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#175889 - 08/25/07 11:11 PM Re: To Catch a Predator - Rolling Stone Mag [Re: BJK]
Lazarus Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/01/07
Posts: 851
Loc: Below the radar, USA
Bryan,

I understand your dilemma and the pressures/urges you have to deal with. I applaud you for your success and your comittment. What you do with your life (and what you resist doing) is a true reflection of your character and of your worth as a human being.

But if you succumb to those urges, if your boy had been more persuasive and you had given in, you would be as guilty as any perp... maybe even more than some because you really know the hurt you would be causing. Understanding why, and feeling sympathy for your situation does not excuse anything. If your boy had begged for it, does not excuse anything. You are the adult, you have the experience and the intellect and the obligation to say 'NO' in the strongest terms possible.

Bryan, I'm not blaming you for your feelings; I think they are completely understandable. I have felt similar feelings. But thinking about something and actually doing something are two totally different things. If the guys on PJ had just talked about their fantasies, there would be little to prosecute them for (maybe contributing to the delinquency of a minor, or some such), but to actually arrange a meeting and show up with the intention to abuse a minor is tantamount to abuse. If it were you on the wrong side of that sting, I wouldn't have any sympathy for you either. I'm sorry you have to be on your guard and therefore might exclude yourself from some otherwise harmless and rewarding experiences, but if you can't control yourself, you are a danger to the children in our society and should be treated accordingly.

I will cry with you in relief that you didn't destroy two lives that night. I am proud of you. You have to stay firm in your committment not to act on this fantasy, or whatever it is. There is too much at stake to do otherwise, for you and for the children.

I know you are a good man and you wouldn't hurt anybody. This discussion was not about you in particular, but you showed us that our perps have their own deamons to deal with. I hope you will stay strong no matter what the temptation, because the bottom line is that there is no excuse for abusing a child. Not for you, and not for the guys on PJ who succumb to temptation. Whether you agree with the methods or not, the guys who failed the test and showed up for their 'appointments' are pedophiles, not only in spirit but in fact as well. They deserve society's wrath and all the pain that comes crashing down on them. And the fact that PJ broadcasts their humiliation may be purient, but maybe it will make some other people who might consider doing the same thing to think twice about it. I don't see how any of the guys who showed up can claim innocence. That is bullshit.

Bryan, I'm sorry. You have put a sympathietic human face on our abusers, and explained how they might have gotten where they were when they abused us. While I can feel sympathy for your struggle, I cannot feel any sympathy for the guys who failed the test that you passed. I also cannot tell you how proud, and grateful I am that you passed the test. The true test of a man is not in the obstacles he has faced, but in how he has overcome those obstacles. You have done well, my friend, and I wish you continued strength and courage.

With warmest regards,

Lazarus

_________________________
"That which does not kill us, surely makes us stonger." - Neitsche

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#175898 - 08/25/07 11:45 PM Re: To Catch a Predator - Rolling Stone Mag [Re: Lazarus]
Lazarus Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/01/07
Posts: 851
Loc: Below the radar, USA
Oh, and Larry; I appreciate the sensibility you always bring to a subject, this one included. When I was abused was before the Internet, so the circumstances aren't exactly the same, but I was abused by a stranger who might have had second thoughts if a show like Perverted Justice had been running on TV at the time. Maybe, maybe not.

I'm not advocating that we should take away anybody's civil rights; that's what the lawyers are for. The perps on PJ got themselves into this mess, and the criminal justice system will sort it all out. Whether it was a child or an adult posing as a child is a moot point to me; the perps THOUGHT they were talking to a child, and that's all that matters.

Everybody has choices to make. If you did take me out and get me drunk and put me into my car, you would be complicit but I would be guilty. I am an adult, and I am responsible for my actions. If I go to Decadence in New Orleans next weekend, and dress like a slut and act like a slut and someone mistakes me for a slut, who am I to blame?

One last point; many of these perps on PJ get off during their trials because well=intentioned juries are misled by smart lawyers into believing that the perp's rights were abused, and since there was no actual 'victim', that becomes the focal point of the trial. Don't tell me those guys were 'coerced' into doing something they wouldn't otherwise have done. The usual legalese regarding entrapment doesn't apply because a minor child is not legally capable of entrapping an adult. As adults, we are supposed to know better.

I guess that's all I have to say on the matter. I know some of us here will not agree, and it may be time to put this to rest and agree to disagree. I'm glad that there are people agruing both sides of this, because that's what makes this democracy work. I respect your right to disagree, and if you are more successful in convincing everyone that your opinion is more right than mine, I will also accept that. I have great respect for everyone who had contributed to this debate. We don't have to agree to get along and work towards our common goal.

