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#165589 - 07/09/07 10:39 AM I can't get clean
MarkK Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/02/07
Posts: 2503
Loc: Denver, CO
If Iím innocent
Blameless
Not accountable for the horror that befell me

Why am I the one covered with filth?


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#165590 - 07/09/07 10:41 AM Re: I can't get clean [Re: MarkK]
pain4ever Offline


Registered: 04/05/01
Posts: 1032
Mark...I feel ya there.

Alot of times after wards I would shower for days...almost obessively.

_________________________
Peace and Tranquility all depends on your frame of reference.

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#165596 - 07/09/07 10:57 AM Re: I can't get clean [Re: pain4ever]
MarkK Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/02/07
Posts: 2503
Loc: Denver, CO
i hate this feeling. my mind says it would be easier to just let go and live in squalor than try to clean up. my heart knows better ... so far

_________________________
the story
††† https://1in6.org/men/bristlecone/mark-krueger/

Kirkridge - October 2008
Alta - September 2012
Alta - September 2013

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#165601 - 07/09/07 11:02 AM Re: I can't get clean [Re: MarkK]
pain4ever Offline


Registered: 04/05/01
Posts: 1032
Its nothing wrong with you...you did nothing wrong. You have to see, now, that what was done to you was done by dirty people and that does not make you dirty.

_________________________
Peace and Tranquility all depends on your frame of reference.

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#165602 - 07/09/07 11:04 AM Re: I can't get clean [Re: pain4ever]
MarkK Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/02/07
Posts: 2503
Loc: Denver, CO
i know it's not my fault - but i'm still the one who's left covered in it. at least that's the feeling right now. maybe it's just a depressive phase and will pass. in time.

just sometimes it's real hard to see the purpose in trying.

_________________________
the story
††† https://1in6.org/men/bristlecone/mark-krueger/

Kirkridge - October 2008
Alta - September 2012
Alta - September 2013

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#165603 - 07/09/07 11:08 AM Re: I can't get clean [Re: MarkK]
pain4ever Offline


Registered: 04/05/01
Posts: 1032
We all get there...its a rollercoaster and you have to see the good in your life...the reasons for trying, the reasons for healing?

_________________________
Peace and Tranquility all depends on your frame of reference.

Top
#165605 - 07/09/07 11:10 AM Re: I can't get clean [Re: pain4ever]
MarkK Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/02/07
Posts: 2503
Loc: Denver, CO
the reasons ... they're still there, but the will to try - to keep wading thru the muck... sometimes I just get tired.

_________________________
the story
††† https://1in6.org/men/bristlecone/mark-krueger/

Kirkridge - October 2008
Alta - September 2012
Alta - September 2013

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#165606 - 07/09/07 11:11 AM Re: I can't get clean [Re: MarkK]
pain4ever Offline


Registered: 04/05/01
Posts: 1032
Yes it is exhausting but as I told someone here before, sometimes we need help, we have that here. Other times we are so depressed we can't see the light at the end of the tunnel. Its there and if your like me I needed some assistance to see it!

_________________________
Peace and Tranquility all depends on your frame of reference.

Top
#165610 - 07/09/07 11:23 AM Re: I can't get clean [Re: pain4ever]
MarkK Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/02/07
Posts: 2503
Loc: Denver, CO
light at the end of the tunnel? this tunnel has an END?

M

_________________________
the story
††† https://1in6.org/men/bristlecone/mark-krueger/

Kirkridge - October 2008
Alta - September 2012
Alta - September 2013

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#165611 - 07/09/07 11:25 AM Re: I can't get clean [Re: MarkK]
pain4ever Offline


Registered: 04/05/01
Posts: 1032
Mark,

Its a journey and MAYBE this tunnel has no end but it gets brighter all the time. I truely think this tunnel has an end... that being acceptance and forgiveness? Alot of the time my tunnel had to do with depression and yes there is a tunnel for that and yes it has an end.

_________________________
Peace and Tranquility all depends on your frame of reference.

Top
#165614 - 07/09/07 11:34 AM Re: I can't get clean [Re: pain4ever]
MarkK Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/02/07
Posts: 2503
Loc: Denver, CO
I see this for everyone else - why can't I see it for me? If someone says their abuse was their fault, this voice inside of me screams "No - it is NEVER their fault."

I wish I could get that voice to scream for himself. I think that's a big part of the slump right now - the loneliness, sense of no one close ... it's at a maximum right now.

So maybe that's it, I need to connect. And if there is no one here, then I will have to accept connection thru the "void" that is the internet.

Guess it's time for me to stop whining anyway. Thanx.


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#165616 - 07/09/07 11:44 AM Re: I can't get clean [Re: MarkK]
pain4ever Offline


Registered: 04/05/01
Posts: 1032
Okay first off...youre not whining. This is huge for you right now and for us because we care. So stop right there...you are not whining, you are letting out your emotions and feelings, that will help close the loneliness gap and help you work through this. Posting on here is great for working out your emotions.

