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#174405 - 08/19/07 09:41 PM Why don't people take RESPONSIBILITY...
Frog Offline
Guest

Registered: 08/05/07
Posts: 291
Loc: Arizona
Why don't PEOPLE take responsibilty for their actions (sins), that
can/may/will affect others?

Quote:

"Also included in the act are sections stating the inadmissibility of
the victim's past sexual history, any evidence claiming that the
aleged victim's clothing "incited or invited the offense charged," or
that the alleged victim "invited or provoked the commission of the
offence." These provisions in the law show social recognition that
this is considered a social problem."



http://www.siue.edu/~jfarley/melanie.htm





Edited by Frog (08/20/07 12:13 AM)
_________________________
A Native American elder once described his own inner struggles in this manner: "Inside of me there are two dogs. One of the dogs is mean and evil. The other dog is good. The mean dog fights the good dog all the time." When asked which dog wins, he reflected for a moment, "The one I feed the most."

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#174406 - 08/19/07 09:46 PM Re: When do people take RESPONSIBILITY... [Re: Frog]
Frog Offline
Guest

Registered: 08/05/07
Posts: 291
Loc: Arizona

Here's the rest of my research:

http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=776945

this research comes about because of this:

'New date rape laws planned'
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/politics/2367371.stm

_________________________
A Native American elder once described his own inner struggles in this manner: "Inside of me there are two dogs. One of the dogs is mean and evil. The other dog is good. The mean dog fights the good dog all the time." When asked which dog wins, he reflected for a moment, "The one I feed the most."

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#174407 - 08/19/07 09:49 PM Re: When don't people take RESPONSIBILITY... [Re: Frog]
Frog Offline
Guest

Registered: 08/05/07
Posts: 291
Loc: Arizona

Quote:


The report said: "A defence of honest belief in free agreement should not be available if there was self-induced intoxication, recklessness as to consent, or if the accused did not take all reasonable steps in the circumstances to ascertain free agreement at the time."



_________________________
A Native American elder once described his own inner struggles in this manner: "Inside of me there are two dogs. One of the dogs is mean and evil. The other dog is good. The mean dog fights the good dog all the time." When asked which dog wins, he reflected for a moment, "The one I feed the most."

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#174411 - 08/19/07 10:14 PM Re: When don't people take RESPONSIBILITY... [Re: Frog]
Frog Offline
Guest

Registered: 08/05/07
Posts: 291
Loc: Arizona

I'm so SICK of hearing the 'poor me' excuse women are using
to JUSTIFY THEIR ACTIONS...

We are ALL RESPONSIBLE FOR OUR ACTIONS THAT MAY/WILL/CAN
AFFECT OTHERS....

_________________________
A Native American elder once described his own inner struggles in this manner: "Inside of me there are two dogs. One of the dogs is mean and evil. The other dog is good. The mean dog fights the good dog all the time." When asked which dog wins, he reflected for a moment, "The one I feed the most."

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#174412 - 08/19/07 10:19 PM Re: When don't people take RESPONSIBILITY... [Re: Frog]
Frog Offline
Guest

Registered: 08/05/07
Posts: 291
Loc: Arizona
I HAVE MADE CONSCIOUS DECISIONS IN MY LIFE THAT,
I WAS UNAWARE OF THE CONSEQUENCES,
DID LEAD TO ME BEING COERCED TWICE AND FORCED TWICE
INTO BEING RAPED BY MEN...

WHY CAN'T WOMEN MAKE THE SAME CONSCIOUS DECISION?
WHY ARE THEY TRYING TO LAY BLAME ON THE MALE?

ARE THEY NOT EQUALS?
ARE THEY NOT MADE FROM THE RIB OF MAN?
ARE THEY NOT MADE IN THE IMAGE OF GOD?





Edited by Frog (08/20/07 12:11 AM)
_________________________
A Native American elder once described his own inner struggles in this manner: "Inside of me there are two dogs. One of the dogs is mean and evil. The other dog is good. The mean dog fights the good dog all the time." When asked which dog wins, he reflected for a moment, "The one I feed the most."

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#174413 - 08/19/07 10:28 PM Re: When don't people take RESPONSIBILITY... [Re: Frog]
MarkK Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/02/07
Posts: 2503
Loc: Denver, CO
i too have made decisions that put me "in harms way". however, this does not make me responsible for what happened to me at the hands of someone else. i am not to blame for what happened to me. never was, regardless of what the perps would like me to believe.

no matter WHAT i have done - i do not deserve to be abused. no one does. i don't care what they've done. the blame lays in the hands of the abuser. always.

m


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#174421 - 08/20/07 12:09 AM Re: When don't people take RESPONSIBILITY... [Re: MarkK]
Frog Offline
Guest

Registered: 08/05/07
Posts: 291
Loc: Arizona

Should we not accept responsibility for the actions/decisions
we consciously made to put us in the situations that have
or may have lead us into harms way?

