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#171184 - 08/05/07 07:13 PM First Post
waz Offline
New Here

Registered: 08/05/07
Posts: 10
Hi All,

This is my first posting on here and I thought I would put my thoughts down. If it doesn't make a lot of sense then sorry. Other than the fact that its freezing and my hands are cold. Yes, yes I should put the heater on. Much of what I read here I see myself nodding my head and thinking the same thing its also a good feeling to think that people are not alone.

My victimization came when I was about 11 years old with the then scout leader of the local troup. Up to that point I remember being happy with enjoying so many outdoor sports. I look now at the certificates I still have when I was that age and still think how different I could be if it hadn't happened. The problem continued for about a year to eventually I didn't know how to deal with it so I wrote my parents a letter. He was dismissed from the scouts but nothing more was ever said about it.

This was about 30 years ago now. Over the years I had thought about it and hoped that it would go away over time. However for the last year I seem not to be able to get it out of my mind. Part of it I think is that that my father is very ill at the moment with alzeimers and parkinsons and I don't think he has too much longer to live. So emotionally I am probably more vunerable than before. I have been married for over 10 years now and I love and adore my wife. We have never had kids and I wonder now whether the issues of the past is part of the reason that we have never had them, as well that it never got dealt with. I have mentioned it to her and she is aware of the problem and has been very supportive.

For the first time ever the other month I mentioned it to 2 people - 2 people that I feel very close to. One was a long term friend of mine for 20 years and he said to me it explained a lot about my personality over the years he has known me. The other person was interesting. I have only known him for about 7 years through work and I feel like we have got quite close over time and we have shared many experiences together. He is 15 years younger than me as well. I watch and admire his confidence and the way as a person he is. I think part of me wonders whether I would of been like him if what had happened - hadn't. We are interested in some similar things and I have tended to confide in him some things of my personal life. However he is a strong believer in men shouldn't talk about personal issues and they should be kept inside. Perhaps when I was his age I probably believed the same thing. Over time I have started to think that the way to know a person is to understand the person and what drives them forward. I think in his case it was a mistake to tell him now because we are drifting apart. It brings a great deal of sadness to me as emotionally it took a lot for me to talk about it in the first place.

I have thought about talking with Mum about what happened as I see from reading this has brought some closure to people. However I worry about the fact she is so stressed with Dad that from her sake it wouldnt be the best idea.

Anyway I decided to put these thoughts down and see what people think.


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#171190 - 08/05/07 07:23 PM Re: First Post [Re: waz]
RICK57 Offline
Member

Registered: 12/31/03
Posts: 1611
Loc: ENGLAND
Waz - you've just done the most amazing thing that you can do for yourself! You've opened up to a whole group of men that understand how you feel, and what the impact of that can be!

You will find nothing but support here, and I hope you find some of the answers you need!

Sometimes it's a little slow on weekends, but someone nearly always pops up here just when you need them!

You can't do anything about the reactions of others in 'the real world', but maybe your 'quiet' friend has similar issues that he is not ready to deal with himself. It's good that you have a supportive wife. 'What if' is a question that we all ask ourselves, and it is one that could drive us mad.

Best wishes ...Rik

_________________________
*Never look down on anybody unless you're helping them up.
*I was seeking a way of expressing my anger - I found hope!
*There are many battles before the war is won! It can be won!

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#171193 - 08/05/07 07:31 PM Re: First Post [Re: waz]
Stefan012 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 12/18/06
Posts: 281
Loc: The Netherlands
First of I just want to say welcome!
There's lots of people here who can offer a lot of great advice and well, just understand you.

Stefan

_________________________
You lost the things that you thought you would never miss.
You let them out and miss them while they're gone
But there's memories down here and they will always live down here
No they can't take them away, so they won't

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#171197 - 08/05/07 07:35 PM Re: First Post [Re: Stefan012]
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
Waz,

Welcome to Male Survivor. I was also abused by a Scout leader and there's at least one other guy here who knows what this was like. I'm sure you will find a lot of understanding and support here and I'm glad you found us.

Much love,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

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#171210 - 08/05/07 08:25 PM Re: First Post [Re: RICK57]
waz Offline
New Here

Registered: 08/05/07
Posts: 10
Originally Posted By: RICK57


You can't do anything about the reactions of others in 'the real world', but maybe your 'quiet' friend has similar issues that he is not ready to deal with himself. It's good that you have a supportive wife. 'What if' is a question that we all ask ourselves, and it is one that could drive us mad.


Hey Rik,
Thanks for your kind words of encouragement. I have certainly found that of late that I am reaching out to at least people that I feel close to and perhaps that is the reason that I told these 2 friends of mine in the first place. I think part of me just needs a good friend - one that I can rely on, he doesn't necessarily need to understand but at least he can appreciate that things have happened that were out of some sort of my control. I suspect that my 'quiet' friend maybe has some issues himself and maybe that is the reason I am drawn to him. Either way I will stick by him. Now and again there are moments where he lets something out about himself and certainly those moments are worth remembering. When hes ignoring me it just drives me crazy.

