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#168013 - 07/20/07 08:25 PM when a man loves a man
Nate Offline
Guest

Registered: 04/30/07
Posts: 94
Loc: Philadelphia, PA
well the title is an egageration, but hey it got your attention, right?

so lately i've had my sights on someone i deem a truly amazing man. words do not due him justice - he's the kindest, most thoughtful gay man i have ever met. Am I twitterpated, sure am. Nothing is happening relationally due to me leaving the country. However, meeting someone I could very easily fall in love with has been a totally new experience for me.

Since being abused and raped twice - my trust in others has been... well none. I find it odd that I feel safe with someone. I find it confusing these feelings of closeness - I guess in many ways I haven't experienced these things before. Sad I know... yet true.

I guess I'm writing this post to see if anyone else has experienced this.

have you every truly experienced love?

what obstacles do you think love encounters for those of us who have been so violated?

i know i can put up a wall. i know i'm weird w/ getting close to others. I know sex scares me to death. what experiences have you had?

when those obstacles came -- what did you do to overcome them?

I talked with this guy briefly about a couple of the things I was feeling and I felt as if I was being a burden. He wanted to know what I was feeling -- but I honestly felt like -- well i guess there was a part of me that wondered if he REALLY wanted to know. then there was a part of me that wanted to protect him from the brokeness that is within me.

does that make sense?

_________________________
"Love the moment. Flowers grow out of dark moments. Therefore, each moment is vital. It affects the whole. Life is a succession of such moments and to live each, is to succeed."

- Corita Kent

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#168018 - 07/20/07 09:03 PM Re: when a man loves a man [Re: Nate]
Jarrad Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/27/06
Posts: 1071
Loc: arizona
omg how sweet all those things you wrote about me at the begining of the post. haha. no seriously... i've never been in love tho i fake it well. with me i have a hard time making a distinction between sex and love. i also used to hustle, so i had a whole lotta sex. with a whole lotta men. it was a job and i became so desentitised from allowing people to have me, that it's so not something i ever feel passionate about. when i am in a relationship, i know when they say the right things. i know how to behave and act. i know the role i am suposed to play as the loving boyfriend. but have i honestly loved anyone? no. i feel nothing when it comes to relationships. and i either cheat and they dump me or i dump them before they dump me. to be honest, i can fall in love with many material things. i get off more on a kick ass piece of art than i do any man. so i do have feelings just not when it comes to people. that's not to say that i dont pretend to have feelings. it at least passes the time.


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#168021 - 07/20/07 09:14 PM Re: when a man loves a man [Re: Jarrad]
Jarrad Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/27/06
Posts: 1071
Loc: arizona
oh. P.S. a movie i really connected with was "short bus." the main character is so simmilar in my attitudes toward relationships (and i'm guessing part of yours.) he doesn't allow anyone to get close. anyway.. its VERY sexual. it was acutally ban from the theatres and wasn't allowed to be posted on the IMdb which lists every movie on the planet. so if you can get past essentially watching a movie with porn intermixed, you might be able to draw some conclutions about being close with someone verses not. (but don't hate me if you are triggered to hell or whatever.)


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#168027 - 07/20/07 09:32 PM Re: when a man loves a man [Re: Jarrad]
Nate Offline
Guest

Registered: 04/30/07
Posts: 94
Loc: Philadelphia, PA
lol -- i won't blame u for my triggers jarrad. ;\)

_________________________
"Love the moment. Flowers grow out of dark moments. Therefore, each moment is vital. It affects the whole. Life is a succession of such moments and to live each, is to succeed."

- Corita Kent

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#168079 - 07/21/07 01:34 AM Re: when a man loves a man [Re: Nate]
Lazarus Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/01/07
Posts: 851
Loc: Below the radar, USA
Nate, Jarad, you both don't yet realize the effects that your abuse could have on your future relationships. I've been exactly where both of you are; desperately wanting a loving relationship but not able to distinguish between who really loves you and who just wants to fuck you.

Love requires, it demands trust. Those of us who have been so badyly betrayed have a hard time developing trust. We know we want to trust, but we just aren't able to do it. So even with the best intentions, our relationships fail; either because we don't trust our partners or ourselves, or because we sabotage those relationships because, what the hell? He doesn't trust me anyway... either...

