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#167936 - 07/20/07 10:31 AM were we helpless?
Jarrad Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/27/06
Posts: 1071
Loc: arizona
In one of muldoon post's he refers to us as "helpless kids." (i didn't respond to his post because its totoally going in a different direction.) so im asking are kids really helpless? dont kids have tools to prevent abuse? im not talking about us, but in general. don't some kids say no? and run away? why don't other run away? what makes us different from the other kids? i never thought of myself as helpless.


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#167937 - 07/20/07 10:38 AM Re: were we helpless? [Re: Jarrad]
FormerTexan Offline
Site Administrator
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 09/12/04
Posts: 11047
Loc: Denver, CO
Jarrad,

In my case, one of my perps was my mother. And back in 1973, one did NOT tell the mother 'no' unless you wanted to be picking your face up off the ground. And, when there was no place safe outside the house, there really wasn't anywhere to run away to.

In the case of the kid down the street, hanging out with him was better than staying at home. So there was a sense of connection with him that did not exist in my house. He was bad, but staying in my house was worse.

In the case of the church counselor (and I was in my late teens), he used deception and spirituality to fill an emotional chasm I had which was a leftover from childhood, and thus take what he wanted.

Helpless teenager? Eh, probably not. Helpless kid, around the mother? I would say so. Especially when my dad was not around to police her.



Edited by FormerTexan (07/20/07 11:07 AM)
_________________________
List of things ain't nobody got time for:

1. That


If I could meet myself as a boy...

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#167940 - 07/20/07 11:03 AM Re: were we helpless? [Re: Jarrad]
MemoryVault Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/01/07
Posts: 693
Loc: NJ
Hey, Jarrad --

Aren't we bigger/stronger than we used to be? So we weren't as strong then.

We know more now, so we knew less then.

A thirty-year-old may remember exactly how a thirteen-year-old thinks, but a thirteen-year-old knows nothing about a thirty-year-old's mind.

Kids aren't "helpless" but they aren't adults. They don't know what tools they have, or how to use them. They can't weigh when it makes sense to run, to say no, to act out, or to give in. Sometimes, they happen to stumble on the right answer, but usually, the adult maintains control.

Kids have resources, but the whole point of abuse--what makes it abuse--is that it overwhelms any resources a kid can be expected to have.

It's not that there's a type of kid who gets away, and a type of kid who doesn't. There are just kids who get lucky and ones who don't.

David


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#167942 - 07/20/07 11:28 AM Re: were we helpless? [Re: MemoryVault]
shadowkid Offline
WARNING from ModTeam, September 2013: user "Shadowkid" was exposed as a hoaxer. His entire online persona and stories of sexual abuse were fiction. We encourage you not to become emotionally concerned by anything you see in any of his posts. Thank you
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/18/05
Posts: 2437
where would you run to? who could you tell and not be so ashamed youd rather die?

_________________________
its not hard to fall
when you float like a cannonball - damien rice

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#167943 - 07/20/07 11:41 AM Re: were we helpless? [Re: shadowkid]
jakekrain Offline
New Here

Registered: 07/08/07
Posts: 20
Loc: Australia
am i helpless?.. where does the shame, blame, hurt, love, confusion and pain come into that answer?

_________________________
Don't walk in front of me, I may not follow. Don't walk behind me, I may not lead. Just walk beside me and be my friend

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#167944 - 07/20/07 11:59 AM Re: were we helpless? [Re: jakekrain]
FormerTexan Offline
Site Administrator
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 09/12/04
Posts: 11047
Loc: Denver, CO
Jarrad,

I will add though that some kids are not helpless. There was a recent article about a 6th grader perping other kids and one of the kids told his parents. Turned into a fireball of a news story, but the point is that in that case, the kid was not helpless, thank God! So it really can depend on the situation.

_________________________
List of things ain't nobody got time for:

1. That


If I could meet myself as a boy...

