can't stop the tears this morning. wife's off at work and son is at a boat show with one of his best friends, so i have the opportunity to exam my life. things i wanted to get done today too but all i can do is hug the stuffed puppy i got for Young Mark and hold on.

right now i'm not too crazy about recovery.

Mark, I'm so sorry...

I've been where you are and I know how bad it sucks. Don't beat yourself up. Right now you have the opportunity for a good cry. Go ahead and let it out. You deserve it, and you'll feel better afterwards, I promise.

I feel for you, buddy. I really do...

Mark,

The emotion wouldn't be there if it didn't need to come out. Let it flow. The stuffed animal is just the thing to hold onto when you need to cry for Little Mark.

Just know that you have brothers here who understand and support you in your healing journey.

Lots of love,

John

thanx guys, but the tears aren't there now. short shower i guess.
i feel floods flowing inside - but there's nothing on the outside but rock and stone.
so much pain. not physical pain so much, tho i'm having some symptoms that seem to relate back.

i guess i just don't know how to "let it out" or "let it flow". i've cried before ... but i've never cried for me.

Mark:

The tears will come, it is a process. You have the courage and the inner strength to process this. Don't beat yourself up and don't put yourself under pressure. It will come, just as spring comes after winter. You have had some good break throughs my friend.

Peter

Mark crying is good Let it flow. Tom

we're here for you man

I wanted to echo BP, we are here for you. Anytime man!

wall of rock
solid
ungiving
unbending

how can i help him if i won't allow myself to reach him?

Mark,

I've never spoken to you before, but you just made me cry. I've hugged my teddy bear many times and cried. Sometimes it comes from out of nowhere. I guess I didn't expect it to happen even now. But it did. I feel for you and with you.

God bless

cry for me
i have nothing

m

Mark, I don't know how to tell you how to let go. I do know that you don't always have to be the rock or superman. You have to give yourself permission to let your feelings show once in awhile. It doesn't mean you're less of a man; it may mean that you are more of one.

It's OK, buddy. It really is. You are a like a volcano right now, and if you don't let off a little steam you're gonna blow sky high.

I wish there was some way I could help you more than that.

Laz

When I first came to this site a couple of weeks ago, I cried everytime I logged on. It felt better than all the times I wished I could have cried for all the pain I felt.

You've been hurt, as we all have. But you've got a wife and family that loves you (more than I've got), a personal support group and an online support group and a faith in God. You can make it.

I've found that emotions can be like the waves of the ocean ... they wash over you, but are then gone and you're still standing.

Stay strong,
Maxx

Laz,

i appreciate your help (and yes, you are providing help just by talking to me) - my problem isn't showing my feelings.

i can cry at funerals. shoot - i can cry at sad movies.

what i've realized today is i don't cry for myself. and i don't think i ever have. or if i have... it's been a LONG time.

M

Mark,

Is that because you don't feel you deserve sympathy, especially from yourself? Do you blame yourself for what happened to you or for the emotional turmoil that resulted?

If you can't cry for yourself, cry for Little Mark. He's the one who was hurt after all.

Laz

i wish i knew...

not consciously, no. i've done a lot of work in that area.
and that's the severest of the pain. i can't find the tears. he tells me it's ok, we snuggle the stuffed animal ... but i know i should have tears.

i don't know what's wrong with me

You were sexually abused as a child. It screws everything up.

Maxx

that can't be my excuse for everything

There's nothing 'wrong' with you, buddy. It is not wrong to be emotionally distressed about being hurt in the worst way a person can be hurt. And there's nothing wrong with being strong, either. It's the coping mechanism that many of us use just to get by, day to day.

Maybe the moment has passed. Next time, give yourself permission. Little Mark is NOT OK, or you wouldn't be going through all of this. He says he's OK because he doesn't want to hurt you, doesn't want to worry you. But you know better. The only thing you can do now to ease his pain is to console him, hold him close and let him know that you know how bad he's hurt. And if it happens, cry with him.

I will cry for him, and for you. Fact is, I already am.

Laz

Mark,

I can relate to your feelings 100%. I've been there and still still do that. It's not pleasant, but it happens.

Question: Do you suffer from PTSD (Post Traumatic Stress Disorder)? I do and it is chronic :(. A full blown attack of PTSD always starts out with crying. However, the crying gets so severe that I dissociate from reality, and the crying does not stop throughout. I don't know if that has ever happened to you. I hope not. Crying for me does not necessariy mean that I will fade into PTSD, but the tears are never very far away.

I think our hearts have been so deeply hurt, and the damage has gone soul deep, that crying is the only way that our emotional selves can express it when felt. It's not good, and it's not bad. It just is.

Take good care of you. It sounds like you are very loved and know that we all care very much about you.