I feel for you guys, cause I've been there. It took a whole lotta time and a whole lotta people before I found someone I could trust. It's not easy for us.

Nate, first you have to trust yourself not to let yourself get into an abusive relationship again. If you feel it's not right, stop it. Contrary to what you've learned in the past, you are in control of your life and you deserve to be loved.

Jarrad, you've been seeking love, but mistaking sex for love, and are disappointed and jaded because you haven't found it yet. Sex has been cheapened to the point where it's just another bodily function. It feels good when you take a healthy shit, too, and that's about as important as sex is to you. Just another bodily function that needs to be taken care of. It has no more to do with love than taking a shit does.

But you're both wrong. Nate, love will come when it comes and sex will play a big part in it. If the sex doesn't feel right, then the relationship is probably not right either. Don't stress over it, and don't rush it. Jarrad, finding love will be hard for you because you are too cynical. Sex has become meaningless to you. When you find the right person (I bet it's the other way around, actually) sex will become important once again and all will be right with the world. Sex is not the only reason to have a relationship, but a realtionship with good sex is the closest that two people can ever become.

You both struggle with distorted views of what sex means. Nate, you over-emphasize it to the point of being afraid of it, and Jarrad, you trivialize it to the point of being bored with it. In my opinion, you both are wrong. Sex is not to be feared, or trivialized. My hope and belief is that you will both realize this when... WHEN... you meet the right person. I hope you both do meet this person and can accept it when you do.

My opinion- worth exactly what you paid for it...

Lazarus

_________________________
"That which does not kill us, surely makes us stonger." - Neitsche

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#168181 - 07/21/07 02:39 PM Re: when a man loves a man [Re: Lazarus]
Jarrad Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/27/06
Posts: 1071
Loc: arizona
laz, but all of that isnt because we are abused. its because we are gay. gay guys have sex to just haev sex. not to find love and be in relationships. what i feel is typical of a lot of young gay guys. not nessisarily young abused guys. hoenstly, most gay guys dont even think about relationships until they are in there 30s. at least not serious ones. most dont want to settle down because the world is a buffet of bodies. i cant think of any gay guys that i know, or have heard about that is still with a highschool sweetheart.


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#168283 - 07/21/07 09:43 PM Re: when a man loves a man [Re: Jarrad]
Lazarus Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/01/07
Posts: 851
Loc: Below the radar, USA
When is a fuck not just a fuck? It's when you do it with someone you truly love and who truly loves you in return. Otherwise it's just mutual gratification. Gay people do it, straight people do it... we're not all that different. Yes, gay men are more open about sex and have more annonymous sex than other people. But the subject wasn't about sluts like us. It was about sex, and what is good for us.

Until recently, even when I was with someone I thought I truly loved, I could not/would not accept the fact that they really loved me, because I didn't trust them or myself. So the sex was just sex for sex's sake. Nothing more. You think it's hip that you can fuck anybody you want, but you know what? It's just an ego trip. The sex means nothing, but the fact that somebody else was attracted to you is attractive in itself. That's why they call it a 'score'. Yeah! You made a homerun. You go, boy!

I did what you are doing for more years than I care to mention. And in the end, some of it was exciting, like hitting a homerun, but none of it was particularly gratifying. I slept around because I was trying to prove to myself that I was attractive, that I was worth something. In the end, it got to the point where it was no longer worth the effort. Sure, it was flattering to get hit on by an attractive guy, but as time went by I turned more and more of them down. They didn't really want ME, they just wanted a hot fuck with a hot guy. How many times can you get off to the same old porn movie?

Someday, hopefully, you'll find someone you really like who really likes you, and not just for sex, or for talking about sex, or for keeping you company while you hunt for sex; someone who really likes YOU. If you trust yourself enough to trust that person, you might have a chance at a meaningful relationship. That's probably not even on your radar right now, but someday it will be. That's when you'll discover that your abuse really did fuck you up. Because you'll want that relationship, but it will be hard because your boundaries are fucked up, your value system is skewed beyond recognition, and your triggers will come back to bite you in the ass.

