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#166855 - 07/15/07 05:15 PM can you reach through the TV?
Scoutvictim Offline
Guest

Registered: 06/04/07
Posts: 434
Loc: St. Louis, Missouri
OMG....

I just saw a news story on CNN about the Catholic Church settlement.

One woman was interviewed, and she said "I don't believe there are that many victims, but the ones who were, should just forgive".

Can I reach through the TV and slap her?

GOD that kind of thinking infuriates me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I want to SCREAM!!!

Carl

_________________________
Shawn and Ben will always be in my heart....

Happiness is like peeing your pants; Everyone can see it, but only YOU feel the warmth.

Peebles, Ohio WOR alumni, Oct. 2007

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#166862 - 07/15/07 06:02 PM Re: can you reach through the TV? [Re: Scoutvictim]
ttoon Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 06/19/07
Posts: 977
Hey, Carl...


Living in New england...there isn't a week that goes by that the Catholic church isn't in the news. As I travel I notice that that doesn't get out to the rest of the country as much. People are generally shocked as you try to quote the numbers of "verified" victims to them. Cardinal Law was actually promoted by the Vatican because they believed that the media was "unfair" to him.

But I know a guy that has worked with a lot of the survivors of clergy abuse and he said that most say the same thing...No one from the Catholic church ever apologized...ever. Their concern was containment. To protect the church.

That, I guess...would be the story worth telling to anyone and everyone that talks about forgiveness.

A good place to start would be an apolology. They won't do it.


Dave

_________________________
checkin out for a few weeks... whistle
02/07/09

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#166870 - 07/15/07 07:37 PM Re: can you reach through the TV? [Re: Scoutvictim]
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
Carl and Dave,

Originally Posted By: Scoutvictim
OMG....

I just saw a news story on CNN about the Catholic Church settlement.

One woman was interviewed, and she said "I don't believe there are that many victims, but the ones who were, should just forgive".


Here's something that may interest you both. I do a lot of letter-writing, but not in connection with anything I do here since I wish to speak only as a private individual and as a survivor. I don't write form letters, but do each one individually. I write to activists whom I think might appreciate a word of support, to charities and support bodies involved in CSA issues, and also to organizations that have stood accused of neglect or complicity in abuse issues.

I have received a number of emails from activists and representatives of charities and so on. And when I wrote to the national headquarters of the Boy Scouts of America to talk about how I was abused by a Scout leader for five years, I received back a very nice personal letter expressing gratitude for my concerns, regret for what happened to me, and a detailed explanation of what the BSA is doing now to make sure that abuse in Scouting stops.

But you know how many replies I have received from Church representatives? None! Not a single one. Not ever. Not from the Catholic church or any of its representatives in the USA, here in Europe or in the Vatican, but also not from the Presbyterian church in Pennsylvania where a lot of my abuse occurred.

To me this reeks of hypocrisy. They say I should forgive the abuser? It seems to me they should shut up and first seek forgiveness themselves for the way they neglected and in many cases deliberately betrayed thousands of boys over decades all around the world. We will never know how many have been hurt.

Much love,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

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#166872 - 07/15/07 08:31 PM Re: can you reach through the TV? [Re: roadrunner]
ttoon Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 06/19/07
Posts: 977
Larry,

Well...it is interesting really...the media is "interpreting" the settlement as an apology...even using that word as they report it. But there is no actual mention of an apology...and it is equally frustrating that the settlement comes on the eve of the trials that were scheduled to start.

Then, too...it is interesing to watch as so many "blame" the victims...for what is happening in the Catholic Church. Rather than targeting or focusing the blame where it belongs.

Care to share how you felt about the letter from the BSA as opposed to the, "no response" from the others? I mean...on a personal level?


Thanks...


Dave

_________________________
checkin out for a few weeks... whistle
02/07/09

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#166874 - 07/15/07 08:44 PM Re: can you reach through the TV? [Re: ttoon]
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
Dave,

Originally Posted By: ttoon
Care to share how you felt about the letter from the BSA as opposed to the, "no response" from the others? I mean...on a personal level?


