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#165212 - 07/07/07 06:59 AM Our Secret Doors
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
In a recent thread I raised the point that there are so many things that a young boy doesn't know - things that, if he had known them, might have enabled him to keep safe. My point was that if a boy doesn't know his options or rights, in what meaningful sense can we say he really has them? If he doesn't understand what's going on at the most basic level, how can he bear any responsibility for those actions?

I illustrated this by comparing our situation to that of someone who gets burned in a fire and then in the hospital someone asks, "Oh, why didn't you walk clear of the fire through the secret door?" If the victim didn't even know such a door existed, did he have the choice of using that door?

That comment provoked some positive comments, and that made me think, hey, let's talk about this. What "secret doors" did we have that might have saved us from abuse, but were never really available to us because we just didn't know they existed?

I think this could be important because we too often blame ourselves and feel ashamed for the abuse, asking such questions as "Why didn't I say no?", "Why didn't I tell?", "Why did I just let him do it?", and so on. When we think like this, however, we are talking about "secret doors" - things we can easily see now as mature adults or older teens, but which were unknown to us back when we were little.

Here are some of my secret doors: things I didn't have any clue about and could never have been responsible for knowing at the time I was abused. Add yours! Start out by saying "I didn't know" and then put whatever you want to finish the sentence. As the list grows we will see so clearly the huge difference between what we knew then and what we know now. We will learn how mistaken we are when we accept even the slightest responsibility for the abuse we suffered.

Our Secret Doors

1. I didn't know it was sex.
2. I didn't know someone I trusted would hurt me.
3. I didn't know I would be believed if I told.
4. I didn't know abusers are expert liars and know how to confuse kids.
5. I didn't know my body is private and belongs to me and me alone.

Much love,
Larry


_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

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#165214 - 07/07/07 07:14 AM Re: Our Secret Doors [Re: roadrunner]
Logan Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/05/03
Posts: 1205
Loc: NY
I didn't know that it was wrong at first and mistaked it for affection/love.
I didn't know how or where to get affection/it was my only source at the time.
I didn't know that one does not have to "pay" or sarifice some thing to be loved.
I didn't know that I could say "No" at anytime.
I didn't know that he really did not care about ME, it was about him.

I just wanted to add that this is a really good idea, because when ever I ask myself WHY? I can look back at these 'secret doors' as you call them, and reasure myself that that it could not have been my fault!

-Logan



Edited by Logan (07/07/07 07:18 AM)
_________________________
"Terrible thing to live in Fear"-Shawshank Redemption
WOR Alumnus Hope Springs 2009
"Quite a thing to live in fear, this is what is means to be a slave"
-Blade Runner

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#165219 - 07/07/07 08:02 AM Re: Our Secret Doors [Re: Logan]
ecb Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/04/03
Posts: 205
I didn't know he was a liar
I didn't know he didn't really care about me
I didn't know what sex really even was
I didn't know it had already been done to me before
I didn't know it was he, not both of us, who would get in trouble
I didn't know he was harming me
I didn't know I could say no


Top
#165222 - 07/07/07 08:44 AM Re: Our Secret Doors *DELETED* [Re: ecb]
ttoon Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 06/19/07
Posts: 977
Post deleted by ttoon

_________________________
checkin out for a few weeks... whistle
02/07/09

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#165224 - 07/07/07 09:26 AM Re: Our Secret Doors [Re: ttoon]
TJ jeff Offline

Moderator
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/07/04
Posts: 3365
Loc: Northern Wisconsin
Powerful thread larry

here are a few of my Secret Doors

I did'nt know that it was'nt just innocent games
I did'nt know that he did not really care about me
I did'nt know that my body was my own
I did'nt know it was not something all boys did to each other
I did'nt know that it was not the same behind the closed doors of others homes
I did'nt know that I was not my mothers "property"
I did'nt know that I deserved love
I did'nt know that I was not as stupid as I was made to feel

_________________________
Who will cry for the little boy? - I will... - Antwone Fisher

Abuse happens in silence/isolation - Recovery happens only when that silence/isolation is broken...

TJ's History

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#165225 - 07/07/07 09:43 AM Re: Our Secret Doors [Re: TJ jeff]
mogigo Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/24/07
Posts: 1331
Loc: Colorado
I didn't know that adult's could be wrong
I didn't know that adult's could not be trusted
I didn't know that drinking could make me vulnerable

_________________________
Thriving

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#165228 - 07/07/07 10:25 AM Re: Our Secret Doors [Re: mogigo]
Army Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 06/27/07
Posts: 90
Loc: California
I didn't know it wasn't love
I didn't know it wasn't normal
I didn't know it was abuse
I didn't know it could be different
I didn't know it wasn't about me
I didn't know it would effect me my whole life
I didn't know it would direct my path
I didn't know I would survive
I didn't know I could forgive
I didn't know I would heal

Thanks for this chance Larry,
Army

_________________________
07 Peebbles WOR Alummni

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#165232 - 07/07/07 11:40 AM Re: Our Secret Doors [Re: roadrunner]
EGL Offline
Moderator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 06/19/04
Posts: 7821
I didn't know why he would want to do that to me.
I didn't know why he would want me to do that.
I didn't know why he kept on doing it after I was crying.
I didn't know why he made me do it again, after he said last time he wouldn't.
I didn't know that this was the way family treated each other.
I didn't know that I had to do this to be friends with someone.
I didn't know that a friend would humiliate and laugh at me while doing this to me.
I didn't know that a man I had trusted for many years would use my brokenness against me.
I didn't know that I had any worth left at that point, because it just didn't really seem to matter anymore.
I didn't know that all of the above was not my fault.

Thank you, Larry, for starting this. It had me crying writing this out, but that's probably good.

_________________________
Eddie

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#165233 - 07/07/07 11:42 AM Re: Our Secret Doors [Re: Army]
emptydreamer Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/19/07
Posts: 276
Loc: Midwest USA
I didn't know, that I didn't know
I didn't know that I wasn't "normal"
I didn't know that it would effect my quality of life
I didn't know it would be so hard to face
I didn't know that it left me so empty
I didn't know why no one came to my rescue
I didn't know that my whole life would be so screwed up
I didn't know where my unwanted desires came from
I didn't know that my father was such a perverted, sick man

Great thread Larry,
Thanks for sharing it with us!
Best wishes and warmest regards,
Scott

_________________________
I'm here for a reason. Failure is not an option.

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#165239 - 07/07/07 11:54 AM Re: Our Secret Doors [Re: emptydreamer]
shadowkid Offline
WARNING from ModTeam, September 2013: user "Shadowkid" was exposed as a hoaxer. His entire online persona and stories of sexual abuse were fiction. We encourage you not to become emotionally concerned by anything you see in any of his posts. Thank you
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/18/05
Posts: 2437
i didn't know , what love was

_________________________
its not hard to fall
when you float like a cannonball - damien rice

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#165241 - 07/07/07 12:03 PM Re: Our Secret Doors [Re: shadowkid]
Hauser Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/12/05
Posts: 2962
Loc: United States
I didn't know what the HELL to do cuz my parents never told me what to do!


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#165243 - 07/07/07 12:10 PM Re: Our Secret Doors [Re: shadowkid]
WalkingSouth Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/30/05
Posts: 16264
I didn't know that surely there must have been someone safe to tell.
I didn't know that even after I said no, what he did was not my fault
I didn't know that even tho I enjoyed it, it still was not my fault
I didn't know that I didn't know what I was doing

_________________________
“Life’s journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting ‘Holy ____…! What a ride!’” ~Hunter S. Thompson

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#165257 - 07/07/07 03:13 PM Re: Our Secret Doors [Re: WalkingSouth]
FormerTexan Offline
Site Administrator
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 09/12/04
Posts: 11053
Loc: Denver, CO
I didn't know relationship should not be like that.

_________________________
List of things ain't nobody got time for:

1. That


If I could meet myself as a boy...

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#165262 - 07/07/07 04:35 PM Re: Our Secret Doors [Re: FormerTexan]
sabata Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/08/06
Posts: 1948
I didnt know...........how could i know............no one taught me..........I didnt know


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#165319 - 07/08/07 01:03 AM Re: Our Secret Doors [Re: sabata]
mjolnir Offline
New Here

Registered: 07/04/07
Posts: 7
Loc: New York State
I can't add here right now. all i have to add has been said better than i could except this
THANK YOU for this thread


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#166078 - 07/11/07 04:59 PM Re: Our Secret Doors [Re: shadowkid]
kellygtx Offline
Guest

Registered: 07/11/07
Posts: 412
Loc: Texas, USA
I didn't know why he would do that to his little brother
I didn't know why he would let his friend rape me too
I didn't know a little boy should not have blood in his mouth
I didn't know not to just lay there
I didn't know why my mind would just shut down
I didn't know why I always felt happier when I was alone
I didn't know why I always felt like an outcast
I didn't know I should tell
I didn't know who to tell
I didn't know what to tell
I didn't know I was not the sick one

I didn't know I could enjoy PEACE






Edited by kellygtx (07/11/07 05:10 PM)
_________________________
I bid you Peace.

Kelly

The time is always NOW. Breath In. Breath Out. Move On.

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#166080 - 07/11/07 05:04 PM Re: Our Secret Doors [Re: shadowkid]
ttoon Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 06/19/07
Posts: 977
I didn't know how much censure hurt
I didn't know how much minimizing my concerns hurt
I didn't know how that would find it's way into most everything
I didn't know

_________________________
checkin out for a few weeks... whistle
02/07/09

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#166088 - 07/11/07 05:38 PM Re: Our Secret Doors [Re: ttoon]
Scoutvictim Offline
Guest

Registered: 06/04/07
Posts: 434
Loc: St. Louis, Missouri
WOW .....Larry,

I didn't know ...he would take all this time to set up his chance.
I didn't know ...a married man would do these things.
I didn't know ...why he wanted to show me that movie.
I didn't know ...that my body would betray me, the way it did.
I didn't know ...my mom was tired, the day I told her I wanted to quit scouting.
I didn't know ...I should have told her over and over until she asked WHY.
I didn't know ...when mom said "Well it's your decision, whatever you want to do." she meant that one choice.
I didn't know ...she wasn't telling me to deal with my own problems myself.
I didn't know ...at 13, I was not prepared to deal with all my problems myself.
I didn't know ...how persistence would have changed things.