God bless

sure - that must be it.

but you can stop now - the moment has passed

thanx for bein there.

guess not - i don't have the crying

M

Mark - when I was 12, I vowed that I would never cry again because of something that someone else did. I kept that vow for over 3 decades, through the loss of my dog (the only being that never let me down once, although a few others have been close). The death of my parents, several favourite relatives, good friends in accidents, and so it goes on!

I broke down in December of 2003 (from 1969) and cried like a banshee! When you are ready, it will happen! It was a major release for me!

best wishes ...Rik

thanks. i cried at Mom's funeral ... like i said, for MOST things it seems i can cry...

M

It seems sometimes that it's easier to cry for others than for ourselves. If we cry for ourselves, it seems neverending....

Maxx

i'll have to take your word for that, Maxx

M

i think that what I mean is that once we open those gates, there's no end; it's easier to cry for others. Sometimes its easier not to cry for ourselves at all. I couldn't cry for myself for a long time.

Maxx

oh. ok .. not a problem i have

Yeah, I've been there. It sounds like you don't think you're worth crying for ... you are. Your pain is as legitimate as anyone else's.

Maxx

When You are at the bottom of a well there is no where to go but UP! This will pass

thank you for that, Maxx. i'm just WAY too tired to argue that one with you tonight.

M

Hey Mark,

One thing that helped me to let them flow was doing some memory excersizes. Looking at an old photo of myself and recalling some aspect of the abuse. Focusing on the little hurting boy who did not ask to be hurt. I pictue him, put him in my arms and hold him. And cry.

I used to be afraid to cry cuz I thought I wouldn't stop. It took a while but I did stop. It really helped.

Praying for ya,

Army

Mark,

One thing that might help you is to see this inability to cry as an abuse issue, and not as a personality trait of yours as an individual. We often do this without noticing it - we assume that something troubling us is a fault of ours as an individual, when in fact it's a common problem among survivors. You can see that, I think, from all the responses you have here; you are ringing a bell so many guys recognize!

Once we define this as an abuse issue we entirely reorient the way we address it. If you look back to your childhood, Mark, I bet you will see that you learned very quickly to hide not only what was happening, but also how you felt about it. It's so often a top priority for a boy to cover up what's happening to him, including how he feels - no one must know. I remember desperately fighting to hold back the tears and keep myself from trembling. It was terrible, and it still shows in all the wooden smiles and fake happy poses in photos from those days.

Another side of this is that a boy learns to numb out because that's what he had to do in order to survive. We come to think - falsely, but that's a different problem - that we don't deserve care, sympathy or help, that our feelings don't matter, and that if we cry all that will happen is that we will be exposed, shamed and judged. No wonder we close down.

So allowing ourselves to cry, my friend, is connected with allowing ourselves to feel again. It's something that is part of our recovery. It will come in its own time, when we feel safe enough to let out how we feel. It's connected with a regaining of confidence as well, since in order to let out our feelings we have to let go of that old fear that we are forever doomed and in danger.

So in a way, Mark, I don't think our tears are something we can call forth, much as we might wish we could do so. We have to just "let go" (an ambiguous idea, I know) and allow it to happen. It will come when it comes; it will come when we are ready.

So much of recovery is like that Mark. You came here to MS, for example, on April 2nd of this year. Why not the first? Why not March? Why not 2006? Or whenever? Simple: You came here when you were ready and you could not have done it one second earlier.

That's what we all do - we do things when we can - and that's another aspect of recovery we have to learn to accept. We need to allow things to happen, but then be gentle with ourselves until they do.

Hope this helps.

Much love,
Larry

there was no way to fight things then - so i had to allow them to happen. the guy behind the garage - my brother and his friends - my sister - the principal's son. to keep from being hurt i was the punching bag for every jock in jr high.

WHEN DO I GET TO STOP LETTING THINGS HAPPEN?!?

i am tired of things just happening to me. physically, mentally, emotionally, spiritually. just so tired.

m

key is "recalling some aspect of the abuse". other than knowing things happened, i'm at a loss - the details of it are not accessible, no matter how hard i try. they are more traumatic that either Young Mark or myself care to deal with i guess.

M

I'm sorry Mark, maybe I missed it along the way, but was there a particular event that brought you to rock bottom? Or was it just being alone and reflecting on life?

Whatever it was, I can definitely relate to the rock bottom. Wow, have I been there. I hit there in late 2003 and it lasted for 6 months. I had to have tons of help to get better. But, eventually, asi started to heal, I made some changes in my life and I got better. I guess it was the old "as long as I do what I've always done, I'll get what I always got" thing.

It sounds like you're just hanging in there at this point. Do something especially nice for yourself. Maybe some of your loved ones will see that you need some nice things going on in your life and join in to help you feel better.

It took me a long time before I was able to say this, but things do get better...eventually.

God bless

life in general. that and i had a couple good group meetings. and good stuff always crashes the apple cart.

denver_mark