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#167440 - 07/18/07 10:11 AM Question
jessedawg Offline
Guest

Registered: 07/17/07
Posts: 345
Loc: New York
Does it make a difference if the perp was nice? or violent? whats the difference? is one way better or worse or is it all just the same?

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Firefighters - your worst nightmare is just another day at the office.

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#167442 - 07/18/07 10:13 AM Re: Question [Re: jessedawg]
pain4ever Offline


Registered: 04/05/01
Posts: 1032
Abuse is abuse no matter if it was "loving" or not. However I found my violent abuser harder to deal with. One is not better than another. Abuse is wrong in any shape or form. Its all the same.

_________________________
Peace and Tranquility all depends on your frame of reference.

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#167444 - 07/18/07 10:18 AM Re: Question [Re: pain4ever]
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
Jesse,

Abuse is still abuse. Whether the boy was tricked or just plain forced doesn't change the fact that he was used as a thing to pleasure someone else.

The first man who abused me when I was 10-14 was a tricky bastard who at first lied and confused me with a lot of crap about how "This is how special we are to each other", etc., and then moved on to more threatening and humiliating adventures. The second abuser, when I was 20 and on the loose in San Francisco, was violent and I was beaten every single day, in addition to the sexual stuff. I can't say there was a great deal of difference in how they affected me. The one wanted me to cry, the other wanted me to bleed: both made me feel helpless and worthless.

Much love,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

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#167446 - 07/18/07 10:25 AM Re: Question [Re: roadrunner]
jessedawg Offline
Guest

Registered: 07/17/07
Posts: 345
Loc: New York
I dont understand where it comes from, people that get satisfaction out of making other people hurt like that, whats the reason?

_________________________
Firefighters - your worst nightmare is just another day at the office.

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#167453 - 07/18/07 10:34 AM Re: Question [Re: jessedawg]
pain4ever Offline


Registered: 04/05/01
Posts: 1032
Control...power...its hard and I can't fathom trying to understand the innerworkings of an abuser.

_________________________
Peace and Tranquility all depends on your frame of reference.

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#167456 - 07/18/07 10:41 AM Re: Question [Re: pain4ever]
shadowkid Offline
WARNING from ModTeam, September 2013: user "Shadowkid" was exposed as a hoaxer. His entire online persona and stories of sexual abuse were fiction. We encourage you not to become emotionally concerned by anything you see in any of his posts. Thank you
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/18/05
Posts: 2437
my abuse was about as violent as it gets ,i think the nice guy abuse is worse cause they trick kids first into trusting them then sometimes even into loving them ,then they drop the abuse bomb . at least i knew what was comming ,and it wasnt done by somebody that i thought was my friend. also its like so much more confusing to the kid if he gets groomed ,and its a lot eaiser to think that the kid either allowed it to happen or liked it ,but either way it just plain sucks adam

_________________________
its not hard to fall
when you float like a cannonball - damien rice

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#167461 - 07/18/07 10:55 AM Re: Question [Re: shadowkid]
jessedawg Offline
Guest

Registered: 07/17/07
Posts: 345
Loc: New York
what do you mean by groomed?

_________________________
Firefighters - your worst nightmare is just another day at the office.

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#167464 - 07/18/07 11:05 AM Re: Question [Re: jessedawg]
shadowkid Offline
WARNING from ModTeam, September 2013: user "Shadowkid" was exposed as a hoaxer. His entire online persona and stories of sexual abuse were fiction. We encourage you not to become emotionally concerned by anything you see in any of his posts. Thank you
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/18/05
Posts: 2437
groomed ,treated nice, taken places , buying things ,letting the kid do stuff no one else would ,making it seem like the abuse was really love ,making it seem like its this cool secret that cant be shared with anyone ,finding out exactly what the kid needs and giving it to him ,for a price ,but the prices is kept hidden till the timing is just right. if a perp makes the kid believe he likes him and is his only friend he can be pretty much assured that the kid wont tell .grooming is using the bad things in the kids life to make the kid think well this is weird but he likes me ,he tells me im ok when nobody else does .maybe its worth it to just be important to somebody ,god i hate those sneaking bastards

_________________________
its not hard to fall
when you float like a cannonball - damien rice

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#167465 - 07/18/07 11:06 AM Re: Question [Re: jessedawg]
ak Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/10/04
Posts: 1491
I think there is difference. I was abused by four different men. One was 'nice' to me. One was crazy, and tortured me. Other two was 'just abuse' I guess. I feel different of all them.

