusion!

_________________________
-
Scott

"Life is for living, we all know, and I don't want to live it alone..."-Chris Martin

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#175576 - 08/24/07 11:15 AM Re: Question for Christian Survivors [Re: shadowkid]
nicky Offline
Guest

Registered: 08/24/07
Posts: 261
i like to think im a good person
and i pray for forgivness all the time for hurting poeple i love because of how i feel
its a sad life somtimes
so you have to keep beliving that evrything will work out
i have to tell myself all the time


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#175824 - 08/25/07 06:51 PM Re: Question for Christian Survivors [Re: bp83]
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
I have really benefited from this thread and BH, I hope you don't feel it has been hijacked or diverted. I bet a lot of these same feelings would ring true for your husband.

I also want to thank everyone who PMed me with ideas and support. That really means a lot to me and has helped me enormously. I am so grateful for your care and time.

Having thought about this stuff a lot this past week I think I can see what the problem is. Like I said earlier on this thread, I feel ashamed that God knows all those things the abuser did to me or made me do in our church and Scout cabin. He will always know. It's like those terrible things are on eternal instant replay: "Oh yeah, here's the time Larry...."

But there is more, and I think this is the central problem Little Larry has. For him those shameful things are all still in the present, and he wonders whether God blames him for them, like the abuser said. Of course you're "in on it" if you have orgasms in the pastor's study, for example.

So long as Little Larry stays disconnected from God he doesn't have to face the possibility that God hates him. That's something to worry about some time in the future. But if he reaches out to God and is rejected, like he fears he will be, then he will know for sure.

This doesn't feel like an "It's not your fault" issue; I've been pretty comfortable with that for a long time now. It's something else - very deep, very old, and very emotional - and I don't know how to describe it. And Little Larry is NOT happy that I'm even talking about this. The closest thing I can come up with is a question: What could be worse for a 10-year-old boy than to fear that the reason his prayers passed unanswered is that God hates him?

Okay, there it is - I said it. I know it's not true, but there we are.

Much love,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

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#175966 - 08/26/07 08:56 AM Re: Question for Christian Survivors [Re: roadrunner]
John Oarc Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/10/06
Posts: 633
Loc: Louisiana
Larry, I too know that shame before God. How could he love someone like me, with all the things that I have done. You are not alone my friend.

I was nine when it occurred to me. If I get mixed up in the shame I just look at my nine year old daughter or any nine or ten year old child and it becomes clear. I was only nine, if I enjoyed it or not I was just a child. If my daughter came to me as you come to God, as his child, if she said she was molested and enjoyed it or was a part of it I would only feel terrible that she was subjected to the perversion of an adult, I would cry for what she thought was enjoyment. At ten you don't know love in regards to sex; which is the way sex is meant to be ejoyed. Curiousity, and experimentation is one thing but an adults involvment is total manipulation and God does not hold that against you, you have nothing to be ashamed about. Even as an adult today, he forgives you for everything you have done as an adult. There is nothing to forgive when you were ten, you were not at the age of accountability and you did nothing wrong. Satan wants you to stay disconnected and he is using the one thing that is so far from being true, he is the father of lies.

I tried to PM you but it would not go through, is anyone else having trouble with the PM?

I wanted to see if I could get a sneek peek of the Review, if not don't worry I can wait for it.

I love you, God loves you,

_________________________
Whatever It Takes, God


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#175975 - 08/26/07 09:40 AM Re: Question for Christian Survivors [Re: John Oarc]
John Oarc Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/10/06
Posts: 633
Loc: Louisiana
Larry, I am going to church now and you are going to be on my mind most of the time there. I get chill bumps thinking about your freedom, It should not be kept from anyone. In that I will pray for everyone ever victimized by an adult in any way.

Love all of you,

_________________________
Whatever It Takes, God


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#176417 - 08/27/07 11:12 PM Re: Question for Christian Survivors [Re: John Oarc]
Brokenhearted Offline
Member

Registered: 08/07/06
Posts: 644
Loc: TX
I wish the best for all you guys. I am sure shame plays a huge part, maybe the biggest part, of blocking you from a relationship w/ your creator. I remember somewhere it says that there is "nothing new under the sun" to God; He has seen it ALL, so He wouldn't be shocked by anything.

Use your intellect and reasoning too - you KNOW you were an innocent child, you KNOW the adult abuser is the one God hates - it says it in my sig. line - He would not hate you, the innocent child he created to be cherished, not abused. He would not hate your body for responding, as He made it that way.

I just hate to see people separated from their God b/c of this abuse - it's robbed you all of enough already, but this is no small thing either. Jesus didn't suffer and die on the cross for us so we could be separated from Him. EVEN IF any of that abuse sin did belong to any of you innocent kids, He already died for those sins; all you have to do is accept that gift and ask Him to come to you and live in your hearts be near.

God is Love. It says that in the Bible - I've heard it a million times. All of you need to start loving yourselves again despite what was DONE TO you, and let your God love you as well. That's just my 2 cents. I'm not saying it's easy by any means and I cannot IMAGINE the struggles you guys are having, but from my perspective on the outside it's just another victory for the abusers, to keep you from accepting yourselves and accepting God's love for you. Remember Satan's main tool is deceit and he's deceiving you into believing "God would never love me," or "I'm such a terrible person".... Lies, all lies!!!

_________________________
Brokenhearted

It were better for him that a millstone were hanged around his neck, and he cast into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little ones.
Luke 17:2

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#176418 - 08/27/07 11:16 PM Re: Question for Christian Survivors [Re: Brokenhearted]
MarkK Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/02/07
Posts: 2503
Loc: Denver, CO
Originally Posted By: Brokenhearted
Use your intellect and reasoning too

Intellect has absolutely no impact.

At least - not for me.

Fortunately, faith doesn't take intellect, knowledge, understanding, or reasoning.

m


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#176430 - 08/28/07 12:46 AM Re: Question for Christian Survivors [Re: MarkK]
WalkingSouth Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/30/05
Posts: 16265
BH,

I'm not sure that SA had so much affect on me as my emotionally distant father and my sometime PMS riddled physically and emotionally abusive mother.

They say our concept of God is formed when we are young and comes from our relationship with our parents. Well, if that is true, and I believe it is, it's not to hard to surmise the struggle I've had.

My $0.02 worth.

John

_________________________
“Life’s journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting ‘Holy ____…! What a ride!’” ~Hunter S. Thompson

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#176454 - 08/28/07 02:38 AM Re: Question for Christian Survivors [Re: roadrunner]
pietie Offline
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Registered: 01/23/07
Posts: 326
Loc: South Africa
Originally Posted By: roadrunner

Having thought about this stuff a lot this past week I think I can see what the problem is. Like I said earlier on this thread, I feel ashamed that God knows all those things the abuser did to me or made me do in our church and Scout cabin. He will always know. It's like those terrible things are on eternal instant replay: "Oh yeah, here's the time Larry...."

