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#173411 - 08/15/07 11:01 AM Why do I seek out men when not attracted to them?
treadmill_guy Offline
New Here

Registered: 08/15/07
Posts: 9
Loc: California
Often times I seek out men to perform submissive sexual acts with (namely fellatio). I've never actually gone through with it, but it is a constant fantasy that I play out by posting on Craig's List, for example.

I don't find men physically attractive. Women always draw my attention. But there is something about a man's penis that draws my interest and fantasies.

Anyone have any similar thoughts or feelings? I was once confused about my sexuality, but now I consider myself "bi-curious", though I'm not exactly sure what that encompasses.

Thanks.


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#173414 - 08/15/07 11:10 AM Re: Why do I seek out men when not attracted to them? [Re: treadmill_guy]
Dewey2k Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/22/05
Posts: 3069
"Labels are for cans."

One effect of abuse is the pathologizing of natural, normal curiosity and impulses. There is nothing wrong with being curious. Humans have shades of gray in their sexuality. Straight/Gay/Bi are all labels we use to approximate our attractions for the benefit of others, not for ourselves.

This isn't really answering your question, I realize, but it is my first take on your comments.


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#173421 - 08/15/07 11:55 AM Re: Why do I seek out men when not attracted to them? [Re: Dewey2k]
treadmill_guy Offline
New Here

Registered: 08/15/07
Posts: 9
Loc: California
I do agree with the labeling construct. It is not really for the individual's benefit so much.

I didn't really expect an answer so much as to how other guys feel. Trying, again, to ascertain some normalcy in my behavior/thoughts.


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#173469 - 08/15/07 03:06 PM Re: Why do I seek out men when not attracted to them? [Re: treadmill_guy]
bp83 Offline
Member

Registered: 06/29/06
Posts: 111
Loc: Arkansas
I have heard that an abused boy tends to re-enact his past abuse in a way that puts him in control (i.e. fantasizing about it is in your control, you won't be hurt) and it is normal to fixate on certain body parts, because they were sexualized at an early age.

_________________________
-
Scott

"Life is for living, we all know, and I don't want to live it alone..."-Chris Martin

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#173474 - 08/15/07 03:50 PM Re: Why do I seek out men when not attracted to them? [Re: bp83]
TaylorWayne Offline
New Here

Registered: 04/11/07
Posts: 11
Loc: Houston, Texas
Hey treadmill_guy:

In my experience I have found those thoughts and acting out actions to be a slippery slope if you are oriented towards women, and have not completely ruled out physical contact with guys. Mutual masturbation and submissive sexual acts are the easiest ways to fire up a guy who is already curious. It has been my experience that the curiosity does not just stop there. It may lay dormant for a while after acting out, but in many cases it re-awakes at some point with a vengeance. It is my opinion that if you are at the point of putting ads and looking at ads on Craigslist, you may be further down the curious road than you might realize. I am concerned with so much time and fantasy energy invested, if the opportunity actually pokes you in the face, it will prove difficult not to act out and fulfill your fantasy. Sooner or later the opportunity will present itself. If that next step is a situation you do not wish to find yourself in one day, you will need to get help now. Many people advocate experimentation when feeling this urge, but I think it is like eating the forbidden apple, or the result of a Grizzly Bear tasting human blood. In the case of the bear, most every time the forest rangers have to kill any bear that has tasted human blood. If the ranger does not, the bear will come looking for more human blood because now the bear has a taste for it. I think that is how our souls behave when we are exposed to new hot sexual experiences or sexual situations we have fantasized about. I think experimenting with guys will make it more difficult to be monogamous with the woman you will eventually settle down with. Be smart. Proceed with caution.

TaylorWayne


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#173476 - 08/15/07 03:58 PM Re: Why do I seek out men when not attracted to th [Re: bp83]
treadmill_guy Offline
New Here

Registered: 08/15/07
Posts: 9
Loc: California
Originally Posted By: bp83
I have heard that an abused boy tends to re-enact his past abuse in a way that puts him in control (i.e. fantasizing about it is in your control, you won't be hurt) and it is normal to fixate on certain body parts, because they were sexualized at an early age.

That seems to make sense. I've never thought about it that way before. Thanks for the insight!


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#173478 - 08/15/07 04:01 PM Re: Why do I seek out men when not attracted to th [Re: TaylorWayne]
treadmill_guy Offline
New Here

Registered: 08/15/07
Posts: 9
Loc: California
Originally Posted By: TaylorWayne
I think experimenting with guys will make it more difficult to be monogamous with the woman you will eventually settle down with.
Thanks TaylorWayne. I already am married. And yes, my wife knows about my fantasies. Of course, she'd never have me act them out. She plays them down as normal. She doesn't know how close I've come to acting out on those impulses, though. And that's exactly how they come -- in impulses. Something I'm not aware of must trigger the fantasy.


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#173506 - 08/15/07 06:41 PM Re: Why do I seek out men when not attracted to th [Re: treadmill_guy]
Lazarus Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/01/07
Posts: 851
Loc: Below the radar, USA
Treadmill Guy,

This is advice from a gay man who was married to a woman for 22 years.

Before you mentioned that you are married, I was of the opinion that there was nothing wrong with exploring your fantasies. But now I have to agree with Taylor Wayne. You have made a choice, and in good faith thinking it was the right choice for you. Now it is my opinion that you owe it to your wife NOT to act out of this impulse.

Like you, I considered myself bisexual for many years. I told myself that not having an aversion being gay was cool and modern. I figured it was the person that I was attracted to, not just the sexual organs. Now I understand that there are two fallacies with he whole concept of bisexuality: 1. If you label yourself bisexual, nobody trusts you. Your guy friends don't trust you not to steal their girlfriends and your girlfriends don't trust you to go out and have a beer with the guys cause you might be screwing one of them instead. And 2. I've never met a man or woman who called themselves bisexual who wasn't really gay and just afraid or unwilling to admit it.

There, that's my rant on bisexuality. But you didn't say you were bisexual, just that you were bi-curious. Why not say 'gay-curious' instead, because that's what it really is. You wanna suck some dick. There's nothing wrong with that...

...Unless you are married, which you are. To your wife, going out and finding a guy to have sex with is an even worse betrayal than if you had sex with another woman; she can compete with another woman, but not with another guy. I know that sounds cliche, but think about it - it's true.

You've made a choice to marry. There aren't many things that you could do to ruin your marriage faster than sleeping with another man. I say, 'Don't Do It!" Remove your Craig's List profile. Remove all the gay links, images and porn on your computer and in your life ('cause I know it's there, isn't it?). Don't even entertain the possibility for one second. If you do, you can kiss your wife goodbye, and I hope you'll do it as quickly and painlessly (for her) as possible. She deserves a man who makes her feel special, makes fer feel attractive and loved. She deserves a man who is good for her in bed as well as in the kitchen. Once she knows you're out cruising for dick, none of that will be possible, I promise.

If this sounds harsh, I apologize. It's the truth as I see it, and I've been in your shoes. I was a model husband, but I put my wife through years of this shit, and it wasn't fair to her in any way. Don't use your CSA as an excuse to ruin your relationship with her. It doesn't have to be that way.

Best wishes,

Lazarus

_________________________
"That which does not kill us, surely makes us stonger." - Neitsche

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#173608 - 08/16/07 03:13 AM Re: Why do I seek out men when not attracted to th [Re: Lazarus]
pietie Offline
Guest

Registered: 01/23/07
Posts: 326
Loc: South Africa
Lazarus

Your words are harsh but I think something not only Treadmill Guy was supposed to hear.

I have to agree with a lot said. I have been married for almost 10 years and sometimes it is worth it continuing and putting my wife through hell because that is reality. Its not always easy to stay on the "straight and narrow". Its been almost 9 months since the last time I went looking for another man. Getting of all the websites and breaking all contact with the people I met there wasnt easy but it was worth it. Reality is, I still look around, I still have some fantasies but since not acting on them it has been better.