WOW...

Great thread.

Carl


_________________________
Shawn and Ben will always be in my heart....

Happiness is like peeing your pants; Everyone can see it, but only YOU feel the warmth.

Peebles, Ohio WOR alumni, Oct. 2007

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#166089 - 07/11/07 05:39 PM Re: Our Secret Doors [Re: ttoon]
mogigo Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/24/07
Posts: 1331
Loc: Colorado
I didn't know I was suffering
I didn't know this wasn't how others felt
I didn't know

_________________________
Thriving

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#166091 - 07/11/07 05:44 PM Re: Our Secret Doors [Re: mogigo]
MarkK Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/02/07
Posts: 2502
Loc: Denver, CO
I didn't know I was worth fighting for

_________________________
the story
    https://1in6.org/men/bristlecone/mark-krueger/

Kirkridge - October 2008
Alta - September 2012
Alta - September 2013

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#166092 - 07/11/07 05:46 PM Re: Our Secret Doors [Re: mogigo]
mogigo Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/24/07
Posts: 1331
Loc: Colorado
I'm sorry I didn't know

_________________________
Thriving

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#166153 - 07/11/07 09:40 PM Re: Our Secret Doors [Re: mogigo]
Pete2004 Offline
Moderator
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/06/04
Posts: 958
Loc: North Carolina
Whew!!! Powerful Thread... Thanks Guys!

I did not know...This was not normal
I did not know....That boys did not do this
I did not know.....That it would affect me so deeply
I did not know......That it was not accepting and including
I did not know.......My body betrayed me
I did not know........I just did not know....No one told me....

Pete

_________________________
There is a destiny that makes us brothers;
No one goes his way alone;
What we send into the lives of others,
comes back into our own. (Edwin Markham)

Top
#166189 - 07/12/07 12:35 AM Re: Our Secret Doors [Re: Pete2004]
kevin1562 Offline
New Here

Registered: 06/07/07
Posts: 2
Loc: Michigan
I didn't know to run away.
I didn't know to scream.
I didn't know where everyone was.
I didn't know I should tell.
I didn't know I couldn't get in trouble.
I didn't know it was never my fault.

Kevin


Top
#166198 - 07/12/07 04:39 AM Re: Our Secret Doors [Re: MarkK]
Still Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/16/07
Posts: 6401
Loc: 2.5 NATO Nations
I didn't know I could hate my own skin
I didn't know I was worth a darn thing
I didn't know it would ever end
I didn't know to even try to get out of it
I didn't know it would all come back and bite me like this
I didn't know I was a real boy too...not a space alien
I didn't know what to do

_________________________
Wishing You Were Here!

The Aftermath Video

The Water Buffalo Song

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#166332 - 07/12/07 04:13 PM Re: Our Secret Doors [Re: Still]
Jaysen Offline
Member

Registered: 06/14/06
Posts: 680
I didn't know anyone would care.


Top
#166335 - 07/12/07 04:25 PM Re: Our Secret Doors [Re: Jaysen]
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
Originally Posted By: Jaysen
I didn't know anyone would care.


And now you know differently. \:\)

Much love,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

Top
#166339 - 07/12/07 04:33 PM Re: Our Secret Doors [Re: roadrunner]
BruisedSpirit Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 06/26/07
Posts: 192
Loc: Ontario, Canada
I didn't know he lied.
I didn't know his threats weren't real.
I didn't know there were people to help me.
I didn't know other people just saw a boy, not an abused boy.
I didn't know it wasn't my fault.
I didn't know I hadn't asked for it.
I didn't know how to escape the shame.


Top
#166342 - 07/12/07 04:58 PM Re: Our Secret Doors [Re: BruisedSpirit]
JessBoi16 Offline
New Here

Registered: 07/11/07
Posts: 1
Loc: Mississippi
I didn't know anyone would understand.
I didn't know if my parents would blame me.
I didn't know if my parents would understand.
I didn't know if my friends would believe me.
I didn't know if my friends would stick by me.
I didn't know what other people would think or say.
I didn't know anyone would care.
I didn't know if it was normal, or not.
I didn't know how the persons who hurt me would react.

_________________________
Best Regards,
- Jess

Top
#166349 - 07/12/07 05:33 PM Re: Our Secret Doors [Re: JessBoi16]
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
Jess,

What a way to start out on the site: I saw your registration yesterday and was wondering when you would begin to post. That's a powerful thing you have just done and it shows a lot of courage.

So welcome to the site and I hope it will be able to help you. I guess you can already see you will find a great circle of caring and understanding guys here. Don't feel you need to push yourself - just take care of yourself here and make Jess your first priority. It's good to have you with us.

Much love,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

Top
#166370 - 07/12/07 07:22 PM Re: Our Secret Doors [Re: roadrunner]
thecoopstah Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/19/04
Posts: 589
Loc: massachusetts
I,too didn't know....it would essentially ruin my soul

I didn't know.... my life would have such unpredictable circumstances.

I didn't know.... i was being abused although it terrified me

I didn't know.... people would deny it

I didn't know....i could have said something....

I didn't know....so many years later my soul was shattered.

I didn't think/know....i'd get through it.

So this is part of my laundry list of issues i had then and there more glarring today.Although this does not take away from who i am and how loveable iv'e become.

Coopstah

_________________________
" You never know how strong you are until being strong is the only choice you have "

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#166385 - 07/12/07 08:58 PM Re: Our Secret Doors [Re: thecoopstah]
MemoryVault Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/01/07
Posts: 693
Loc: NJ
I didn't know the word "assault"
I didn't know that you should listen to the warning voice in your head when it shouts at you
I didn't know that screaming and pleading doesn't help when a stranger enjoys your fear
I didn't know that I already knew how to create a black hole of memory when it was happening
(I still don't know exactly what happened)
I didn't know that brushing off the dirt and leaves didn't make it go away
I didn't know that somehow, I could have made someone understand
I didn't know that kind men existed
I didn't know how to grow up into one
I didn't know that it wasn't my fault when other men tried to have sex with me later
I didn't know that it mattered
I didn't know that I mattered
I didn't know that it was still with me


Top
#166405 - 07/12/07 10:01 PM Re: Our Secret Doors [Re: MemoryVault]
WalkingSouth Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/30/05
Posts: 16264
I didn't know that anyone could be so cruel to do what he did when I told him no

_________________________
“Life’s journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting ‘Holy ____…! What a ride!’” ~Hunter S. Thompson

Top
#166420 - 07/13/07 12:44 AM Re: Our Secret Doors [Re: thecoopstah]
Lazarus Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/01/07
Posts: 851
Loc: Below the radar, USA
To all the guys who have contributed to this post - Thank you!

You have read my mind, and said what I would have said if I had thought of it first.

I didn't know... All of the Above.

Larry, you're a genius. Thank you especially.

Lazarus

_________________________
"That which does not kill us, surely makes us stonger." - Neitsche

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#166865 - 07/15/07 07:02 PM Re: Our Secret Doors [Re: Lazarus]
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
This one hurts so bad. Thanks to Eddie for helping me to confront it:

I didn't know that anyone could be so cruel as to harm a crying innocent boy, so I assumed I wasn't innocent.

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

Top
#166882 - 07/15/07 09:10 PM Re: Our Secret Doors [Re: roadrunner]
sabata Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/08/06
Posts: 1948
i didnt know that my own brother..........was not suposto do these things to me


Top
#166908 - 07/15/07 11:39 PM Re: Our Secret Doors [Re: sabata]
OKIE MIKE Offline
Member

Registered: 02/13/04
Posts: 979
Loc: HULBERT OK
I did not Know that there were such people in the army .
I guess that I was still wet behind the ears . To this day I am
Homophobic . I know that I hsould not judge every one .Based on my experences

_________________________
MICHAEL

"I HAD NO SHOES THEN I SAW A MAN THAT HAD NO FEET"

"All I can do is be me, whoever that is"

Top
#166969 - 07/16/07 01:42 PM Re: Our Secret Doors [Re: OKIE MIKE]
Chain Breaker Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/21/07
Posts: 376
Loc: Michigan
I didn't know that my sister owed me better treatment.
I didn't know the depths of depression I would feel.
I didn't know my parents would have listened to me.
I didn't know I could have called her bluff when she said I would be in just as much trouble as she would.
I didn't know I would spend the next 36 years feeling worthless.
I didn't know I was innocent.
I didn't know I would end up hating myself instead of her.
I didn't know that someone might have believed me.
I didn't know that if I had punched her, I might have stopped her.
I didn't know that what happened to me counted as sexual abuse.
I didn't know that this happened to anyone else.

BUT

I also didn't know that therapy could make a difference in my life.
I didn't know that so many people would care about me.
I didn't know that this had ruined my sister's life, too.
I didn't know about malesurviror.org.
I didn't know that I could heal and help others to heal; and
I didn't know that my sister and I could be reconciled.

Much love to all my friends here,
Joe

_________________________
My name is Joe. I am a survivor and a good man. You can count on me.

CB

"[Insert your name here], I am [Chain Breaker]. Do you see that I am your friend? Can you see that you will always be my friend?"
--Wind In His Hair, Dances With Wolves

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#167014 - 07/16/07 07:16 PM Re: Our Secret Doors [Re: Chain Breaker]
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
Joe,

What a positive way to end your post. I'm so glad for all these important steps, and it's great you and your sister have been able to reconcile.

Much love,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

Top
#167127 - 07/17/07 08:11 AM Re: Our Secret Doors [Re: roadrunner]
Nyjah Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/14/07
Posts: 610
I didn't know why my dad kept leaving.
I didn't know he got hurt too.
I didn't know my mom would leave me.
I didn't know what he was doing was bad.
I didn't know how to tell anyone so I acted up.
I didn't know that joining a gang would be a bad thing.
I didn't know that anyone would believe me.
I didn't know I could hate the sex I am.
I didn't know I would eventually starve myself because I didn't want to get better.
I didn't know I'd find people who cared.
I didn't know so many people got hurt.
I didn't know I'd care for so many who got hurt that I didn't even know.


