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#172423 - 08/10/07 03:44 PM this place
jessedawg Offline
Guest

Registered: 07/17/07
Posts: 345
Loc: New York
this place makes me sick, not the people or the posts or anything like that, but all the hurt, all the people who were hurt so goddamn bad for no reason, no good reason at all, I was starting to feel good about not being alone but honestly I wish I was the only one who ever had to go through anything like this, I wish I was the only one who ever had to feel this way.

_________________________
Firefighters - your worst nightmare is just another day at the office.

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#172426 - 08/10/07 03:48 PM Re: this place [Re: jessedawg]
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
Jesse,

It is rough indeed to come in here and see all the many ways so many guys were hurt as defenseless innocent kids. But look at it this way perhaps. What you are seeing here are the guys who have got it together to do something about it. We are all here to talk, trade ideas and support each other.

There will never be an end to catastrophic hurt in the world. But it's good to see that there are those who are willing not only to fight back for themselves, but also reach out to others as they heal.

Much love,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

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#172427 - 08/10/07 03:51 PM Re: this place [Re: roadrunner]
jessedawg Offline
Guest

Registered: 07/17/07
Posts: 345
Loc: New York
its a good way to look at it, thanks for pointing that out.

_________________________
Firefighters - your worst nightmare is just another day at the office.

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#172429 - 08/10/07 03:54 PM Re: this place [Re: jessedawg]
emptydreamer Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/19/07
Posts: 276
Loc: Midwest USA
jessedawg,

I can certainly relate to the "sick' feeling associated with abuse.

I find myself wishing that everyone else didn't have to be here either, but you know what they say about wishing in one hand, and.......I'm sure you've heard it before.

Wishing is great, but when it comes right down to it, we have to deal with reality. The reality that there are "sick" people in this world who do "sick" things.

That is what I choose to feel "sick" about. Not this place, not the people here, but the "sick" animals that cause anyone to be in a place like this to begin with.

The reality is, we can continue to go through life wounded, and choose to do nothing, or we can make the choice to seek out and make use of every possible tool, or chance, to have a happier more fulfilling life from today forward.

I understand the frustration you feel, I feel it to, but in the end, we have to do what we can to take care of ourselves. We need to be able to help ourselves, to have any hope of ever being able to really help anyone else.

That is what brought me here, and that is what is keeping me here too.

Best wishes and warmest regards,
Scott

_________________________
I'm here for a reason. Failure is not an option.

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#172430 - 08/10/07 03:57 PM Re: this place [Re: emptydreamer]
Frog Offline
Guest

Registered: 08/05/07
Posts: 291
Loc: Arizona
Atleast we can FINALLY talk to someone about the crap we
went thru and what we continue to go thru daily...please
stick around we need you as much as you need us...together
we can and will get thru this...

_________________________
A Native American elder once described his own inner struggles in this manner: "Inside of me there are two dogs. One of the dogs is mean and evil. The other dog is good. The mean dog fights the good dog all the time." When asked which dog wins, he reflected for a moment, "The one I feed the most."

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#172436 - 08/10/07 04:15 PM Re: this place [Re: roadrunner]
Muldoon Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/30/02
Posts: 1428
Loc: St Paul MN
Jesse , yes this place is full of guys who have been hurt but have reached out to find help. Today guys have this place to come to in the hope of changing thier lives. It does my heart good to see news guys coming here, because

This Place

will help.

Tom

_________________________
Teach the Children to Never Hide in the Silence

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#172442 - 08/10/07 04:49 PM Re: this place [Re: jessedawg]
frost Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/15/07
Posts: 1377
Loc: Eh?
Now that I've been here for a while and have turned a few stones in my own life, I feel sick at the thought of how many abuse survivors are out there that haven't signed up for this site yet. It's troubling to think there are still so many out there that are struggling alone with this.