Sure. First of all, I was surprised, almost stunned, that I had received any reply at all. When I opened it up I found a personal signed letter (not a form letter) that was clearly based on what I had said in my own letter. I was thanked for my effort in writing and told that the BSA was very sorry to hear of what had happened to me. They stressed that this was absolutely opposed to all the ideals of Scouting.

The letter also explained that the BSA has been trying to eliminate the threat of abuse by instituting new training programs and enforcing strict regulations governing the contacts between the adult leaders and boys. There is now a CDRom in the Scout handbook that deals with the subject of staying safe and there are programs for boys to watch and discuss on this subject. I was also told that if I had any suggestions or ideas they would be glad to hear from me.

My feeling was that I had been heard and that my effort had been worth it; I knew that someone had actually read my letter! I felt that I was taken seriously and I considered that the BSA genuinely regretted what had been done in their name, even though the abuser was not a Scoutmaster, but rather just one of the dads who helped out. That was important to me because it enabled me henceforth to look at my Scouting experience as a boy in a more positive light. That is, I was able to separate the abuser from the Scouting movement as a whole and focus on the fact that I had been hurt by him and not by the BSA as a movement or organization.

Much love,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

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#166881 - 07/15/07 09:09 PM Re: can you reach through the TV? [Re: roadrunner]
MarkK Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/02/07
Posts: 2502
Loc: Denver, CO
Speaking as the Dad of a boy scout, I can vouch there have been some major changes in handling contacts between adults and boys.

I'm glad BSA handled this personally - makes me feel good about my own involvement.

M

_________________________
the story
    https://1in6.org/men/bristlecone/mark-krueger/

Kirkridge - October 2008
Alta - September 2012
Alta - September 2013

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#166890 - 07/15/07 09:40 PM Re: can you reach through the TV? [Re: MarkK]
theatrekid Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 06/03/07
Posts: 702
Loc: oregon
I used to be in the BSA i loved it untill i was about 14 my interest changed i guess. plus thats the age when i became aware of the world outside my own life and when i first started finding out about how much abuse and stuff that has happened inside the BSA. it kinda sounds nice to know that they are making an effort to change.

I agree with MarkK i think its pretty cool that it was handled personally.


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#166894 - 07/15/07 09:57 PM Re: can you reach through the TV? [Re: theatrekid]
WalkingSouth Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/30/05
Posts: 16264
Unfortunately, the experience Larry relates is probably not the norm by any stretch of the imagination when it comes to responsible response and proactive defense of kids by organizations.

John

_________________________
“Life’s journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting ‘Holy ____…! What a ride!’” ~Hunter S. Thompson

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#166924 - 07/16/07 07:05 AM Re: can you reach through the TV? [Re: WalkingSouth]
ttoon Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 06/19/07
Posts: 977
Thanks, Larry,

Truly.


I took what I now call "snapshots" and when things were not so good, I'd pull them out and go inside of them. My favorite was my experience with the Boy Scouts. Going to camp. Getting away from all the craziness.

I am glad someone in the BSA understands the importance...and sent the letter.

Thank you...


Dave

_________________________
checkin out for a few weeks... whistle
02/07/09

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#167113 - 07/17/07 03:30 AM Re: can you reach through the TV? [Re: WalkingSouth]
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
John,

Originally Posted By: walkingsouth
Unfortunately, the experience Larry relates is probably not the norm by any stretch of the imagination when it comes to responsible response and proactive defense of kids by organizations.


Yes, you are right. This response was absolutely atypical. The usual response is to be absolutely ignored. Even when I wrote to my own former church, where I grew spiritually until the age of 10 and where my parents are still widely respected, I received no answer at all. I can just see the Session discussing my letter: "Ignore him and call our lawyer."

Much love,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

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