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#167947 - 07/20/07 12:42 PM Re: were we helpless? [Re: FormerTexan]
Brian Offline
Moderator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 05/03/01
Posts: 1563
Loc: Upstate NY
My father left us when I was 7, which forced my mother to work 70-80 hours a week to keep the family together. When my mom was home, all she did was sleep. She was also a college student on Saturdays so she could get a better job to feed us and keep us out of foster care.

When I was 10, I had been without an available parent for 3 years already. I was an easy mark for any adult who would give me attention. I didn't stand a chance against his manipulitive mind.

I think things are somewhat different today. There is so much more information out there, but at the same time, there are still lonley and vulnerable kids out there yearing for attention and understanding from a loving and involved parent.

Also, when we hit that "age of infinate wisdom" (from about 10 to 25), we think our parents don't have a clue. We think that all their lectures and rules are put there just to "control us". We have no idea that some rules are there to make us safe; even if we don't understand the reasons behind them.

Brian



Edited by Brian (07/20/07 01:00 PM)
_________________________
Recovery is Possible!

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#167949 - 07/20/07 12:47 PM Re: were we helpless? [Re: Brian]
jessedawg Offline
Guest

Registered: 07/17/07
Posts: 345
Loc: New York
manipulative- think that is what makes someone helpless, being manipulated, by the time you figure out youve been manipulated its too late or too hard to change it? maybe?

_________________________
Firefighters - your worst nightmare is just another day at the office.

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#168010 - 07/20/07 08:04 PM Re: were we helpless? [Re: jessedawg]
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
Jarrad,

There must be an infinite range of variable factors that lead to different situations, including the circumstances of the moment, the emotional state of the boy, the skills of the abuser, etc. Researchers have been able to identify situations and contexts that make it more likely that a boy will be victimized, but I don't know how we could ever answer questions like who is helpless and who isn't.

Perhaps helpless is too ambiguous a word here. I don't have a substitute, but I can tell you that there can't be any way that a boy would be ready and prepared - whether emotionally, socially, sexually, or intellectually - to effectively ward off the advances of a skilled predator.

I have just recently heard of a case where a pedophile hit on two brothers on different occasions. One brother seems to have done a "deer in the headlights" thing and fell victim, while the other rebuffed the pedophile and stayed safe. Why the difference? I think that would be very difficult to determine.

Jarrad, a final thought, looking at your comment that you never thought of yourself as helpless. I think where you are going with this is that you never felt you were a victim, and from what you have said on the site about the abuse you endured I can understand that. I don't want to corner you on a topic that may distress you, but I will just say that many boys who have been abused by someone they love find it extremely difficult to see what happened to them as abuse. The implications of that are just too painful.

Much love,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

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#168014 - 07/20/07 08:26 PM Re: were we helpless? [Re: roadrunner]
Stefan012 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 12/18/06
Posts: 281
Loc: The Netherlands
I just didn't know it was abnormal, wrong etc at first. That took a few years before I figured that out.
So I don't know about helpless, but I didn't know I could stop any of it, at first anyway, so I didn't. Later, well I guess I was so used to it and afraid of my abusers that I didn't stop them either. I could have stopped it earlier I guess. But doesn't have much to do with helpless i think.

Stefan

_________________________
You lost the things that you thought you would never miss.
You let them out and miss them while they're gone
But there's memories down here and they will always live down here
No they can't take them away, so they won't

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#168019 - 07/20/07 09:09 PM Re: were we helpless? [Re: Stefan012]
Jarrad Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/27/06
Posts: 1071
Loc: arizona
meep meep larry, yeah i dont think of myself as a victim. (another word i hate which i add right below helpless.) i dont carry the shame around with me that a lot of guys here do. but i just cant help to think that there is something, a character flaw or something, that made us vulnerable enough to be abused and allow it to happen. all of us did allow it. other kids dont. why are we different. thats my question. we all have different situations. we all have different perps. we all had it happen at different ages. what is the common thread that made us "victims."