Best of luck

_________________________
Not Perfect, just forgiven

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#173684 - 08/16/07 03:07 PM Re: Why do I seek out men when not attracted to th [Re: Lazarus]
treadmill_guy Offline
New Here

Registered: 08/15/07
Posts: 9
Loc: California
Originally Posted By: Lazarus
...This is advice from a gay man who was married to a woman for 22 years...If this sounds harsh, I apologize. It's the truth as I see it, and I've been in your shoes. I was a model husband, but I put my wife through years of this shit, and it wasn't fair to her in any way. Don't use your CSA as an excuse to ruin your relationship with her. It doesn't have to be that way.

Hi Lazarus,

I appreciate your post. Yes, it was a tad harsh, but given the information I provided I can see why. But, you really haven't been in my shoes. I'm not gay. I am attracted only to women. As I said in the tail end of my post, I wonder what is triggering these episodes. Since they are sporadic in nature I can only come to the conclusion that some environmental or psychological cue precedes them.

I've never heard the acronym CSA. I had to look it up. I would never use it as an "excuse" for any behavior. That I do resent. However, looking at my behavior for clues as to *why* I may do something is only logical. In the end, I am responsible for what I do, true. That I do understand. But to pay attention to patterns, become aware of them, and do something to correct them it is not using it as an excuse.


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#173702 - 08/16/07 05:03 PM Re: Why do I seek out men when not attracted to th [Re: treadmill_guy]
Lazarus Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/01/07
Posts: 851
Loc: Below the radar, USA
Treadmill,

You are right, and I apologize. I took your post way too personally and conveyed my feelings upon you. And I should never have said that bit about using your CSA as an excuse. You caught me on a bad day, and I'm sorry I took it out on you.

But can you tell how passionate I am about this? One of the reasons I finally, finally ended my marriage was that someone convinced me that it wasn't fair for my wife to stay in the relationship. When I started dating again, I wouldn't even see married men, because I didn't want to be the one to screw up their relationship.

If it sounds hypocritical then perhaps it is, because I cheated on my wife many times. But like a reformed alcoholic, I truly saw the error in my ways.

It's not for me to tell you what to do and what not to do, and again, I apologize.

Perhaps what is triggering you is the idea of reinacting your abuse, but this time with you in control rather than the other way around. That's something that I heard someone else say, and it made sense to me. But that's just a shot in the dark.

Best regards,

Lazarus

_________________________
"That which does not kill us, surely makes us stonger." - Neitsche

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#173736 - 08/16/07 07:32 PM Re: Why do I seek out men when not attracted to th [Re: Lazarus]
TIN Offline
New Here

Registered: 04/09/07
Posts: 10
Loc: Frederick MD
Guys,

After reading this string of posts, I have to say this really hit home for me. I have been down this bi-curious/gay curious road for a long time in my life. However, I still manage to come to the same conclusion that my wife (of 17 years) and family are the most important to me. I did much exploring in my college days and before I was married, and determined that the gay life was not for me. Yet, I still find men attractive and struggle with those thoughts constantly. Itís always self-doubt. I came clean with my wife about 10-11 years ago when I acted on a fantasy. It almost killed our marriage and ripped me apart. Iím not one that can keep a secret. Well, about a year ago, our marriage was little rocky, as they all get from time to time, and of course all the self-doubt starts again. I start searching the net, the links etc, etc. etc. and...., rationalized another male-to-male exchange was required for reassurance of who I was and where I was suppose to be in life. Well, mistake number two! At the end of the day, I was filled with regret. Of course I disclosed to my wife and I was sick and a wreck for weeks. I thought this was the end of my life as I knew it and for what. My wife and I worked it out. Amazingly. It is something that is always between us and as been extremely detrimental to our marriage.

I still struggle with the thoughts when they occur. I begin to analysis them and wonder if am I just looking for a little love, and this is my way of finding it. Think about what you are looking for. Once you go down a path, sometimes itís hard to get off it before itís to late, even if it is just being curious. Remember what happened to the curious cat. Some of my life lessons.


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#173796 - 08/17/07 12:34 AM Re: Why do I seek out men when not attracted to th [Re: Lazarus]
treadmill_guy Offline
New Here

Registered: 08/15/07
Posts: 9
Loc: California
Lazarus,

I haven't been ignoring you, just busy today. I will respond to you and TIN sometime tomorrow.

Thanks for the replies.


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#175767 - 08/25/07 03:17 PM Re: Why do I seek out men when not attracted to them? [Re: treadmill_guy]
jakemed Offline
Guest

Registered: 08/23/07
Posts: 37
ahhh...the penis...wouldn't you know. I am basically straight, been married for years and yet I desire that as well sometimes. I don't know if I am bisexual or seeking that "object" that changed my life so long ago. Sometimes, it doesn't seem like there is rhymn or reason about obsessions (me anyway) AND many times we want a logical answer to such an illogical problem. Hell, I don't even ask the question anymore.(well, thats a lie cause sometimes I still do) To me, it is so normal, apart of my overall desires...the real issue for me is the fear of looking for it and actually acting out. My wife is very understanding...but not that understanding...jake


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#175768 - 08/25/07 03:25 PM Re: Why do I seek out men when not attracted to th [Re: TIN]
jakemed Offline
Guest

Registered: 08/23/07
Posts: 37
TIN...boy I relate to your post...I have struggled with the same types of things....for years. I am in a good place now, found some balance after really understanding what I really wanted in a relationship...but that is me. It hasn't always been that way though. I still fantizes and look alot but that is all. My wife has been part of my journey though.

Great to know there are others out there who have had similar experiences...jake


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#178090 - 09/03/07 10:12 PM Re: Why do I seek out men when not attracted to th [Re: jakemed]
TIN Offline
New Here

Registered: 04/09/07
Posts: 10
Loc: Frederick MD
Thanks jakemed. It is nice to know others in the same boat I have been in. I'm keeping my fantizes from becoming actions. My wife has been part of this journey for me as well. It's just not something I can share in great detail with my wife. I long for the honest man to man disclosure to feel free to have this type of dialogue and not hide behind those thoughts. I accept they are part of me and am in good place now in with my wife. My wife says she accepts, but I always have self doubt. And it isn't something you talk about at the monthly card game with the guys. Or least I have not found a friend yet they I would feel comfortable disclosing and having the friendship fall apart.


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#178176 - 09/04/07 10:14 AM Re: Why do I seek out men when not attracted to th [Re: treadmill_guy]
kellygtx Offline
Guest

Registered: 07/11/07
Posts: 412
Loc: Texas, USA
From an article by Merle James Yost on Sexual Addiction and CSA. This was sent to me by a therapist who tells me mine is all about a contra phobia or a repetition compulsion. This may help you understand how you feel compelled to act out and why.

In my experience, many men that have been labeled as sexual addicts are in reality experiencing a repetition compulsion. The circumstances of the initial abuse so stimulated them that their young bodies and minds were unable to process or contain the overwhelming sensations. Consequently, they froze inside and they associated sex and sexual feelings with these overwhelming sensations and often feel a power imbalance is part of sex, so they attempt to recreate the situation in an effort to complete the gestalt. They are trying to complete this unfinished experience. The child part of him is trying to find a way out of the loop he is in and to the outside world this often looks like sexual addiction. The acting out behavior could start as a repetition compulsion and turn into an addiction as well.



When a boy has been sexually assaulted, his life changes forever. There can be small to extreme changes in behaviors, moods, and attitudes about people, himself and the world. These feelings do not go away and the impact is not minor regardless of how the boy appears to be taking it. Children do what they need to do to survive. They may feel that their survival depends upon hiding this experience at all costs. Treatment is the only answer to really recovering. Left untreated, the wounds follow the man into adulthood and impact their relationships with everyone. Admitting the pain is terrible, but the victim stands to gain a life without the pain of the abuse. Men can and do heal from childhood sexual abuse.




Edited by kellygtx (09/04/07 10:14 AM)
_________________________
I bid you Peace.

Kelly

The time is always NOW. Breath In. Breath Out. Move On.

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#178213 - 09/04/07 12:26 PM Re: Why do I seek out men when not attracted to th [Re: kellygtx]
Dewey2k Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/22/05
Posts: 3069
Merle Yost is a great guy, and one of the only therapists (outside of the facilitators at the WoRs) I have met that really gets it.