But there is more, and I think this is the central problem Little Larry has. For him those shameful things are all still in the present, and he wonders whether God blames him for them, like the abuser said. Of course you're "in on it" if you have orgasms in the pastor's study, for example.



Larry. The bible says for as far as the east is from the west He removes our transgressions from us. Now this refers to our transgressions and we know we didn't do anything wrong. So how much more will he remove our past experiences from us? The bible says that He will not think of our inequities anymore. Again if we asked Him to forgive us it is as if it never happened. So when we go to God again about something that we were forgiven for He goes "What are you talking about? I don't remember that" because in His book it does not exist anymore.

And yes I know it is easier said than done. I still sometimes struggle with the same issue of trust as I still believe I did something to trigger my perp (yes I know but I will get there). So I still feel dirty. There are other things I did after that taht I can not say out loud, due to the abuse, but the shame is there. I however knows that God loves me regardless and that I need to forgive myself for those things, He has done it long ago.

God does not hate you or any of us. He loved us so much He gave His son in our place (that is not said to start another debate). Sometimes our prayers are answered, we just dont see it. Have you ever thought that perhaps this place is part of the prayer of that 10 year old?

_________________________
Not Perfect, just forgiven

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#176644 - 08/28/07 09:05 PM Re: Question for Christian Survivors [Re: pietie]
SECfanMIKE Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/15/07
Posts: 172
Loc: South Carolina
As well as casting our trangressions in the deepest sea (and I lived in Guam or Saipan for 10+ years...right near the "Marianas Trench" [the deepest crevice on the face of the earth]) --
the LORD also tells us that He will "...restore the seasons that the locusts have destroyed..."... meaning He can even heal the times of hurt and destruction in our lives.

_________________________
"...for God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world might be saved through Him..."

"...rejoice with those who rejoice, and weep with those who weep..."

"...for the Son of Man came to seek and to save what was lost..."

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#176649 - 08/28/07 09:15 PM Re: Question for Christian Survivors [Re: SECfanMIKE]
Frog Offline
Guest

Registered: 08/05/07
Posts: 291
Loc: Arizona

SECfanMIKE...

OK... ASK HIM TO PROVE IT IN MY LIFE...

I NEED PROOF....PROVERBS 11:27

_________________________
A Native American elder once described his own inner struggles in this manner: "Inside of me there are two dogs. One of the dogs is mean and evil. The other dog is good. The mean dog fights the good dog all the time." When asked which dog wins, he reflected for a moment, "The one I feed the most."

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#176650 - 08/28/07 09:15 PM Re: Question for Christian Survivors [Re: pietie]
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
Tjaart,

Originally Posted By: pietie
Have you ever thought that perhaps this place is part of the prayer of that 10 year old?


I have indeed! A big part. I don't believe in coincidences. \:\) I have been blessed by the caring and intervention of so many good people, and many of them are right here. I see all of them as somehow acting as part of whatever God has in mind, even if they themselves would not see it that way.

Much love,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

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#176672 - 08/28/07 10:53 PM Re: Question for Christian Survivors [Re: roadrunner]
Brokenhearted Offline
Member

Registered: 08/07/06
Posts: 644
Loc: TX
Can any of you imagine allowing your child to be beaten and tortured and killed b/c you want to save someone else? I don't want to start another debate either but I just can't get over that one.....I love my child w/ everything I have and so if God loves us THAT much, then that's pretty darn incredible.

_________________________
Brokenhearted

It were better for him that a millstone were hanged around his neck, and he cast into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little ones.
Luke 17:2

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#176714 - 08/29/07 01:46 AM Re: Question for Christian Survivors [Re: Brokenhearted]
shadowkid Offline
WARNING from ModTeam, September 2013: user "Shadowkid" was exposed as a hoaxer. His entire online persona and stories of sexual abuse were fiction. We encourage you not to become emotionally concerned by anything you see in any of his posts. Thank you
Member
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Registered: 11/18/05
Posts: 2437
i cant imagine saying that every chld is gods child and letting thousands of them be tortured and killed ,TELL ME THIS! if god gave up his only son then how can we all be gods children?and giving up his only son might mean a liitle more if that stopped the hurting ,what good was it for jesus to die? for my sins? who was spared pain cause jesus died? and if i suffer enough will i be like jesus? i dont think jesus died so i can go to heaven ,if there is such a place?i earned my way in . that god loves me enough to let me suffer is not a comforting thought to me. i prayed as an 11 year old ,but i dont think finding help 11 years later is a sign of devine intervention .

_________________________
its not hard to fall
when you float like a cannonball - damien rice

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#177014 - 08/29/07 08:32 PM Re: Question for Christian Survivors [Re: shadowkid]
emptydreamer Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/19/07
Posts: 276
Loc: Midwest USA
I have to echo Larry here, and I know it is not the popular opinion, but it is the reality I face.

I am however glad, that those who feel otherwise find some comfort in your beliefs. That is the most important part.

Best wishes and warmest regards,
Scott

_________________________
I'm here for a reason. Failure is not an option.

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#177055 - 08/29/07 09:56 PM Re: Question for Christian Survivors [Re: emptydreamer]
Mark Antony Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 01/03/07
Posts: 34
Loc: Michigan

Shadow Kid
Is it possible that you are blaming the wrong being here? Is it possible that the one who caused your suffering was not GOD, but the king of lies, perhaps Satan?
So if it is possible that GOD did not cause your suffering why is it not possible for it to be a devine intervention that you have begun healing?
There is no promise of an easy life in christianity. In fact the promise is that we will have trouble in out life and GOD will see us through. You are still here so you must have survived. Sounds to me like what was promised.

Mark


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#177056 - 08/29/07 10:03 PM Re: Question for Christian Survivors [Re: Mark Antony]
Mark Antony Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 01/03/07
Posts: 34
Loc: Michigan
To address how we can all be GOD's children, there is this thing that even humans use. It is called adoption. Yes we have been adopted by GOD. I belive this is discussed in the books of Corinthians, Romans, and Galatians.

Mark


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#177060 - 08/29/07 10:12 PM Re: Question for Christian Survivors [Re: Mark Antony]
Mark Antony Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 01/03/07
Posts: 34
Loc: Michigan
To address the issue of what good did it do for Jesus to die for me(my sin). What this accomplished is that your soul will not suffer death (eternal separation from God). Jesus' death on the cross was not to relive your pain in this world but to get you to heaven where there will be no pain or suffering. There is no way to EARN heaven. We are saved by Grace through Faith and Works. Faith and Works are not able to be separated,because one demonstrates the other. This is discussed in detail in the book of James.

