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#166938 - 07/16/07 09:19 AM Was my husband raped by a woman?
thewife Offline
Guest

Registered: 07/16/07
Posts: 40
I am new, and I need HELP! A few months ago, my husband told me about a "mistake." He said he couldn't deal with the pain and guilt any longer. Here is the background...

We were high school sweethearts, totally in love. Got married young and were always devoted to each other. Everyone envied our marriage. We had issues, a very sick child and other, typical sutff, but we were happy. In 2004 we had been married 9 years with 2 kids. Husband works in a shop, and one of the secretaries started getting friendly with him. (She is 12 years younger). Told him he was cute for an older guy, and other flirting behavior. Her husband also worked there, so my husband thought it was harmless. He is also a flirt by nature. One day she grabbed him by the belt buckle and said, "don't think I won't." He told her she was crazy and got out of there. Told another guy at the shop, but didn't tell me. He had told me that although she was young and cute, and walked around half dressed most of the time, she wasn't his type. He's right, I never would have expected him and her. My husband has been approached by lots of women (he is gorgeous) and has always turned them down.

One night in 2004 my husband was working late on a car, alone in the shop. Since she was the secretary, she knew he was going to be there alone. He said he was laying in the back of a car, working on a sunroof, and he didn't see her until she was on top of him. (she snuck in through a partially open bay door.) He says it felt like an attack. That's the word he used, that she "attacked" him. He remembers her kissing his neck, and then immediately she had her hands on him, and then had him in her mouth. He says that he doesn't remember most of it, just bits and pieces, he thinks she pulled him from the car by his private. He remembers standing there with her stroking him, and then the next thing he remembers he is pulling out of her and running away. He ran into the bathroom crying and remembers everything from that point on (washing himself with comet, vomiting, crying). When he came out of the bathroom she was gone, and he was distraught. Says he prayed to God that it didn't really happen. The next day, he confronted her and said that what happened would never happen again, and that as far as he was concerned it didn't happen. She tried several times after that, and he did not do it again. I believe him about that. He went through a period of depression right after, drinking a lot and staying up all night. I knew something was wrong at the time but had no idea what. Then, slowly he got better.

Here's the thing. As a wife, I feel betrayed. He had sex with another woman! (Even though he doesn't remember it)We are going to marriage counseling and the counselor is the one who first brought up the word rape. In my mind, even though he didn't set it up, didn't ask her to come, didn't intend to cheat, the girl put it out there and my husband took it. But he keeps telling me that he didn't want to do it, and that for the last 2 1/2 years he has been convincing himself it didn't happen. Says he would die to make it have not happened, and that he NEVER wanted to cheat on me. I am torn. I know he loves me, and I never would have expected this from him. In fact, no one would believe that he was capable of having an affair. But, how could a 200 pound man be victimized by a 100 pound woman? He says that it hurt so bad he blocked it out, and literally did not think about it at all when he was at work (the girl still worked with him every day until I found out).

I ask him about what happened, and he says that he cannot see it. He knows he entered her at some point (he says he feels like she guided him in) but has no idea how long it lasted (a second or a minute) and he remembers pulling out and running away. Knows he didn't ejaculate in her, but doesn't know if he did on the way to the bathroom. Says that ALL he can feel about that night is pain, anger, hurt, and shame. Now that I know, he has been trying to figure out what happened. Even trying to remember what it felt like to be inside her. I keep telling him he must have wanted it, so he's been trying to focus on that. He says that when he tells me he must have wanted it he feels like he's lying. He says he KNOWS he didn't want it, and knows he didn't enjoy it. He says he has this picture of her in his head and she's saying, "I told you I don't take no for an answer." Doesn't know if that happened or not. Doesn't know if he said no or not. He says that even though what happened is every man's dream, it was a nightmare, and the worst night of his life.

I love this man, and I know he loves me, so I want to try and understand. I've told him that I think she seduced him, but could it be more than that? Could this have been an assault? Is he right? Could she really have forced him? He says that he feels like she took away his manhood that night. He says that he never thought about it during the time I didn't know, except at night, when he was lying beside me. He would pray for forgiveness and pray that it hadn't really happened. Says that in another 2 1/2 years, he thinks the entire night would have been completely gone, and he would have been convinced that it ahdn't happened. Now that I know and he has had to face it, he HATES her. Has said that he would like to kill her so that she NEVER does this to another man again.