This is not just about our abuse..it's about the decisions
and/or actions of ADULTS that these people are trying
to avoid and lay blame on others...

If I walked naked down the part of town that is predominantly
bisexual/gay/homosexual/metrosexual and wound up being
groped/assualted/insulted..and then blamed them for
the actions that happened to me...How is that their issue?
How is that their blame? I'm an adult, right? I made a consciuos
decision to take off my clothes...I made a conscious
decision to walk down that part of town...

What did I expect to happen?

_________________________
A Native American elder once described his own inner struggles in this manner: "Inside of me there are two dogs. One of the dogs is mean and evil. The other dog is good. The mean dog fights the good dog all the time." When asked which dog wins, he reflected for a moment, "The one I feed the most."

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#174473 - 08/20/07 09:25 AM Re: When don't people take RESPONSIBILITY... [Re: Frog]
melliferal Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/03/05
Posts: 1159
Inasmuch as you are responsible for your own actions, others are likewise responsible for their own.

_________________________
Children cannot consent; they can only comply.

Oprah's resources for male survivors

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#174498 - 08/20/07 12:23 PM Re: When don't people take RESPONSIBILITY... [Re: melliferal]
Lazarus Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/01/07
Posts: 851
Loc: Below the radar, USA
I have mixed feelings on this one; always have...

In the situation you mentioned, Frog, while you might be an idiot or antisocial or psycopathic, the people who grope/assault/insult you are guilty of their own crimes, like Mel said. What if you walk into a high crime area of a big city and get killed; are your murderers any less responsible?

Does anyone ever consciously ask to be assaulted? I don't think so, at least not rational people. Has anyone every gotten themselves in situations by their own actions that led to their rape? I'm sure of it, but while the victim is an idiot, the rapist is still a rapist.

On the opposite end of the spectrum, have you every heard of a thing called "suicide by Cop"? It's when someone wants to committ suicide but can't do it themselves, so they put themselves in a position where the police have to shoot them. In this case, are the police every guilty of murder? I don't think so.

I'm sure there is some grey areas here, and some people will take advantage of that. As a society however, we can't just say, "Well, you asked for it..." I don't know what the right answer is except that people do need to think about their actions.

That's my 2 cents...

Lazarus

_________________________
"That which does not kill us, surely makes us stonger." - Neitsche

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#174895 - 08/22/07 06:56 AM Re: Why don't people take RESPONSIBILITY... [Re: Frog]
patch22 Offline
New Here

Registered: 07/24/07
Posts: 25
Loc: Ireland
*** TRIGGERING ***

A personal viewpoint. In my early 20s I was mega screwed-up, living rough in London (a consequence of my CSA). I had a fair bit of money & didn't need to beg or steal or anything, but one day I was propositioned by a businessman who picked me up in a station. I never had any doubts about my sexuality (and was very experienced in ordinary heterosexual sex) but I guess I was a little curious about how gay sex would be. Anyway, the lure of a nice meal and a real bed led me to accept. Come pay-off time, we were in bed and he was about to come down on me and I realised that I just couldn't do it - all wrong. So I apologised and said that I just couldn't go through with it. He called in his 'toy-boy' and they took it in turns to hold me down and rape me - which wasn't good (almost committed suicide later).
Now, yes, I was very stupid (and unlike with the CSA I do still blame myself a little). Fact is though, THEY were guilty - I was just silly. I don't think there's EVER an excuse for rape.
I was pickpocketed once when I was young, and yes I'd been careless - but it was the thieves who were guilty, not me.

If girls dress very sexily and go into a dodgy neighbourhood, they are indeed being silly, but that doesn't justify their rape. The bottom line is that non-consensual sex is ALWAYS wrong, whatever the age or sex of the victim, whatever the circumstances.

Paddy

_________________________
A dog is a man's best therapist

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#175710 - 08/25/07 11:41 AM Re: Why don't people take RESPONSIBILITY... [Re: patch22]
Frog Offline
Guest

Registered: 08/05/07
Posts: 291
Loc: Arizona

The point of this entire thread:

REVOCABLE CONSENT AFTER THE ACT...

If you pick up a female/male in a club/bar that may have had a
few drinks and return to your/her/his place and have sex...if
this same female/male has regrets/remorse AFTER the act of
CONSENSUAL SEX earlier she/he will now be able to REVOKE
her/his CONSENT and claim RAPE....

When do we accept responsibility for OUR active participation
in these acts...our actions do have consequences good or bad..
we do participate to a certain degree...

_________________________
A Native American elder once described his own inner struggles in this manner: "Inside of me there are two dogs. One of the dogs is mean and evil. The other dog is good. The mean dog fights the good dog all the time." When asked which dog wins, he reflected for a moment, "The one I feed the most."

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