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#168024 - 07/20/07 09:25 PM Re: were we helpless? [Re: Jarrad]
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
Jarrad,

Originally Posted By: Jarrad
what is the common thread that made us "victims."


Childhood.

Much love,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

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#168032 - 07/20/07 09:56 PM Re: were we helpless? [Re: roadrunner]
Muldoon Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/30/02
Posts: 1428
Loc: St Paul MN
Jarrad I never allowed it to happen. I was told God wanted me to do this. Those world over whellemed me ,I froze and Father stated to Rape me. I desided that my God didn't want me to do this for Father R. I tried to pull away and fight him but he used his power to make me helpless. When Father R cruched my testicle in his hand with all his force he truely made me helpless.

How does a 11 yo boy fight back againest a 230 pound man. I was truly helpless and by fighting back I have had to live with life long pain and medical issues.

Tom

_________________________
Teach the Children to Never Hide in the Silence

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#168033 - 07/20/07 09:59 PM Re: were we helpless? [Re: Muldoon]
Stefan012 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 12/18/06
Posts: 281
Loc: The Netherlands
I was 7. Didn't know any better. I didnt 'allow' it to happen. Nor did any of us.

Stefan

_________________________
You lost the things that you thought you would never miss.
You let them out and miss them while they're gone
But there's memories down here and they will always live down here
No they can't take them away, so they won't

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#168035 - 07/20/07 10:03 PM Re: were we helpless? [Re: Muldoon]
shadowkid Offline
WARNING from ModTeam, September 2013: user "Shadowkid" was exposed as a hoaxer. His entire online persona and stories of sexual abuse were fiction. We encourage you not to become emotionally concerned by anything you see in any of his posts. Thank you
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/18/05
Posts: 2437
he hit me one time in the face ,when i woke up he was in me,next time he broke the fingers on my left hand ,i did not allow it to happen ,i survived

_________________________
its not hard to fall
when you float like a cannonball - damien rice

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#168058 - 07/20/07 10:41 PM Re: were we helpless? [Re: shadowkid]
FormerTexan Offline
Site Administrator
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 09/12/04
Posts: 11047
Loc: Denver, CO
I never allowed my mother to do what she did, Jarrad. As I said before, a 7yo, 8yo or whatever does not tell the mother no. Otherwise he'll be seeing a bright flash and hearing nothing but a loud ring.

"all of us did allow it"

I gotta say, Jarrad, that your statement is the same thing the "normal" people say when they don't understand what abuse is about. It sounds like you are blaming the abused instead of the abuser.

Who exactly are you thinking of when you make this statement?



_________________________
List of things ain't nobody got time for:

1. That


If I could meet myself as a boy...

Top
#168068 - 07/20/07 11:08 PM Re: were we helpless? [Re: FormerTexan]
Jarrad Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/27/06
Posts: 1071
Loc: arizona
im not blaming either party involved. im asking a question. apprently its the wrong one.


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#168078 - 07/21/07 01:16 AM Re: were we helpless? [Re: Jarrad]
TJ jeff Offline

Moderator
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/07/04
Posts: 3365
Loc: Northern Wisconsin
It's not that it is the wrong question Jarrad - it is just that it is a very emmotional one for a lot of people - "all of us did allow it" is a statement that is just so very untrue for a LOT of us (and even when we did let it happen there was a deeper reasoning behind why we let it happen) - some of us were groomed over a long period of time and did not even know it was abuse untill it had already been going on too long to stop - some of us were forcefully raped (a choice of life or death) - there are so many diffrent situations - so many diffrent possible answers...

I do know that it's just simply not possible for all of us to have been able to run away or to tell about it - there are many answers for that - some of us come from unhealthy families - familes where we were not taught what to do in such situations - families who would not believe us if we told them - or possibly they would even blame us - sometimes it is the abuser who keeps us silent with their threats of harm to us or family

I do know that in the case of the kids who do run away or tell - it is most often because they come from strong loving families where they feel safe with telling of the things that were done to them - they have parents who taught them what things are wrong for anyone to do to their bodies

A "common thread" that made us all victims? - I'm really not sure there is one...