Edited by Dewey2k (09/04/07 12:27 PM)

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#179018 - 09/07/07 04:32 PM Re: Why do I seek out men when not attracted to th [Re: Dewey2k]
testingWaters Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/19/06
Posts: 508
Lazarus, while I am sure you mean well, I am astounded to read anything so harsh on this board where people are really, really vulnerable about sexual identity issues as:

"I've never met a man or woman who called themselves bisexual who wasn't really gay and just afraid or unwilling to admit it."

Fair enough you said *you* had not met one, but for the posterirty of this thread -- I have met tons and tons of them.


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#180423 - 09/15/07 12:06 PM Re: Why do I seek out men when not attracted to th [Re: testingWaters]
easterneurope Offline
Guest

Registered: 07/11/07
Posts: 60
Loc: eastern europe
this might be too simplistic for some, but I'm concluded that the early abuse when the penis was so much a part of it all.... it flips a switch in our heads. I mean, because it is a sexual switch, it really complicates things. I often think "a man, a long time ago, flipped a switch in me that told me that I was only as good as the pleasure I could give his penis."

_________________________


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#182465 - 09/26/07 11:43 AM Re: Why do I seek out men when not attracted to them? [Re: treadmill_guy]
jakemed Offline
Guest

Registered: 08/23/07
Posts: 37
I would like to chime in one more time.

I have been married a very long time. I kept my SSA hidden for most of it. There was a time 25 odd years ago that I acted out but have been monogamous ever since. I still have male fantizes, I still look. What has helped me to find a balance is allowing my wife in on my secret...which is no longer a secret.

I talk about my male fantizes with her and have actually added some sexual practices into our sex life. We have even watched gay porn together. (at first, that was very hard to do)I do have some outlets, on line that is but maintain monogamy. It is so common place for us now, just part of our lives.

Now, has it been hard?...absolutely. But my resolve has never wavered. I finally know what I want in my life and I have choose to commit to it. Everyone is different but this has worked for us.

So whether I am bisexual or wanting to reinact that "dick" experience is kind of a mute point. Once you realize what you really want in your life...the road is plain, hard sometimes but plain...for me anyway...jake


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#182548 - 09/26/07 06:47 PM Re: Why do I seek out men when not attracted to th [Re: treadmill_guy]
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
Guys,

I'm coming to this one late, I see. But I'd just like to stress that there's a huge difference between sexual behavior that expresses our sexuality, and sexual behavior that represents acting out.

If I am with someone sexually and find myself just lost in their presence in every way - sexual, physical and emotional - then probably I am experiencing sexual fulfillment and this is part of who I am sexually. I will feel not just the sexual excitement, but peace and contentment with who I am and with my connection to this other person.

But if I am just "getting some" and feel conflict as I do so, then something is amiss. I might be acting out. If it's just a matter of a physical act and all I am in it for is the orgasm, well, that's not very fulfilling I think. and if what I'm doing makes me feel good at the moment, but then bad later on when I think about it, and if it's something I am doing over and over again, then it's more likely I am acting out.

Treadmill_Guy you seem to be talking about acting out - or thinking about acting out - when you say this:

Originally Posted By: treadmill_guy
I don't find men physically attractive. Women always draw my attention. But there is something about a man's penis that draws my interest and fantasies.


Part of the reason a survivor may feel this way has to do with control, as someone else has already said. As a boy you learned from abuse that you were helpless and powerless; the abuse involved loss of control. So in these fantasies you are creating scenarios were your control is restored.

You might ask why you would create a scenario in which you are still performing sexual acts reminiscent of the abuse. Again the answer lies in your youth. Abuse can leave a boy with no boundaries and feeling he is good only for what the abuser wants. Do you remember feeling like an empty shell with no "me" inside anymore?

Unless these feelings get resolved in therapy they can just continue in a guy. This is a big reason why so many "rent boys" prove to be victims of abuse earlier in their lives. They feel they are "in control" now because they decide when, where, who and how much, but what they don't see is that they are basically recreating the old situation of their abuse and crediting the old feeling they had of not being good for anything but exploitive sex.

My feeling is that what you are doing is something similar, but as a fantasy. You fantasize a sexual situation in which you are back in control, but the situation is one that reflects the negative feelings you learned as an abused boy.

I don't mean to speak against the possibility that you are gay or bi or whatever. I would just suggest it's worth looking at these fantasies to see what they represent. That is, they may have nothing to do with your sexuality at all.

Much love,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

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#182576 - 09/26/07 08:42 PM Re: Why do I seek out men when not attracted to th [Re: roadrunner]
testingWaters Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/19/06
Posts: 508
TG--

To chime in on this one: I acted out a small number of times before I acknowledged what was going on. The situations I sought were very specific opportunities to show off my naked body, to feel seductive, to not get it up when someone touched me, to be the initiator, to recreate really specific moments *by choice* and to say that *I* liked them. Why? Well, duh! Who doesn't want to change the past? Who doesn't want to say - NOPE, *I* was the initiator. *I* was in charge. *I* asked for it. Maybe not everyone, but I sure did. That's alot easier than acknowledging feeling completely powerless and afraid. For me at least.....

I am still ashamed about having done so. Mostly because it was not fair to the men with whom I did so. And honestly it was disrespectful to myself, but hey I learned from it and I am human.

So I'm not all that into guys. Thats pretty black and white for me. But even on this board I choose not even to talk about what I just wrote because there are a bunch of gay men who also sought out gay sex while coming to terms with their sexuality. And for alot of them, coming out of the closet was the most liberating thing they have ever done and I think they would really like to help anyone else in the same position. I watched a guy admit this to himself for the first time recently and it was simply beautiful.

But I wish there was a way that straight men who also go through all that tough, soul-wrenching work to be honest with themselves could do the same. My sexuality is just as much a part of me and my joy and I'd also like to celebrate that and proclaim it. Forgive me if it seems strange - but it was just as wrenching to come to terms with being straight. And if I proclaim it too, I feel like people won't understand that its just as affirming and wonderful, just as self-loving and self-accepting.

Nuff about me - just remember, though I think you know this, whatever is going on is ok. No matter what your sexuality is, it should be a huge source of pleasure *and* joy in your life. Working towards a place where it can be is awesome!

LOve,
TW


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#186610 - 10/11/07 09:00 PM Re: Why do I seek out men when not attracted to th [Re: testingWaters]
TIN Offline
New Here

Registered: 04/09/07
Posts: 10
Loc: Frederick MD
Gentleman,

This is has been one of the most 'reassuring' threads I have read that others are/have been in my boat. Jake - thank you for your honesty. It is comforting to see the place you could get to. I have belive I am near the same place personally, but not sure I can be there with my wife yet. Because of my actions, I lost a lot of trust. As much as I wish I could share and take that power away, Unfortunatly, I just can't at this time. Our life is to fragile at that moment, and I can deal with the preasure it adds. It can make being at home like walking on egg shells.

Thank you again for sharing. It's a great help!


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#187148 - 10/14/07 07:46 PM Re: Why do I seek out men when not attracted to them? [Re: treadmill_guy]
saint-of-Lost-Causes Offline
Guest

Registered: 10/13/07
Posts: 57
Loc: Michigan
This has quite possibly saved my sanity! I thought I was not normal and wondered why I had these thoughts! THANKS SO MUCH!~

_________________________
We accept the love we think we deserve!

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#187369 - 10/16/07 01:49 AM Re: Why do I seek out men when not attracted to th [Re: treadmill_guy]
dgoods Offline
Guest

Registered: 10/15/07
Posts: 622
Loc: Richmond area
just my opinion, take it or leave it, but...
a lot of good insight here, I've struggled for years to understand my sexuality, and the key word which jumped out at me was "impulsive". I remember a sleepover at age 10, where my best friend and I looked at his older brother's porn, and we agreed to suck each other off. He wasn't (as far as I know) ever abused; where I was *very* excited, hyper and eager to please, he just wanted an orgasm. My point is this- I'll never forget his reaction to the feeling of what I was doing, the surprised "Oh god does that feel good, don't stop".
It was the feeling of *power* and control over the situation that made this experience so memorable. Of course, he was ashamed and disgusted after, and wouldn't talk to me for a day.
My history includes both male and female abuse, so needless to say, sexual confusion has been an issue for some time. I think it's a boundary issue- I was hypersexual up to about age 20, and was either a cartoon of masculinity or, more rarely, femininity- but really just a little boy who was trying to purchase love through good performance. To me, it seems like a strong NON-SEXUAL male relationship might be what your heart's really after, and your actions are simply the only way your subconscious knows how to respond. Again, just my thoughts, hope this helped.