Either way its good to be on board here and all your support is very much appreciated.


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#171211 - 08/05/07 08:33 PM Re: First Post [Re: roadrunner]
waz Offline
New Here

Registered: 08/05/07
Posts: 10
Hey Larry,

Thanks for your message and understanding. I am sure that you can really understand my situation. What annoys me is that I used to love the things that I joined scouts for in the first place. So many things over the years now lost the meaning they did for me in the in the past. Part of me now as an adult wishes to take on those things I used to love and try once again. Perhap's that is what draws me to my 'quiet' friend as he is certainly interested in some of those things. However I suspect that the fact at some deep level my unwillingness to do anything about it is preventing me from taking up that challenge.

I suppose only time will tell. Just somehow I can't see my wife too thrilled about camping. But I suppose that is all part of the healing process itself.

Thanks again for your support.


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#171214 - 08/05/07 08:42 PM Re: First Post [Re: waz]
sabata Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/08/06
Posts: 1948
welcome-------------------waz---------------------glad you found this site---------------there is a lot of good healing here--------------------------------------steve


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#171220 - 08/05/07 08:55 PM Re: First Post [Re: sabata]
WalkingSouth Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/30/05
Posts: 16264
waz,

Welcome to our circle. Come on it, pull up a chair and tell us about yourself when you feel comfortable doing so. Till then, grab a warm cup of cocoa and warm up those hands!

Lots of love,

John

_________________________
“Life’s journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting ‘Holy ____…! What a ride!’” ~Hunter S. Thompson

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#171226 - 08/05/07 08:59 PM Re: First Post [Re: sabata]
Lazarus Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/01/07
Posts: 851
Loc: Below the radar, USA
Waz,

I second Rik and Larry's welcome and encourage you to become a member of the family. I'm glad you were able to open up to your friends, and the one who pulled away may need some of your support in return for the onus you have placed on him... Find a place where you can talk to him sincerely, and let him know that you don't want anything from him, except his friendship. Who knows what you may have triggered inside him, and you should assure him that you only want his friendship. Perhaps that will put him at ease...

I wish you the best and hope to read more of your posts...

Lazarus

_________________________
"That which does not kill us, surely makes us stonger." - Neitsche

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#171249 - 08/05/07 11:08 PM Re: First Post [Re: Lazarus]
waz Offline
New Here

Registered: 08/05/07
Posts: 10
Guys,

Thankyou so much again for all your welcome. It certainly is giving me all sorts of encouragment that my decision to post here was not a mistake.

John - Hands are warm now.. The sun is out. I will get my chair in position as well.

I suppose now is the hard part. When its out you now have to deal with it and look at the person you have become because of it.


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#171252 - 08/05/07 11:17 PM Re: First Post [Re: Lazarus]
waz Offline
New Here

Registered: 08/05/07
Posts: 10
Originally Posted By: Lazarus
I'm glad you were able to open up to your friends, and the one who pulled away may need some of your support in return for the onus you have placed on him... Find a place where you can talk to him sincerely, and let him know that you don't want anything from him, except his friendship. Who knows what you may have triggered inside him, and you should assure him that you only want his friendship. Perhaps that will put him at ease...


Lazarus,
Thanks for your kind words and suggestions. I have certainly given it a lot of thought after I mentioned it to him and the jury is still out on whether I should of placed that onus on him as well. I think as well that he may not appreciate the emotional burden that in order to tell him that information placed on me as well, only time will tell. He is a very career focused person and that is probably his reluctance to get involved personally is a big step. I have certainly reassured him that all I want is his friendship. The problem is as well that its very hard to have that sincere conversation with him as if it gets close to personal issues he tends to dismiss them and dismiss me. It makes it hard to have any kind of meaningful discussion.


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#171263 - 08/05/07 11:56 PM Re: First Post [Re: waz]
healing_inside Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/28/05
Posts: 2005
waz,

Welcome to MS.

This is a great place begin dealing with the open can of worms.

Glad you posted \:\)

_________________________
I can't come to the phone right now, I am out living my life

*** WoR Retreat Alumni - Alta 2005 ***

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#171277 - 08/06/07 12:36 AM Re: First Post [Re: waz]
bp83 Offline
Member

Registered: 06/29/06
Posts: 111
Loc: Arkansas
welcome waz! I'm sure you will find this a very comforting and safe haven to express your feelings and questions!

_________________________
-
Scott

"Life is for living, we all know, and I don't want to live it alone..."-Chris Martin

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#171299 - 08/06/07 04:48 AM Re: First Post [Re: healing_inside]
waz Offline
New Here

Registered: 08/05/07
Posts: 10
Originally Posted By: healing_inside
This is a great place begin dealing with the open can of worms.


I think it is. Now I have to figure out how to deal with that can of worms and the many questions that can come out of it.


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#171302 - 08/06/07 05:21 AM Re: First Post [Re: waz]
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
Waz,

Originally Posted By: waz
What annoys me is that I used to love the things that I joined scouts for in the first place. So many things over the years now lost the meaning they did for me in the in the past. Part of me now as an adult wishes to take on those things I used to love and try once again.