Glad you're here jessedawg, keep posting.
~B

_________________________
Boom!

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#172443 - 08/10/07 04:53 PM Re: this place [Re: frost]
hideout Offline
Guest

Registered: 08/09/07
Posts: 84
Loc: michigan
i was in that situation just yesterday frost


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#172444 - 08/10/07 04:54 PM Re: this place [Re: frost]
Frog Offline
Guest

Registered: 08/05/07
Posts: 291
Loc: Arizona
4416 Members seems such a low number..this cannot be even
remotely close to the number of survivors...If it is
then great, but if it isn't then it could explain behaviors
in the male population that I have witnessed

_________________________
A Native American elder once described his own inner struggles in this manner: "Inside of me there are two dogs. One of the dogs is mean and evil. The other dog is good. The mean dog fights the good dog all the time." When asked which dog wins, he reflected for a moment, "The one I feed the most."

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#172445 - 08/10/07 04:56 PM Re: this place [Re: Frog]
hideout Offline
Guest

Registered: 08/09/07
Posts: 84
Loc: michigan
what do you mean?


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#172447 - 08/10/07 05:05 PM Re: this place [Re: hideout]
Frog Offline
Guest

Registered: 08/05/07
Posts: 291
Loc: Arizona
There are only 4416 Members registered on here...
If this number is realistically close in the number of males
that have survived CSA then we are in good shape as
a society in treating and preventing this stuff from happening.

If it isn't even close to the number of actual survivors
then goes along way to explain what
I witness in behaviors daily, in the all male shop I work
in, that border on screaming for help...they act out
in inappropiate ways... and I see them taking the same actions
I have in the past to every day situations...

_________________________
A Native American elder once described his own inner struggles in this manner: "Inside of me there are two dogs. One of the dogs is mean and evil. The other dog is good. The mean dog fights the good dog all the time." When asked which dog wins, he reflected for a moment, "The one I feed the most."

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#172469 - 08/10/07 06:42 PM Re: this place [Re: Frog]
BJK Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/02/07
Posts: 1526
I've read some disturbing statistics regarding childhood sexual abuse that make me feel sick as well, and I think Jessiedawg started an outstanding thread.

One out of three girls and one out of six boys is a victim of childhood sexual abuse.

I'm not going to dwell upon any of the other statistics I have come across because it is just too much to take in at one time. Just looking at the above numbers makes me cringe. It makes me sick. It makes me want to do something.

I have found myself looking at every child I see on a day to day basis and wondering....is she the one in three? Is he the one in six? It's too much for me to handle right now, so I am restricting my contact with kids to only the ones who truly mean something to me in my life. I'm hoping I can eventually do something to help the one in six...the one in three. I'm not nearly emotionally ready for that yet.

My therapist tells me I need to join a big brother program. We've spoken at length about it, and we've come to the conclusion that I'm not ready for that yet. I'm told that these programs tend to pair kids together with adults who come from similar backgrounds. When it comes down to it, I don't think I could listen to a little kid tell me that he is a victim of sexual abuse without crying. That's not what a kid in the big brother program needs, I'm afraid.

On a message board like this one, though, my tears are hidden behind a monitor.

Bryan

_________________________
Revenge is nothing more than another way of perpetuating abuse.

What the world needs now
Is some new words of wisdom
Like la la la la la la la la la.
-David Lowery

Having a friend who will keep a secret for you is worthless compared to a friend who won't keep a secret from you.

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#172477 - 08/10/07 06:59 PM Re: this place [Re: BJK]
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
Bryan,

Originally Posted By: BJK
One out of three girls and one out of six boys is a victim of childhood sexual abuse.


It's sobering to think of what that means: 5-8 boys on the baseball or football team at school or in the local Boy Scout troop. Maybe 4-5 in almost any class taught in a high school, and at least that many in the school chorus.