Mark


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#177061 - 08/29/07 10:15 PM Re: Question for Christian Survivors [Re: Mark Antony]
Mark Antony Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 01/03/07
Posts: 34
Loc: Michigan
If I suffer enough will I be like Jesus? The answer is no because Jesus is fully human and fully devine. Therefore we can work toward being like Jesus but you can never become 100% like Jesus. Humans cannot become devine no matter how hard we try.

Mark


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#177075 - 08/29/07 11:34 PM Re: Question for Christian Survivors [Re: Mark Antony]
savemyfam Offline
Guest

Registered: 07/17/07
Posts: 144
Loc: Chicago
Originally Posted By: Mark Antony

Is it possible that you are blaming the wrong being here? Is it possible that the one who caused your suffering was not GOD, but the king of lies, perhaps Satan?
So if it is possible that GOD did not cause your suffering why is it not possible for it to be a devine intervention that you have begun healing?
There is no promise of an easy life in christianity. In fact the promise is that we will have trouble in out life and GOD will see us through.



Beautifully put!!! Absolute words of wisdom!!

_________________________
God has a plan for me, I trust in God's plan.

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#177200 - 08/30/07 02:47 PM Re: Question for Christian Survivors [Re: shadowkid]
SECfanMIKE Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/15/07
Posts: 172
Loc: South Carolina

For each of us here at MALE SURVIVOR, our stories may be very different, but -- PRAISE GOD! -- His story is always the same!!Here's a condensed view of where I'm coming from for folks I haven't met yet. In 2nd grade, my parents separated. My mother took my brother & me to live near her parents in Washington, DC. During that time, my mother's uncle molested me for about 1 1/2 years. My mother knowingly allowed this abuse to go on because she was afraid that if she confronted him she might be cut off from her family's money. My grand-uncle played on my deep needs for acceptance & affection; very emotionally intimate.

My grand-uncle used my deep need for affection to manipulate me. I vividly remember times getting out of the shower with him & laying on his white tiger rug or bed. He performed oral sex on me, sodomized me, forced me to perform oral sex on him. He may have forced my younger brother & me to engage each other sexually (a but fuzzy on that). He was never violent. Recognizing my emotional vulnerability, he was emotionally intimate: cuddled me, held me, snuggled me, lavished me with affection.

From the time my mother sent my brother and me back to live with my Dad -- because she said that I was "...turning into a queer..." -- (an 8 year old!); my Dad and brother were extremely cruel, verbally and physically abusive. From the time my younger brother Chris and I were toddlers, my Dad had always hated me because I wasn't the tall, aggressive, athletic son that my younger brother was. After returning from 1 1/2 years of being molested while in Washington, DC - my Dad hated me more than ever and had no idea what I had gone through, much less what to do with me. He AND my younger brother would sit at the dinner table and call me "...you goddam faggot...". My Dad would frequently say; "All those damn queers should be rounded up, taken to a public square and shot!"

Predictably, at this point I was unsure about who I was; and I had been suddenly taken away from the only affection I had ever known. As I began to make friends in my new neighborhood and school; without even understanding what I was looking for, I began seeking that acceptance and affection from other boys my age, and a few who were several years older. None of this searching ever lead to sexual encounters; but as a 9 year old my best friend Owen and I became extremely close -- often going to his house after school (and if his mother ad sister weren't home) we progressed to embracing one another, kissing, undressing each other (we had to get out of our Catholic school uniforms, anyway), and even exploring each other's bodies with our hands. I felt so loved and so fulfilled with Owen...and then had to face the horrors of going home to my Dad for more verbal & physical abuse. It was very confusing.

Having that kind of satisfying physical and emotional intimacy with one of my peers stopped at the end of 5th grade when my Dad remarried and moved us across town. I still never consciously understood why I was so attracted to other boys...whether it was at SCOUT camp, in school, or neighborhood peers. I used to get the tar beat out of me almost everyday, because it seemed that other guys had a much better idea than I did of why I might be staring at them in a longing way. That continued through high school -- where my best friend, "Pap" (who was an All-State soccer & hockey player) convinced me to volunteer to become the student trainer / equipment manager for our soccer, basketball, and baseball teams. Pretty dangerous environment for a guy who's confused about why he's attracted to other guys -- being in a locker room with athletes taking showers.

I enlisted in the NAVY. After boot camp and basic Hospital Corps school, I was sent to Operating Room Technician school in Oakland, CA. I soon learned that there is a huge gay population in the military medical community -- far out numbering the "straight" people (at least in a place like Oakland - being just across the Bay Bridge from San Francisco). I quickly became best friends with an upperclassman who was from Boston. Scott was openly gay (as were at least half of the staff and students in the operating room); and he sort of took me under his wing...exposing me to things that I had never even imagined existed. My Dad had caused me to be so homophobic that I was even afraid to appreciate art - say looking at a sculpture like Michelangelo's "David" - but Scott's friendship showed me how to appreciate people for who they are instead of fearing or hating them because of unfair stereotypes. I have to admit that he did turn me on to smoking marijuana and some experimenting with other recreational chemicals; but never to the extent of dependence. We mostly had a lot of fun hanging out together.

In early 1981, while I was again working in the Operating Room at the NAVY hospital in Guam; a good friend of mine who I had partied with for years suddenly "found Jesus". I thought that Anita was just burned out from too much acid or cocaine; but unknown to me, she had asked members of her ladies Bible study group to pray for me. The leader, Jean (from Rhode Island), asked for prayer requests; so Anita asked them to pray that I'd come to an evangelistic outreach that they hosted once a month. Jean asked Anita; "Why don't we pray for Mike's salvation?" and Anita said; "Oh no, that would be way too much!". Fortunately for me, these gals (and a guys' Bible study group that Jean's husband Paul led) began to pray for my salvation. Jean's husband Paul befriended me - we often played racquetball, softball, basketball, etc. I got involved in his Bible study group - and in August of '81 the LORD really invaded my life. I was already in the habit of having a daily "quiet time", plus memorizing Scripture and witnessing -- but one morning while using "Our Daily Bread" as a devotional guide, I was confronted by the Holy Spirit. There was an example of someone asking Jesus into the "house" of their life (like in Revelation 3.20); but then trying to lock Him up in their front hall closet (not giving Him free reign over the whole house). I was challenged to be sure that I had actually received Christ as my Savior... so I made absolutely sure right then and there. I experienced the new life that unknowingly I'd always longed for - AND - I finally met the One who loved as I'd always needed to be loved. I threw myself into Bible study, prayer and got involved in as many ministries as the LORD, church, and Christian Serviceman's Center allowed me to participate in. I was incredibly blessed that the LORD had 2 very spiritually mature, loving "disciplers" take me under their wing and train me.

