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#172590 - 08/11/07 11:04 AM Re: Therapists? [Re: Ken Singer, LCSW]
Frog Offline
Guest

Registered: 08/05/07
Posts: 291
Loc: Arizona
Thank you Ken and RoadRunner...I will entertain this
a little more and possibly consider taking on one
of these T's w/ a similar approach as you have described...
Again Thank you...

_________________________
A Native American elder once described his own inner struggles in this manner: "Inside of me there are two dogs. One of the dogs is mean and evil. The other dog is good. The mean dog fights the good dog all the time." When asked which dog wins, he reflected for a moment, "The one I feed the most."

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#172593 - 08/11/07 11:12 AM Re: Therapists? [Re: Frog]
ttoon Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 06/19/07
Posts: 977
Frog,

All of that being said...and it certainly sounds cool...I wouldn't see a therapist that treats abusers either. Beyond the moral or ethical considerations...wouldn't ya always be wondering if the guy going in or coming out before or after you was an abuser? Or, would they be wondering if I was?

Nope...thank you very much...not me...you get to choose, you get to decide...if you do not like the color of the guys shoes you get to decide what you want or don't.

Ya don't get to work both sides of the fence...I think your original assesment was accurate.


Dave

_________________________
checkin out for a few weeks... whistle
02/07/09

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#172595 - 08/11/07 11:15 AM Re: Therapists? [Re: ttoon]
Frog Offline
Guest

Registered: 08/05/07
Posts: 291
Loc: Arizona
Originally Posted By: ttoon
Frog,

Beyond the moral or ethical considerations...wouldn't ya always be wondering if the guy going in or coming out before or after you was an abuser? Or, would they be wondering if I was?


WOW....I was thinking about that very same thought when I started
writing this thread...

_________________________
A Native American elder once described his own inner struggles in this manner: "Inside of me there are two dogs. One of the dogs is mean and evil. The other dog is good. The mean dog fights the good dog all the time." When asked which dog wins, he reflected for a moment, "The one I feed the most."

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#172599 - 08/11/07 11:32 AM Re: Therapists? [Re: Frog]
shadowkid Offline
WARNING from ModTeam, September 2013: user "Shadowkid" was exposed as a hoaxer. His entire online persona and stories of sexual abuse were fiction. We encourage you not to become emotionally concerned by anything you see in any of his posts. Thank you
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/18/05
Posts: 2437
what bothers me about this is ,do i want to open myself up to a t who can then use what i told him to deal with a perp? like telling the perp that the thing that scares victims the most is confronting the perp? or telling them the things that trigger victims?it gives me the feeling that we are like lab rats being studied to help the very people who caused it to begin with. if an offender requests therapy and hes in jail well he gets therapy and its free!or even worse its paid for by people like us! saw a post here today where the guy cant even find a therapist that deals with male csa. seems like there is a hell of a lot more help for the stinking bastards that hurt us than there is for us. im not attacking anyone that tries to help perps ,but i do believe that they cant be helped ,they are the best actors and they can play people including therapists ,deep inside of them is an animal and no one can get to that part of them .i mean cmon these people know its wrong they know they can be caught and locked up ,does that stop them ?no cause they are not normal they aint gonna respond to anything normal people can do . they perpertrate the most horrible crime ever and if they dont care when they are doing it they aint gonna care later that they did it.how does a t decide that a perp is reformed?that he wont offend again?just because he says so?

_________________________
its not hard to fall
when you float like a cannonball - damien rice

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#172600 - 08/11/07 11:37 AM Re: Therapists? [Re: shadowkid]
ttoon Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 06/19/07
Posts: 977
Uh-huh,

Rape used to be a Capital Offense...it still should be...there is no reform...no punitive action required...only corrective...and my opinion on that would take me outside the boundaries of this particular forum.

I agree with you adam, wholeheartedly.

Dave

_________________________
checkin out for a few weeks... whistle
02/07/09

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#172601 - 08/11/07 11:41 AM Re: Therapists? [Re: Frog]
WalkingSouth Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/30/05
Posts: 16264
Frog,

I know how triggering this issue can be, and it may take you a while to work through it. Your own sense of safety is VERY important, after all. As kids we learned the unfortunate lesson that our safety didn't matter, that our needs didn't matter, the only thing that mattered was the needs of the pervert. It's not surprising that you would be feeling the way you do on this subject.

If I were in your shoes and could only find a therapist who also treated offenders, I think I'd be desperate enough for treatment that I'd bite the bullet and start therapy. In fact my current T treats offenders. I didn't know it when I started, but found out later in the process. The fact that he treats offenders I believe actually makes him more highly qualified to help me out because he has been able to explain things to me in a way that perhaps another T would not be able to.