_________________________
Give sorrow words: the grief that does not speak
Whispers the o'er-fraught heart and bids it break.

-William Shakespeare, Macbeth, Act IV, Sc. III

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#187494 - 10/16/07 08:20 PM Re: Why do I seek out men when not attracted to th [Re: dgoods]
TIN Offline
New Here

Registered: 04/09/07
Posts: 10
Loc: Frederick MD
Thanks - I agree with your assesment. I often assoicate every male bond with some level of sexual releationship or motive, when in fact it is not. It is difficult throught process to dis-associate the two. It is the little boy looking for the love and compasion and when the only measure as boy was sexual, it's difficult to seperate the two.

It keeps for a constant struggle, but with my rose colored glass, it does open up a whole new view that I hope someday to be able to have that deeper relationship with another male in a non-sexual way. It's a matter of getting over the bagage that comes with this abuse. How do you share those experiences and become that vulunerable? Thats the scary part. I haven't been ready to put myself out there yet or found the other male that I think could handle it.


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#187791 - 10/18/07 12:43 PM Re: Why do I seek out men when not attracted to th [Re: TIN]
buzz_key Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/31/07
Posts: 635
Loc: USA
TIN,
my life was identical to yours in the past.
what i would say is just to keep working on the abuse. for me, during that work, i was able to disclose to my best friend and he has been there with me through all of this...the kicker is, he is also my pastor, i thought it would stop whatever relationship we had...but it didn't, it has strengthened it and we have become closer. I never, EVER iagined in my past that i would be in a healthy, close relationship with another man that wasn't sexual...how wrong i was. My wife knows all about the acting out i did for the first 16 years of our marriage, I am learning about trust, intimacy, and how to make my marriage (and other relationships) healthy.

hang in there my friend...it definitely can change!
buzz


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#188333 - 10/22/07 04:07 AM Re: Why do I seek out men when not attracted to th [Re: buzz_key]
dwchan Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/11/05
Posts: 11
Loc: Vancouver, BC
Thank you all for posting. Like some have said, I thought I was going crazy... All I can say at this point is that I think I can relate to many of you. Not sure where I am right now, but I have been struggling during the last week. I recently told a very good friend of mine (actually he is more like a younger brother to me) about my fantasy of other males. This friend knows of my SA. I've always had a hard time admitting my troublesome fantasy even during therapy. This recent confession triggered a lot of memories and it brought me into a deep sadness. When I was in college, I lost a very close male friend because as we got close emotionally, we also became involved sexually once, and that scared him away. I don't want to repeat the same history with this dear friend of mine. I need to believe that I can have close male friends without being involved sexually. I've never been drawn to him sexually before. Shamefully, I have recently imagined acting out with him occassionally. I am sure if I did, I would lose him as a friend and a lot more... but what if he initiates it, would I be able to refuse? A moment of weakness will ruin everything that I have worked so hard to build up. Do I make any sense? Can anyone sympathize with me?

Danny - struggling


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#188340 - 10/22/07 07:46 AM Re: Why do I seek out men when not attracted to th [Re: dwchan]
dgoods Offline
Guest

Registered: 10/15/07
Posts: 622
Loc: Richmond area
Welcome Danny! I certainly can empathize with you. Allowing yourself to get in a mental see-saw where one minute you focus on the fantasy, and the next you berate yourself for having it in the first place, is something I'm guilty of.

Maybe a merry-go-round is a better analogy, one of urge, compulsion, shame, guilt, repression, secrecy; round and round we go. The cycle won't stop until we recognize that it is a cycle, and remember that our minds should belong to us. We often forget how hard it is, to get our hearts to accept what our minds know to be true. You may know that, given your history, at some time you are going to find yourself feeling attracted to males, and that acting on that attraction had negative consequences in the past.

While knowing this doesn't stop you from feeling aroused, it does present an opportunity to ask yourself some questions, such as: "Am I trying to replay the acts that took place during my abuse, but in a context that lets ME be in control, be the initiator?" Our minds often replay trauma over and over again; combined with the difficulty of accepting that our arousal, erections and orgasms happened during the abuse without meaning in the slightest that we wanted it, needed it, or were asking for it on any level, we find ourselves in situations repeatedly wondering why we're torturing ourselves so. Subconsciously, we try to substitute good associations for bad ones when we're aroused, to make sexuality something safe and positive, the way it seems to be for "normal" people. Yet reality never matches the fantasy- our fear, shame and guilt rise up to ensure we're a mess by the time any shot at sexual expression presents itself.

We often confuse normal adult interaction and behavior with predatory, manipulative, or deceptive behavior shown us by our abusers. I myself always have a negative reaction, and never a positive one, with the word "seduce"- i'm aware that many adults can have positive associations with the word, find it sexy, a turn-on. Not me. I read "seduce", "seductive", etc. and immediately think of deception, manipulation, betrayal and evil.

I noticed you see this friend as a younger brother, and that he knows of your SA, as well as your male fantasies. This could be another issue- you find yourself growing close to someone, and the child inside us cannot stand another betrayal,rejection, or abandonment. An unspoken conviction of being unworthy of love, that the other "wouldn't love me if they knew who or how i REALLY am" can co-exist with a deep need for acceptance, and fear of rejection. The closer one feels toward someone, the more struggle and tension there is between all of these intense drives and feelings, and the more likely something will sabotage the relationship if these issues aren't looked at as they come up.

I very much hope that if you are unable to get off the merry-go-round for now, and find yourself acting out, that you have at least been honest enough with your friend, so that anything you might end up doing won't totally shock him into trying to forget he knew you. If he has the strength to calmly turn aside any attempt to sexualize the relationship, while steadfastly refusing to be scared away or to stop caring about you, than you have been given a remarkable chance to start to ditch some very heavy chains indeed.
Again, welcome, hope something helped, and thanks for reading this post all the way to the end...;)

_________________________
Give sorrow words: the grief that does not speak
Whispers the o'er-fraught heart and bids it break.

-William Shakespeare, Macbeth, Act IV, Sc. III

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#188892 - 10/27/07 02:18 AM Re: Why do I seek out men when not attracted to th [Re: dgoods]
dwchan Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/11/05
Posts: 11
Loc: Vancouver, BC
Thanks for the support!! Another thing that have sabotaged any such male relationship in the past is my emotional dependency on the person whom I've shared my struggle with. Since I want to be able to connect with someone who understands me, I also want them to be open with me. I don't want this to be a one way traffic as in how can they help or fix me. I want my friendship with that person to be mutual. But often time it has been somewhat one way, and it often makes me feel inferior.

I hate opening up myself to people because they always disappoint me at the end. I know it's not fair to place such an expection on them, but I can't help it. Every time I open my situation to someone, I feel like a big part of me is ripped out of me. And then I gradually form a kind of dependency on them. And they always fail to live up to my expectation and I get hurt... why do I subject myself to the same hurt again and again? I know that it's not fair for them. But somehow I wish I could stop needing others. I wish I was more like Data (Star Trek), then I wouldn't have to deal with any emotions.

I've been considering withdrawing myself from the friend whom I mentioned in my previous post. I don't want to hurt myself, and equally, I don't want to hurt him in the end. It won't be a easy thing to do... but I want to stop it before it's too late.

Feeling so alone again...