Originally Posted By: BJK
My therapist tells me I need to join a big brother program. We've spoken at length about it, and we've come to the conclusion that I'm not ready for that yet. I'm told that these programs tend to pair kids together with adults who come from similar backgrounds. When it comes down to it, I don't think I could listen to a little kid tell me that he is a victim of sexual abuse without crying. That's not what a kid in the big brother program needs, I'm afraid.


I think you're right to be cautious about this kind of thing. I think we need to look after ourselves first, not out of selfishness, but because in order to give strength to others you have to have it for yourself already - with LOTS of reserves!

Much love,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

Top
#172484 - 08/10/07 07:12 PM Re: this place [Re: roadrunner]
Frog Offline
Guest

Registered: 08/05/07
Posts: 291
Loc: Arizona
Those numbers are scary....

Maybe that is why I left Youth Pastoring and quit
coaching Youth Soccer...maybe subconsciously I KNEW
what was going on in their lives and I ran...don't know
if that explains it or not, but I really did enjoy
helping those youth learn new tasks seeing them grow
in a healthy outlet...who knows maybe GOD does...one day
when I'm FIXED I can return to those things that
truly brought me joy...maybe one day...maybe...

_________________________
A Native American elder once described his own inner struggles in this manner: "Inside of me there are two dogs. One of the dogs is mean and evil. The other dog is good. The mean dog fights the good dog all the time." When asked which dog wins, he reflected for a moment, "The one I feed the most."

Top
#172496 - 08/10/07 07:36 PM Re: this place [Re: roadrunner]
BJK Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/02/07
Posts: 1526
Originally Posted By: roadrunner
I think you're right to be cautious about this kind of thing. I think we need to look after ourselves first, not out of selfishness, but because in order to give strength to others you have to have it for yourself already - with LOTS of reserves!


So true, Larry, and I know this because playing the "victim" was just another one of the ways my mother abused me. It's something I need to be so very careful of.

Bryan

_________________________
Revenge is nothing more than another way of perpetuating abuse.

What the world needs now
Is some new words of wisdom
Like la la la la la la la la la.
-David Lowery

Having a friend who will keep a secret for you is worthless compared to a friend who won't keep a secret from you.

Top
#172502 - 08/10/07 07:46 PM Re: this place [Re: Frog]
BJK Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/02/07
Posts: 1526
I coached a little league team for two years when I was 18-19. It was a blast in so many ways. I didn't understand why back then, but I quit coaching after my second year because there were just too many triggers.

Bryan

_________________________
Revenge is nothing more than another way of perpetuating abuse.

What the world needs now
Is some new words of wisdom
Like la la la la la la la la la.
-David Lowery

Having a friend who will keep a secret for you is worthless compared to a friend who won't keep a secret from you.

Top
#172512 - 08/10/07 08:11 PM Re: this place **Possible Triggers** [Re: BJK]
WalkingSouth Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/30/05
Posts: 16264
I did a little research and came up with the following article quoting statistics on CSA. I thought it might be good to have some actual documentation behind the statistics being discussed.

Quote:
* PREVALENCE is the percentage of the population that is affected by child sexual abuse; the general existence of child sexual abuse.
* CONSEQUENCE is the impact that child sexual abuse has on a victim/survivor and on our society over time.
* Sexual abuse touches every life when it leads to losses of trust, decreases in self esteem, and development of shame, guilt and depression.
* Sexual abuse touches every life when it leads to eating disorders, substance abuse, suicide, promiscuity/prostitution, and other psychobehavioral issues;

The statistics are shocking

* 1 in 4 girls is sexually abused before the age of 18.
* 1 in 6 boys is sexually abused before the age of 18.
* 1 in 5 children are solicited sexually while on the internet.
* Nearly 70% of all reported sexual assaults (including assaults on adults) occur to children ages 17 and under.
* An estimated 39 million survivors of childhood sexual abuse exist in America today.