I NEVER AGAIN HAD ANY DESIRE FOR ANOTHER GUY! The LORD also instantly freed me from marijuana and other drugs.

In '84 I left Guam and the NAVY, to come to Columbia, SC to attend Columbia Bible College. Before I even enrolled, the LORD brought me together with the woman who would change my life forever - my Rosie! By October my Sweetie and I were engaged, and I decided to leave school and get a real job. We've been happily married for 22+ years now (despite countless struggles through my unemployment, depression, numerous moves literally all over the world, and my disabling Irritable Bowel Syndrome).

It was about 6-7 years ago (when Rosie, our son Nathan, and I were living in Guam) that I began recovering the memories of my grand-uncle's abusing me. Some of the results have been me beginning to get an understanding of my chronic depression, inability to trust people, my tendency to isolate myself, insomnia, self-esteem problems, why I've always been passive in relationships, & even why I've suffered from chronic severe Irritable Bowel Syndrome (clinically linked to CSA). I've also gained insight on the types of relationships that I tried to form.

Well, I'm just praising God for Him bringing me in contact with some many other wonderful Christian brothers here on the SURVIVORS website. We've suffered through similar experiences - and now the LORD has called us to a common ministry of encouragement and evangelization with others who've suffered as we have. We're empowered to "comfort others with the comfort which we ourselves have received from God".
_________________________
John 3.17 -- "...For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world might be saved through Him...".

BROKENHEARTED - I hope the LORD will use this to encourage you. If you'd like to share it with your husband, please feel free. I'd be happy to answer any questions if he has some. My Sweetie and I will be praying for y'all.

Your Brother In Christ - Mike <><

_________________________
"...for God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world might be saved through Him..."

"...rejoice with those who rejoice, and weep with those who weep..."

"...for the Son of Man came to seek and to save what was lost..."

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#177204 - 08/30/07 03:24 PM Re: Question for Christian Survivors [Re: SECfanMIKE]
shadowkid Offline
WARNING from ModTeam, September 2013: user "Shadowkid" was exposed as a hoaxer. His entire online persona and stories of sexual abuse were fiction. We encourage you not to become emotionally concerned by anything you see in any of his posts. Thank you
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/18/05
Posts: 2437
k now say it a way i can understand .was there some point in your life where something happend that made you say yes i believe? if so i havnt had mine yet.

_________________________
its not hard to fall
when you float like a cannonball - damien rice

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#177213 - 08/30/07 04:21 PM Re: Question for Christian Survivors [Re: shadowkid]
shadowkid Offline
WARNING from ModTeam, September 2013: user "Shadowkid" was exposed as a hoaxer. His entire online persona and stories of sexual abuse were fiction. We encourage you not to become emotionally concerned by anything you see in any of his posts. Thank you
Member
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Registered: 11/18/05
Posts: 2437
guys you say im blammimg god ?how can that be ?i dont believe in god remember?im not blamming god for my abuse ,its my perp no doubt ,BUT i do blame the people that filled my head with bullshit ,about god . that made me put my safety in gods hands and strangly enough they said lots of the same things i see in this post. if i believed or not couldnt save me ,but i damn sure would not have gone to sleep everynight knowing tomorrow god would save me ,god was the big disappointment for me not the people who hurt me.

_________________________
its not hard to fall
when you float like a cannonball - damien rice

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#177215 - 08/30/07 04:29 PM Re: Question for Christian Survivors [Re: shadowkid]
buzz_key Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/31/07
Posts: 635
Loc: USA
hi adam...have missed talking with you man.
i don't know about Mike, but for me it wasn't so much one thing happening that made me say yes, i believe. There was a message in my head and it was tied to my heart...i know that sounds corny, but bear with me...i was at a PromiseKeepers event and had listened to a number of the speakers and NOTHING - but then this one presenter got up there and it was his talk...he was talking about how often people think they aren't worthy of God saving, they aren't fixed first, you have to be at a certain point of good to be accepted. He said that that was backwards...God WANTS us when we are at our worst, feeling our worst, whatever that is..HE WANTS TO HELP US OUT OF IT...

while this guy is talking there is a whisper in my head going "that makes sense, a loving Father would do that for His kids, not tell them he'll love them AFTER they are better" and I had a feeling in my heart ( I know it now as being convicted by God's Holy Spirit ...in other words, the third part of God, the Holy Spirit was in me, effecting my heart) I knew...there is no other way i can describe it..I just KNEW I was hearing the truth and I didn't justneed Jesus to be my Savior...I WANTED Him to save me..

you know adam...for me...i came to the realization one day that yes, i was abused by my dad for 13 years, beaten, humiliated ...but those aren't the reasons I needed God...that is why my dad needed God...
I needed God for my own sins...outside of the abuse, for whatever tose sins were. And it has taken God 5 years of slowly working me to a point where I was ready to begin dealing with the abuse of my childhood. And there are specific things that have happened that I can say "God's hands were in this" that happened leading me to startig therapy and facing my abuse.

Faith (blind trust) is the hardest thing for anyone to do...let alone us who were abused.

I would like to suggest a couple of books if that's okay that really helped me at first. They are by a guy named Lee Strobel. he was an atheist attorney who desicided to put all the evidence out there as though it were a trial...he found out the opposite of what he expected. the books are called "The Case for Christ", and "The Case for Faith", there is also "The Case for a Creator" - they are intelligently and objectively done, the evidence for the claims are laid out ther and you decide as though you were a juror.

just my opinion and how things happened for me.

take care buddy


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#177220 - 08/30/07 05:01 PM Re: Question for Christian Survivors [Re: shadowkid]
MarkK Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/02/07
Posts: 2503
Loc: Denver, CO
hey guy,

Originally Posted By: shadowkid
guys you say im blammimg god ?how can that be ?i dont believe in god remember?im not blamming god for my abuse ,its my perp no doubt ,BUT i do blame the people that filled my head with bullshit ,about god .

myself, i would say that's exactly where that part of the blame lies - with the people who fed you lies about God miraculously saving the little children He loves. what ELSE is a child in SA going to believe, except God doesn't even love them.

i was raised to believe God was our strength to go THRU these things - not be rescued from them. even though, i think i kinda appreciate where you're coming from.

all i can tell you is God has always loved us - and always will. as impossible as that may be to get wrapped in our heads with all the CSA trash - i believe it to be the truth. i guess maybe that's why they call it faith...

lastly,
Originally Posted By: shadowkid
god was the big disappointment for me not the people who hurt me.
i completly understand a child seeing God as a major hurt and disappointment, when they had heard things not completely correct ... i hope someday you will be able to separate their lies from the true God...

i am honored to know you.