I'm sorry this is so long, but I am so confused. Any insight would be much appreciated.


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#166943 - 07/16/07 09:54 AM Re: Was my husband raped by a woman? [Re: thewife]
Grunty1967b Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/28/05
Posts: 823
Loc: Australia
Thewife,

You give a very detailed account and I think it very accurately helps to convey what your husband says he experienced. I get it fully (what youíre trying to say).

First off, I also need to let you know that there are several ďboardsĒ or sections to this website and there is one in particular called ďFriends and FamilyĒ. Itís for friends or families of those who have had unwanted sexual contact. This board that your message is in is meant to be for men to post issues only. It helps us to know we can only expect other men posting here and not have Ďotherí issues discussed. We get to choose later if we also want to check out the posts on the Friends and Family board along with all the other topical boards.

This isnít a major tell off. Please donít take it that way. I know youíre new here and this probably looked like a good placed to seek some help. Help it is you will get, but if you could do further posts on the other board that would be great.

Back to your post: imagine if you can reversing the male/female participants of this event (and forget the weight/physique of your hubby). Iím sure if you did that and told this story people would immediately classify it as rape. Without having to reverse the genders here, I saw it as rape. Your husbandís responses are that of one who has been violated.

The big issue I guess is can a man be raped? Yes! Itís the same issue that many of us male survivors have had to deal with: can a boy be raped? (after all arenít boys meant to be strong and not vulnerable?). Yes again, boys can be raped and are Ė to the sum of 1 in 6 before they are 18.

The other fallacy is that if males have a physical/sexual response then it must mean they enjoyed it and wanted it also. Also not true. Itís simple biology like bleeding if you get a cut finger. Those physical responses further add to ones guilt if they donít know this. Even if they do know this itís still an issue that has to be dealt with because a victim will feel betrayed by their own body and then reminded of the abuse each time they have sex in the future.

All this is workable and healing can come. It requires hard work on the part of the victim (which we call here survivors). Family and loved ones can also play a role in their support.

You also need support on all these feelings you are having and youíll need support in leaning how to now live with this event in your past. Professional help is at hand and from a fellow survivor, itís highly recommended.

Welcome to MS.


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#166944 - 07/16/07 09:57 AM Re: Was my husband raped by a woman? [Re: thewife]
MarkK Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/02/07
Posts: 2503
Loc: Denver, CO
Wow... from how you say he responded initially (washing himself with Comet, vomiting, etc) - it sounds like this incident triggered feelings from something much further back. If he was ever victimized as a child then yes, a 100 pound woman could easily victimize him again.

Originally Posted By: thewife
I keep telling him he must have wanted it

Personally, I think this is the biggest disservice you can do him right now.

If he was victimized, and he keeps trying to see it from the vantage point that he wanted it - he'll never get the pieces to fit.

You love him - support him. Trust him. Believe him. And be there for him.

my 2 cents worth


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#166952 - 07/16/07 10:16 AM Re: Was my husband raped by a woman? [Re: Grunty1967b]
mogigo Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/24/07
Posts: 1331
Loc: Colorado
Hey wife, this rape that your husband went through sounds very similar to my experience. And yes I would very much call it a rape. I had buried this event for 20 years of my life and only after an extremely emotional event in my life (mother dying) did my memories of it start to boil to the surface. The memories did not come out all at once, just vague memories to begin with but after working very hard to figure out what had happened they are now full blown in my face all the time.

I've had similar feelings that your husband has had, shame, guilt, feelings of less than a man. One of the worst feelings I have had is why would I feel so awful about this when as you said "this is supposed to be a guys dream". It is not a guys dream to be assaulted, to have his consent callously disregarded. I was not in a relationship at the time so the feelings of guilt that I have are not from any thought's of cheating.

Any advice I have would be to take your husband seriously. In the face of an assault people can react differently, whether a 200 lb man or 100 lb women. The shock of the assault could have made him react in many ways but it sounds like your husbands reactions was to take his mind out of the situation, like I did, but of course that left his body helpless. If his problems are similar to mine he will need your support and a therapist as well. Stand by him and take him seriously, what he says makes very much sense to me. It does happen.

You might want to research the subject of female on male rape, there's lots of good info out there and it will probably put your mind more at ease when you do.