Danny

_________________________
"But in all these things we more than conquer through Him who loved us." Rom. 8:37

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#188912 - 10/27/07 12:02 PM Re: Why do I seek out men when not attracted to th *DELETED* [Re: dwchan]
River Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/23/07
Posts: 112
Loc: Nashville,Tennessee
Post deleted by River



Edited by River (10/29/07 10:45 AM)
_________________________
GD

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#188925 - 10/27/07 01:26 PM Re: Why do I seek out men when not attracted to th [Re: River]
dgoods Offline
Guest

Registered: 10/15/07
Posts: 622
Loc: Richmond area
Great points, guys-
Part of my struggle has been exactly what Danny descibes, in feeling that dependency-fear. In my case, it was a certain level of emotional commitment- i never told of the abuse, but would silently reach a point of feeling safe or loved, that would cause me to panic at the thought of losing that person; yet i would also realize that they were only human and that my needs or expectations were unfair, especially in the light of my remaining silent about my CSA; a boundary issue if there ever was one. Vacillating between seeming cold and emotionless one minute, and being overemotional/hysterical the next, i too haved asked myself why this seemed to repeat over and over again. But no extreme approach reflects reality, and now i try to remind myself that black-or-white thinking is harmful to me, and a sign that i'm letting my past take over the present.
River, thanks for the link, and for expressing the tired frustration one feels on getting unconsciously biased, if well-meaning advice; i've been in that boat too.
What a nifty site this is, huh?

_________________________
Give sorrow words: the grief that does not speak
Whispers the o'er-fraught heart and bids it break.

-William Shakespeare, Macbeth, Act IV, Sc. III

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#188926 - 10/27/07 01:53 PM Re: Why do I seek out men when not attracted to th [Re: treadmill_guy]
Danbuff Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/03/07
Posts: 249
Loc: NY state
Ok, I have to respond to this statement:I've never heard the acronym CSA. I had to look it up. I would never use it as an "excuse" for any behavior.

Not being an expert on the theory and nor am I a psychologist but that statement seems rather contradictory to simply being human. CSA is a major contribution to screwed up cognitions, distorted beliefs and behaviors that recreate familiar comfort levels because they are what we know. Of course it is legitimate to connect or even justify or otherwise "excuse" acting out. I completely disagree with you with all due respect. I would ask that you give some thought to the concept of modeling. Of course everyones situation and past is unique and there is no cookie cutter approach to figuring out life choices and human behavior. However it it quite a stretch to imply or state that CSA is not an excuse for behavior as an adult.Best of luck to you in coming to terms with where you are on your journey though. May you find the supports and answers you seek.
Dan

_________________________
When you stumble, make it part of the dance.

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#189051 - 10/29/07 12:29 AM Re: Why do I seek out men when not attracted to th [Re: dgoods]
sebby Offline
New Here

Registered: 10/29/07
Posts: 2
Loc: california
It's strange, I just joined this site and read your post first and I related right away. My wife has known about my history for a while, but we are now dealing with it in couples therapy. I do not identify with being gay, nor am I in denial of it, which is always the question. I am straight and very attracted to my wife, but have fantasies of reliving my past experiences with a much older man. I think about it while I am with my wife and feel deeply ashamed. The thing is though, that I have tried multiple times before my marriage to relive those experiences and it was always a failure. Nothing lives up to those memories that shaped us, whether we accept that we were abused or not.
For some of us, our memories leave a haunting desire that we cannot attain anymore. What we experienced was not homo or hetero sexuality, but something altogether different that we cannot capture. That is the hardest thing for me to deal with, that those events are a ghostly hand on my libido. You and I are straight, but our pasts defy definition and it wreaks havoc on our present. Just know, you cannot relive those experiences. That is the damage those moments inflict upon the unformed mind. Love your partner and acknowledge your memories are a book you once read (whether you loved it or not) and a reality you cannot capture again.



Edited by sebby (10/29/07 12:32 AM)

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#189058 - 10/29/07 08:49 AM Re: Why do I seek out men when not attracted to th [Re: sebby]
cbfull Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/26/07
Posts: 386
Loc: Ohio
Welcome to the site sebby!

Thanks for chiming in and sharing your situation with us. There's something I feel I should point out that you may find to be a common understanding amongst everyone here.

From time to time you will hear some of us using the terms "gay" and "straight". Most of the fellas here understand that at least one of those labels, but usually both, are hurtful to see and hear. They are too strict and they really just do not work when it comes to human sexuality. To this day, I still feel pain and sadness whenever someone uses the term, "straight". I don't know if you recognize this sort of hurtfulness within yourself, but I am guessing by the concerns that you address in your post that the labels are hurting you too. Not to put salt on the wound, but how can anyone be "straight" and yet are aroused by thoughts of same-sex intimacy? Please do not misunderstand my intentions here, this is not meant to be an "in-your-face" kind of remark. I probably didn't even need to be that explicit in pointing out the hypocricy of the labels.

My point is simply that it is very likely that you will find your feelings of frustration, shame, and perhaps confusion (you didn't mention feeling confused but I threw that in for other guys) shrink and even begin to resolve all by themselves if you can understand how those labels do not and can not be applied to people, particularly those who have had the natural develpment of their sexual health and identity completely disrupted before they knew what was happening.

A little background on me so you don't have to dig too far into old posts. I decided at the age of 22 to exclusively explore same-sex relationships. I was sexually abused by my male 16 y.o. babysitter/neighbor when I was 10, and I thought it was a relationship. I had no idea that it was not healthy to be in a "relationship" where my sexual curiosity and desires were exploited simply for the pleasuring of an older individual.

I too am quite familiar with these feelings of attachment, dependency, attraction, fear of rejection, etc. that the other fellas are describing. I have spent decades trying to understand those feelings myself, and the best I have been able to do is identify it as a type of PTSD, or posttraumatic stress disorder. The development of this disorder does not limit itself to war veterans and rape victims (which a huge portion of the fellas here are), it can begin with events that are far more subtle, including something as seemingly benign as an inappropriate image. It is highly dependant on the individual, and if I can quote a statement from a PTSD website, "The traumas that cause PTSD are as unique as the individuals suffering from the disorder." I have not yet read throught the entire website, Wellness Directory of Minnesota, PTSD, so I can't say how good the site actually is.

I am in the process of exploring how the symptoms of PTSD apply to me, and I have been keeping a personal journal on this site under the thread "feeling triggered and I don't like it". I believe that this attachment stems from a very deep rooted fear of abandonment, and it is so deeply rooted that we keep trying to relive the circumstances of it because we believe we are trying to take ownership of the very painful feelings. I believe that what we are ultimitely doing without even knowing it is putting ourselves at high-risk for revictimization. I am no psychologist but when I get very confused and scared I tend to read about these disorders and learn as much as I possibly can.

Sorry for rambling on, but I thought some of this info could be helpful. If not, I'm sorry for rambling!

Craig

_________________________
Craig

Guilt and shame have never done any of us any good at all.

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#210154 - 03/11/08 06:23 PM Re: Why do I seek out men when not attracted to th [Re: treadmill_guy]
JT's the Man Offline
Guest

Registered: 02/21/08
Posts: 41
WOW!

Treadmill Guy:

I really really identify with your post. It has been the story of the last 10 years of my life.

I have found recently something very different. While I was fixated on guys bodies, it does not mean that I wanted to be with them. I pursued this because of my abuse though.

I ended up having compulsive sex over the past year with guys as a result of breaking up with my girlfriend.

SO maybe you would like to talk, I am here and we could definitely talk. I am definitely straight but have been very confused...
JT


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#213491 - 03/27/08 02:00 PM Re: Why do I seek out men when not attracted to th [Re: testingWaters]
JustJeff Offline
Guest

Registered: 03/19/08
Posts: 262
I think bp has the right idea.

_________________________
.

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#215432 - 04/04/08 09:04 PM Re: Why do I seek out men when not attracted to th [Re: treadmill_guy]
jamess_54321 Offline
New Here

Registered: 04/04/08
Posts: 2

I have been married for many years, and had the same thoughts, I am not attracted to men either I love my wife, making love to her, and all the good things good husbands do when happily married. but those fantasies of doing a man kept me wondering I finally acted on it and it was horrible. but you know I went back, over and over, at first it made me sick but the more i went the more habitual it became. I was sick with guilt for years carring this secret life around for all those years. kept telling myself it was going to stop, only to find myself back out again. I use to use the excuse that its ok because my wife dont have a dick, and cannot provide that need for mean and therefore it is not cheating. I also thought it would be better for her to find me with a man, rather than a woman, because of that my warped thinking was that another woman has what you have so therefore i dont need a woman to cheat with that made the man thing more justifiable in my warped mind.thank
God I got caught and now have to look at the whole picture with open eyes and mind, and started counseling to help me, my great wife, is as of today, still trying to work through this with me and , all I can say about that is she must love me a lot to even be willing to try after what I put on her plate. so I would say to you treadmill guy that you might think of getting some professional help or advise because the thoughts were on my mind for some time before I finally let the curiosity finally get the cat so to speak thanks for listening.