M



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#177247 - 08/30/07 06:33 PM Re: Question for Christian Survivors [Re: MarkK]
shadowkid Offline
WARNING from ModTeam, September 2013: user "Shadowkid" was exposed as a hoaxer. His entire online persona and stories of sexual abuse were fiction. We encourage you not to become emotionally concerned by anything you see in any of his posts. Thank you
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/18/05
Posts: 2437
mark and buzz yu really do get it dont you?the faith thing i mean? this one of thev first times anybody has talked with me about god without thiinking either im blasting their faith or i am just somebody to feel sorry for cause im going to hell,i believe in your faith ,because even if i get pissy about it you still are trying to help me ,not convert me or convince me just help me. thanks k? i do want what you have you know?i wanna believe ,its just right now reality is too strong to deny , adam

_________________________
its not hard to fall
when you float like a cannonball - damien rice

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#177253 - 08/30/07 06:40 PM Re: Question for Christian Survivors [Re: shadowkid]
MarkK Offline
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Adam,

the tears i'm crying right now in incredible joy.
Originally Posted By: shadowkid
i do want what you have you know?i wanna believe ,its just right now reality is too strong to deny
i truly believe God will not let someone go without finding Him. if you want to know the truth, i am positive that someday He will reveal Himself to you, because He is the truth. i hope we're still in communication when He does - i want to be able to celebrate with you.

as for it being too strong (or too easy) to deny right now - believe it or not, i COMPLETELY get that one - and i was raised knowing God.

as for "converting or convincing" - the Bible tells me that's God's job, not mine. again, i am convinced His Spirit will reveal Him to you at some point.

as much as i can love someone i've never met - i DO love you, Adam. you are an incredibly open and honest person, and i'm learning to trust you. you make me smile.

M

ps - the Bible tells me that faith is a gift of God - it comes from hearing His word.


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#177385 - 08/31/07 11:30 AM Re: Question for Christian Survivors [Re: MarkK]
buzz_key Offline
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Adam,
Man...you really get to me...in a good way! i believe that i am to LOVE..Jesus said that to love one another is THE greatest commandment from God. That people will know us (true believers) by our LOVE.

Just like Mark said, convicting us of our sins is God's job, my job is to live my life and let THAT be the testimony to God's saving power...THAT is what tells the story...how a person lives.

AND...just like Mark...I LOVE you Adam...I have a sincere love for you. I pray for you daily, for peace, strength, and truth.
You are valued very highly by many people here...that's not just lip service...your posts are Adam, truthful...and they help so many people...me included...i ALWAYS leave the Healing Circle each Sunday with a perspective you have offered and it helps me.

This isn't about my timing, or anyone elses timing...this whole thing is about Adam's timing...and God does know that!

I love you man!


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#177528 - 08/31/07 09:55 PM Re: Question for Christian Survivors [Re: shadowkid]
roadrunner Offline
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Adam,

Originally Posted By: shadowkid
k now say it a way i can understand .was there some point in your life where something happend that made you say yes i believe? if so i havnt had mine yet.


I don't know if this will help you - kind of like the blind leading the blind, yeah? But I think one thing that helps me is the very fact that I hurt so bad for the emptiness I feel inside me as a result of my inability to see how God has any interest in me or recognize any way to connect with him.

If God were all a myth, then why am I hurting for that nothingness, and what part of me is hurting? What part has needs that can be satisfied from nothing?

That part of me is my soul, the part that also makes me a caring compassionate person and allows me to find joy in the midst of pain and seek peace in simple truths. And I think the aching comes from my soul wanting back something real that that it once had, years ago, before...

That's all I can do with this for the moment. But it's something I guess.

Much love,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

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#177529 - 08/31/07 10:02 PM Re: Question for Christian Survivors [Re: roadrunner]
MarkK Offline
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Bible says we were created for Him.
Would make sense without Him we would feel a loss.

.. at least to me ..

M


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#177530 - 08/31/07 10:18 PM Re: Question for Christian Survivors [Re: MarkK]
shadowkid Offline
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thanks again guys, adam



Edited by shadowkid (08/31/07 10:19 PM)
_________________________
its not hard to fall
when you float like a cannonball - damien rice

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#177571 - 09/01/07 06:39 AM Re: Question for Christian Survivors [Re: shadowkid]
BJK Offline
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.



Edited by BJK (09/01/07 09:32 AM)
_________________________
Revenge is nothing more than another way of perpetuating abuse.

What the world needs now
Is some new words of wisdom
Like la la la la la la la la la.
-David Lowery

Having a friend who will keep a secret for you is worthless compared to a friend who won't keep a secret from you.

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#177593 - 09/01/07 09:29 AM Re: Question for Christian Survivors [Re: BJK]
buzz_key Offline
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Bryan,

With all due respect...

You ARE debating! why say you're not when yor whole post is a debate to what has been written before? Regardless...

You have missed the WHOLE point of this, we aren't talking about "religion"...religion is a manmade method to worshipp something, anything...

This is about a faith in knowing the Creator of the universe is alive and desiring a personal relationship with each one of us.

Some of your statements are what has given Christianity a bad name...."God can be whatever you want him to be"? - people defining God for themselves...
FLAT OUT...God is God...He is what He is...not what i WANT Him to be...
So...I define what I WANT Him to be? Then why do I even need Him, that logic says I don't. And if I don't need Him, then I can just fix all of my issues myself. Hmmmm...have a done a crappy job of that so far.
I define Him?...then He isn't God is HE? I am at that point. You can read the Bible through a million times and still not understand a word of it...number of reads does not imply understanding. Do you research the context and words back to their original languages to understand the true meaning of the writer?

So you are an "an analytical person who requires proof"? Then why not read Lee Strobel's "A Case for Christ"? He is a lawyer who made the same claims you do...he was an atheist with a capital "A"...so he put his money where his mouth is and DID the research....compiled the "evidence" and let the chips fall where they may...well....read the book, you might be surprised at what you find.

i hope i'm not coming off rude here, cause i sure don't want to...just participating in the thread.





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#177597 - 09/01/07 09:43 AM Re: Question for Christian Survivors [Re: buzz_key]
BJK Offline
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I struck my last post.

If God doesn't accept who I am, and the immense amount of personal struggle I've been through to become who I am, then he is not only evil to me...he is the bane of all evils.

I'm not an atheist. I'm 100% agnostic, and I refuse to budge either way without concrete proof. If God can't accept that, then I guess I'm going to hell.