Even within the walls of their own homes, children are at risk for sexual abuse

* 30-40% of victims are abused by a family member.
* Another 50% are abused by someone outside of the family whom they know and trust.
* Approximately 40% are abused by older or larger children whom they know.
* Therefore, only 10% are abused by strangers.

Sexual abuse can occur at all ages, probably younger than you think

* The median age for reported abuse is 9 years old.
* More than 20% of children are sexually abused before the age of 8.
* Nearly 50% of all victims of forcible sodomy, sexual assault with an object, and forcible fondling are children under 12.

Most children don't tell even if they have been asked

* Evidence that a child has been sexually abused is not always obvious, and many children do not report that they have been abused.
* Over 30% of victims never disclose the experience to ANYONE.
* Young victims may not recognize their victimization as sexual abuse.
* Almost 80% initially deny abuse or are tentative in disclosing. Of those who do disclose, approximately 75% disclose accidentally. Additionally, of those who do disclose, more than 20% eventually recant even though the abuse occurred.
* Fabricated sexual abuse reports constitute only 1% to 4% of all reported cases. Of these reports, 75% are falsely reported by adults and 25% are reported by children. Children only fabricate ˝% of the time.


Consequences of child sexual abuse begin affecting children and families immediately. They also affect society in innumerable and negative ways. These effects can continue throughout the life of the survivor so the impact on society for just one survivor continues over multiple decades. Try to imagine the impact of 39 million survivors.

Health and/or Behavioral Problems:

* The way a victim's family responds to abuse plays an important role in how the incident affects the victim.
* Sexually abused children who keep it a secret or who "tell" and are not believed are at greater risk than the general population for psychological, emotional, social, and physical problems often lasting into adulthood.
* Children who have been victims of sexual abuse are more likely to experience physical health problems (e.g., headaches).
* Victims of child sexual abuse report more symptoms of PTSD, more sadness, and more school problems than non-victims.
* Victims of child sexual abuse are more likely to experience major depressive disorder as adults.
* Young girls who are sexually abused are more likely to develop eating disorders as adolescents.
* Adolescent victims of violent crime have difficulty in the transition to adulthood, are more likely to suffer financial failure and physical injury, and are at risk to fail in other areas due to problem behaviors and outcomes of the victimization.

Drug and/or Alcohol Problems:

* Victims of child sexual abuse report more substance abuse problems. 70-80% of sexual abuse survivors report excessive drug and alcohol use.
* Young girls who are sexually abused are 3 times more likely to develop psychiatric disorders or alcohol and drug abuse in adulthood, than girls who are not sexually abused.
* Among male survivors, more than 70% seek psychological treatment for issues such as substance abuse, suicidal thoughts and attempted suicide. Males who have been sexually abused are more likely to violently victimize others.

Teenage Pregnancy and Promiscuity:

* Children who have been victims of sexual abuse exhibit long-term and more frequent behavioral problems, particularly inappropriate sexual behaviors.
* Women who report childhood rape are 3 times more likely to become pregnant before age 18.
* An estimated 60% of teen first pregnancies are preceded by experiences of molestation, rape, or attempted rape. The average age of their offenders is 27 years.
* Victims of child sexual abuse are more likely to be sexually promiscuous.
* More than 75% of teenage prostitutes have been sexually abused.

Crime:

* Adolescents who suffer violent victimization are at risk for being victims or perpetrators of felony assault, domestic violence, and property offense as adults.
* Nearly 50% of women in prison state that they were abused as children.
* Over 75% of serial rapists report they were sexually abused as youngsters.

Most perpetrators don't molest only one child if they are not reported and stopped.

* Nearly 70% of child sex offenders have between 1 and 9 victims; at least 20% have 10 to 40 victims.
* An average serial child molester may have as many as 400 victims in his lifetime.

Statistic References


While these statistics can be discouraging, even overwhelming, the men here on the MaleSurvivor website are some of the most passionate and caring men I've ever been associated with and I count it an honor to be associated with you. All of us who are able to begin to speak up regarding our persoanl heartache can help to change these statistics. Even if it helps just one child we've made a difference.