_________________________
Who will cry for the little boy? - I will... - Antwone Fisher

Abuse happens in silence/isolation - Recovery happens only when that silence/isolation is broken...

TJ's History

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#168097 - 07/21/07 06:05 AM Re: were we helpless? [Re: Stefan012]
sportinrucks Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/01/04
Posts: 422
Loc: Louisiana
helpless hell yea I was helpless, I would try to dress up hard core gangster but heh I was helpless that motherfucker got me. And untill this day I still feel so damn helpless


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#168103 - 07/21/07 06:36 AM Re: were we helpless? [Re: TJ jeff]
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
***** possible triggers *****

Originally Posted By: TJ jeff
I do know that in the case of the kids who do run away or tell - it is most often because they come from strong loving families where they feel safe with telling of the things that were done to them - they have parents who taught them what things are wrong for anyone to do to their bodies.


In a long survivor story I wrote over some months in T I start out by saying that mine is the story that should never have happened. We were that strong loving family that TJ Jeff talks about; I knew I was loved and I felt special and important. I had already gone to my Dad with several things an he had helped me a lot.

But CSA is a different sort of challenge. The advance being made on the boy is so personal, and the skills of the abuser so great, that I just can't imagine how any boy could effectively defend himself. The day the abuser started on me I was alone with him in his home and cornered in his son's bedroom. He had sent me up there to get something, and I turned around and there he is standing there in his baggy old boxers and clearly aroused. He told me to take off my trousers, so I did it.

Does that mean I "allowed" what happened next, and for the next five years? I was 10 years old and he was 51. I was trapped in that room and I was scared and confused. He was an adult I knew and trusted; I didn't like what he was telling me to do, but I didn't think of options or choices - I just thought what does he want and I hope this is over with soon.

So far as I can see, no other boy in that situation would have ended any differently than I did. The proposition that it was up to me to somehow find a way to "disallow" him to harm me, otherwise I stand guilty of some "character flaw", just makes no sense at all to me, or for that matter, to any of the thousands of professionals who work on such problems as researchers or therapists.

When we say it can never be the boy's fault, that's not an argument from a position of vested interest. It's a fact.

Much love,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

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#168115 - 07/21/07 08:08 AM Re: were we helpless? [Re: Stefan012]
ttoon Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 06/19/07
Posts: 977
Jarrad,


I think we were set up.

The simple truth is that historically it has just been a blink of an eye that society has been willing to accept that boys can be victims. That men can be victimized.

Men are men and little boys are merely little men. The prize is given to the one who can walk when he is not able...to detach, discourage and dismiss what we feel in favor of a ridiculous notion that there is strength somehow in how much we can endure. Our heroes are portrayed as more than human, larger than life...but in the process trade away their humanity.

Trying to live up to that...or, inside of that...has made us vulnerable. To deny so much, for so long, to so many...look at the price we pay.


Dave

_________________________
checkin out for a few weeks... whistle
02/07/09

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#168125 - 07/21/07 10:06 AM Re: were we helpless? [Re: ttoon]
WalkingSouth Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/30/05
Posts: 16264
Jarrad,

The following post is by John the MS member, not by John the moderator.

You asked the question in your original post

Quote:
don't some kids say no? and run away?

Yes, some kids do, but most kids don't even know they have options and as Larry says, if they don't know they have the options the options don't exist. I said no. I knew that option was available to me. I couldn't run away because I was under his complete control. When I told him no he gave me 3 choices,

1. I could submit to his perverted desires.
2. I could name another child to be victimized in my place.
3. I could be killed.

Some choice, huh? Run away? Not possible. Little kids don't have the choices you seem to think they do. Maybe you did, but many of the rest of us had absolutely none.

I made my decision from the three choices he offered me. I named my brother to be victimized in my place and he left me alone. Was it a good choice? No, but at the time it seemed like the best of the three. I learned years later that my brother had been cruelly raped by the sicko. He's also a member here, and no, he wasn't offered the choice of saying no either.