Top
#167141 - 07/17/07 08:51 AM Re: Our Secret Doors [Re: Nyjah]
shadowkid Offline
WARNING from ModTeam, September 2013: user "Shadowkid" was exposed as a hoaxer. His entire online persona and stories of sexual abuse were fiction. We encourage you not to become emotionally concerned by anything you see in any of his posts. Thank you
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/18/05
Posts: 2437
i didnt know that if they hurt you enough ,you just disappear
i didnt know if they hit you hard enough the first time ,you dont feel the rest
till later.
i didnt know you could bend an arm that far without breaking it
i didnt know that a bone breaking made the same sound as a stick breaking
i didnt know you could hurt that bad and still be alive


_________________________
its not hard to fall
when you float like a cannonball - damien rice

Top
#167149 - 07/17/07 09:31 AM Re: Our Secret Doors [Re: shadowkid]
jessedawg Offline
Guest

Registered: 07/17/07
Posts: 345
Loc: New York
I didnt know that no meant yes

_________________________
Firefighters - your worst nightmare is just another day at the office.

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#167188 - 07/17/07 11:39 AM Re: Our Secret Doors [Re: shadowkid]
Kenn Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/10/04
Posts: 146
Loc: Toronto, Canada
I didn't know what my orgasm was nor why he was so angry when I didn't let him see it.

I didn't know that he probably wasn't gay so I didn't need to believe that all gays were like him.

_________________________
"This above all; to thine own self be true."

William Shakespeare, Hamlet

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#169245 - 07/27/07 12:58 AM Re: Our Secret Doors [Re: roadrunner]
Cidnie Offline
Guest

Registered: 07/09/07
Posts: 113
Loc: SFC, CA
*jumps on the band wagon*

I didn't know I wasn't 'special' for what he did to me.
I didn't know that I could have told someone.
I didn't know that it wasn't 'love'.
I didn't know that it was never about sex.
I didn't know that he didn't own me.
I didn't know pain could be that severe.
I didn't know there were worse things than death.
I didn't know that it wasn't my 'job' to make him happy.
I didn't know that he wasn't my friend.
I didn't know that him hitting me, burning me, stabbing me and kicking me was the same as him raping me.
I didn't know what rape was. I knew what sex was and thought there was something wrong with me for not liking it.

_________________________
There is nothing natural about maturity in the physically immature. Maturity comes with wisdom, and wisdom comes with pain. Those of us with the greatest minds have endured the greatest torments.

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#169274 - 07/27/07 07:27 AM Re: Our Secret Doors [Re: Cidnie]
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
Shido,

Originally Posted By: Cidnie
*jumps on the band wagon


Good for you! I just comment here, bro, because this is yet another thing that you have done - another step towards taking to others about what happened. You couldn't do this list a week ago, but here you are now. That's fine. Everything comes in its own time and not before.

Like I said to you in another thread, so much of this is about learning the art of doiing the impossible. You will get there.

Much love,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

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#169290 - 07/27/07 09:32 AM Re: Our Secret Doors [Re: roadrunner]
Cidnie Offline
Guest

Registered: 07/09/07
Posts: 113
Loc: SFC, CA
You're right...I couldn't do this a week ago. I couldn't post the 'real' story two weeks ago. I couldn't BE HERE four weeks ago...and time keeps marching on =)

_________________________
There is nothing natural about maturity in the physically immature. Maturity comes with wisdom, and wisdom comes with pain. Those of us with the greatest minds have endured the greatest torments.

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#169307 - 07/27/07 12:14 PM Re: Our Secret Doors [Re: Cidnie]
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
Shido,

I think you need to know that what you are doing be so normal and so understandable. I call it "negotiating". By that I mean we are in a way "bargaining" with ourselves and with everyone else here. We have so many bad and wrong ideas about ourselves, left with us from abuse, that when we come in here we can't just lay it out on the line for everyone, just like that. We try out bits and pieces, expecting to be blamed, slammed against the wall, mocked, judged, whatever - again, because of what abuse taught us. As we see the bad response just doesn't come, we become bolder and more confident. We start using our real name maybe; or we talk about something we NEVER thought we would be able to say to anyone, and so on.

It's like learning to swim in a way. No kid learns by saying, "Oh, just throw me into the deep end where I can't even see the bottom. It's all good. I'll figure it out." He starts out in the shallow end, tries the water, then deeper, then discovers he will float, then a few kicks hanging on to the side of the pool, and so on.

It's kind of cool to remember that even an Olympic champion starts out that way - negotiating. But like I said, that's all part of learning the art of the impossible. I know it's especially rough for you young guys: dealing with parents or fosters, problems at school, all the mixed up feelings about growing up, thinking about the future, and on top of that coping with abuse that has ended just a few years - or months or weeks - ago. That's pretty raw stuff!

But you can do it; I think you all prove that just by finding the courage to come here. That's just cool beyond words. \:\)

Much love,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

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#169368 - 07/27/07 03:44 PM Re: Our Secret Doors [Re: roadrunner]
Cidnie Offline
Guest

Registered: 07/09/07
Posts: 113
Loc: SFC, CA
*throws in something randomly amusing*
But I can't swim! D:

_________________________
There is nothing natural about maturity in the physically immature. Maturity comes with wisdom, and wisdom comes with pain. Those of us with the greatest minds have endured the greatest torments.

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#169377 - 07/27/07 04:32 PM Re: Our Secret Doors [Re: shadowkid]
bp83 Offline
Member

Registered: 06/29/06
Posts: 111
Loc: Arkansas
I didn't know my big brother shouldn't have done that
I didn't know everything in my past could so easily be forgotten
I didn't know, and still don't know

_________________________
-
Scott

"Life is for living, we all know, and I don't want to live it alone..."-Chris Martin

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#169488 - 07/28/07 03:22 PM Re: Our Secret Doors [Re: bp83]
Alexander Offline
Member

Registered: 10/17/06
Posts: 223
Loc: The Netherlands
I didn't know that it was rape
I didn't know how adults are supposed to treat you (not like this)
I didn't know it was not my fault
I didn't know I didn't deserve it
I didn't know that there are people that would believe me
I didn't know that my parents were abusing my emotionally
I didn't know my parents were neglecting me
I didn't know that I deserved the attention I craved from my parents, but never got
I didn't know it was not my fault that (for telling on my parents 'friend') my parents kicked me out
I didn't know he and his friend were perps
I didn't know I would be able to tell on perp nr.3... - but I did!

_________________________
Come on, oh my star is fading
And I see no chance of release
And I know I'm dead on the surface
But I am screaming underneath

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#169504 - 07/28/07 04:40 PM Re: Our Secret Doors [Re: roadrunner]
MusicMan Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 11/23/03
Posts: 144
Loc: Elmira, NY
I absolutely agree with everyone, this is an incredible thread.

I didn't know that it had a name.
I didn't know that eachand every time it had the same name.

I could relate to almost every one of the "I didn't knows" that everyone posted. And I didn't know that all of them would make me cry. You all have touched my soul.


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#169509 - 07/28/07 04:55 PM Re: Our Secret Doors [Re: MusicMan]
Alexander Offline
Member

Registered: 10/17/06
Posts: 223
Loc: The Netherlands
I didn't know there was such a cool place on the web as MS!

_________________________
Come on, oh my star is fading
And I see no chance of release
And I know I'm dead on the surface
But I am screaming underneath

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#169550 - 07/28/07 08:26 PM Re: Our Secret Doors [Re: Alexander]
Xavier91 Offline
Guest

Registered: 06/11/07
Posts: 84
Cool thread... So here my attempt...

I didn't know what it was - after all i was only 5
I didn't know what sex was
I didn't know i was not responsible for my younger brothers while I myself was only 5,6,7,8 years old
I didn't know it was a bad thing what they did to me
I didn't know that adults aren't supposed to hurt you
I didn't know it was not my fault for ruining my mothers life, just cause she had me when she was 16
I didn't know it was not my job to keep my brothers safe
I didn't know i was not a bad person
I didn't know i did not deserve it
I didn't know that if i told anyone they might believe me
I didn't know that i could tell anyone
I didn't know it was not normal or okay for our mother to leave us alone for days
I didn't know it was a horrible thing that my mother sold me to random guys for drugs, booze ec.
I didn't know I was not a failure every time I failed to protect my brothers from beatings and not having anything to eat
I didn't know I was not a horrible person for being afraid of my mother and wishing she weren't around
I didn't know I was not a bad criminal for stealing the teachers lunch, or my mothers money, just cause I hadnt eaten the last 2,3 days
I didn't know this was not how the world was supposed to be

Wow... got carried away there a bit!

Xavier


_________________________
Rather laugh about what has been
Then fear what still comes, perhaps
Rather loving a big ghost
Then hating something that you can’t see

You are gone, but closer then ever

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#169559 - 07/28/07 08:55 PM Re: Our Secret Doors [Re: Xavier91]
RICK57 Offline
Member

Registered: 12/31/03
Posts: 1611
Loc: ENGLAND
I did know that my Uncle brought me sweets and brought sandwiches when we went for walks and it was OK. He also gave me pocket money, and it was OK.

I did know that when my Grandparents brought me sweets and brought sandwiches when we went for walks it was OK.
They also gave me pocket money.

When my cousins gave me sweets, and we went for walks it was OK.

I didn't know, when we moved town and all of those people weren't around, it was not OK for other people to take me on walks, give me sweets and sandwiches.

I didn't know that when they allowed me to shoot their air rifle , it was not OK.

I didn't know that firing their air rifle would give me a lifetime of 'triggers' (excuse the pun - no humour intended).

I didn't know that everyone else was not 'doing this & not talking about it.

I didn't know that there was such a thing as a paedophile and that it would be so much worse than anything that could be waiting under your bed if you didn't go to sleep! *Enter sandman!