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#215474 - 04/05/08 12:11 AM Re: Why do I seek out men when not attracted to th [Re: jamess_54321]
Freedom49 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/30/07
Posts: 2723
Loc: Washington State
There is something that happens to us when we are abused by another male. The normal curiosity and competitiveness gets hard wired to sexusl impulses and even before we can understand it we can find ourselves drawn to want to act out in this fashion. Counseling and telking about can relieve some of the desires but some rewireing may be in order if that does not work. It is not ease but it can work and you can overcome these disires. The worst thing we can do is hide it and keep it secret. That can allow it to fester and grow.


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#215530 - 04/05/08 09:24 AM Re: Why do I seek out men when not attracted to th [Re: Freedom49]
des6263 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 09/15/06
Posts: 137
Loc: midwest, US
Quote:
[/quote]Counseling and telking about can relieve some of the desires but some rewireing may be in order if that does not work.[quote]


What exactly do you mean by rewiring and how is it accomplished?

_________________________
May the Flames of Truth Burn Bright

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#215990 - 04/06/08 09:19 PM Re: Why do I seek out men when not attracted to th [Re: Freedom49]
jamess_54321 Offline
New Here

Registered: 04/04/08
Posts: 2
I don't understand that response either. What do you mean that some rewiring may be needed, how can I do that?

thanks,


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#217083 - 04/10/08 02:28 PM Re: Why do I seek out men when not attracted to th [Re: jamess_54321]
piperlime Offline
New Here

Registered: 04/01/08
Posts: 4
Loc: Metro NY
This is my problem too. I was abused from 8 to 10 by a trusted adult. I am getting treatment for Sexual Adiction and am also talking to my therapist about these attractions to men. I am married with kids and love my wife, but compulsively need hookups with guys. I can't stop.

This looks like a good place to get some answers. Thanks guys


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#217095 - 04/10/08 03:08 PM Re: Why do I seek out men when not attracted to th [Re: piperlime]
Freedom49 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/30/07
Posts: 2723
Loc: Washington State
There has been some research done by an Australian Dr. Alan Meyer regarding brain chemistry and how we develope as sexual beings. This is as related to CSA and sexual addictions. In his research he has reached the conclusion that such patterns of behavior can be interrupted at the trigger point whether it be visual, mental fantasy, physicl triggers etc. and a new connection laid down through the acetylcholine between the brain cells that allows you to make healthier connections between the triggering event and te eventual resulting behavior.

It takes time and work. Like developing a muscle that has atrophied over time. Just like the physical muscle it can become stronger and can "rewire" that response to the triggers we were given in our abuse.

I know this works. I have used this method on myself for several bad habits and unacceptable behaviors like those you have listed in this thread. Took some time and I was not successful a lot at first but got stronger with practice. Most of us do this with other things in our life all the time but just do not realize it.


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#217275 - 04/11/08 08:42 AM Re: Why do I seek out men when not attracted to th [Re: Freedom49]
maxshame Offline
New Here

Registered: 04/10/08
Posts: 5
me too, i am hetero with wife and kids but relive the pain with porn and toys, trouble is i cant do it without being high on coke, horrible cycle,until i met my wife i sought out men to hurt me but i have fought that off. now its only a fantasy.told her last night how i left it behind and she said you were gay? she is fucking clueless,


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#347976 - 12/13/10 12:03 AM Re: Why do I seek out men when not attracted to th [Re: dgoods]
hurtn4yrs Offline


Registered: 11/28/10
Posts: 10
Loc: USA, NY
I would like to thank all of you for this frank discussion. I find it extremely inlightening, into the direction, my own fantasies have been taking me, for a while. I have been fantasizing that my own series of rapes,[that started at about age 7,by a male several years older, at the direction,and enforcement of a much older male] was a seduction, while alone, with the rapist. I was confused, why I was apparently, either subconciously, or conciously, trying to make it consentual. What testingWaters said feels right, it may feel better than the feelings of helplessness, and fear, I felt during my nightmare years!

thanks again
Bill

_________________________
91C35pT10Es21S1s13Ys1V9Or!

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#347981 - 12/13/10 07:49 AM Re: Why do I seek out men when not attracted to th [Re: hurtn4yrs]
Avery46 Offline


Registered: 09/23/10
Posts: 1243
Loc: USA
Hi, Bill.

Welcome to MS. You found a thread that was began sometime ago. I encourage you to keep reading. There is great writing here and lots of support for yourself.

It fits for you and me. I have discovered those triggers points in recovery - the original point via flashbacks. I have lived as a gay man believing my attraction to men were real but also was rejected by my ex-wife from 21years ago when I told her I was raped as a child. I lived an active gay lifestyle that was NOT about being gay but was about re-enacting the abuse.

Bill, thanks for speaking up about your truth.

Peace,
Donnie

_________________________
aka DJsport

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#348235 - 12/15/10 08:03 PM Re: Why do I seek out men when not attracted to th [Re: Avery46]
InsideTheWall Offline


Registered: 01/10/09
Posts: 282
DJ,

Thats a huge revelation man. Are you sure?


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#348329 - 12/16/10 06:56 PM Re: Why do I seek out men when not attracted to th [Re: Avery46]
Avery46 Offline


Registered: 09/23/10
Posts: 1243
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Avery46
I lived an active gay lifestyle that was NOT about being gay but was about re-enacting the abuse.


ITW,

NOT sure what your asking am I sure of. I am thinking it is related to the statement I made above. The sex that I have had with men since I came out as being gay - yes for me - for me - has been abusive of the worst kind in fact. I have bled for days - sometimes weeks - with the kind of act that was perpetrated on me. I am NOT claiming a victim BUT I am saying it is NOT the consenual violent sex that my gay friends believe in.

At first reading of your post to me, I was upset NOT sure what to say. After giving it sometime to calm down and think the possibilities through on what I would say, this is it.

If I am "off", please let me know.

Donnie-DJ

_________________________
aka DJsport

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#349411 - 12/31/10 01:48 PM Re: Why do I seek out men when not attracted to th [Re: Avery46]
ohiomike1965 Offline


Registered: 12/30/10
Posts: 4
Loc: Franklin, Ohio
I would like to thank everyone for their comments. I am new to the site and have a million questions but this is one of the two that are foremost in my mind.

I am 45 and got sober when I was 24. When I was about 9 months sober I did my 4th and 5th steps. My sponsor told me there were too many areas in my past that he had no experience with and suggested I seek couseling/therapy. I did.

I told the therapist about the abuse by my brother and sister and the lack of affection/nurturing by my parents. I told him about having been molested by a teacher when I was 13. Well, actually I told him it happened when I was 11 but that was because a few years earlier I was in therapy and when I told him I had been molested when I was 13, he told me pedaphiles are repulsed by pubic hair...which I took to mean I wasn't really molested. Somehow I guess I thought the story would be more believable if I said I was 11.

The molesting went on for a couple of years and usually happened multiple times in a day. I was so desparate for affection I would have sold my right arm for a hug. I loved all 3 of my abusers: the older brother I admired and wanted to be like, the older sister whom I could confide in, and the teacher who molested me but made me feel loved and wanted.

Well, the therapist had no background in childhood sexual abuse and told me I needed to accept my homosexuality. I didn't enjoy sex with men and couldn't understand why. My experiences with woman had been emotionally devastating: I believed I had commited date rape even though the sex was consensual. I cried all the time if I was intimate with a woman and I couldn't understand where the pain was coming from. I almost had a complete breakdown and spent my days immobolized in bed, requiring a cane when I tried to walk (couldn't stop my legs from just spazzing and jerking around). I drank and drugged, and then sought out men.