One of our members was the victim of a man who murdered and ate his victims. How he managed to escape that fate I have no idea, but the bottom line, Jarrad, is that most if not all of us were helpless in the situation.

Those are the facts of the matter.

John




_________________________
“Life’s journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting ‘Holy ____…! What a ride!’” ~Hunter S. Thompson

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#168126 - 07/21/07 10:21 AM Re: were we helpless? [Re: WalkingSouth]
VN Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 06/03/05
Posts: 723
My abuse started with my parents. Both my parents. From as young age as I can remember. A 3 or 4 year old being abused by the adults they are suppose to most be able to trust, to me, that is helpless. And to grow up with it is to be learned in helplessness. And the other, outside person who abuse me as teenager, he is now in prison for murdering 3 street boys, taking 'trophies' of them and eating them to make them 'part of him'. I was teenager, I was near to 6 feet tall then, and I was still helpless. Because he was bigger, he was stronger, and he was just insane. And I am still amazed that I escape him someways intact.

I have made some stupid choices in my life. But in the abuse situations, yes, I was helpless, and I will not keep taking on guilt for something I could not prevent.

VN


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#168138 - 07/21/07 11:41 AM Re: were we helpless? [Re: roadrunner]
deck Offline
Member

Registered: 08/19/06
Posts: 109
Loc: Indiana
Hey Jarrad!

First and foremost, I want to reiterate what TJ Jeff said: you did not ask the wrong question. This is a place where we're all coming to try to sort out difficult and confusing situations from our childhood. It IS an emotional question but not a worng question.

It would seem that most abusers have an ability to find children who they can isolate and/or who already feel isolated. In a lot of ways, the child does not understand what is happening. He is coerced either physically, mentally, emotionally or some combination of these. When the molestation occurs the child is isolated and coerced.

After the molestation, the boy is often intimidated into keeping silent. I think that there is a societal notion that males cannot be raped/molested. That only way that a male would have sex with another male is if it were completely and totally consentual. The abuser/attacker can use this in a variety of ways:

1.) You consented. You had to have "wanted" the experience or you, as a male, would have stopped it.
2.) You will not be believed. I think this comes from the idea that the child is convinced that no one believes that the abuser would "consent" to have sex with another male.
3.) You will be believed. The abuser convinces the boy that the he, the abuser, their "relationship" and their families will be adversely effected.
4.) You will be believed. The abuser convinces the boy that he (the abuser) is willing to kill or harm those close to the child to keep this secret.
5.) Combinations of the above.

I guess what I'm trying to say is: what we have in common is that we were all vulnerable in some fashion before, during and after the attack(s). I don't think this makes us flawed-maybe just unlucky.

A friend of mine wrote a blog once about her father. One of the things that she mentioned was that, when she was a girl, a strange man tried to get her into his car. She said that she froze. Her father appeared out of nowhere and he chased the guy off. He had come home early from work. She was vulnerable for just moment- I remember her commenting how lucky and thankful she was that her father was there.

I don't know if this answers your question Jarrad. I do hope that you continue asking them. Honestly, I left out details about my personal experiences because I thought it might make my response sound defensive and emotional. But I have thought a great deal about myself and my experiences while writing this reply. Like I said it's an emotional question.

Take care
deck


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#168157 - 07/21/07 01:02 PM Re: were we helpless? [Re: roadrunner]
ak Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/10/04
Posts: 1491
I do not think that all children are helpless, although of course, until certain age, they are smaller then an adult. I think, it is been said that isolation is a good commen 'link' of those of us who been abused. I know I was isolated. I was 11 years old and 1000km away from my family, living in a dormitory room. I had been raised to respect people older then me and to always obey. So I guess that is what make me such a good victim.

Andrei


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#168171 - 07/21/07 02:01 PM Re: were we helpless? [Re: ak]
melliferal Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/03/05
Posts: 1159
Some of us were helpless, and some of us were not.