I JUST DIDN'T KNOW - that's shouting!

Oh well - Rik

_________________________
*Never look down on anybody unless you're helping them up.
*I was seeking a way of expressing my anger - I found hope!
*There are many battles before the war is won! It can be won!

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#169703 - 07/29/07 10:43 PM Re: Our Secret Doors [Re: RICK57]
Stefan012 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 12/18/06
Posts: 281
Loc: The Netherlands
I didn't know what it was
I didn't know it was not ok
I didn't know I did not deserve it
I didn't know my father was to blame
I didn't know all of his friends where to blame
I didn't know the father in the foster family was to blame
I didn't know it was not my fault
I didn't know I could speak up about it
I didn't know anyone would believe me
I didn't know it did not happen in every other house as well
I didn't know it's not ok to be hit
I didn't know its not ok that all my father did was drink those last years
I didn't know it's ok to cry
I didn't know my mother should have protected me

_________________________
You lost the things that you thought you would never miss.
You let them out and miss them while they're gone
But there's memories down here and they will always live down here
No they can't take them away, so they won't

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#169746 - 07/30/07 06:20 AM Re: Our Secret Doors [Re: MusicMan]
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
MusicMan,

Originally Posted By: MusicMan
I could relate to almost every one of the "I didn't knows" that everyone posted. And I didn't know that all of them would make me cry. You all have touched my soul.


It's perhaps a good idea to ask why this touches us all so deeply. It's because all these "I didn't know"s - more than a hundred of them by now - are about a boy's innocence and defenselessness. Not just the very little boys, but all the teens and older guys who were abused too.

It also touches us because we all deserved so much better, and because that feeling of worthiness and goodness is something so many of us are still working on.

Much love,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

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#173693 - 08/16/07 03:56 PM Re: Our Secret Doors [Re: roadrunner]
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
The contents of this thread are pretty relevant to the discussion we have been having in another thread that Trevor started about a photo of his that he doesn't like. So I thought I would bump this back up for him, and others, to have a look.

Pretty powerful stuff! Here are all the reasons why we shouldn't hate the kids in those photos.

Much love,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

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#173714 - 08/16/07 05:53 PM Re: Our Secret Doors [Re: roadrunner]
bp83 Offline
Member

Registered: 06/29/06
Posts: 111
Loc: Arkansas
I didn't know my brother was a twat for not sticking up for me and protecting me from his friends, I didn't know that my name wasn't "hey faggot", I didn't know that my father STILL doesn't care, and I didn't know that even survivors would shun me sometimes

_________________________
-
Scott

"Life is for living, we all know, and I don't want to live it alone..."-Chris Martin

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#174195 - 08/18/07 08:33 PM Re: Our Secret Doors [Re: bp83]
greatscott Offline
New Here

Registered: 08/14/07
Posts: 16
I didn't know it wasn't normal
I didn't know it was not ok
I didn't know how my parents didn't know
I didn't know there was no love in our family
I didn't know why I wanted to be independant and away from my family
I didn't know how much it would affect me forever.


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#174213 - 08/18/07 09:48 PM Re: Our Secret Doors [Re: greatscott]
des6263 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 09/15/06
Posts: 137
Loc: midwest, US
I knew it wasn't normal
I knew it was not OK
I knew we shouldn't be doing it.

but I did it because I wanted his attention and love.

Brothers can be such shits!

_________________________
May the Flames of Truth Burn Bright

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#174239 - 08/19/07 03:16 AM Re: Our Secret Doors [Re: shadowkid]
endlessjourney Offline
Member

Registered: 11/01/05
Posts: 518
Loc: Cincinnati Ohio
Absolutely! One of the best posts I've ever seen.

I didn't know That I had the right to say no.
I didn't know that it is OK to say no.
I didn't know that I could still be loved if I did say no.
I didn't know that no matter how young I was, I ALWAYS have the right to say no.

Thanks Larry. You rock! For you old timers, that means you are a great person. LOL.

Jason

_________________________
Truth is the very reason we strive to live. It surrounds and resides within us. Accepting the truths we already know and seeking out those we do not is a direct path to inner balance and joy. For life is not a means to an end, but a journey. Life comes and goes but the truth will always live on.

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#174596 - 08/20/07 11:10 PM Re: Our Secret Doors [Re: Alexander]
KeithR Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/28/06
Posts: 363
Loc: Georgia
Originally Posted By: Alexander
I didn't know there was such a cool place on the web as MS!


I didn't know there was such a cool person on the Web as Alexander. Rest my friend. You came to this place just about a week before I did. You were very important to me when I came here. You still are. I will miss you.

Love,

Keith


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#197672 - 01/02/08 07:44 PM Re: Our Secret Doors [Re: roadrunner]
GateKPR4 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/28/07
Posts: 955
Loc: North Carolina, USA
1. I didn't know - how to react to awkward feelings.
2. I didn't know - I had a choice.
3. I didn't know - that anyone would believe me after my sister did not.
4. I didn't know - that I was being groomed.
5. I didn't know - Anyone cared
6. I didn't know - he was a psychopathic pedophile
7. I didn't know - I was the victim
8. I didn't know - he was messing with my head to keep control over me.
9. I didn't know - he was going to betray the friendship I thought we had
10. I didn't know - he would use anything to keep me from telling.
11. I didn't know - he would use my inner most secrets as a weapon to hurt me.
12. I didn't know - Who I was anymore!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
13. I didn't know - where to go for help
14. I didn't know - telling my story to you all would help me heal.
15. I didn't know - I was a good person going through a bad experience.
16. I didn't know - how to stand up for myself.
17. I didn't know - how to ask for help



Edited by GateKPR4 (01/02/08 07:51 PM)
_________________________
I'm a normal person dealing with abnormal experiences.
The greatest discoveries we will find within ourselves.
Ricky
__m_ô¿ô_m__
|| || || || || || |

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#197691 - 01/02/08 10:11 PM Re: Our Secret Doors [Re: GateKPR4]
evanesence Offline
Guest

Registered: 12/08/07
Posts: 119
i didn't know the hurt lasted forever


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#197703 - 01/02/08 11:19 PM Re: Our Secret Doors [Re: evanesence]
Paulmusicman Offline
New Here

Registered: 10/20/07
Posts: 7
Loc: Fargo, ND
i didn't know the intense pain that I carried inside all these years.....until it errupted 30 years later Bill


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#197709 - 01/02/08 11:27 PM Re: Our Secret Doors [Re: evanesence]
Paulmusicman Offline
New Here

Registered: 10/20/07
Posts: 7
Loc: Fargo, ND
I have been going through three years of intense therapy and pain stemming from the sexual abuse that I endured as a young child.....I didn't know the recovery and pain would be so intense....seems to last forever. I didn't know family would rather not be sympathetic....and that I would feel shunned at times.....I didn't know that my being a victim was such a problem for others.....if only they could feel the pain I feel, they would be more sympathetic. I'm so glad I can really know that you and others at MS can REALLY understand and finally someone can relate to what I'm going through. I'm with you man, the pain seems to go on forever. Bill


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#197718 - 01/03/08 12:39 AM Re: Our Secret Doors [Re: thecoopstah]
LandOfShadow Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/11/07
Posts: 684
Loc: Minneapolis, Minnesota USA
I didn't know I couldn't trust my own parents.
I didn't know adults could be such terrible liars.
I didn't know I could yell No! Stop it!
I didn't know I could eventually find someone to believe me.
I didn't know I couldn't just forget about it and it would go away.
I didn't know it was so bad because it kind of felt good.
I didn't know it wasn't my fault.

_________________________
Et par le pouvoir d’un mot Je recommence ma vie, Je suis né pour te connaître, Pour te nommer
Liberté

And by the power of a single word I can begin my life again, I was born to know you, to name you
Freedom

Paul Eluard

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#198265 - 01/06/08 05:14 PM Re: Our Secret Doors [Re: LandOfShadow]
VictoryisRs Offline
Guest

Registered: 12/13/07
Posts: 36
Loc: Seattle, WA
I didn't know-an uncle isn't supposed to touch you there
I didn't know-that nobody else knew or could come to my rescue
I didn't know-that abuse is abuse-whether a 'one-time' occurrence or chonic events over time-that it's equally wrong and damaging
I didn't know-he would wreck my Aunt's life too
I didn't know-there were adults you could trust w/ this secret
I didn't know-it would effect me into my adult life


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#198267 - 01/06/08 05:19 PM Re: Our Secret Doors [Re: VictoryisRs]
VictoryisRs Offline
Guest

Registered: 12/13/07
Posts: 36
Loc: Seattle, WA
Yesterday, a retired Tacoma police officer and his girlfriend were sentenced to 20 years in prison for several accounts of CSA. I didn't know that such ugliness still continues in the world around us.


(January 5, 2008,AP)A judge has sentenced a retired Tacoma police officer to spend more than 19 years in prison for child molestation.

Lee William Giles Jr. did not make a statement at his sentencing Friday. He frequently visited schools and appeared on television and radio during a 30-year police career before his retirement in 2000.

In November, Giles and his girlfriend, Maureen Wear, each pleaded guilty to first-degree child rape, second-degree child rape, first-degree child molestation and third-degree assault of a child. The charges involved young relatives.

As an officer, Giles appeared with Harvey, a talking motorcycle, in a grade school program designed to make police less scary, and was involved in the TV program "Behind the Shield."

Officials say there was no record of accusations of sexual misconduct by Giles while he was a Tacoma police officer.

Wear's sentencing hearing on Friday was postponed.


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#198294 - 01/06/08 07:17 PM Re: Our Secret Doors [Re: VictoryisRs]
Lazarus Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/01/07
Posts: 851
Loc: Below the radar, USA
Yes, this is not surprising to me. Since awareness of the truly devastating effect that child sexual abuse has on the victims and the increased public outcry to persue and prosecute offenders, many abusers have gone underground. The 'casual' abuser of decades ago, who just played with kids for fun without really intending great harm, has evolved into a serious, cunning, premeditating predator who is even harder to catch and more devastating in his brutality. They hide behind girlfriends, wives, career; anything that gives them credibility and access to children. It's far from the day when child molesters were simply run out of town.