Also, he never treats offenders in the same time blocks as victims, ie different days of the week or victims in the AM and offenders in the PM with a break between. He's VERY cognizant of the victims need for an atmosphere of safety. Also, since he also treats adolescent victims he cannot have them in that close proximity to offenders because of the parole conditions placed on some offenders.

Bottom line is that I'd urge you not to necessarily turn down the possibility of therapy over this issue, but also to take your time in trying to locate a therapist who you are comfortable with. You'll eventually find the right match tho you may have to kiss a few toads first.

Lots of love,

John


_________________________
“Life’s journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting ‘Holy ____…! What a ride!’” ~Hunter S. Thompson

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#172602 - 08/11/07 11:48 AM Re: Therapists? [Re: WalkingSouth]
shadowkid Offline
WARNING from ModTeam, September 2013: user "Shadowkid" was exposed as a hoaxer. His entire online persona and stories of sexual abuse were fiction. We encourage you not to become emotionally concerned by anything you see in any of his posts. Thank you
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/18/05
Posts: 2437
i dont wanna even sit in the same room where these animals have sat ,was some perp sitting in the chair that im in now? if a t tries to explain why a perp would molest all its doing is making excuses for their actions. nothing that comes from reasearch on perps is worth a damn, they are experts at hiding and lying ,thats how they get to be respected members of the comunnity, no one knows you know? if you corner an animal it might lay down and play dead ,till you turn your back on it then it rips your heart out

_________________________
its not hard to fall
when you float like a cannonball - damien rice

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#172608 - 08/11/07 12:21 PM Re: Therapists? [Re: shadowkid]
ttoon Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 06/19/07
Posts: 977
It is precisely this kind of attitude that perpetuates the very atmosphere that allows the abuse of children to go on.

Everytime an abuser uses the excuse that he or she was abused it is a slap in the face to every survivor on the planet.

If I found out my therapist treated abusers...even though I've been seeing him for two years now...I'd walk out.

There would be absolutely no integrity...no trust there at all.


Dave

_________________________
checkin out for a few weeks... whistle
02/07/09

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#172609 - 08/11/07 12:24 PM Re: Therapists? [Re: shadowkid]
Frog Offline
Guest

Registered: 08/05/07
Posts: 291
Loc: Arizona

I do want help from a T...but, big big big but, I'm
not willing to put myself into a situation that I
may do something because of my ANGER and RAGE...I can
barely contain it now..I've got good days and very dark days
were I know I could kill and not even blink or lose
sleep over it...

If I cannot find a T that specializes in MALE CSA
then I guess I'm stuck w/ the cookie cutter approach
that I'm running into at this time w/ the walking the
fence or the female/male/child approach I'm seeing
in advertisements...

It's very discouraging to me to see this...it's like
they are trying to just get my money...no real heart...
like they are the corner convience store or something,
just offering a hodge podge of services to the general
public for a huge price, "..they will pay if they want to
be fixed" mentality...

I agree w/ shadowkid..they get the services for free
and I'm stuck paying the price for both of us to get help
...double jeopardy for me...adding insult to injury..
why do I have to pay for their mistakes?

_________________________
A Native American elder once described his own inner struggles in this manner: "Inside of me there are two dogs. One of the dogs is mean and evil. The other dog is good. The mean dog fights the good dog all the time." When asked which dog wins, he reflected for a moment, "The one I feed the most."

Top
#172654 - 08/11/07 05:50 PM Re: Therapists? [Re: ttoon]
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
Dave,

I'm just picking on points being raised here on this thread, and I'd like to say I'm not advocating a "give perps a break" position. I just think we should be clear about what does and doesn't happen.

Anyhoo:

Originally Posted By: ttoon
I wouldn't see a therapist that treats abusers either. Beyond the moral or ethical considerations...wouldn't ya always be wondering if the guy going in or coming out before or after you was an abuser? Or, would they be wondering if I was?


I have to say I was in therapy for 18 months in Germany and then 20 months in Oxford and it never occurred to me to wonder were there perps in the waiting room or did anyone think I was a perp. You could tell who the new people were because they were more nervous, but other than that the issue didn't come into my head. I did ask MY T if she worked with perps and she said no she never had; but there were 7-8 other staff psychologists there and I can't say who they did and didn't work with.

At the end of the day, you have to bear in mind that most Ts don't take just abuse cases; they have lots of other types of problems to deal with in addition to CSA. No patient would have the right to ask, "Who was that creep I saw in the hall?", just as no one else would be entitled to ask questions about any of us. It's all confidential.

Many of us would probably be stunned to hear the kinds of cases that go through a psychology department or clinic over the course of a year. But our job is to focus on ourselves, not on what others might or might not have done.

Much love,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

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