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#170136 - 07/31/07 03:21 PM Re: Was my husband raped by a woman? [Re: MarkK]
indygal Offline
Member

Registered: 06/22/06
Posts: 439
wife,

i also see something else going on here - you are both caught in the middle of new revelations - that is - if your husband is telling the truth, and like many here, i also believe him, then there is indication of a much deeper, even more troubling aspect of what happened, and that is why you are posting here - because maybe he is a survivor of childhood sexual abuse, or csa.

i think this is what is so difficult for you right now, it is like a kind of double shock and maybe even a trigger for your own past childhood, whatever that may have been. for many partners, learning about their male partner's abuse triggered events of their own past which maybe had been long buried.

even if that's not the case, the possibility has now been let out about your husband's childhood and you are both no doubt reeling from this. you don't want to think this happened to him, which would also mean then he is probably lying and wasn't raped. but then that puts you in the position as wife of a lying cheating husband which isn't very pleasant either.

maybe believing he is a liar is simply easier for you to bear than to believe he could have been raped this time? is that it?

i'm so sorry that reading and learning about csa is so hard for you as it IS a terrible tragic nightmare for ALL families, not to mention those who have had to deal with the actual trauma itself.

wife, you are not alone in this difficulty, nor are you a monster. you came here looking for answers, but also hoping against all hope your deepest fears were not true. instead you found others who share your husband's pain and it's just so hard right now, you are, as Mark said, in shock.

be patient and kind to yourself right now, take some time to think carefully.

if a man was going to lie about the events of that evening, would he honestly have told you the actions he took the way he did?

i believe your husband wants so badly to address other deeper, more sinister events in his past (sinister in what may have happened to him) but is holding back for the one reason so many here have spoken about - fear of being not being believed.

he wants so badly to share this, to face it, and needs you to listen to him. i hope for both your sakes you are able to do this. you are not alone in this. we are all here supporting both of you.

indy

_________________________
my avatar is one of the Battle Angel characters, fighting the good fight.

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#170148 - 07/31/07 04:14 PM Re: Was my husband raped by a woman? [Re: indygal]
thewife Offline
Guest

Registered: 07/16/07
Posts: 40
Right now, he's outside playing with our kids, and I'm in here, reading what you all have written, and crying. Probably for the first time since this whole thing started. Crying for him, for me, for everything we've lost. Just crying.

For now I will do nothing. Tomorrow we see our cuonselor and I will try and talk to her alone. She has beleived him from the beginning. Why can't I? I don't know. Maybe because the girl was so young, so cute, so everything I am not.

Regarding the possibility of csa, yes, I'm terrified of the thought. Even find myself looking at his family thinking about who could have done it. He won't discuss it (the counselor brought it up) except to say that he doesn't remember anyone doing anything inappropriate with him. Did used to have a reoccuring nightmare that Atila (sp) the Hun was coming to get him and he would hide/sleep under his bed. ???

I hate the road we are currently traveling, but I'm more afraid of the road ahead... How can I help him when I'm this much of a mess?


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#170151 - 07/31/07 04:17 PM Re: Was my husband raped by a woman? [Re: thewife]
MarkK Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/02/07
Posts: 2503
Loc: Denver, CO
couple things ...

1. "Crying for him, for me, for everything we've lost."
I don't see that you've lost anything yet. This CAN make you an incredibly strong couple, though it's impossible to see at this time.

2. "so everything I am not"
Not what counts - she is not the woman he loves.

3. "How can I help him when I'm this much of a mess?"
Stand at his side and be as honest with him as he is with you. Tell him how frightened you are and how much you want to believe him.

M



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#170169 - 07/31/07 06:33 PM Re: Was my husband raped by a woman? [Re: MarkK]
Lazarus Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/01/07
Posts: 851
Loc: Below the radar, USA
Wife, I think your husband has started his own post in the Male Survivor forum. You may want to read it, and I hope you'll take note of my reply to him. I've been following this thread for awhile, but was never sure about what I wanted to say. For some reason it was easier for me to write it to him than to you.

I don't fit into any stereotypes either.

I wish you the best.

Lazarus

_________________________
"That which does not kill us, surely makes us stonger." - Neitsche

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#170170 - 07/31/07 06:46 PM Re: Was my husband raped by a woman? [Re: MarkK]
honey girl Offline
Member

Registered: 10/09/06
Posts: 245
Loc: Midwest US
Dear Wife,

I want to add my support to everyone who has been encouraging you not to despair. Please take some time to step back and give yourself permission not to act on impulse. Our feelings are not always the only, or best, barometer for how to proceed, especially when they are prompted by incomplete or inaccurate information.