But I don't know if I would say this is progress...???

Respectfully,

Lazarus

_________________________
"That which does not kill us, surely makes us stonger." - Neitsche

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#198363 - 01/07/08 05:35 AM Re: Our Secret Doors [Re: shadowkid]
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
Back in July of last year, when I started this thread, there were things I was dealing with that were still too raw - too vivid - for me to talk about. I could talk about the broken boy, but not the broken young man he became. But now that 20-year-old needs to speak:

I didn't know how hurt and broken I was.
I didn't know that drugs and alcohol would only make things worse.
I didn't know I was important and special, just as me.
I didn't know there could be any abuser worse than the first one.
I didn't know why I had to be beaten every day.
I didn't know I could just walk away from it forever.
I didn't know there was such a thing as safe people.
I didn't know how to accept their help.

Much love,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

Top
#198368 - 01/07/08 06:25 AM Re: Our Secret Doors [Re: roadrunner]
sabata Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/08/06
Posts: 1948
Thanks------Larry---Ditto-------Steve


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#198399 - 01/07/08 11:03 AM Re: Our Secret Doors [Re: MusicMan]
alexey Offline
Moderator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 08/16/05
Posts: 1674
Loc: Moscow, Russia
I did not know WHY they did it to me (never seen such animals before)

I did not know that it would hurt so much for YEARS

I did not know I was so bad they told me, and I know now they were wrong.

Alexey

_________________________
(\__/)
(='.'=)
E[:]|||||[:]3
(")_(")
--------
When you feel all alone and unhappy, turn to you Inner Child and talk to Him.
You will see He can comfort you like nothing else!

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#216835 - 04/09/08 01:45 PM Re: Our Secret Doors [Re: alexey]
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
Guys,

I have been asked to write this up for use as a recovery tool in survivor workshops. None of your names or screen names will be used, of course. I am just going to organize what everyone has said, so other guys will benefit from what we have learned.

If any of you have something further to add, please do so in the next few days. I will do the write-up over the weekend.

Thanks to all of you who have replied and read in this thread. By taking a few moments to share what YOU think or feel, you will be helping many guys now and in the future as they struggle with these same issues. I feel so blessed to know and work with you all.

Much love,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

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#216839 - 04/09/08 01:52 PM Re: Our Secret Doors [Re: roadrunner]
Freedom49 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/30/07
Posts: 2723
Loc: Washington State
Larry I would like to have a copy when your done if you don't mind. I think it would help.


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#216840 - 04/09/08 01:55 PM Re: Our Secret Doors [Re: Freedom49]
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
Roger,

Of course! I would be happy to do that. I will check to see if there's some way to put up a pdf file here on the DB.

Much love,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

Top
#216849 - 04/09/08 02:14 PM Re: Our Secret Doors [Re: roadrunner]
Magoo Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/04/08
Posts: 48
Loc: far, far away
I didn't know what he was doing to me was illegal.
I didn't know if my brothers found out, they would've killed him.
I didn't know it was wrong.
I didn't know I didn't deserve that.
I didn't know at 49 years old, it would come back and haunt me!
I didn't know I would not be able to have a normal, healthy, relationship with a woman I loved again.
I didn't know I could run away.
I didn't know my body was mine.

thanks,

M


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#216850 - 04/09/08 02:26 PM Re: Our Secret Doors [Re: Magoo]
OKIE MIKE Offline
Member

Registered: 02/13/04
Posts: 979
Loc: HULBERT OK
SHOULD OF FILED CHARGES AS SOON AS POSABLE

_________________________
MICHAEL

"I HAD NO SHOES THEN I SAW A MAN THAT HAD NO FEET"

"All I can do is be me, whoever that is"

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#216884 - 04/09/08 05:10 PM Re: Our Secret Doors [Re: roadrunner]
Trent Offline
New Here

Registered: 04/01/08
Posts: 7
I didn't know it wasn't a game
I didn't know it was wrong
I didn't know I could tell
I didn't know I wasn't to blame
I didn't know it would affect everything in my life
I didn't know that I could repress the memory
I didn't even know there was a memory to repress
I didn't even know there was anything to remember
I didn't know why I was at fault
I didn't know how to tell anyone
I didn't know where to turn
I didn't know why they beat me
I didn't know why they hated me
I didn't know why I didn't fight back
I didn't know why it was right for them to hurt me
I didn't know why it was wrong for me to hurt them
I didn't know why I was chased at every turn
I didn't know why no one would protect me
I didn't know why the protectors became the aggressors
I didn't know who to tell after the protectors attacked
I didn't know the physical wounds would heal to hide the emotional wounds
I didn't know what I didn't know


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#216886 - 04/09/08 05:47 PM Re: Our Secret Doors [Re: Trent]
king tut Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/13/08
Posts: 2466
Loc: UK
I didn't know i could say no
I didn't know what to do, so let him
I didn't know how deeply he was betraying and degrading me
I didn't know it wasn't his right as a brother to do it
I didn't know anybody would care, so didn't think to tell (doubt family would have cared)
I didn't know that i wasn't meant for him to play with
I didn't know that he would only get more confident with time

_________________________
"...until lambs become lions"

I love you, little lewis, and i will never leave you. We are the same. You brighten my day, and i will make sure that i brighten yours. Hugs and kisses.


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#217073 - 04/10/08 01:59 PM Re: Our Secret Doors [Re: roadrunner]
Roofus Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/24/08
Posts: 233
Loc: Utah
I didn't know that I wasn't the one committing the "sin,"
I didn't know there was a "secret door,"
I didn't know it would happen over, and over, and over,
I didn't know it was more than my body that was damaged,
I just didn't know


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#217082 - 04/10/08 02:27 PM Re: Our Secret Doors [Re: Roofus]
Freedom49 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/30/07
Posts: 2723
Loc: Washington State
I didn't know Dad could be wrong.
I didn't know Dad could be loving.
I didn't know sleeping with dad could hurt me.
I didn't know that doing stuff with him would mess me up.
I didn't know if he cared or not.
I didn't know it would hurt to explore stuff with my friends.
I didn't know it would make sex a bad thing.
I didn't know it would hurt people I love.
I didn't know therapy would cost so much.
I didn't know there were others like me.
I didn't know it was not my fault.
I didn't know what sex really was.
I dind't know how bad I would hurt.
I didn't know how long it would last.
I didn't know how to forgive myself.
I didn't know that I could actually be happy.
I didn't know I could be happy with a woman.
I didn't know I could be a husband.
I didn't know I could be a real dad.
I didn't know you guys were here waiting to help me heal.
I didn't know I could heal.
I didn't know how much I would love all of you men.
I didn't know I could love men.
I didn't know that I would find peace in that.
I didn't know having a teddy bear of my very own would make me cry at 59 years old.



Edited by Freedom49 (04/10/08 02:28 PM)

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#217231 - 04/11/08 12:26 AM Re: Our Secret Doors [Re: Freedom49]
grover Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/28/07
Posts: 50
Loc: Tennessee
I didn't know what else to do.

_________________________
Shocking revelations, we are all deeply effected.
-the Waitresses "Wise up"

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#217241 - 04/11/08 02:07 AM Re: Our Secret Doors [Re: roadrunner]
Marcus Mystery Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/02/08
Posts: 195
I didn't know someone would care.
I didn't know there were guys like me


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#218503 - 04/16/08 08:57 AM Re: Our Secret Doors [Re: Marcus Mystery]
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
Just a note to let you all know that I have written this up now. I'm not sure how to make it available here without losing the formatting, but I'm looking into that.

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

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#218661 - 04/17/08 12:21 AM Re: Our Secret Doors [Re: roadrunner]
ericc Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/04/08
Posts: 1961
I wanted to add to this one for a while:

I didn't know that saying No wasn't enough.
I didn't know I didn't need to go on when it wasn't.
I didn't know how badly it would affect my life.
Even though my life was then slipping into a bad place, I didn't know enough to even recognize it was happening.

Once I recovered my memories:

I didn't know what had actually happened.
I didn't know I could talk about these things.
I didn't know trying to will all the memories away was so destructive.
I just didn't know what to do.


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#218772 - 04/17/08 04:03 PM Re: Our Secret Doors [Re: shadowkid]
Jeff Amsel Offline


Registered: 04/14/08
Posts: 17
Loc: NJ
I didn't know Mother's do that to her son
I didn't know Mother's do that
I didn't know Mother's do that
etc
etc
etc
etc


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#218883 - 04/18/08 09:11 AM Re: Our Secret Doors [Re: Jeff Amsel]
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
Eric and Jeff,

Thanks for your input. I have added your thoughts to the text. If others wish to make further additions here, please do so and I will keep adding them.

A few brothers here are reading my text for me and noting a certain element of repetition. I need to address that problem over the weekend.

Much love,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

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#258594 - 10/28/08 05:44 PM Re: Our Secret Doors [Re: roadrunner]
greenspan Offline


Registered: 10/24/08
Posts: 8
Loc: Kansas
I didn't know that it was wrong at first and i mistook it for affection/love.
I didn't know how or where to get affection/it was my only source at the time.
I didn't know that one does not have to "pay" or sacrifice some thing to be loved.
I didn't know that I could say "No" at anytime.
I didn't know that he really did not care about ME, it was about him.

Thanks Roadrunner, this helps.

greenspan


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#258694 - 10/29/08 12:34 AM Re: Our Secret Doors [Re: greenspan]
Liri Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor
New Here

Registered: 12/27/07
Posts: 127
Loc: Seattle, WA
I didn't know who I was.
I didn't know I was born into an abusive family.
I didn't know you weren't supposed to be suicidal at 9 yrs old.
I didn't know what innocence was and I didn't know I'd lost it.
I didn't know it was unnatural to be terrorized.
I didn't understand why I was so hypersexualized.
I didn't know it was okay to be gay.
I didn't know why society hated me so much.
I didn't know my wiring had gotten crossed.
I didn't know I'd end up in a psych ward by age 17.
I didn't know I could have escaped if I'd tried.
I didn't know that it was okay to love my life.
I didn't know there were others just like me.