When I was with a man there was no emotional pain. Very little enjoyment, but at least I didn't break down and start sobbing. So, when the therapist said I needed to accept my homosexuality I figured he knew what he was talking about. I came to know a number of gay men as friends (non-sexual) but always felt different than them. I didn't feel or think about men like they did and that was obvious not only to me but to them. I just figured I was peculiar, but I knew I was gay: I did have fantasies about men and they were much more intense than fantasies about women.

Masturbating about going down on a guy has the same emotional intensity as rage or the mind-numbing urge that would take over after the first drink. The thoughts would become a force that just took over my mind though I usually did not act on them, beyond masturbating.

I did, however, seek out men to have sex with on a number of occasions, mostly during my drinking/drugging years. Usually I was just looking for someone to give me a blow job. I think this was mostly re-enacting the abuse except this time I was in control. I decided who and when. But I think there was also a lot of people pleasing in there as well.

The times I tried performing fellatio I found I wasn't really interested. It was no more interesting/exciting to me than having sex with a plant. I chalked it up to something related to the abuse. About a year sober I gave up on finding a man.

Well, 2o plus years later I discover that the abuse had much more of an impact on me than I ever thought. Only in the past few months have I actually begun to have an emotional response to the molesting. I had been having very strong thoughts/wishes of being romantically involved with a woman and starting a family but found this confusing. That's when the flood gates opened. I thought I was over the molesting because whenever I talked about it I was emotionless. Now I see more clearly has it has been the single greatest influencing factor in my life: it is the prism through which most everything has been focused.

I have read "Victims No Longer" by Lew and "Beyond Betrayal" by Gartner and now have a therapist who has an extensive background in working with survivors of childhood sexual abuse. We have only met three times so far but it has been more beneficial than all the other therapy I have had. It's refreshing to work with someone who knows the difference from his ass and a hole in the ground!

When I fanatasize about sex with a woman it is a gentle, caring thing where I care about my partner's physical and emotional enjoyment. When fantasizing about a man it is that rage-intensity feeling that numbs my brain and anesthetizes my thoughts. After masturbating to the thought of being with a woman I feel content and 'lighter', almost playful, and look forward to the prospect of building a relationship with a woman. After masturbating about a man I feel no emotion but have an overall feeling that I don't need anybody: I feel like I won but I couldn't say what it was I won. This has been quite disconcerting at times.

I went to a Sex Addicts Anonymous meeting recently and just about broke down. I had no idea where the emotion was coming from and just sat there in silence. When I thought of my sexual conduct over the years it dawned on me that I had been compulsively masturbating for 32 years. I felt that most of the sex I had with men was out of a desire to shame myself, to hurt myself for what I let happen. (True or not, that is what it FELT like at the meeting).

I left that meeting feeling that I have a lot of work to do. I shared my feelings with a recovering woman I have grown to trust over the years and broke down. I felt so broken.

I know so little about healthy sexuality and am more than a little confused. I tend to sexualize all friendships (usually just in my head, somewhere in there that little kid know's what these people really want). I suspect I am more straight than gay and that scares me. I'm not worried about having fantasies about men and acting on them (haven't done that in over 14 years). I'm worried about being with a woman and being that sobbing, pain filled boy. I think it would be hard to find a woman (at least in this part of the country) who would be open to the idea that the man in her life spent most of his years thinking he was gay. That's probably just BS. I think I'm really frightened to look deeper inside at that frightened, angry, confused boy. Part of me would rather not go down that path.

Just want to thank everyone for their comments. I feel a little less lost on this path.


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#349456 - 12/31/10 11:56 PM Re: Why do I seek out men when not attracted to th [Re: ohiomike1965]
Mountainous Buck Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/15/09
Posts: 1626
Loc: Minnesota
Hey ohiomike-
Welcome to MS
We share a lot-you and I-
Abuse, sexual identity confusion, compulsion,'and alcoholism/sobriety.

I'm active In SAA-that has helped give me clarity, honesty,integrity accountability, understanding and support. It has also given me a chance to discover healthy sexuality free from the confines of the past.

It's good to meet you, brother-best wishes for an actively healthy and wonderful 2011.

_________________________
We have to take responsibility for what we're not responsible for.

ďIt doesn't matter where you've come from,
It matters where you go" Frank Turner

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#351277 - 01/19/11 07:46 PM Re: Why do I seek out men when not attracted to th [Re: treadmill_guy]
surflife2007 Offline


Registered: 01/19/11
Posts: 43
Treadmill guy - I think my fiance is a few steps ahead of you. I recently found out that he has been down the road to being submissive and giving men oral that he met on craigslist. And from that discovery, he disclosed his CSA and also uses that not as an excuse, but as an explanation as to why he does what he does. He assures me he isn't gay. He loves women - but this part of him wants penis in his mouth and I assume he's trying to recreate the abuse in a controlled manner...like somone said above. So...since I found out - and since you can't unspill the milk...we've been trying to incorporate it into our bedroom time and my dildo has been REALLY fun for both of us...and my new black leather wardrobe is a lot of fun too. Maybe your wife might be open to that? Hell, I'd even be open to bringing someone else into our bedroom if it meant he wouldn't have to lie to me ever again...that's the part that hurt the most - the cheating aspect. But again, the circumstances are such that I was very understanding. Anyway, you're not alone...your wife loves you...open up to her and maybe see if there is something you can do together to satisfy your urges...although I'm no expert. I just hope I'm giving my man an outlet and that he doesn't feel like he has to be sneaky...
And a bonus for me is that our sex has never been better!


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#352670 - 02/02/11 10:45 PM Re: Why do I seek out men when not attracted to th [Re: ohiomike1965]
DougL Offline


Registered: 09/11/10
Posts: 11
Loc: Bradford, PA USA
I too have been going through the same pain. I have had fantasies about having sex with men for a long time. I have trouble in my relationships with women. I could never understand what was happening. I wanted to have a family and have children of my own. I will have to read the books you mentioned and hope they help. It is so great to be able to discuss these things in this group.


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#352793 - 02/04/11 01:01 PM Re: Why do I seek out men when not attracted to th [Re: ohiomike1965]
speyday Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/31/11
Posts: 45
Loc: Idaho


Originally Posted By: ohiomike1965
I thought I was over the molesting because whenever I talked about it I was emotionless. Now I see more clearly has it has been the single greatest influencing factor in my life: it is the prism through which most everything has been focused.



oMike - Your comment is powerful. I too thought that because thinking and talking about my past was emotionless, it was no longer an issue. Clearly, that was not the case for many of us.

Be well.
-mike

_________________________
To fish or not to fish? What a stupid question.
Real Man | Spey What?



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#354195 - 02/19/11 10:26 PM Re: Why do I seek out men when not attracted to th [Re: speyday]
DougL Offline


Registered: 09/11/10
Posts: 11
Loc: Bradford, PA USA
I really like what you said. I have been trying to say it for years but have been unable to find the words to express it. You hit it right on the nose.


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#354333 - 02/21/11 01:23 PM Re: Why do I seek out men when not attracted to th [Re: treadmill_guy]
alanhoops Offline


Registered: 02/21/11
Posts: 21
Treadmill Guy,

I agree with Lazarus to be very careful and make sure you stay faithful to your wife. Having sex with another man would be selfish as you would be hurting your wife and the other man, because you would just be using him to fulfill your fantasy. If your fantasy is only about performing oral sex on another guy it is probably related to the abuse where you are getting used again. It is important not to traumatize the little boy inside of you again. You may be more in control this time as an adult but it is the little boy who will be reliving a traumatic event. This new trauma might be too much for you to handle since it is now something you have initiated. Your attraction to a penis might be more of what it represents to you such as power, love, etc. that you think you will obtain if you suck on it.