Bryan

_________________________
Revenge is nothing more than another way of perpetuating abuse.

What the world needs now
Is some new words of wisdom
Like la la la la la la la la la.
-David Lowery

Having a friend who will keep a secret for you is worthless compared to a friend who won't keep a secret from you.

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#177620 - 09/01/07 12:13 PM Re: Question for Christian Survivors [Re: buzz_key]
BJK Offline
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Quote:
Some of your statements are what has given Christianity a bad name....


But I wasn't even talking about Christianity. I was talking about faith. I struck my comments because I realized that the person I was addressing might be confused by them, but nowhere in that post did I make a single comment about Christ or Christianity. I was simply offering the suggestion of exploring all possible avenues of faith instead of remaining convinced that the answers he seeks all lay down a single path.

Looking back, I wish I would have edited teh comments instead of striking them, but I drove to work this morning freaking out that someone might take them the wrong way. I removed them, then read your post, then responded.

Originally Posted By: buzz_key

So...I define what I WANT Him to be? Then why do I even need Him, that logic says I don't. And if I don't need Him, then I can just fix all of my issues myself. Hmmmm...have a done a crappy job of that so far.


Oh, but you have defined your own faith. You've rejcted Islam. You've rejected Buddhism. You've even rejected differing viewpoints within the Christian community that, even within themselves, cannot agree on a common belief system. You've rejected a number of differing faiths to arrive at your own. There is nothing wrong with that, but it is my belief that there is something inherintly wrong with denying other people that opportunity.

Since God refuses to present Himself to us and tell us, "here is what I want you to believe", then what other choice do we have than to mold our own faiths?

Quote:
So you are an "an analytical person who requires proof"? Then why not read Lee Strobel's "A Case for Christ"? He is a lawyer who made the same claims you do...he was an atheist with a capital "A"...so he put his money where his mouth is and DID the research....compiled the "evidence" and let the chips fall where they may...well....read the book, you might be surprised at what you find.


I have, and in doing so, I have only cemented my own belief system:

One way or another, it is impossible to know.

_________________________
Revenge is nothing more than another way of perpetuating abuse.

What the world needs now
Is some new words of wisdom
Like la la la la la la la la la.
-David Lowery

Having a friend who will keep a secret for you is worthless compared to a friend who won't keep a secret from you.

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#177624 - 09/01/07 12:27 PM Re: Question for Christian Survivors [Re: BJK]
MarkK Offline
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Originally Posted By: BJK
Since God refuses to present Himself to us and tell us, "here is what I want you to believe", then what other choice do we have than to mold our own faiths?

Will all respect - He did. He presented Himself to us in the form of His holy Son. In Christ, He showed us the Father, and told us what He expected of us.

Now, it can easily be argumented those statements are from my faith, which they are. And I accept the Bible's definition of faith being "Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen." [Hebrews 11:1]

Personally, I see no problem with debate. I haven't seen anyone go to pure "argument" - which in my opinion is when you stop listening to each other. I love this place (and this thread) because we have been listening to each other. Or I thought so.

As far as "defining our own faith" or rejecting other belief systems - I go by what I understand the Bible to say. Could I be wrong - most definitely. So you won't find me saying a lot about other religions because I'm not an expert. I'm just a guy who's convinced he's a sinner and lost without God and has the hope for an eternal life with his creator. If you ask me my opinion on things, I usually share it, if I trust the person I'm talking with. Another place my past has an affect on how I respond...

M


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#177692 - 09/01/07 07:32 PM Re: Question for Christian Survivors [Re: MarkK]
buzz_key Offline
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Shame on me...i took the bait and jumped into the fray...
i should know better...i did come off argumentative and i don't want to. you have every right to believe whatever you want...


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#177700 - 09/01/07 07:44 PM Re: Question for Christian Survivors [Re: MarkK]
shadowkid Offline
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instead of defining our faith maybe we should define what faith is? how you get it ,how you lose it ,to me say i have this friend and hes big and strong ,and he says to me adam please jump off the roof ,i promise i'll catch you , since i know he loves me ,i really dont wanna jump ,but i have faith that if he loves me he will catch me ,so i jump and he catches me ,we do this ten times ,now my faith is like a rock i wont hesitate to jump cause he always catches me ,this is how we get faith ,same situtation except this time i climb up and jump but he dont catch me , so i think aint doin that again ,but he tells me if i love him i'll do it and he promises he will catch me , this is a different kind of faith ,but i do love him so i climb up and jump ,nope he dont catch me this time either,people make all kinds of excuses for him and tell me all the great things he has done for other people ,tell me if i ask he will catch me ,now this faith is desperation ,but i wanna prove i have faith in him that i love him ,so climb up again about halfway to the ground is where you lose faith ,and when you hit the ground you decide for damn sure you aint ever gonna jump again and no amount of being told all you got to do is ask wil make you do it. not sure if this makes sense but there it is .

_________________________
its not hard to fall
when you float like a cannonball - damien rice

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#177702 - 09/01/07 07:52 PM Re: Question for Christian Survivors [Re: MarkK]
BJK Offline
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It takes an immense amount of faith in order to follow your heart in such matters. I respect and admire that. Obviously, I'm not a man of faith, but I am a man of conviction. I beleive the teachings of Christ were good teachings. I just don't believe that he was the Son of God.

In fact, I will go on record as saying that the choice I made to give up my desire to believe in God was the most fulfilling choice I have ever made. I guess I just came to the conclusion that I was tired of trying to please other people, and these days, I live for the sole purpose of trying to please myself. It just so happens that living by the morals that were dictated by Christ pleases me, and I believe that the most true judge of character there is lies in admitting to one's mistakes (sins) and pledging to do better in the future. Spiritually, I have a tremendous amount of fulfillment in my life from living by these rules.

But I believe Christ requires faith in order to ascend into heaven, and that is the one thing I cannot provide.

_________________________
Revenge is nothing more than another way of perpetuating abuse.

What the world needs now
Is some new words of wisdom
Like la la la la la la la la la.
-David Lowery

Having a friend who will keep a secret for you is worthless compared to a friend who won't keep a secret from you.

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#177703 - 09/01/07 07:52 PM Re: Question for Christian Survivors [Re: buzz_key]
BJK Offline
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buzz:

my post was guilty of the same thing, so I guess we're alike in a lot of ways.

Bryan

_________________________
Revenge is nothing more than another way of perpetuating abuse.

What the world needs now
Is some new words of wisdom
Like la la la la la la la la la.
-David Lowery

Having a friend who will keep a secret for you is worthless compared to a friend who won't keep a secret from you.