_________________________
As a small child, I felt in my heart two contradictory feelings, the horror of life and the ecstasy of life. --Charles Baudelaire

My Story

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#258696 - 10/29/08 12:36 AM Re: Our Secret Doors [Re: Liri]
EGL Offline
Moderator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 06/19/04
Posts: 7821
Thanks for resurrecting a great thread, guys. This is one of the most powerful ones I've ever seen here.

_________________________
Eddie

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#258733 - 10/29/08 08:00 AM Re: Our Secret Doors [Re: EGL]
JBells Offline


Registered: 10/21/08
Posts: 218
Loc: Juneau
I didn't know it wasn't my fault. Until I came here.
jb


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#258737 - 10/29/08 08:12 AM Re: Our Secret Doors [Re: roadrunner]
Sans Logos Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/31/03
Posts: 5791
Loc: in my own world in pittsburgh,...
i didn't know that i didn't know

_________________________
  1. the past
  2. ReClaiming Now
  3. advocacy


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#265422 - 12/05/08 02:26 PM Re: Our Secret Doors [Re: Sans Logos]
tazrad Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/22/08
Posts: 88
Loc: FL USA
I didn't know it was wrong.
I didn't know that I should have gotten help then.
I didn't know that I need help.
I didn't know it was his fault.
I didn't know how it would affect me.
I didn't know what to do.

Tazrad


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#265431 - 12/05/08 02:59 PM Re: Our Secret Doors [Re: tazrad]
lars3229 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/03/08
Posts: 800
Loc: Iowa
Perfect, tazrad.

That sums up so much in so few words. Tt really hits home. I might even have to print that out and frame it. I didn't know, but I'm so glad I do now.

Thanks a ton. smile

_________________________
You may trod me
in the very dirt
But still,
like dust,
I'll rise.

-Maya Angelou

"I quite often remember to forget these sorts of things."
-Winnie the Pooh, The Tigger Movie

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#265432 - 12/05/08 03:04 PM Re: Our Secret Doors [Re: lars3229]
lars3229 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/03/08
Posts: 800
Loc: Iowa
I didn't know he could do so much harm.
I didn't know staying silent could hurt so much.
I didn't know how to scream.
I didn't know how to talk ask for help.
I didn't know I wasn't alone.

_________________________
You may trod me
in the very dirt
But still,
like dust,
I'll rise.

-Maya Angelou

"I quite often remember to forget these sorts of things."
-Winnie the Pooh, The Tigger Movie

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#269046 - 12/28/08 11:42 AM Re: Our Secret Doors [Re: shadowkid]
DMCarrollG Offline


Registered: 06/08/08
Posts: 22
Loc: Brooklyn, NY United States
Wow...

This is an incredible exercise. This list was amazing to read... this collection of men and incredible voice to find solace in... the continued end of isolation and fear of being alone with this.

I wanted to list not only ones of my own, but some of the items that spoke to me from the other men here. Thank you Larry and all. This was powerful and a wonderful way to begin my Sunday- in knowing what I didn't know then, giving gratitude that there is so much I can now know and trust.

I DIDN'T KNOW what sex was
I DIDN'T KNOW that I wasn't supposed to know, at 8, what sex was
I DIDN'T KNOW that it was wrong for men to have sex with me
I DIDN'T KNOW that it was the adults responsibility to stop this, not mine
I DIDN'T KNOW someone I trusted could hurt me
I DIDN'T KNOW I would be believed if I was told
I DIDN'T KNOW my body is private and belongs to me and me alone
I DIDN'T KNOW that it was wrong and not affection/love
I DIDN'T KNOW that I needed affection/attention
I DIDN'T KNOW it didn't start with me
I DIDN'T KNOW it was he, not both of us, who would get in trouble
I DIDN'T KNOW that it was not the same in other homes
I DIDN'T KNOW that adults could be wrong
I DIDN'T KNOW that adults made mistakes
I DIDN'T KNOW it wasn't normal
I DIDN'T KNOW it wasn't about me
I DIDN'T KNOW I could heal
I DIDN'T KNOW I couldn't erase it
I DIDN'T KNOW it was set-up
I DIDN'T KNOW that I didn't know
I DIDN'T KNOW that as a survivor os sexual abuse, I was in fact "normal."
I DIDN'T KNOW that I had a right to grow into my sexuality, discover it for myself, and enjoy it
I DIDN'T KNOW That being shown pornography consistently was conditioning me... and that as an adult, I was just acting out what I learned
I DIDN'T KNOW that I was a good boy, young man, man
I DIDN'T KNOW that my defenses were there to help me survive
I DIDN'T KNOW that my father was not a father, and never could be
I DIDN'T KNOW that my mother had been raped and abused as well
I DIDN'T KNOW that my parents were once helpless children too... and in ways still were
I DIDN'T KNOW my parents limitations were not my concern
I DIDN'T KNOW I wasn't supposed to be taking care of ANYONE, including myself
I DIDN'T KNOW that there were small salvations and angels always
I DIDN'T KNOW that I would live through it
I DIDN'T KNOW that I could live with it
I DIDN'T KNOW that I am not unloveable
I DIDN'T KNOW that I am not worthless
I DIDN'T KNOW that I am not sick
I DIDN'T KNOW that I would one day be live the life of my childhood dreams
I DIDN'T KNOW that I would one day find moments, even just one, of peace
I DIDN'T KNOW there were others who were abused too
I DIDN'T KNOW there were people who would help me, accept me, and love me
I DIDN'T KNOW how strong I was... how strong I would grow to be
I DIDN'T KNOW that I would realize I'm gay and it wasn't my fault or the abuses fault
I DIDN'T KNOW there was nothing to be ashamed of
I DIDN'T KNOW that I am and have always been innocent

_________________________
http://davidfmartinez.posterous.com/

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#269047 - 12/28/08 11:46 AM Re: Our Secret Doors [Re: DMCarrollG]
beakin Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/13/08
Posts: 44
Loc: Texas
There are some great things here. I'm with Sans Logos, though.

I didn't know that I didn't know. That speaks volumes to me. And, explains so much.



ben

_________________________
Only you can do it, but you cannot do it alone.

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#269051 - 12/28/08 12:07 PM Re: Our Secret Doors [Re: beakin]
DMCarrollG Offline


Registered: 06/08/08
Posts: 22
Loc: Brooklyn, NY United States
beakin- love your signature!

_________________________
http://davidfmartinez.posterous.com/

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#269059 - 12/28/08 03:27 PM Re: Our Secret Doors [Re: DMCarrollG]
pufferfish Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/26/08
Posts: 6852
Loc: USA
This is an excellent thread.

Allen

pufferfish whistle


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#269111 - 12/28/08 09:47 PM Re: Our Secret Doors [Re: pufferfish]
oriolesguy Offline


Registered: 08/12/08
Posts: 106
Loc: Long Island, NY
I didn't know that it would hurt my wife, too
I didn't know it would hurt all my relationships
I didn't know how many others had the same thing happen
I didn't know that it was OK to be confused
I didn't know anything other than guilt and shame
I didn't know that I have to stop blaming myself for all the shit
I didn't know that I would someday have the courage to post my story
I didn't know that I was still a person, a man, and worth a little something, at least
I didn't know that I could get up again, recoup, and live.

Thanks guys. I'm choked up over this. God in heaven. Thank you all.

Oriolesguy


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#269154 - 12/29/08 01:56 AM Re: Our Secret Doors [Re: oriolesguy]
petercorbett Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/27/08
Posts: 2435
Loc: TEXAS
I, didn't know that my "mother" would destroy her son, sexually, emotionally, physically and mentally.

I,didn't know that my main sexual abuser really didn't love this worthless, useless and would never amount anything young boy.

I, didn't know that those masturbating and BJ sessions with my cousin was wrong as a young boy.

I, didn't know that going with those strange men was wrong.

I, didn't know that 69 years later that little Peter would come and remember what happened to our youth.

I, didn't know that right now I would be paying the mental price for enjoying it, wanting it, instigated it and making me feel good.

I, didn't know me until now.

Heal well my brothers/friends.
Pete (Irishmoose)



Edited by petercorbett (12/29/08 12:01 PM)
_________________________
Working Boys' Home 10-14 yrs old, grades 5-8. 1949-1953
____________________________________________________________
A very humble alumni of the WOR Dahlonega, GA.
May 15-17 2009, Alta, Sep. 2009. Sequoia, 2010.
Hope Springs, 2010.


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#269709 - 01/02/09 05:17 PM Re: Our Secret Doors [Re: petercorbett]
DMCarrollG Offline


Registered: 06/08/08
Posts: 22
Loc: Brooklyn, NY United States
Pete: "I didn't know me until now."

Amazing one.

_________________________
http://davidfmartinez.posterous.com/

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#269712 - 01/02/09 05:33 PM Re: Our Secret Doors [Re: Roofus]
nocona Offline


Registered: 12/17/08
Posts: 33
Loc: western usa
I didn't know that I could/would buy-in to the lie for so many years.
I didn't know that "that identity" was not my own.


*********

I'd like to share the full version of this with my partner but as a separate doc - keep looking for a way to publish this.

_________________________
nocona

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#269855 - 01/04/09 09:24 AM Re: Our Secret Doors [Re: nocona]
Geeders Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 09/03/08
Posts: 1901
Loc: Peterborough, Ontario, Canada
I didn't know that I've been avoiding this post for a week since I first saw it. Like the plague.
I didn't know that what it evokes in me causes great pain.
I didn't know that it would make me want to cry.
I didn't know that it would make me want to scream to the world that "I'm a Survivor" but first the world needs to learn what that means.
I didn't know that even writing this post makes me tremble.
I didn't know, until right now, that I really, really need to get a few things off my chest, so here goes.