Good luck, I hope you can come to terms with things

Mike

_________________________
Thriving

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#166955 - 07/16/07 11:53 AM Re: Was my husband raped by a woman? [Re: mogigo]
Chain Breaker Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/21/07
Posts: 376
Loc: Michigan
Your reactions are very normal for an aggrieved spouse. I don't think, however, that your husband intended or wanted any of this. So what if he's a flirt? That's not germane in any rape case. Certainly his reaction shows that he was traumatized by what happened. As for the memory issue, there may be something he's deliberately holding back out of embarrassment, but I think his lack of memory probably is not fabricated. In other words, for the most part, he's telling you the truth. In addition, I think that, from what you're telling us, he really did not want this at any level. He should seek therapy ASAP, and if he wants to prosecute this woman criminally, he should speak to the police -- the sooner the better.

I would submit that your husband needs your strength and help right now. Please be there for him. I know it will be hard and you may still feel skeptical, but please do your best to take him at his word and give him your full support.

Joe

_________________________
My name is Joe. I am a survivor and a good man. You can count on me.

CB

"[Insert your name here], I am [Chain Breaker]. Do you see that I am your friend? Can you see that you will always be my friend?"
--Wind In His Hair, Dances With Wolves

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#167003 - 07/16/07 06:24 PM Re: Was my husband raped by a woman? *DELETED* [Re: Chain Breaker]
thewife Offline
Guest

Registered: 07/16/07
Posts: 40
Post deleted by thewife


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#167004 - 07/16/07 06:39 PM Re: Was my husband raped by a woman? [Re: thewife]
dannym Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/24/07
Posts: 543
Loc: Boulder, Colorado
Dear Wife,

If and when your husband is ready, he will be very welcome here. This site is an amazing place for healing, but only when he is ready. I do hope you continue to come here and get any support you can. We can't always offer the perfect answer, but we can appreciate the difficult road you and your husband face, and we can offer our support, love and understanding as you heal together.

Wishing you strength and peace,

Dan

_________________________
"You should listen to your heart, and not the voices in your head."

Marge Simpson

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#167022 - 07/16/07 07:30 PM Re: Was my husband raped by a woman? [Re: dannym]
Kathryn Offline
Guest

Registered: 02/08/07
Posts: 303


Wife,

So far you've only heard from men, so just wanted to say that from a woman's perspective reading this story, I also feel this was not a rendevous, but something imposed on him. Even if there was some level of "complicity" the comet thing seems to speak to a high level of shame, and not to a pleasent experience. In other words, even if he could have refused by some physical strength standards, and even if he experienced a moment of "getting into the experience", and even if he has some level of responsibility for allowing things to go so far, his reaction afterwards seems to clearly suggest that either he was fully forced or he was sent to a pretty bad internal space from which he acted out of his normal character -- so much so that he tried to wash it away with comet.

While I think some people might get carried away, then feel guilty and confess, while telling white lies about the lack of culpibility on their part -- "it wasn't me, it was them" -- not many would embelish with a story of comet, and especially, it seems to me, would a man think of telling such a story if it wasn't true. Male sexual pride runs too deep, making up a comet story just doesn't jive as a mere story.

He doesn't sound a filanderer.

I'm so sorry you're both going through this.

Take care,
Katie


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#167045 - 07/16/07 09:06 PM Re: Was my husband raped by a woman? [Re: Kathryn]
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
thewife,

It seems to me that there are two issues here. The first - was your husband raped? - is a kind of legalistic issue that would depend on points like whether he had the option of declining sex, whether he was forced against his will, and so on. I agree that it looks like this one is a lot more complicated than it looks at first blush. I wonder if there is some history behind your husband's situation.

The other issue is a lot easier - has he been traumatized sexually? Clearly the answer here is yes. If he comes here to talk about it I can guarantee he will be treated with understanding and respect. No one will judge or blame him, and he will be able to just look at the materials here or participate as he feels he wants to and can. He's most welcome and I hope you will convey that message to him.

Much love,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

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#167060 - 07/16/07 10:03 PM Re: Was my husband raped by a woman? [Re: roadrunner]
Kathryn Offline
Guest

Registered: 02/08/07
Posts: 303


Larry,

Yet again, you expressed complicated feelings so clearly and precisely -- exactly what I was trying to say, only much more to the point.

Wife,

What Larry said \:\)

Katie


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