Best regards,

Lazarus

_________________________
"That which does not kill us, surely makes us stonger." - Neitsche

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#175991 - 08/26/07 11:23 AM Re: To Catch a Predator - Rolling Stone Mag [Re: Lazarus]
shadowkid Offline
WARNING from ModTeam, September 2013: user "Shadowkid" was exposed as a hoaxer. His entire online persona and stories of sexual abuse were fiction. We encourage you not to become emotionally concerned by anything you see in any of his posts. Thank you
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/18/05
Posts: 2437
want to clarify ,the person who left the site did so long ago not cause of this thread and im getting out now cause nobody listens to what i say anyway except to point out that im just some angry guy that wants revenge. also im expected to understand that maybe all the guys that got caught in the sting were not pedos ,but no body wants to understand that most of the people who work at pj are people like us!fathers whose sons were destroyed just like we were and they had two choices ,kill the sick pigs that did it or do something like pj ,victims who have been powerless to do anything because of the PERPS NEED TREATMENT MENTALITY , working with law enforcement to put a dent in the fucking epedemic of abuse is not something to be ashamed of! do you believe that oh say the dallas police department ,asked pj to help to make money? to get fame?shit that donnt even make sense! and bj you didnt answer my question would you let me watch your kids? if i said i was a member of pj would i be booted from the site ?should i be? i did not misunderstand the comment about if the kid had been more persistent ,i appluad the fact that you resisted the urge ,but the statement made was if the kid had been more persistent i would have done it ,ie it would have been the kids fault ,that kind of thinking has got to change! and i want to point out that im not picking on any individual here ,im also surprised that out of 4000+ victims here only a few have weighed in on this subject,why ?i think its because being active in the prevention of child abuse is seen as something bad ,bj i think your courage and comitment to healing is amazing ,but dude you are one in a million for every guy that resists the urge there are 100 who dont .to me if i see an adult who has shown a desire to be with a child ,even gone so far as to try to meet ,and an 11 year old kid and both are drowning in a flood and i can only save one? well im going in after the kid .

_________________________
its not hard to fall
when you float like a cannonball - damien rice

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#175998 - 08/26/07 12:27 PM Re: To Catch a Predator - Rolling Stone Mag [Re: shadowkid]
WalkingSouth Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/30/05
Posts: 16265
I have no real sympathy for the men who get ensnared in PJ's net. I just wish PJ would concentrate their efforts where the problem really lies.

In agreement with Larry, I believe they are skating on the razors edge of the law. Their skate often falls on the wrong side of it, and they probably loose or will loose a substantial portion of their convictions as a result. How much better would it be if they operated totally within the law and were able to have a near 100% conviction rate with little or no overturn on appeal? In essence much of the money poured into this project is being wasted when it would not have to be. To me that is a travesty. I'd much rather see greater return for the dollars spent.

_________________________
“Life’s journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting ‘Holy ____…! What a ride!’” ~Hunter S. Thompson

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#176009 - 08/26/07 01:27 PM Re: To Catch a Predator - Rolling Stone Mag [Re: WalkingSouth]
gay30something Offline
New Here

Registered: 08/12/07
Posts: 26
Loc: New England, USA
They obviously have a good intention, which is to stop people from raping young girls.

But the show-biz aspect gets the best of the show. Who knows, also, how much NBC edits things for drama.
Sometimes vital things may be lost in the editing room as well.

_________________________
gay30something

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#176194 - 08/27/07 01:47 AM Re: To Catch a Predator - Rolling Stone Mag [Re: shadowkid]
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
Adam,

Originally Posted By: shadowkid
im getting out now cause nobody listens to what i say anyway except to point out that im just some angry guy that wants revenge.


Personally speaking, I don't think of you in this way at all. I see you as a passionate and committed advocate for CSA victims and survivors and I think that's great. Yes, you are angry, but you have a right to that anger and I don't think anyone is denying that.

But I don't see that anger as defining you. What defines you as a survivor, so far as I can see without ever having met you, is your compassion for innocent kids, your integrity and honesty about who you are and what you think, and your sense of humor.

Actually I don't think anyone else posting in this thread sees you as an angry revenge-seeker either. We have differences of opinion, of course, but that's to be expected on any crucial topic.

At the end of the day, Adam, we are all, as I said, on the same side and want the same thing: safety for kids and justice for those who have been abused. We may differ on how to get from A to B, but we don't differ on the need to get there.

Much love,
Larry

PS: My kids are all grown up now, but if they were still little I would not only allow you to babysit them, I would ask you to do so and consider myself lucky if you agreed. \:\)



_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

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#176196 - 08/27/07 01:53 AM Re: To Catch a Predator - Rolling Stone Mag [Re: Lazarus]
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
Ric,

Originally Posted By: Lazarus
When I was abused was before the Internet, so the circumstances aren't exactly the same, but I was abused by a stranger who might have had second thoughts if a show like Perverted Justice had been running on TV at the time. Maybe, maybe not.


Good point. I didn't think of that, and of course, most of us would have been abused before the time of the Internet. I would just ask, then, if there are any others among us who were introduced into abuse by strangers.

Much love,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

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#176201 - 08/27/07 02:08 AM Re: To Catch a Predator - Rolling Stone Mag [Re: healingpartner]
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
Lorie,

Originally Posted By: healingpartner
Intellectually I understand what you are saying Larry. But I guess I will simply have to say I respectfully disagree. You will have your opinion and I will have mine.

I still love and respect you, but can't agree. I will no longer visit this thread as I feel it has run its course for me.

I was going to write more, but I need to not throw gas on the fire.


Well, I respect your view as well and I understand what you're saying and why you feel as you do. Disagreement on a loaded issue is always going to occur, I think, and in fact it's the honest exchange of views that gets us somewhere new, to something better. Contributing to a discussion isn't throwing gas on the fire just because the discussion is a passionate one. If you have more to say I hope you will post it.

Much love,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

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#176261 - 08/27/07 01:01 PM Re: To Catch a Predator - Rolling Stone Mag [Re: roadrunner]
gay30something Offline
New Here

Registered: 08/12/07
Posts: 26
Loc: New England, USA
Article in New York Times that shows advertisers are staying away from To Catch a Predator...
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/27/business/media/27predator.html?_r=1&oref=slogin

_________________________
gay30something

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#176269 - 08/27/07 01:35 PM Re: To Catch a Predator - Rolling Stone Mag [Re: gay30something]
Hauser Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/12/05
Posts: 2962
Loc: United States
All this arguing over the legal aspects would be a moot point if the police weren't involved in this. If PJ only used public exposure and shame, and ran the show JUST LIKE THEY DO NOW, without any police or court time being used up, they would accomplish just as much, I think.


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