Top
#177705 - 09/01/07 07:56 PM Re: Question for Christian Survivors [Re: shadowkid]
healingpartner Offline
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a slight twist on that...to me faith is kinda like you climb so high you are above the clouds...you can't even see the friend. But you jump anyway. Along the way you may run into a few birds, get caught up in things, get a little windburn on the way down. But when you get near the ground, no matter where that may be, or how far it is from where you started. He is there to catch and comfort you.

don't know if that helps...I have been staying away from this thread, but this just came to me.

Lorie


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#177706 - 09/01/07 07:56 PM Re: Question for Christian Survivors [Re: shadowkid]
buzz_key Offline
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adam...it makes PERFECT sense. Can i ask if you are paralleling this story to your experience with God? or at least with the God I bleieve in?

If so, the first thing that strikes me is that God never has promised to keep anyone from being hurt...that is the major and defining difference between the two.

do you see what i'm saying? if we see God as always being and will always be, then we are talking eternity. If we believe that when we die we either go to heaven or hell for eternity...then this lif is but a blip on the radar screen of the whole picture....

I have said this before...but ithink God put this world into motion and is present but not interfering (saving us from the hurt that evil in the world propogates) because our relationship has to be one we desire...for the relationship not becauseHe saved us from pain or gave us this or that....

THEN...and this is the kicker to it all...when we die after this blip in time of a life...we WILL spend eternity with Him and HE DOES GUARANTEE US AT THAT TIME that there will be no more tears or pain...it is eternity that God is focusing on...

just my opinion...not trying to force it on anyone.


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#177709 - 09/01/07 08:09 PM Re: Question for Christian Survivors [Re: shadowkid]
BJK Offline
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every time I hit "submit", there is a new post to respond to.

Adam:

Your post was amazing.

About eight years ago, when I was heavy into the addictive stage of my life, I had a good friend who was a Lutheran minister. I actually attended church off and on to listen to his sermons. He would actually call me once in a while to tell me he was going to give a sermon on a particular day in response to some of the discussions we had.

When I asked him a question similar to this amazing analogy you just provided for the rest of us, his answer astounded me. I know what his response to you would be.

God would never ask you to jump off a roof for him, so it would be kind of silly to expect him to catch you every time you jump. In fact, God would give us alternatives to jumping off the roof. Sometimes, those alternatives are as plain as day. There are steps over to the right. Maybe there is a ladder. Sometimes, those alternatives are hidden. Maybe you have to jump to the next roof to find a trellace that will lead you to a balcony from where you could jump down onto a trampoline. And of course, some of these choices might be the wrong choices. We could trample someone else on the way to the fire escape, or we could push someone off the edge to have a cushion to land on.

The point is, God (allegedly) gave us free will in order to do whatever we want. Unfortunately, the people who hurt us also had this gift of free will. Those people used that gift in a way that would hurt us. The important thing is, if we always try make the righteous and just decisions, and if we always acknowledge our mistakes and try harder next time, God will be waiting for us with open arms when it is all over.

I'm a pure-blooded agnostic who is quite ignorant of God's will even though I have studied it at length. However, this is my interpretation of what was taught to me by a Lutheran minister, who I also deem to be a great man.



Edited by BJK (09/01/07 08:12 PM)
_________________________
Revenge is nothing more than another way of perpetuating abuse.

What the world needs now
Is some new words of wisdom
Like la la la la la la la la la.
-David Lowery

Having a friend who will keep a secret for you is worthless compared to a friend who won't keep a secret from you.

Top
#177715 - 09/01/07 08:27 PM Re: Question for Christian Survivors [Re: BJK]
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BJK

That analogy reminds me of a joke I once heard that had some wisdom in it.

A man was in a flood. The police came to his door and said sir you need to leave the flooding is getting severe. He said 'no, God will save me.' The water continued to rise. Soon a police boat came along. 'Sir, we need to move you out of here. All your neighbors have left.' The man replied 'No, God will save me.' A few hours later the man was forced to retreat to his roof. A police helicopter came by. 'Sir, this is your last chance. Please come with us.' The man replied, 'NO, God will save me.' The man drowned. When he got to heaven he asked God 'why didn't you save me? I had faith.' God said, "I sent the police, a boat and a helicopter...what more do you want?'

I think sometimes we need our faith to be more practical...that it isn't always so miraculous, but God uses people and circumstances to provide for us.

Not sure if this rambling makes sense. Hope it does


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#177718 - 09/01/07 08:39 PM Re: Question for Christian Survivors [Re: healingpartner]
shadowkid Offline
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but faith means not looking for the ladder ,not needing the ladder . not even asking if the ladder exists. heaven? i did what i had to to survive and if that keeps me out well i guess i can chalk it up to free will. heaven is growing up normal ,

_________________________
its not hard to fall
when you float like a cannonball - damien rice

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#177719 - 09/01/07 09:00 PM Re: Question for Christian Survivors [Re: shadowkid]
BJK Offline
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Adam,

I apologize for being blunt, but I think you are asking too much from God. He can't make your decisions for you, and unfortunately, He didn't make the decisions for the person(s) who hurt you either. He didn't cause your hurt, and He is not responsible for stopping it. It sucks to say, but your hurt was caused by the free will He bestowed upon all men. The responsibilities lie with the person(s) who hurt you. You've used your free will well. Unfortunately, most people don't.

I want to stray away from talking about faith here, because I'm kind of a hypocrate for preaching faith when I don't have any, nor do I desire any, myself.

You did what you had to do in order to survive. I see you here on this board with an insatiable desire to help others, and I have seen in some of your posts an insatiable desire to protect children. These are all products of free will, and it seems to me that you are constantly making the right decisions. These are YOUR choices. If I was God, I'd let you into heaven in a heartbeat.

But I'm obviously not God, so we are both stuck in the same dilemma. The book of James chapter 2 has a lot to say about how faith alone cannot get someone into heavan, and that faith must be accompanied by works in order for that to happen. I have to ask, does it say anywhere in the Bible that works alone can get one into heaven without being accompanied by faith?

I guess I refuse to believe that an all powerful God could be that petty.

Originally Posted By: shadowkid
heaven is growing up normal ,


I really can't argue with this. As much as I want to try to reassure you, this one sentence just rings a little too close to home. I can only hope that, if there is a God, he makes certain allowances for guys like us who have had to endure shit like this in our lives.

Bryan



Edited by BJK (09/01/07 09:05 PM)
_________________________
Revenge is nothing more than another way of perpetuating abuse.

What the world needs now
Is some new words of wisdom
Like la la la la la la la la la.
-David Lowery

Having a friend who will keep a secret for you is worthless compared to a friend who won't keep a secret from you.