I didn't know, like Oriolesguy, how much this would hurt my wife and family. I had no idea.
I didn't know that I could feel such regret for the way I have been, the way I have acted. Such regret.
I didn't know that I could feel anything, again. And now that I do it scares the shit out of me somedays. The good, the bad and the ugly. I feel like an abacus in a micro-processor world its been that long.
I didn't know that once I started this journey there was no turning back. Not an option. I'm in control now. That bastard's secret is out, and now powerless.
I didn't know that having such control, would make me feel so lonely some days. A one man show, despite having a supporting cast of thousands of wonderful, and loving men and women.
I didn't know that I would miss my WoR brothers so much as I do. I really do.
I didn't know that when I stopped feeling guilty, and shamed that it would empower me to help other men. Help them to even consider for the first time in their lives going on their own journey.
I didn't know that when I see them in pain and turmoil it would make me want to scream-see above. I guess this is good as it used to make me feel like I was dying a bit inside.
I didn't know that this would make me feel, there's that word again, so vulnerable. And yet wanting and willing to risk. To trust.
I didn't know that the road would be so clear. So clear. Yet the road is covered in dense fog at times. Other people's fog. Its protects them from me, and what I need to say. What they need to know, To learn.
I didn't know that having a T would be so helpful to me, or that I would miss her so much over these past holiday weeks.
I didn't know that as I progress in T that I would remember stuff, ugly stuff, stuff I don't WANT to remember. But I also remember that I am starting to feel again. Its all a package deal I suppose. Process those feelings. (Prawcess if it makes you feel any better H.)
I didn't know that emotional cycling, up, down, inside and out could happen to me so quickly. Faster than a speeding bullet. But as I learn to take better conrol, it will slow down.
I didn't know that I am starting to have faith again. Small, almost imperceptibe snippets, but its there.
I didn't know that I could identify as much as I did with those couragous men in "Chosen". Groomed, used, abused. Sexually and emotionally. And now that its out there, I hope Tom, Mark and Alastair are ok.
I didn't know that the issue of disclosing to my parents would cause me such turmoil. They're both in their 80's. What need am I addressing in telling them? My need to tell?, Do they need to know? What good would it serve? What damage would it cause?
I didn't know that triggers can actually help me learn more about myself, and how to stay in control.
I didn't know that control would become such a huge issue for my wife and I. Its a new game now, a new me, and its going to take a while to figure out the new guidelines.
I didn't know, I had no idea, that what happened so long ago could have been so damaging, so encompasing, so consuming, that it caused me to have the blackest thoughts of my life.
I didn't know that now, having recognized how black things were, that the road ahead would be so difficult.
I didn't know I couldn't do it without all you guys. You know who you are. I love you!
I didn't know that so much patience was required to make this journey a success.

I didn't know that I would feel so much better having written this rant. I might add to this list again. Thanks for taking the time to read it.

Jim

_________________________
My name is Jim
WoR Mysthaven 2008, Level 2 WoR Alta 2009, Kirkridge 2010, 2011, Oprah 200 men

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#269857 - 01/04/09 10:01 AM Re: Our Secret Doors [Re: oriolesguy]
KENKEN Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 09/25/07
Posts: 762
Loc: NOTHERN COLORADO
I didn't know it would not go away
I didn't know it was so confusing
I didn't know most people do not understnd
I didn't know it effects so many aspects of my life
I didn't know I had an inner child who was so hurt
I didn't know as an adult I could cry like a baby
I didn't know how good a little stuffed animal could make me feel
I didn't know my best friends and family would think I am crazy
I didn't know my perpetrator would not admit to what he did to me
I didn't know my perpetrator would pass it off as childs play
I didn't know how unfair life really is
I didn't know how much I hated myself
I don't really know just who I am!

Ken

_________________________
I AM A GOOD PERSON, I AM A GOOD MAN

From the Movie: Antwone Fisher

***WOR ALUMNI SEQUOIA MARCH 2008***

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#270213 - 01/07/09 09:42 AM Re: Our Secret Doors [Re: DMCarrollG]
petercorbett Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/27/08
Posts: 2435
Loc: TEXAS
Hi DMCarrolG, I just finished reading your brooklynbonfire story. real tragic, real courage by yourself too. We boys sure have a lot to overcome, but we also have a lot to hope for, luckily I have this website, I have REAL brothers/friends, we have been there, we are still trying to find our way out from the darkness, out from the depths of hell and our very souls, into the sunlight. It sure is a dangerous and painful journey for us all. But, a new year, new hope and hopefully new healing. Heal well my brothers/friends.
Pete (Irishmoose)

_________________________
Working Boys' Home 10-14 yrs old, grades 5-8. 1949-1953
____________________________________________________________
A very humble alumni of the WOR Dahlonega, GA.
May 15-17 2009, Alta, Sep. 2009. Sequoia, 2010.
Hope Springs, 2010.


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#270392 - 01/08/09 03:46 PM Re: Our Secret Doors [Re: oriolesguy]
dusty42 Offline


Registered: 09/24/08
Posts: 111
Loc: Kentucky
Dusty42 had deleted this message. I know longer feel safe here.



Edited by dusty42 (03/18/09 02:04 PM)
Edit Reason: I no longer feel safe here
_________________________
Pinky: "Gee Brain, what do you want to do tonight?"
The Brain: "The same thing we do every night, Pinky—try to take over the world."

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#270671 - 01/10/09 09:51 AM Re: Our Secret Doors [Re: roadrunner]
nathan555 Offline


Registered: 01/06/09
Posts: 230
Loc: Australia
you make a profound statement

1. I didn't know it was sex.

certainly not at 2 or 11 as in my case

you have given me something to work on

I have a right to say "how dare they" I didn't even know what they were doing

I became confused

isolated

disconected

left with feelings I didn't want
didn't understand

bastards !

_________________________
5 depending on God's grace gives hope
6 my dark side , my hurt inner being my struggle
8 looking to the day of overcomming

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#274388 - 02/07/09 11:49 PM Re: Our Secret Doors [Re: roadrunner]
EGL Offline
Moderator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 06/19/04
Posts: 7821
Originally Posted By: roadrunner
In a recent thread I raised the point that there are so many things that a young boy doesn't know - things that, if he had known them, might have enabled him to keep safe. My point was that if a boy doesn't know his options or rights, in what meaningful sense can we say he really has them? If he doesn't understand what's going on at the most basic level, how can he bear any responsibility for those actions?

I illustrated this by comparing our situation to that of someone who gets burned in a fire and then in the hospital someone asks, "Oh, why didn't you walk clear of the fire through the secret door?" If the victim didn't even know such a door existed, did he have the choice of using that door?

That comment provoked some positive comments, and that made me think, hey, let's talk about this. What "secret doors" did we have that might have saved us from abuse, but were never really available to us because we just didn't know they existed?

I think this could be important because we too often blame ourselves and feel ashamed for the abuse, asking such questions as "Why didn't I say no?", "Why didn't I tell?", "Why did I just let him do it?", and so on. When we think like this, however, we are talking about "secret doors" - things we can easily see now as mature adults or older teens, but which were unknown to us back when we were little.


Bumping this back up for the newer guys. This is one of my favorite threads here that I have gotten a lot of healing from.

_________________________
Eddie

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#274429 - 02/08/09 11:55 AM Re: Our Secret Doors [Re: EGL]
Survivinguy Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/22/09
Posts: 310
Loc: Colorado
Thanks EGL

Being one of the newer guys - it's overwhelming to think of how much information is on this site that I have yet to explore - bringing some of the insightful posts to the surface is a great help!

Thx!!

_________________________
Survivinguy

============================================
I have to survive and I hope to thrive.

Alumni Dahlonega WoR May 2010
Alumni Sequoia WoR March 2012

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#274433 - 02/08/09 12:15 PM Re: Our Secret Doors [Re: Survivinguy]
christianfather Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/04/08
Posts: 116
Loc: TN
Originally Posted By: Survivinguy
Thanks EGL

Being one of the newer guys - it's overwhelming to think of how much information is on this site that I have yet to explore -



I have to agree. The vast resources this site has is incredible. I have gained more knowledge about myself and the fact that I am not a freak has benefited me more in the past few months than I have gotten in years with my T.


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#274439 - 02/08/09 12:31 PM Re: Our Secret Doors [Re: Geeders]
Survivinguy Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/22/09
Posts: 310
Loc: Colorado
Originally Posted By: Geeders
I didn't know that...


I didn't know that reading a post from a complete stranger would make me cry today.

Thanks Geeders - whoever you are.

_________________________
Survivinguy

============================================
I have to survive and I hope to thrive.

Alumni Dahlonega WoR May 2010
Alumni Sequoia WoR March 2012

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#274699 - 02/10/09 10:21 AM Re: Our Secret Doors [Re: Survivinguy]
mama Offline


Registered: 12/06/08
Posts: 8
hi

The post you brought up. When my son got abused at school his class was lurning about "you rights" your body is your own and things like that. he told what was happening to him and he got rideculed by even the headmaster.

So doors are things grownups says are their and you can go through but those are just lies they tell to make them selfs feel better


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#274747 - 02/10/09 09:39 PM Re: Our Secret Doors [Re: Survivinguy]
Geeders Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 09/03/08
Posts: 1901
Loc: Peterborough, Ontario, Canada
You're welcome. Left a PM for you.

Jim

_________________________
My name is Jim
WoR Mysthaven 2008, Level 2 WoR Alta 2009, Kirkridge 2010, 2011, Oprah 200 men

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#274748 - 02/10/09 10:01 PM Re: Our Secret Doors [Re: mama]
Geeders Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 09/03/08
Posts: 1901
Loc: Peterborough, Ontario, Canada
Evening mama:

Are you referring to my specific post or the thread (idea)? If you have found something unsavoury or objectionable in my post I would invite you to send me a PM about it so we can discuss it.

If, on the other hand you found the thread objectionable, I believe that it was intended as a venting tool that enabled the participants to focus on the many facets of their abuse that impacted them greatly. I certainly found it a useful experience that enabled me to be able to step back for a moment, take a few deep breaths, and try to assess what has actually happened in my life. Taking those moments to reflect helped me define future goals, as well as address old wounds.