_________________________
Children cannot consent; they can only comply.

Oprah's resources for male survivors

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#168175 - 07/21/07 02:23 PM Re: were we helpless? [Re: melliferal]
Jarrad Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/27/06
Posts: 1071
Loc: arizona
ugh this totally turned into a pissing match hashing out shitty abuse scenerios. not the point of the question.

thanks mel. that finally answered it.


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#168197 - 07/21/07 03:46 PM Re: were we helpless? [Re: Jarrad]
shadowkid Offline
WARNING from ModTeam, September 2013: user "Shadowkid" was exposed as a hoaxer. His entire online persona and stories of sexual abuse were fiction. We encourage you not to become emotionally concerned by anything you see in any of his posts. Thank you
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/18/05
Posts: 2437
who pissed on who dude? it was a valid question ,that was worded very badly.was i helpless?no i chose to fight. so to answer the question no i wasn't helpless just fucking stupid.if i fought does that mean i wasnt helpless that i didnt just allow it? cause all it got me was beat half to death and fucked anyway. also would not being helpless mean i had to win? is the only one considered not having allowed it to happen the 11 year old that whipped ass on a 26 year 250 lb man?

_________________________
its not hard to fall
when you float like a cannonball - damien rice

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#168198 - 07/21/07 03:49 PM Re: were we helpless? [Re: Jarrad]
Alexander Offline
Member

Registered: 10/17/06
Posts: 223
Loc: The Netherlands
Not to attack you Jarrad, but if you ask such a question, these kind of answers is what you can expect.
If you don't want certain answers, don't ask the question.

I understand your question... but if the answer would be yes we could have run away or told someone to stop it from continuing... That would be as if we weren't smart enough cause we didnt stop it or something?
I don't think that is the right way to look at what happened to us.

Alexander

_________________________
Come on, oh my star is fading
And I see no chance of release
And I know I'm dead on the surface
But I am screaming underneath

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#168212 - 07/21/07 05:11 PM Re: were we helpless? [Re: Jarrad]
Cidnie Offline
Guest

Registered: 07/09/07
Posts: 113
Loc: SFC, CA
In the case of my abuser, he had gone through the necessary steps to ensure that any ounce of defiance and fight in me were well gone. It started with psychological abuse; "I'm going to kill this dog, and you're going to watch. If you tell anyone, I'll kill you too." then physical; "I'm going to break your fingers, I'm going to burn your skin. If you tell anyone, they won't believe you." and then the rape; "Every part of your body is mine and I'll do with it what I want. If you tell anyone they'll think you're a freak." It was complete and methodical subjugation. For every escape my mind came up with he refuted before I could even consider it. 'What if I tell his parents..?' but he had already told me 'My parents love me. You're just adopted, who do you think they'll believe?' So on and so forth.
I can look back now and clearly see that there were ways I could have escaped, but when you're in the middle of it it's hard to see those small windows.

_________________________
There is nothing natural about maturity in the physically immature. Maturity comes with wisdom, and wisdom comes with pain. Those of us with the greatest minds have endured the greatest torments.

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#168213 - 07/21/07 05:13 PM Re: were we helpless? [Re: Jarrad]
Cidnie Offline
Guest

Registered: 07/09/07
Posts: 113
Loc: SFC, CA
And I agree with Alex ^^^^
The only way to validate and give credence to our own individual thoughts on whether or not we were helpless needs a 'why' which brings up anecdotes. It's to be expected.

_________________________
There is nothing natural about maturity in the physically immature. Maturity comes with wisdom, and wisdom comes with pain. Those of us with the greatest minds have endured the greatest torments.