Andrei


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#167467 - 07/18/07 11:10 AM Re: Question [Re: shadowkid]
jessedawg Offline
Guest

Registered: 07/17/07
Posts: 345
Loc: New York
Oh ok so in other words it would be like a real good dad leaving when the kid is say around 5 or 6 then a new dad moving in to take the old dads place and the new dad goes out of his way to be very cool, friendly, let the kid get away with all kinds of shit, win the kids love, build up a shit load of trust, like that?

_________________________
Firefighters - your worst nightmare is just another day at the office.

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#167470 - 07/18/07 11:43 AM Re: Question [Re: jessedawg]
shadowkid Offline
WARNING from ModTeam, September 2013: user "Shadowkid" was exposed as a hoaxer. His entire online persona and stories of sexual abuse were fiction. We encourage you not to become emotionally concerned by anything you see in any of his posts. Thank you
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/18/05
Posts: 2437
yes

_________________________
its not hard to fall
when you float like a cannonball - damien rice

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#167488 - 07/18/07 12:28 PM Re: Question [Re: jessedawg]
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
Jesse,

Originally Posted By: jessedawg
Oh ok so in other words it would be like a real good dad leaving when the kid is say around 5 or 6 then a new dad moving in to take the old dads place and the new dad goes out of his way to be very cool, friendly, let the kid get away with all kinds of shit, win the kids love, build up a shit load of trust, like that?


What you're sketching out is a classic abuse scenario. The new father comes in and there sits a boy who is scared and confused because his real Dad has just bogged off. The boy's asking himself why that happened, and you can just bet the kid will be wondering what he himself did to make his Dad leave.

Now here's a new Dad, and this one is apparently really cool - like you say, giving the kid space, allowing him to get away with things, building up the kid's friendship, trust and love.

That's grooming, Jesse. The guy is building up a framework that will reassure the boy and make it difficult for him to say no later on. The kid will feel obligated to the adult and will be afraid that if he refused what he wants, this new Dad will take off like the first one did, and the boy will once more be all alone - and again, the loss will be his own fault...because he said no.

In these terrible circumstances the boy, trusting and needing the adult, will have almost no defenses against the predator. Even just the confusion is enough for the perp to get what he wants. I remember that from when I was 10: the abuser was a man I knew and trusted, I was in their house, he got me alone in a room and told me take off those pants. I was scared and mixed up, and I didn't like it - but I did it. He was an adult, he was friendly and nice, this was his house, it must be okay; I'm supposed to listen to grownups and if I just do it then it will be over and everything will stop and it will all be okay somehow.

The bottom line is you were betrayed, Jesse - betrayed in just about the cruelest and most selfish way - by a man you had a right to think you could trust.

Much love,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

Top
#167505 - 07/18/07 12:51 PM Re: Question [Re: roadrunner]
jessedawg Offline
Guest

Registered: 07/17/07
Posts: 345
Loc: New York
I dont know what to say Im pretty sick about all of this

_________________________
Firefighters - your worst nightmare is just another day at the office.

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#167516 - 07/18/07 01:01 PM Re: Question [Re: jessedawg]
jessedawg Offline
Guest

Registered: 07/17/07
Posts: 345
Loc: New York
Do you think any of these abusers even realise what theyre setting us up for? The amount of pain and shame and years of feeling like a circus act? If they knew would they even care? Has anyone ever heard of a reformed abuser? I mean has anyone ever come here and said they used to abuse but they dont anymore and theyre sorry for what they done and this is why?