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#354338 - 02/21/11 01:39 PM Re: Why do I seek out men when not attracted to th [Re: alanhoops]
Sailboat92 Offline


Registered: 02/21/11
Posts: 79
Loc: Ct
This has been a recurrent theme in my life- and I think it is an attempt to connect to someone that can comfort and protect me, as well as demonstrate all the external qualities and traits I lack in my own self- but because I was abused I sexualize it-
Have no idea what it would be like to have a guy friend as just that- it would help so much, but I'm ashamed tom admit that I have none

_________________________
I don't have one

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#354536 - 02/23/11 12:08 AM Re: Why do I seek out men when not attracted to th [Re: treadmill_guy]
Sailboat92 Offline


Registered: 02/21/11
Posts: 79
Loc: Ct
I do same- it all relates to abuse, the need to absorb the Masculinity of a man- as I never felt I had any-
I'm turned on by men, but when I think beyond the physical, it kinda goes nowhere.
I'm married with kids, my wife has strong suspicions, so I'm reliving my youth with mothers shame and guilt- seeking the one man who will protevt me and take care of me- well that person is me, but I needed and enacted my father

_________________________
I don't have one

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#380854 - 12/27/11 06:03 PM Re: Why do I seek out men when not attracted to th [Re: Sailboat92]
WriterKeith Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/30/10
Posts: 951
Loc: southern California
I am reading as much as I can about the many variations in the area of survivor symptoms and issues and I want to be sure I am understanding SSA issues correctly. It seems complex.

Am I correct to understand that there are distinct differences and many variations in male bonding, homosexuality, and same-sex attraction?

My perp (father) and one of my brothers (an angry and violent adult who was a childhood victim of my father) betrayed the entire family and all the descendants in devotion to a man my father took into his home (a financial predator). What kind of attraction to another man would it take for a man to physically assault his own relatives, including an 18-month old infant, just because the man told him to? Everyone...EVERYONE..is wondering if they are homosexual, but I doubt there is sex involved. My sociopath father has always viewed women, children, and pets as tools for his own pleasure. The brother I mentioned has a history of girlfriends who ended the relationship in fear of him, even going into hiding after he stalked them afterward.

What category would this behavior fall into? Where would it fall on the SSA scale?

_________________________
"A burned bridge can be a gift; it prevents us from returning to a place we should have never been."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5JfvAPZGjds

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#383459 - 01/25/12 07:31 PM Re: Why do I seek out men when not attracted to th [Re: WriterKeith]
AndrewT Offline


Registered: 09/12/11
Posts: 13
Loc: Seattle, WA
Yes there are many variations of male bonding and SSA, only one of which is actually homosexuality. For me, I was reenacting my abuse over and over, putting myself in a submissive position with an older man. Once I recognized that, processed it with my therapist, and resolved it internally (which took months of recovery work...) my SSA issues have pretty much disappeared.

The best resource I know of on this subject is the work of therapist Joe Kort. You can check out his web page at http://straightguise.com/default.asp?id=1288 He categorizes the different reasons that straight men have sex with men, gives therapeutic reasons for them and suggestions for finding help.




Edited by AndrewT (02/02/12 07:22 PM)
_________________________
I will be patient with myself and let myself heal from my abuse according Gods plan and not my own.

My story: http://tinyurl.com/AndrewTStory

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#383697 - 01/28/12 03:33 AM Re: Why do I seek out men when not attracted to th [Re: AndrewT]
1lifenow Offline


Registered: 03/07/11
Posts: 408
Loc: west coast
I agree, this is the whole point of this thread. why do men seek out men they are not attacted to? they do it to replay the scenario where it is not about the guy, its about the penis.

So there is no difference if a guy is attractive or not, its part of the pattern. Cuz i am sure most of us never thought of whether our perp(S) were attractive or not.

But what if we do notice the eyes, smile, muscles, basket? we fantasize about a guy cuz he turns us on , not cuz he is just a cock. Well thats when gay feelings are real and not about recreating the abuse. Doesnt have to be exclusively gay, if you get aroused by a hot woman just as easily then thats where you are.

But dont beat yourself up for seeking out men you dont have attraction for, its clearly that CSA and like andrewT said there are ways of resolving that. You are most likely a str8 guy in this imprinting pattern and the guilt is not necessary.

But if you are truly aroused by an especially good looking man, then its about the attraction and the identity that is part of you. You can either accept it and ease your pain or you can rail against the gods for making you that way. It doesnt matter tho in the end, the arousal will still be there, its part of normal human sexuality. And therefore, again the guilt is not necessary. And normal sexuality is a good thing if you just let it be. Especially for survirors. We need the closeness of the intimacy that was so long ago taken away.

_________________________
The need for love lies at the very foundation of human existence. Dalai Lama

WoR Barrie 2011

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#383732 - 01/28/12 05:18 PM Re: Why do I seek out men when not attracted to th [Re: 1lifenow]
EdfromNYC Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/18/10
Posts: 233
Loc: New York City
Quote:
But if you are truly aroused by an especially good looking man, then its about the attraction and the identity that is part of you. You can either accept it and ease your pain or you can rail against the gods for making you that way. It doesnt matter tho in the end, the arousal will still be there, its part of normal human sexuality.


I had a different experience. For me, I was physically attracted to some men but not really anymore. Occasionally, a fleeting idea or attraction might come up but its not the same. For me, something beneath the surface is driving and it shows up sometimes as sex drive but its not really what it is, for me.

I tried to accept it and that didn't work for me. Fighting didn't really work either. Time, patience and understanding and not acting out were keys for me.

Its a very complicated area that each man has to figure out for himself. Its a lot about personal values, intuition, awareness, self-knowledge, soul searching. I guess as many men are on here is how many different points of view there are on personal sexuality and identity.




Edited by EdfromNYC (01/28/12 05:19 PM)
_________________________
And more, much more, the heart may feel,
Than the pen may write or the lip reveal.
Winthrop Mackworth Praed

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#383733 - 01/28/12 05:58 PM Re: Why do I seek out men when not attracted to th [Re: 1lifenow]
westchesterguy Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/13/09
Posts: 421
Loc: Westchester County NY
Originally Posted By: 1lifenow
....But if you are truly aroused by an especially good looking man, then its about the attraction and the identity that is part of you....


i don't believe men, in this culture, understand what could trip an arousal by a good looking guy. the pressure is too great to ignore it - for ignoring or fighting "is cool," it is manly, strength, right, so says our societal norms.

what is the game of "gay chicken" all about...? the new popular fad with younger guys...who not only play but film it and post online for all to see. they can make out, get erect, and turn it all off with a simple laugh...'cause they aren't actually gay.

but what are they? if one doesn't agree to play he is "gay" and uncool.

are they just guys... who realize that men can indeed be turned on by any another living soul no matter which gender? or is it the middle finger to this whole society that oppresses male sexuality on purpose? or is it even more sinister... a way to control a guy who is gay or learn who was abused and who wasn't so they can avoid them in the future?


_________________________
Jeff

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#457442 - 12/26/13 05:21 PM Re: Why do I seek out men when not attracted to th [Re: roadrunner]
johndoe Offline


Registered: 11/15/13
Posts: 10
Loc: california
Originally Posted By: roadrunner
Guys,


Treadmill_Guy you seem to be talking about acting out - or thinking about acting out - when you say this:

Originally Posted By: treadmill_guy
I don't find men physically attractive. Women always draw my attention. But there is something about a man's penis that draws my interest and fantasies.


Part of the reason a survivor may feel this way has to do with control, as someone else has already said. As a boy you learned from abuse that you were helpless and powerless; the abuse involved loss of control. So in these fantasies you are creating scenarios were your control is restored.

You might ask why you would create a scenario in which you are still performing sexual acts reminiscent of the abuse. Again the answer lies in your youth. Abuse can leave a boy with no boundaries and feeling he is good only for what the abuser wants. Do you remember feeling like an empty shell with no "me" inside anymore?

You fantasize a sexual situation in which you are back in control, but the situation is one that reflects the negative feelings you learned as an abused boy.


It sends chills down my spine to read posts that hit home for me like this. Learning why I have the feelings and desires that I do I hope will help me in the healing process. This thread gives me enormous comfort knowing that I am not alone in these powerful impulses that i am experiencing. The last thing I want to do is ruin my marriage by going through with these impulses - and I have come very, very close on many occasions over the course of my marriage to giving in to these urges again.

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