Sexual abuse is not the only thing that causes people to act like this, but in my humble opinion, it is a factor in many people. Sexual compulsion, sex addiction are common results of sexual abuse in many men, especailly gay men.

But Jarrad, if you didn't think your sexual abuse was causing some sort of problem in your life you wouldn't be here talking about all of this. You might be in denial, my friend. If you're a slut (and I say that in the kindest possible manner) what made you that way? Is that a healthy lifestyle? Is that how you define yourself and how you want to live your life?

And no, Jarrad; not all gay men are like that. Perhaps in your circle of friends they are, but you know what? Birds of a feather, and all that. I know many gay couples who have been together 10, 20 years or more. I was like you, Jarrad, until I found a man that I really love. I've grown to the point where I actually beleive that he loves me. I don't need other men now. I wouldn't take the chance of hurting his feelings by cheating on him, nor he with me. It hasn't all been wonderful; my triggers bite my ass occasionally because I didn't deal with them properly when I had the chance. But he still loves me. The sex is great, but it's about more than sex.

As hard as it would have been for me to admit when I was 20 or 30, the meaning of life is not all about sex. There is so much more. And because of that simple recognition, even the sex means so much more. It's not just mutual masturbation anymore.

Hope some of this makes sense. Am I wasting my time?

Lazarus

_________________________
"That which does not kill us, surely makes us stonger." - Neitsche

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#168290 - 07/21/07 09:56 PM Re: when a man loves a man [Re: Lazarus]
Scoutvictim Offline
Guest

Registered: 06/04/07
Posts: 434
Loc: St. Louis, Missouri
Laz....no your not wasting your time....

For some here...they may not believe you, but I do.

I hope I can find my "other half" like you have.

Much happiness to you and your man.

Carl

_________________________
Shawn and Ben will always be in my heart....

Happiness is like peeing your pants; Everyone can see it, but only YOU feel the warmth.

Peebles, Ohio WOR alumni, Oct. 2007

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#168644 - 07/23/07 08:20 PM Re: when a man loves a man [Re: Scoutvictim]
Nate Offline
Guest

Registered: 04/30/07
Posts: 94
Loc: Philadelphia, PA
lazaruz,

thanks for your post. i appreciate the harsh truth. i needed to hear it.

jarrad -- i'm 24 and don't sleep around. i do want a serious relationship. just so ya know it does exist below 30.

_________________________
"Love the moment. Flowers grow out of dark moments. Therefore, each moment is vital. It affects the whole. Life is a succession of such moments and to live each, is to succeed."

- Corita Kent

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#168792 - 07/24/07 01:37 PM Re: when a man loves a man [Re: Jarrad]
pain4ever Offline


Registered: 04/05/01
Posts: 1032
Originally Posted By: Jarrad
= gay guys have sex to just haev sex.


Okay back up...what....hell no!

There are alot of gay guys that fall into that stereotype and use it as an EXCUSE but I will tell you I know plenty of gay guys who dont have sex with random partners cause they cant control their hormones. Humans are the ONLY mammals that CAN control there sexual urges. And we should do that.

I get tired of hearing of the stereotype that because we are gay, we sleep around....we don't hold down relationships....NO. We can have long-term...life long relationships with people who truely love us for us...not for our body. It is our OWN fault for not looking for the proper partner and thats where the effects of our abusers comes in.

We have a completely destroyed views of who is good for us and who we deserve. The first step is realising we are more than pieces of sex meat. We are human beings that deserve to be treated like well...human beings...not like sex toys.

Love does not equal sex and sex does not equal love!! That was my HARDEST concept to get through my mind. Sex is a part of the relationship but you know what...sex is difficult for us. Thats the reason i cant ever bottom. But with my partner I have found that sex is amazing...love is there and it makes it prolly one of best things in life you can experience. Not to sound like a chick here but its love making not just sex.

I have found a wonderful man who loves me and supports me....IT IS POSSIBLE, dont get discouraged.

Brian
(Climbing down off of his soap box)


_________________________
Peace and Tranquility all depends on your frame of reference.

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