_________________________
Firefighters - your worst nightmare is just another day at the office.

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#167517 - 07/18/07 01:02 PM Re: Question [Re: jessedawg]
shadowkid Offline
WARNING from ModTeam, September 2013: user "Shadowkid" was exposed as a hoaxer. His entire online persona and stories of sexual abuse were fiction. We encourage you not to become emotionally concerned by anything you see in any of his posts. Thank you
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/18/05
Posts: 2437
well can you at least start to see that what happened is not so uncommon? that you were sucked into something no kid could ever understand? its not being dumb or stupid to be fooled by an adult ,an adult with a twisted fucking mind? perps look for a kids weakness then use it against them ,he knew losing your dad was the perfect way for him to set you up ,dude IT'S NOT YOUR FAULT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

_________________________
its not hard to fall
when you float like a cannonball - damien rice

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#167518 - 07/18/07 01:03 PM Re: Question [Re: jessedawg]
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
Jesse,

You are absorbing a LOT, and very fast. You may be getting overwhelmed by it all and maybe you just need to slow down a bit. Sometimes we get flooded emotionally and we feel like we're just being swept away. Sound familiar?

Much love,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

Top
#167520 - 07/18/07 01:05 PM Re: Question [Re: shadowkid]
jessedawg Offline
Guest

Registered: 07/17/07
Posts: 345
Loc: New York
I never said it was me or my dad, it was just a question

_________________________
Firefighters - your worst nightmare is just another day at the office.

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#167522 - 07/18/07 01:08 PM Re: Question [Re: jessedawg]
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
Originally Posted By: jessedawg
Do you think any of these abusers even realise what theyre setting us up for? The amount of pain and shame and years of feeling like a circus act? If they knew would they even care?


My understanding of this is that the risk of re-offending is very high among abusers. Abuse seems to be like an addiction for them and they tend to invent all kinds of excuses to make what they do seem okay: "He liked it", "I would have stopped if he had ever said no", "I only did what he wanted", etc.

Much love,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

Top
#167523 - 07/18/07 01:10 PM Re: Question [Re: jessedawg]
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
Originally Posted By: jessedawg
I never said it was me or my dad, it was just a question


Okay, sorry. In that case just read my comment as an example of how grooming and the feelings of a vulnerable boy work out to lead to trouble for the kid. It would be similar in the case of any adult the boy trusts and really needs in his life.

Much love,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

Top
#167525 - 07/18/07 01:11 PM Re: Question [Re: roadrunner]
pain4ever Offline


Registered: 04/05/01
Posts: 1032
Has anyone ever heard of a reformed abuser?

Yes...my stepfather

_________________________
Peace and Tranquility all depends on your frame of reference.

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#167527 - 07/18/07 01:13 PM Re: Question [Re: pain4ever]
jessedawg Offline
Guest

Registered: 07/17/07
Posts: 345
Loc: New York
???

_________________________
Firefighters - your worst nightmare is just another day at the office.

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#167528 - 07/18/07 01:16 PM Re: Question [Re: jessedawg]
pain4ever Offline


Registered: 04/05/01
Posts: 1032
My step father was an abuser of mine...a fellow survivor. He has aoppologized to me..cried....hads stopped all of the abusive behavior...checked into a hospital and after confortation we help each other with our journey to healing.

_________________________
Peace and Tranquility all depends on your frame of reference.

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#167529 - 07/18/07 01:18 PM Re: Question [Re: pain4ever]
jessedawg Offline
Guest

Registered: 07/17/07
Posts: 345
Loc: New York
Does that make you happy?

_________________________
Firefighters - your worst nightmare is just another day at the office.

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#167530 - 07/18/07 01:18 PM Re: Question [Re: jessedawg]
pain4ever Offline


Registered: 04/05/01
Posts: 1032
To help him...yes. Even with all he did to me...I feel sorry for him.