Top
#177721 - 09/01/07 09:08 PM Re: Question for Christian Survivors [Re: shadowkid]
MarkK Offline
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Originally Posted By: shadowkid
but faith means not looking for the ladder ,not needing the ladder . not even asking if the ladder exists.

I don't think faith takes away my need for a "ladder" - and I certainly ask often enough.

Faith, at least to me, means accepting that even if I step out and there is no ladder - even if I should fall and hurt myself - I will trust my God.

M


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#177723 - 09/01/07 09:10 PM Re: Question for Christian Survivors [Re: healingpartner]
BJK Offline
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Lorie, it makes total sense. Obviously, I'm not a man of faith, but a person needs more than faith to survive. Faith doesn't grow crops. Faith doesn't bring water from the well. Faith doesn't feed the kids.

What does faith do?

I guess I don't know the answer to that.

Bryan

_________________________
Revenge is nothing more than another way of perpetuating abuse.

What the world needs now
Is some new words of wisdom
Like la la la la la la la la la.
-David Lowery

Having a friend who will keep a secret for you is worthless compared to a friend who won't keep a secret from you.

Top
#177733 - 09/01/07 10:27 PM Re: Question for Christian Survivors [Re: BJK]
shadowkid Offline
WARNING from ModTeam, September 2013: user "Shadowkid" was exposed as a hoaxer. His entire online persona and stories of sexual abuse were fiction. We encourage you not to become emotionally concerned by anything you see in any of his posts. Thank you
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Posts: 2437
keeps you jumpping off the roof

_________________________
its not hard to fall
when you float like a cannonball - damien rice

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#177736 - 09/01/07 10:53 PM Re: Question for Christian Survivors [Re: Still]
krayoss Offline
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Robbie



Edited by krayoss (04/08/08 12:22 PM)

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#177737 - 09/01/07 10:57 PM Re: Question for Christian Survivors [Re: shadowkid]
BJK Offline
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Originally Posted By: shadowkid
keeps you jumpping off the roof


I guess I need proof that there will be someone there to catch me before I take that leap.

Bryan

_________________________
Revenge is nothing more than another way of perpetuating abuse.

What the world needs now
Is some new words of wisdom
Like la la la la la la la la la.
-David Lowery

Having a friend who will keep a secret for you is worthless compared to a friend who won't keep a secret from you.

Top
#177738 - 09/01/07 11:13 PM Re: Question for Christian Survivors [Re: BJK]
MarkK Offline
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Originally Posted By: BJK
What does faith do?


It saves me
It gives me strength for the day
It gives me hope
It can supply great joy
It means peace in a nonpeaceful world

m


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#177739 - 09/01/07 11:31 PM Re: Question for Christian Survivors [Re: BJK]
WalkingSouth Offline
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Awesome discussion guys. All of you involved in this. I've read through the recent discussion with interest. Every one of you brings valid points, questions, and heart pleas to the table. Thanks for your candor and honesty. It was a good read and I've learned from it.

John

_________________________
“Life’s journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting ‘Holy ____…! What a ride!’” ~Hunter S. Thompson

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#355695 - 03/06/11 02:16 AM Re: Question for Christian Survivors [Re: Still]
looking2heal Offline
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ive only read a few so not sure if anyone has said but....TRIGGER WARNING...
everyone says God didnt let it happen.....God let Jesus go to the cross....
God let satan test Job....
where is it that it says that everythings going to be all great?
when reading the bible every single person....went thru their own hell....
im not going to stand here and blame God...but also not going to agree with God didnt let it happened....the bible says that God will not put you thru more then you can handle...
...IMHO....
that being said....i long for that which ppl talk about....that everything just change...that peace came and they understood and excepted ....
i do that which i dont want....
and i dont do what i want
i dont blame God....just want him to help me....
.
.
.
hope not off base , just how i see it



Edited by looking2heal (03/06/11 02:17 AM)
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taking the steps to healing inside

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#355760 - 03/07/11 12:21 AM Re: Question for Christian Survivors [Re: looking2heal]
pufferfish Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/26/08
Posts: 6875
Loc: USA
This is not an easy question. I have about a dozen books on this written by some really good Christian writers. This just underscores that a lot of us human beings wonder about this and even feel it deeply. Sorry I'm behind in my reading but this topic does need attention.

Allen


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#430874 - 04/11/13 11:33 AM Re: Question for Christian Survivors [Re: Brokenhearted]
Rj2660 Offline


Registered: 03/13/13
Posts: 22
Loc: Texas
God looks on the heart of a person first. I beleive that he knows us well and takes in to consideration, the things that we go though which reroute or affect his original design for our lives. God is not in a box and neither are we. In my particular situation, I suffered spiritual abuse in a dogmatic church environment after having been severely sexually abused. Through it all I held on to the fact that none of this was God's fault and never assigned that spiritual abuse to him. I recognized that this is a fallen world that we live in. Things will tend to go to the lowest form and denominator. It is God who pulls us up and out. Always remember that he looks at what is inside of us, not just outward appearance.

Please, never fail to pray and do not give up on what it can do. I have prayed for people for years and in almost every case have eventually seen them answered. There are also times when the answers come in ways that we just can't recognize because we are often looking for another answer from him.

In my situation holding to him has been crucial. Through All the abuse and 2 abductions, I have no personality disorders and live a well adjusted life, all things considered. I truly beleive that God can do this for anyone and is willing to as well. We have to partner with him. Part of being on this earth is that we have to take responsibility for ourselves, even after any kind of abuse.
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If someone throws trash on my lawn and drives away, it is mine to deal with. I make the decision whether to collect it or take responsibility for cleaning it up. We are the sum of our choices. For some, these were thrust upon us at an age when we were not qualified to take such resposibility. R.J.

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#432563 - 04/26/13 06:59 PM Re: Question for Christian Survivors [Re: Brokenhearted]
victor-victim Offline


Registered: 09/27/03
Posts: 3413
Loc: O Kanada
this may sound like preaching, but for me (decades of surviving SA) the only way i could put the "empty words" into practice, was through sincere daily PRAYER, BIBLE study, and deep HONEST conversations with GOD, myself, and people i considered to be true christians (NOT FAKE CHRISTIANS LIKE MY ABUSERS).

This was not easy and took many many years, but it works.

i have chosen to be blunt and up-front because i would rather be rejected for who i am, than accepted for what i am not.
this led me to the "REAL" christians. believe when I tell you... they are out there. KEEP SEARCHING, READING THE BIBLE, and PRAY EVERY DAY for wisdom and strength.

avoid drugs, porno, and sex with strangers. they only make the situation worse, in my personal experience. don't abandon hope if you fail or fall. repent and start over as many times as it takes. never quit, you are worth the effort.

hope this helps.
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Victor|Victim

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