I will also say that my own reaction to my partner's disclosure contained some element of shock and resistance, even though I know from personal experience that SA does happen. I think some of us who are not victims of crime (and I am saying victims to make a point here) at a particular moment are tempted to prefer not to believe that it has happened. If you do acknowledge that people can be hurt, and can be violated, then what does that mean about the world? About how we should behave? About who to trust, and how to protect ourselves and those we love? Becoming a "victim" means that we are so vulnerable. That's scary and painful and sad.

So I wonder if you are not also grieving the loss of your image of your husband, whom you do seem to love, as someone who is strong and invincible. Better to think that he is duplicitous than to believe that he could have been laid low like this, perhaps. It may be less painful, in a way, for you to see him as a deliberate cheat than as a vulnerable human being. At the risk of stating the obvious, which seems to be a place I have been stuck in all day, he is no less masculine or manly to have had this happen to him. But that, too, goes counter to so much of what the cultural myths of manhood tend to promote.

Eh, Wife, we tend to have all kinds of difficult, hostile, uncharitable thoughts flit through our minds. I'm not in the group that thinks that we can control our feelings to perfection, or that we are always bound to act as our feelings urge us to do. (As someone who has lots of feelings, often conflicting, I'd be in trouble there.)

But you know, it's what happens over time that counts. The gradual build-up of day after day behavior. The patterns we strive to create in our lives with those we love.

One more observation I'd like to make, which may already have been mentioned. It is possible for people (men and women, boys and girls) to be physiologically aroused even to the point of orgasm through abusive treatment. That does not mean that they wanted it or enjoyed it on any level. It is something that bodies do, and it is sometimes associated with a fear response as well. I suppose being skeptical about this regarding men has some similarity to the old lie that women couldn't be raped because it's too difficult to maneuver if she really doesn't want it. I'm not trying to criticize, Wife, just trying to point out one of the painful misunderstandings of sexual abuse that seems to complicate our reaction to it (and healing from it.)

Keep talking with us here. Keep trying to calm yourself, and reassure yourself that you have not been mistaken in trusting your man. From what you say, he seems to be a trustworthy person, and your judgment has been sound. Things are definitely topsy-turvy now, but they do not have to stay that way.

Peace,
HG

_________________________
I'm just a poor wayfaring stranger, a million miles away from home.

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#170305 - 08/01/07 12:05 PM Re: Was my husband raped by a woman? [Re: honey girl]
thewife Offline
Guest

Registered: 07/16/07
Posts: 40
I read his posts. They are exactly what he has been telling me. Also read -another- article on female to male rape. That too supports what he says. He is still not convinced himself, which makes it harder for me. This is a tangled web.

He didn't know until the counselor suggested it to him that he could be raped. He had never understood why something he obviously wanted (he says he felt like he did it, so he must have wanted it at some point) made him feel the way he did. In the beginning, when he told me, he told he he didn't know what happened, that he snapped. He's been looking for those answers for a long time.

He said last night that he knows he did it and has to take responsibility for that, but says it's as if he was removed and watching it happen (the parts he remembers anyway). He doesn't know how or why his body responded to her and what he actually did. He knows they did not kiss, but has no idea what he may have done during. But if he was raped, then it isn't his fault, so he shouldn't be responsible, right?

I asked him if he wants to confront her and he said no. Never wants to see or talk to her again. Is that normal? I would think that now that he's figured out what happened he would want to confront her with that knowledge so that she knows he did this against his will. Maybe it's just that I want her to know that so badly, for my own selfish reasons. She had a couple of years of tormenting him with that night, and she really enjoyed the knowledge that she "got" him to be unfaithful. That pisses me off!!

I wonder what she thought. Could she tell? He thinks he said, "No," and "I can't" at some point, but doesn't know when. He has had dreams about her saying, "I don't take no for an answer."

I feel like sending her a book on female to male rape just so she understands what she did. My H says I'm welcome to talk to her if I want to, but that he doesn't want to be involved. Bad idea, right?


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#170307 - 08/01/07 12:08 PM Re: Was my husband raped by a woman? [Re: thewife]
MarkK Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/02/07
Posts: 2503
Loc: Denver, CO
some people never want to face their perp. i am one.

i don't know if it would be helpful for you or your husband for you to talk to her.

she may know what she did - she may have done it for that reason. some perps are VERY good at finding prey.