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#168222 - 07/21/07 05:35 PM Re: were we helpless? [Re: Cidnie]
Xavier91 Offline
Guest

Registered: 06/11/07
Posts: 84
Interesting question.
I would like to say that yes I was helpless.
I was 5 years old and that man was like a giant compared to me.
But that's not your question.
Could I have told someone? Not my 'mother' as she was the one selling me to those guys.
Could I have told someone else? Not really. I was 5 years and had no clue what it was that they did to me. I could not have worded it right even if I had wanted to.
I was growing up in a house where the only constant thing was violence. I was like this little adult trying to protect my younger brothers from this violence, trying to keep them fed, clothed, brought them to school, the one that made them shower and took them to the hospital when they were so sick or hurt that medical attention was absolutely necesarry.
What had I learned about adults? Don't trust them. Adults hurt children. If you tell them, they will split you up, put you in fostercare for a half year or so and then send you back to your 'mother' anyway, cause she had kicked of of drugs and alcohol... And yes she had... for a few months at the most and then things were back to 'normal' again.

So why did it stop for me? After she had gone crazy from to much drugs and alcohol and stabbed me with a kitchen knife. over and over again. She almost killed me. The doctors had given up on me cause i had just lost to much blood. Thankfully I pulled trough anyway. I was 8 years old at the time.
Finally we got taken away from our 'mother' for good and had the luck that the last fosterfamily we had stayed with for a while was willing to adopt all 3 of us.

So was I helpless? I think so.

And I would like to echo cidnie and alex, ask these kind of questions and get this kind of answers back.

Was everyone helpless? I guess in essence the answer would be no. But the reason the kid didn't tell, is because of so many different reasons... for every kid.. You can't like say they weren't helpless they could have stopped it... Cause that would be like saying it's their own fault or they were just to dumb or weak to stop it...
Just my point of view...

Xavier


_________________________
Rather laugh about what has been
Then fear what still comes, perhaps
Rather loving a big ghost
Then hating something that you can’t see

You are gone, but closer then ever

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#168259 - 07/21/07 07:46 PM Re: were we helpless? [Re: roadrunner]
Lazarus Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/01/07
Posts: 851
Loc: Below the radar, USA
All I can add is that awareness has shown many of today's kids that sexual advances from an adult is wrong and they don't have to accept it. It's a hard topic to discuss with your kids, but they need to know. If only I had known...

Lazarus

_________________________
"That which does not kill us, surely makes us stonger." - Neitsche

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#168284 - 07/21/07 09:44 PM Re: were we helpless? [Re: Lazarus]
FormerTexan Offline
Site Administrator
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 09/12/04
Posts: 11047
Loc: Denver, CO
"but i just cant help to think that there is something, a character flaw or something, that made us vulnerable enough to be abused and allow it to happen. all of us did allow it."

The question was never a problem for me. The statement "all of us did allow it" was the problem for me. If I allowed it, then I have to own all the guilt and shame and provocation. Then I am the one responsible for what happened to me. In short, it was all*my*fault. And this totally flies in the face of what we are learning as survivors, that it was not our fault this happened to us. This is why that statement was a trigger tripper for me. The question is fine. It was the followup that posed too great a challenge.


_________________________
List of things ain't nobody got time for:

1. That


If I could meet myself as a boy...

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#168401 - 07/22/07 11:54 AM Re: were we helpless? [Re: Stefan012]
MrEdd Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/24/03
Posts: 317
Loc: Texas
My mom wouldn't listen to what was happening.
She wouldn't not take us there.
I couldn't make her believe.
She said I was making things up to not go.

I tried screaming.
They held my nose shut
and did my face until I passed out,
then locked me in a closet
until I learned not to cry.

I tried running
I got carried naked back to a urine stained matress
And fucked anyway

I tried fighting
You can imagine how well that worked when I was four
or when I was five
or when I was six
or when I was seven
or when I was eight
or when I was nine
or when I was ten
even when I started high school
I only weighed fifty six pounds

all I could do was to not be there in my head

_________________________
Some Things are not problems to be solved, rather, they are facts which must be coped with over time.