Lots of love,

John



Edited by walkingsouth (08/10/07 08:11 PM)
_________________________
“Life’s journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting ‘Holy ____…! What a ride!’” ~Hunter S. Thompson

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#172513 - 08/10/07 08:17 PM Re: this place **Possible Triggers** [Re: WalkingSouth]
BJK Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/02/07
Posts: 1526
John,

Thank you for posting that article, but I want to point out one other thing.

Every person who comes to this website is doing his or her own part to cease the perpetuation of the cycle of abuse. Not all abuse is overt, and many survivors can attest to the fact that the most influential of all abuse is actually covert (or emotional).

This is powerful stuff. More than one child is being saved by this website. Probably, in the long run, we are looking at numerous children per day. I can speak for myself in this regard. Though I can say with almost absolute certainty that I would never touch a child in a harmful way, the possibility of me emotionally harming a child because of the perpetuation of the cycle of covert abuse was a very real probability. That cycle had just started when I decided to get help.

Bryan

_________________________
Revenge is nothing more than another way of perpetuating abuse.

What the world needs now
Is some new words of wisdom
Like la la la la la la la la la.
-David Lowery

Having a friend who will keep a secret for you is worthless compared to a friend who won't keep a secret from you.

Top
#172550 - 08/11/07 12:00 AM Re: this place **Possible Triggers** [Re: BJK]
mogigo Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/24/07
Posts: 1331
Loc: Colorado
I wrote this to a Brother when he was having the same feelings of a never ending line of us. I just thought it was pertinent and wanted to share.

When I was on that first site, it seemed like a new guy showed up everyday. There really wasn't many people there and I did what I could to make them feel supported and welcome, but I think most of the survivor's got chased away, probably by the same reason I left, they ran into an asshole like I did. The new guys were usually gone in a short time too since it was really just me. I can see how they still felt so alone with just me trying to make them feel supported. When I left I would occasionally drop back in just to see if anything was happening, I had talked to the author of the site, she runs a womens site mainly but she opened a men's side hoping to offer the same support for men that she had done for the women. The womens site is really good, lots of posting and support there. Anyway my point, Whenever I'd go back to check in I could see that there was always some new members that had come and gone, and I really started to get that feeling like you were having, why the fuck is this happening, why does this this site have to even exist. I really had that feeling of a losing battle. How come the line of us needing these sites didn't end. Overwhelmed again. I get that alot eh. I went over to my other site and was talking about how I was feeling with a guy there and he was older, but he said "you know Mike when I started looking for support these sites were actually unheard of, now there's so much more awareness of our needs, there are sites and services available, obviously not enough yet and our issues really aren't that accepted yet but compared to what it was when I started we've come light years. We are winning the battle , the perps are losing ground and we just have to keep going, eventually our side will win. We can't lose, we're united and were fighting for what's right, they're just single evil people and the only reason they even have any power is because of how they've managed to keep everything hidden for so long. The word is getting out now, by me and you and all the rest of us standing up for ourselves. They don't stand a chance, we just have to be strong in the face of the casualties, we'll love them and support them, no man left behind with us. They get to rot in there jail cells all by themselves with not an ally in the world. They're too cowardly and selfish to support each other. It's a war were winning, make no mistake.

Stay strong
Mike

_________________________
Thriving

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#172562 - 08/11/07 03:43 AM Re: this place **Possible Triggers** [Re: mogigo]
Muldoon Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/30/02
Posts: 1428
Loc: St Paul MN
Originally Posted By: mogigo
but he said "you know Mike when I started looking for support these sites were actually unheard of, now there's so much more awareness of our needs, there are sites and services available, obviously not enough yet and our issues really aren't that accepted yet but compared to what it was when I started we've come light years. We are winning the battle


I agree with him we have come light years. When I first came here it was full of guys that have been Hiding in the Silence most of thier lifes. We didn't have anywhere to get help all those years. Most all of us where in our 30's 40's and 50's.