M


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#170463 - 08/02/07 08:06 AM Re: Was my husband raped by a woman? [Re: MarkK]
thewife Offline
Guest

Registered: 07/16/07
Posts: 40
Ok, so the counselor says confronting her won't do anything but give her more power. She is convinced that this girl "picked" my husband, and orchestrated the encounter.

H and I were talking last night, before the counseling session, and he said again that he didn't want it, but then said that he may have participated physically (i.e. taking the dominate role during the actual act), but that his heart and brain weren't there. Still says he feels like a bump on a log watching it (what he can see anyway). I feel like his statement about participating means that he knows something that he hasn't shared with me, and that maybe it got to the point that nature just took over. He even used those exact words. But then, isn't that what a physical affair is? You don't think about it, you don't have any emotional attachment, you just do it?

The counselor says that I can't ask him any more questions. She says that she totally believes he was raped, but in the next breath says that he has to deal with what he did. That's SO contradictory. If he was raped, then he's a victim, and shouldn't apologize, or "deal" with anything except the fact that he was assaulted. I called her out on that, and she backpedaled a little bit. So I asked her, if someone makes sexual advances that you didn't ask for, didn't want, but didn't know how to stop, and then you get to the (breaking) point and do what they want becuase you are so wound up you need release (I think he thinks this is the case), is it still rape? She couldn't answer that question. Neither can I.

Plus, he has said that if he was single he'd have probably loved it. Yuck.

Thanks for letting me vent. I'm totally messed up about all of this. I spent the first month after he told me trying to come to terms with the fact that my husband WANTED someone else, and so now trying to undo all of that and come to terms with the fact that he DIDN'T want it, but did it anyway (even as he's struggling with that too) is the hardest thing I've ever done. If he's not sure what happened, how can I be? His statement from the moment he told me has been that he allowed it to happen, and that's still what he says. What does that mean?


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#170470 - 08/02/07 08:26 AM Re: Was my husband raped by a woman? [Re: Kathryn]
jaybee Offline
New Here

Registered: 07/31/07
Posts: 25
Loc: Florida
wife. if you love him, stop being meen and be his best friend like you promised. thats what he needs, not a mommy yelling at him for spilling his milk. i saw the girl spill it on him then point as you turned around. it was HER fault... i seen it.

_________________________
3+7+11+13+19+25+39/9-4 yep, were all somewhere...

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#170479 - 08/02/07 09:07 AM Re: Was my husband raped by a woman? [Re: thewife]
MarkK Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/02/07
Posts: 2503
Loc: Denver, CO
Originally Posted By: thewife
I feel like his statement about participating means that he knows something that he hasn't shared with me, and that maybe it got to the point that nature just took over. He even used those exact words. But then, isn't that what a physical affair is? You don't think about it, you don't have any emotional attachment, you just do it?

In an affair, when you "get together" - you know what you're doing, you're doing it willingly - from meeting to undressing to having sex. There may not be any emotional attachment, but there is mental awareness and acceptance. I believe your husband disassociated - checked out mentally. Very different.

Originally Posted By: thewife
So I asked her, if someone makes sexual advances that you didn't ask for, didn't want, but didn't know how to stop, and then you get to the (breaking) point and do what they want becuase you are so wound up you need release (I think he thinks this is the case), is it still rape? She couldn't answer that question. Neither can I.

If he believes this is the case, I'd say it's his mind trying to make sense of a situation that cannot and does not make sense. I don't beleive he "got so wound up he needed release".

Originally Posted By: thewife
Plus, he has said that if he was single he'd have probably loved it. Yuck.

Again - I think this is his mind trying to accept that he, as a man, was taken advantage of. I believe if he was single he'd have reacted the same way. It was, after all, rape.

Originally Posted By: thewife
If he's not sure what happened, how can I be? His statement from the moment he told me has been that he allowed it to happen, and that's still what he says. What does that mean?

I believe he says he "allowed it to happen" because his mind refuses to accept the fact he was raped. This is not easy for anyone to accept - but for a "grown man" the implications are shattering to one's self respect.

Finally - if at all possible, I suggest you quit trying to be sure what happened, and accept the fact that you love him and he loves you and he needs your help. Bottom line - he needs someone there who can support him. His whole world was yanked out from under him. He has nothing stable left in his life. This needs to be you.

my 2 cents,

M



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