To get that voice to scream for yourself, you have to start seeing the value in yourself and the disgrace that was done to you. Once you see how much you are truely worth you will realise how the abuser attempted to devalue you BUT FAILED. You get mad...then that voice will scream from the top of the highest mountains for you.

I dont know your personal situation but here you have people who understand and connect with you...they care and if anything heal for us!!



_________________________
Peace and Tranquility all depends on your frame of reference.

Top
#165631 - 07/09/07 02:05 PM Re: I can't get clean [Re: pain4ever]
MarkK Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/02/07
Posts: 2503
Loc: Denver, CO
I had a T tell me once I needed to "find my voice" and scream. Or yell. But MAKE A NOISE. According to her, since the idea of "being loud" shrivels me inside - that was proof enough that I need to do it.

I think one of the biggest hurdles is "seeing the value in myself"...

I appreciate the feedback more than you might realize ... then again, you probably DO realize ...

I feel there is this impenetrable wall before me. I can't move it, can't go around it, over it, under it - and sure can't go THROUGH it ...

I hate being a defeatist

_________________________
the story
††† https://1in6.org/men/bristlecone/mark-krueger/

Kirkridge - October 2008
Alta - September 2012
Alta - September 2013

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#165634 - 07/09/07 02:09 PM Re: I can't get clean [Re: MarkK]
pain4ever Offline


Registered: 04/05/01
Posts: 1032
We all have the walls...I used to joke that mine were 100 feet tall, 50 feet thick and I was waiting at the top with Gatlin Guns. But the thing is I made that a wall so I could go through but no one could get in (thats not good either but its better than having a wall I cant go through). I did that by realsing my value in life.

You need to realise how much you are worth and how much you mean to others to find that voice for yourself. You have to realise you are worth standing up for!

_________________________
Peace and Tranquility all depends on your frame of reference.

Top
#165636 - 07/09/07 02:13 PM Re: I can't get clean [Re: pain4ever]
MarkK Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/02/07
Posts: 2503
Loc: Denver, CO
Originally Posted By: pain4ever
You need to realise how much you are worth and how much you mean to others to find that voice for yourself. You have to realise you are worth standing up for!


If I may quote dear Hamlet : Ay, there's the rub.

M


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#165638 - 07/09/07 02:18 PM Re: I can't get clean [Re: MarkK]
pain4ever Offline


Registered: 04/05/01
Posts: 1032
You are worth it!!!

_________________________
Peace and Tranquility all depends on your frame of reference.

Top
#165639 - 07/09/07 02:29 PM Re: I can't get clean [Re: pain4ever]
MarkK Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/02/07
Posts: 2503
Loc: Denver, CO
That has yet to be proven.


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#165665 - 07/09/07 07:31 PM Re: I can't get clean [Re: MarkK]
ttoon Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 06/19/07
Posts: 977
"So maybe that's it, I need to connect."

Exactly...and when you do...tell em what you need.


:-)


Dave

_________________________
checkin out for a few weeks... whistle
02/07/09

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#165671 - 07/09/07 07:48 PM Re: I can't get clean [Re: ttoon]
MarkK Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/02/07
Posts: 2503
Loc: Denver, CO
when I do ... if I do ... I'll do that.

M

_________________________
the story
††† https://1in6.org/men/bristlecone/mark-krueger/

Kirkridge - October 2008
Alta - September 2012
Alta - September 2013

Top
#165690 - 07/09/07 09:28 PM Re: I can't get clean [Re: MarkK]
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
Mark,

I think a key for you lies in the question you ask:

Originally Posted By: MarkK
I see this for everyone else - why can't I see it for me? If someone says their abuse was their fault, this voice inside of me screams "No - it is NEVER their fault."


I think the reason is that when we look at someone else we can, first of all, be objective, and second, see the "big picture". We can see the other guy as an innocent child, with no negative ideas or false lessons about him getting in our way, and as a good man today, struggling and striving like all the rest of us.

But when we look at ourselves, that's where our vision is distorted. When the abuser messed with you, Mark, he didn't wreck your image of children in general, he ravaged your image of Mark. You see only yourself as guilty because you are the one the abuser hurt.

This is yet another area where "talking about it" - my mantra, I know - is so very important. As we connect with all those other innocent guys we begin to see that we must be innocent as well. We develop the skills we need to claim and believe in our own blamelessness too.

Much love,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

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#165691 - 07/09/07 09:34 PM Re: I can't get clean [Re: roadrunner]
MarkK Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/02/07
Posts: 2503
Loc: Denver, CO
It's a pretty dream.

_________________________
the story
††† https://1in6.org/men/bristlecone/mark-krueger/

Kirkridge - October 2008
Alta - September 2012
Alta - September 2013

Top
#165729 - 07/10/07 12:30 AM Re: I can't get clean [Re: MarkK]
ttoon Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 06/19/07
Posts: 977
It is a huge tunnel, Mark.

Wide enough for 4305 members to walk through. All at the same time.


:-)


Dave

_________________________
checkin out for a few weeks... whistle
02/07/09

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