It was almost unheard of to see a younger guy under thrity here. I have been here since 2002 and we have truly traveled light years and now I see about 50% of the new guys are in thier teens and 20's. We are now helping 5 generations of men heal.

It is a big job but this place can change the world, one survivor at a time.

Tom

_________________________
Teach the Children to Never Hide in the Silence

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#172573 - 08/11/07 08:25 AM Re: this place **Possible Triggers** [Re: Muldoon]
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
Tom,

I remember when I first came here in May 2005 there were only THREE active teenagers: Charlie (14), Kevin (16) and of course Nyjah (then 13). Now look at us! It's so cool to see how guys of all ages feel comfortable here.

Much love,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

Top
#172927 - 08/13/07 08:12 AM Re: this place **Possible Triggers** [Re: roadrunner]
jessedawg Offline
Guest

Registered: 07/17/07
Posts: 345
Loc: New York
scary stats, everytime we get a tone I think to myself this is the one thats gonna make me snap because we'll get called to someones apartment building where some idiot left his toaster oven on and passed out and we'll find some little kid or kids in some shit hole apartment who are abused, neglected, living with rats, etc. They day I walk into that situation is the day I go to jail I guess because I dont think I could hold myself back, plus I carry a big axe lol. When I was 13 or 14 I never considered the fact that I might be able to tell anyone, I was way too brainwashed by that point to think anyone would care or to think I had any right or reason to complain or tell. I figured I just deserved it. If this place was around back then I wouldnt have even dared to come here, but I feel some regret, Im 19 now and I havent really dealt with any of it until now, I probably could have saved myself a few years of anxiety and failed suicide attempts. oh well. Im glad this place is here and Im sick that it has to be.

_________________________
Firefighters - your worst nightmare is just another day at the office.

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#172956 - 08/13/07 10:06 AM Re: this place **Possible Triggers** [Re: jessedawg]
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
Jesse,

Please remember always that everything you are doing in your recovery you are doing at the first possible moment. Coming here when you were 15? Or 17? Or 18? You weren't ready. Now you are. Talk when you were 13 or 14? You have the answer yourself:

Originally Posted By: jessedawg
When I was 13 or 14 I never considered the fact that I might be able to tell anyone, I was way too brainwashed by that point to think anyone would care or to think I had any right or reason to complain or tell. I figured I just deserved it.


But now you know better and you are stronger, and here you are.

Abused neglected kids in some rat-infested shithole? Yep. I bet you will encounter that and worse. But you won't swing an ax at someone - I bet you will just scoop up those kids and get them out.

Much love,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

Top
#172957 - 08/13/07 10:08 AM Re: this place **Possible Triggers** [Re: roadrunner]
hideout Offline
Guest

Registered: 08/09/07
Posts: 84
Loc: michigan
would be saving some kids lives too


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#172961 - 08/13/07 10:27 AM Re: this place **Possible Triggers** [Re: hideout]
jessedawg Offline
Guest

Registered: 07/17/07
Posts: 345
Loc: New York
right, maybe I can save my own too

_________________________
Firefighters - your worst nightmare is just another day at the office.

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#172962 - 08/13/07 10:30 AM Re: this place **Possible Triggers** [Re: jessedawg]
hideout Offline
Guest

Registered: 08/09/07
Posts: 84
Loc: michigan
\:\)
im going to bed, or at least going to try to close my eyes for more than 5 seconds


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#172965 - 08/13/07 10:36 AM Re: this place **Possible Triggers** [Re: hideout]
jessedawg Offline
Guest

Registered: 07/17/07
Posts: 345
Loc: New York
good luck \:\)

_________________________
Firefighters - your worst nightmare is just another day at the office.

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