I know how that one feels, bro! I loved all the camping and outdoors aspects of Scouts, but for a long time those memories were contaminated by associations with episodes of abuse. But what helped me a lot was to see that the abuser wasn't really a Scout leader - he was a predator who had just insinuated himself into our troop looking for boys to feast on. I also tried to remember that the man who ended everything and saved me was the Scoutmaster himself.

Some time ago I also wrote to National about my experiences and urged vigilance, and much to my surprise I got a nice reply back expressing regret and explaining all the things the BSA was doing to make sure abuse cannot continue. That is, the organization took responsibility even though the abuser was not a formal leader, but just one of the fathers who helped out a lot.

That enabled me to look back and separate my thoughts about Scouts from my memories about abuse. That's been a wonderful development, since it has given me back at least a piece of my childhood.

I just mention all this to assure you that all kinds of progress can be made, and in a lot of different ways.

Much love,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

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#171305 - 08/06/07 06:00 AM Re: First Post [Re: roadrunner]
waz Offline
New Here

Registered: 08/05/07
Posts: 10
Originally Posted By: roadrunner

I know how that one feels, bro! I loved all the camping and outdoors aspects of Scouts, but for a long time those memories were contaminated by associations with episodes of abuse. But what helped me a lot was to see that the abuser wasn't really a Scout leader - he was a predator who had just insinuated himself into our troop looking for boys to feast on. I also tried to remember that the man who ended everything and saved me was the Scoutmaster himself.


Hey Larry,

Perhaps that is part of the problem for me. Other than I don't remember much of the detail about it now and only the emotions that ran with it. The whole situation went unchecked for so long. I think I mentioned in another mail that the only way I dealt with it in the end was to write a letter to my parents. I suppose that opens up another can that I felt I couldnt go to my parents about it for so long as well. Even in the end I didnt talk to them but wrote a letter. Even though it was stopped was it from my perspective dealt with? Well no. But in hindsight I wonder about my parents not noticing the changes in me in the post years. Surely their boy that used to do all the outdoors stuff and then stops and they know something happened - wouldnt it ring alarm bells.

Anyway they were both from Britain and they always used to say that the British keep a stiff upper lip (yes I am sure I am opening myself up for UK people to have a go at me) but in my parents minds thats that way things are dealt with.

Certainly if I ever manage to have kids then this is NOT the kind of relationship I want to have with them.


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#171355 - 08/06/07 11:11 AM Re: First Post [Re: waz]
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
Waz,

I also thought long and hard about that, and in my case I can remember (for example) sitting at the dining room table, looking around and thinking, "Can no one see what's happening to me?"

But there are a few things to consider here. I am now 58 and abuse began for me when I was 10. I see you are a bit younger, but still, for both of us, we were going though hell at a time when CSA of boys was not yet on the agenda - not even for professionals. That didn't happen until the late 80s, and the classic handbooks we read now (Lew and Hunter) come from the first reactions to that pioneering work.

I have spoken to my parents about this in detail, and they both remember my strange behavior - running upstairs to my room every time I came home, long showers, not wanting to be touched, zoning out without warning, etc. My mother would find my hiding places stocked with a blanket, comic books and some snacks, but she thought they were part of some game with my sister.

The bottom line is that what our parents needed wasn't just the information, but some framework of interpretation to use to read that information. They didn't have that, neither did our teachers in school, and neither did the pros.

It's of course up to each of us to decide what to make of this background, but I am content to give my parents a break for not realizing what even trained professionals did not yet know.

Much love,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

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#171386 - 08/06/07 12:58 PM Re: First Post [Re: roadrunner]
waz Offline
New Here

Registered: 08/05/07
Posts: 10
Larry,

Considering now what my parents are going through and there is no way that my father will remember anything about it with his alzeimers I am content to leave it be. I agree with you though that at the time when it happened which would of been late 70's early 80's there was no framework for dealing with this kind of situation. Yesterday I was having a talk with her about the fact that dad needs to go into full time care as she is unable to deal with it anymore and we had a discussion about she thought that alzeimers was at epidemic proportions. That maybe true however I also mentioned to her that the ability of the doctors to diagnose and record and collate the information now with the level of communication is by far the biggest factor that we know this info.

You think when you were younger that computers were not really even thought of. I look at younger people today and the access to information and resources is fantastic. Information before was such a premium. Look at what we are doing now the whole idea of discussion forums back then would of been a pipe dream. She related slowly that could be the case. I do sometimes get disturbed by the fact she said I had a wonderful childhood and that nothing bad ever happened. It seems at least what happened in scouts has been packed away in a nice little dark place for her.

w.


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#171394 - 08/06/07 01:10 PM Re: First Post [Re: waz]
waz Offline
New Here

Registered: 08/05/07
Posts: 10
All,

Thanks again for all your welcome messages. Your enthusiam welcoming me on board is very much appreciated.



Edited by waz (08/09/07 05:48 AM)

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