_________________________
Peace and Tranquility all depends on your frame of reference.

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#167532 - 07/18/07 01:23 PM Re: Question [Re: pain4ever]
jessedawg Offline
Guest

Registered: 07/17/07
Posts: 345
Loc: New York
Dont understand how you could feel sorry for him

_________________________
Firefighters - your worst nightmare is just another day at the office.

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#167533 - 07/18/07 01:24 PM Re: Question [Re: jessedawg]
pain4ever Offline


Registered: 04/05/01
Posts: 1032
Its something I cant explain and it has taken years of counseling but you know what...he hurts like I do and the compassionate part of wants to help him.

_________________________
Peace and Tranquility all depends on your frame of reference.

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#167539 - 07/18/07 01:38 PM Re: Question [Re: pain4ever]
jessedawg Offline
Guest

Registered: 07/17/07
Posts: 345
Loc: New York
Im glad then if that works for you

_________________________
Firefighters - your worst nightmare is just another day at the office.

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#167541 - 07/18/07 01:40 PM Re: Question [Re: jessedawg]
pain4ever Offline


Registered: 04/05/01
Posts: 1032
Its not something I expect many to get here but you know what.....I am the bigger person now. the tables have turned...hell if wanted to i could give him a mind f&*king if wanted to.

_________________________
Peace and Tranquility all depends on your frame of reference.

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#167543 - 07/18/07 01:43 PM Re: Question [Re: pain4ever]
jessedawg Offline
Guest

Registered: 07/17/07
Posts: 345
Loc: New York
yes Im sure you could but why would you want to do that? youd be no better then him

_________________________
Firefighters - your worst nightmare is just another day at the office.

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#167544 - 07/18/07 01:46 PM Re: Question [Re: jessedawg]
pain4ever Offline


Registered: 04/05/01
Posts: 1032
Right which is why I dont.

_________________________
Peace and Tranquility all depends on your frame of reference.

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#167684 - 07/19/07 03:13 AM Re: Question [Re: jessedawg]
ak Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/10/04
Posts: 1491
Originally Posted By: jessedawg
Do you think any of these abusers even realise what theyre setting us up for? The amount of pain and shame and years of feeling like a circus act? If they knew would they even care? Has anyone ever heard of a reformed abuser? I mean has anyone ever come here and said they used to abuse but they dont anymore and theyre sorry for what they done and this is why?


One of my abusers approach me last year with apologies, and offer to turn hiself into the police if I say so. He explain some things, say he do not expect me to believe him or trust him, and apologize. He also pay for my back surgery last year, which I did not know until 2 months later or such. He have done some things to help me in my recovery in the last year. I still do not trust him, and would not be somewhere alone with him. But I do trust that he is changed. I tell to him some time ago that I forgive him for what he done to me, and that I do not release him from what he have done to anyone else, but that for me, I do not fear him no more, I do not hate him, I pity him. It was some time later that he come to me in saying he have changed, and have shown me some things to make me think to believe it, that it is truth. I do wish to hope that he is a very different person now, for himself and everone else. I think it perhaps is possible for someone to be 'reformed', but they must accept the need to, and want to do it. You can not reform an abuser, or any criminal, agiainst their wishes.


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#167686 - 07/19/07 05:17 AM Re: Question [Re: ak]
Nyjah Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/14/07
Posts: 610
At first when it started, I was so scared and I didn't know what was going to happen cos he was way bigger than me. I was 5. And he told me when I got older I was going to be big just like him. He was a friend of the family. Things got worse, he'd have me fight against him and his friends and other kids in the complex we were living in and if I lost, he'd hurt me worse. I could never win against him or his friends, but I could sometimes win against the other kids. He gave me drugs to get me to do whatever he wanted.

He's dead. I never got a chance to confront him, even if I did I'm not sure what I would have done.

I don't think it matters if they were nice or not. Cos the aftermath is the same. My cousin was abused practically her whole life, she didn't know it was wrong until she was 12 because of all the lies she was told. When she found out it was wrong, it was like her whole entire world was flipped up side down and everything she thought was true before was a lie.

Thats like when you are abused, everything you thought about grown ups was erased by what they were doing. Your world gets flipped upside down. You don't know who to trust, you don't know what to do anymore, and you lose your identity.

Hope this helps,

~nyjah


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