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#168411 - 07/22/07 12:36 PM Re: were we helpless? [Re: FormerTexan]
Logan Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/05/03
Posts: 1205
Loc: NY
Sorry but I did not read anyones post but am just answering the questoln for myself.

1st. it seemed like the lesser of two evils, compared to going home. I was only 7 at the time and needed afection soooo badly I thought it was a good source
2nd. When I tried to tell my mom in the first year (itfinnaly end at 9 when nabor mover away," I tried to tell hers TWICE and she did not belive me.
3rd. As it progressed, I though It was partly myfault which he said, caused "you wanted to do it too," and I beliveide it cause I really did participate(but NOT want it!!!!) in it too by that time I was too ashmed af my actions to allow ANYone to know.
Also, I acted out at school, al I did was play doctor in2nd grad with this other kid. I said "I will show you mine , if you will show me yours," thats it. I hear even non-abused boys did that all the time, that it is natural to becurius at that age. So the kid told his mom, who inturn called the shcool. The shcool then called the cops and had them take me out of my classroom and took me to the principles office and and yelled and berrated me ---I truly think this incedent did the most damage to me my entire life----I was in 2nd grade forgodsake, 7yrs old!! So, do you rthink I would EVER tell the school anything ever again???

4th. When I was abused by 2nd perp from 12-14, I thought I was the perp, I was corrupted and bad inside and therefore in some wierd way deserving of it. By that time I hated myself so much I didn't care what happend to me, I just tried to make it as painless as possible.

So finnally 5. Was I helpless? The firstime around, absolutley, although its funny cause in5th grade they talked about "good touch/ bad touch." But, by then I was 10yrs old and there was noway in hell I was going to let anyone in on the secret or btrust the very people that shamed me the first time-FK them. all of my T's hvsaid that the school could NOT have hadled it in a worse way, but I only find this out now? It would have been nice to know that a long time ago!!!!

What I have come to terms with is that, are there resources available to a child at tha tage?-now we know ofcourse there are. but back them, was I AWARE of any recources available to me/-No Fking way, or could I have trusted them? I obviously did not. cause I would have told my teachers, by then the true dammage was already done and I was convined I had played a major role in it all. That I caused it all.

I think this attitude allowed me to be so vunerable to my later abuse. In a sence it allowed me to be revictomised.

This is making me angry and I don't wanna talk about this anymore!!!!!!

-Logan

_________________________
"Terrible thing to live in Fear"-Shawshank Redemption
WOR Alumnus Hope Springs 2009
"Quite a thing to live in fear, this is what is means to be a slave"
-Blade Runner

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#168441 - 07/22/07 05:43 PM Re: were we helpless? [Re: Logan]
KeithR Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/28/06
Posts: 363
Loc: Georgia
Jarrad,

I wasn't helpless. But I was vunerable. I was gullable. I did look up to and love my abuser. Unlike some who are abused, I did have people to turn to, but by then, I was too ashamed. I was ashamed that I would be blamed. Each child is a bit different, but every young boy I see who is the age I was when I was abused is vunerable and is gullable. I know they aren't helpless, but I know you don't have to be helpless to be abused. I'm glad the children today are better armed than I was.

I know you weren't helpless, by a long ways, Jarrad, or you never would have made through all that you have. I know you did what you felt you needed to for survival. I don't think you have a character flaw.

I just think some kids just have been given all the weapons to go to war with perps, others haven't. You can't go out and get those weapons as a child, someone has to give them to you.

Keith


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#168443 - 07/22/07 05:49 PM Re: were we helpless? [Re: KeithR]
Hauser Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/12/05
Posts: 2962
Loc: United States
I've not read any of the posts on this thread yet, but I thought I might simply reply to your first post Jarad.

I was groomed/manipulated/molested over the course of an entire summer by an older man, and towards the end of it, it was ME who stopped it. I didn't stop it by telling on him, I was too ashamed to do it at the time, but I simply decided that doing sexual things with him were too gross to put up with in return for his attention and affections and gifts. So, no, I wasn't entirely helpless, but the damage was already done.


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