Giving oneself permission to step back to reflect, and assess, can provide a focus that often is missing in our lives as we try to process all the pain that comes with abuse. I believe the thread was appropriate, and useful.

If I understand you correctly you are saying that you didn't know that the school system, and the headmaster, was just playing with words, and that they really didn't mean what they said about having rights to control our bodies. You didn't know that they lied just to feel better about themselves, and attempt to meet current standards for ensuring that abuse is reported to the proper authorities, and dealt with appropriately. You didn't know that an entire school system, and the school administration could fail your son and you so badly. As a survivor, and a parent I can feel your pain. Please do not, however lose faith. The systems that educate our children around the world are slowly changing to meet the needs of all children. It may not be fast enough for you right now, but it is changing. Having spent 16 years working in Child Welfare, I have seen these changes happen. Systems change faster than people though, especially when it involves people believeing that boys cannot be abused. Much work needs to be done.

Take Care mama, and keep caring!
Jim

_________________________
My name is Jim
WoR Mysthaven 2008, Level 2 WoR Alta 2009, Kirkridge 2010, 2011, Oprah 200 men

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#274949 - 02/12/09 01:54 PM Re: Our Secret Doors [Re: Geeders]
dusty42 Offline


Registered: 09/24/08
Posts: 111
Loc: Kentucky
Dusty42 has deleted this message. I no longer feel safe here.



Edited by dusty42 (03/18/09 02:00 PM)
Edit Reason: I no longer feel safe here
_________________________
Pinky: "Gee Brain, what do you want to do tonight?"
The Brain: "The same thing we do every night, Pinky—try to take over the world."

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#275202 - 02/14/09 04:57 AM Re: Our Secret Doors [Re: dusty42]
b869 Offline


Registered: 01/26/09
Posts: 767
Loc: Philippines
I didn't know I can't ignore my abuse
I didn't know that there are things worse then death
I didn't know going out of my hiding place would make things better
I didn't know telling someone what happens helps w/ the healing
I didn't know people care
I didn't know this site could really help me
I didn't know I didn't deserve it
I didn't know how much it affected me
I didn't know I would regret the things I have done to forget

_________________________

When thing get complicated go back to simplicity

Harvey Fierstein
Never be bullied into silence. Never allow yourself to be made a victim. Accept no one's definition of your life; define yourself.

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#275320 - 02/15/09 01:21 AM Re: Our Secret Doors [Re: b869]
Trucker51 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/20/08
Posts: 2826
Loc: Denver, CO
I didn't know I can't ignore my abuse: Things will continue to get worse if you ignore your abuse.

I didn't know that there are things worse then death: See the first sentence and answer.

I didn't know going out of my hiding place would make things better: Finding and working with other survivors helps us feel less alone.

I didn't know telling someone what happens helps w/ the healing: When you are comfortable talking about it, you are almost there.

I didn't know people care: We do care about you and everyone here too.

I didn't know this site could really help me: Yes, this site is an extraordinary tool that can help you and many other survivors too.

I didn't know I didn't deserve it: You didn't deserve it, and it wasn't your fault. You deserve a life unhindered by your past.

I didn't know how much it affected me: You are not alone. The effects continue to affect your personal growth for life if unresolved.

I didn't know I would regret the things I have done to forget: But don't let it bother you, because you are here now, and you are worth it.

Keep coming back, my man. Alone we can't, together we can.

Mark

_________________________
"We stay here, we die here. We've got to keep moving". Trucker Mark



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#281023 - 03/27/09 11:04 AM Re: Our Secret Doors [Re: Trucker51]
Survivinguy Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/22/09
Posts: 310
Loc: Colorado
I didn't know how incredibly isolating it would be:
- Isolating because of the shame so you don't tell anyone.
- Isolating because non-survivors don't understand.
- Isolating because the emotions are so overwhelming,
overpowering that you just want to crawl into a hole and
even avoid fellow survivors or the few people that do know.
- Isolating because you feel worthless and used and useless.
- Isolating because you feel stupid for feeling this way about
something that happened decades ago.
- Isolating because you want to delete this post because it
feels either stupid or too vulnerable.


_________________________
Survivinguy

============================================
I have to survive and I hope to thrive.

Alumni Dahlonega WoR May 2010
Alumni Sequoia WoR March 2012

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#281028 - 03/27/09 11:44 AM Re: Our Secret Doors [Re: Survivinguy]
overcomer4life Offline


Registered: 02/25/09
Posts: 198
*tears*


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#281065 - 03/27/09 04:35 PM Re: Our Secret Doors [Re: Survivinguy]
Jethro8 Offline


Registered: 03/16/09
Posts: 29

I didn't know that at age 4 I was the innocent party.

I didn't know that all the sexual crap in my life was only acting out in response.

I didn't know that my mother really cared.

I didn't know that my coping mechanism of denial and avoidance would screw up my life, my marriage, my wife and kids that I love.

I didn't know that I could have caring fellow survivor male friends.

I didn't know that I would find a web site like MS that shows me I'm not a freak and alone but there is a better way.

Praise God.

_________________________

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#306586 - 10/15/09 03:24 PM Re: Our Secret Doors [Re: Jethro8]
Geeders Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 09/03/08
Posts: 1901
Loc: Peterborough, Ontario, Canada
Bump!

_________________________
My name is Jim
WoR Mysthaven 2008, Level 2 WoR Alta 2009, Kirkridge 2010, 2011, Oprah 200 men

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#306588 - 10/15/09 04:00 PM Re: Our Secret Doors [Re: Geeders]
DJsport Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/20/08
Posts: 1742
Excellent thread.

I DIDN"T KNOW it wasn't my fault
I DIDN"T KNOW it was his sickness
I DIDN"T KNOW it was wrong
I DIDN"T KNOW it was abuse
I DIDN"T KNOW he would get into big trouble
I DIDN"T KNOW he was robbing me of my comfort
I DIDN"T KNOW it was not normal

Whew!!!

One day these will just roll off my tongue with NO sense of betrayal and disgust.

Peace,
DJ

_________________________
Live to your fullest potential

Never make someone a priority if your only an option

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#306636 - 10/15/09 09:54 PM Re: Our Secret Doors [Re: DJsport]
Geeders Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 09/03/08
Posts: 1901
Loc: Peterborough, Ontario, Canada
It will come DJ, sooner than perhaps you are currently thinking.

Jim

_________________________
My name is Jim
WoR Mysthaven 2008, Level 2 WoR Alta 2009, Kirkridge 2010, 2011, Oprah 200 men

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#306712 - 10/16/09 02:42 PM Re: Our Secret Doors [Re: Geeders]
aaderb Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/16/09
Posts: 16
Loc: London, On Canada
I DIDN'T KNOW it was abuse and not love
I DIDN'T KNOW how terrified little me was
I DIDN'T KNOW where a broken me could mend

I thank everyone who has written here
We are truly not alone

_________________________
May God guide me and others to a place of true healing

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#306764 - 10/16/09 11:40 PM Re: Our Secret Doors [Re: overcomer4life]
Tedure Offline


Registered: 04/17/09
Posts: 203
Loc: Utah
I didn't know where love was.

But I do Now!

Thanks for the great post!!!

Ted

_________________________
When you change the way you look at things the things you look at change.

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#306852 - 10/17/09 05:53 PM Re: Our Secret Doors [Re: Tedure]
Logan Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/05/03
Posts: 1205
Loc: NY
Agreed DJ. EXCELLENT Thread!

Logan

_________________________
"Terrible thing to live in Fear"-Shawshank Redemption
WOR Alumnus Hope Springs 2009
"Quite a thing to live in fear, this is what is means to be a slave"
-Blade Runner

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#306994 - 10/18/09 09:30 PM Re: Our Secret Doors [Re: shadowkid]
wondering Offline


Registered: 10/16/09
Posts: 10
Loc: LI N.Y.
I didn't know about this website, now I know!

_________________________
"start liking yourself first and the healing will come"

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#307053 - 10/19/09 03:38 AM Re: Our Secret Doors [Re: wondering]
OKIE MIKE Offline
Member

Registered: 02/13/04
Posts: 979
Loc: HULBERT OK
I know where my doors are . I peaked into one and it scared me so mad that I neaver want to open it again .

_________________________
MICHAEL

"I HAD NO SHOES THEN I SAW A MAN THAT HAD NO FEET"

"All I can do is be me, whoever that is"

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#315580 - 12/21/09 07:45 PM Re: Our Secret Doors [Re: OKIE MIKE]
Regs Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/03/08
Posts: 149
Loc: Oklahoma


I DIDN'T KNOW that I could be safe in telling
I DIDN'T KNOW that it was not my fault
I DIDN'T KNOW the abuse would isolate me from friends and family
I DIDN'T KNOW I could get better
I DIDN'T KNOW that my story could help others
I DIDN'T KNOW I could help prevent childhood sexual abuse
I DIDN'T KNOW
I just didn't know

I am so, so sorry that I did not know. ...so sorry.

Wow, what a powerful and long lived post. Thank you Larry.

NOW I KNOW! Now I know.

_________________________
WoR Sequoia Alumni, April 2010

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#315590 - 12/21/09 08:32 PM Re: Our Secret Doors [Re: Regs]
Tuggs Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/20/07
Posts: 53
Loc: Pensacola, Florida, USA.
I DIDN'T KNOW it would be my first memory.
I DIDN'T KNOW they already knew.
I DIDN'T KNOW I'd feel so worthless.
I DIDN'T KNOW church was not safe.
I DIDN'T KNOW I'd be hated.
I DIDN'T KNOW I could be a fragment.
I DIDN'T KNOW csa predisposes one to a(dult)sa.
I DIDN'T KNOW I could not trust anyone.
I DIDN'T KNOW I could be loved.
I DIDN'T KNOW to live for myself.
I DIDN'T KNOW all men were not bad.
I DIDN'T KNOW if I could do this list.
I DIDN'T KNOW I would hurt more now, than I did then.

I think I got this all wrong in re-reading the above posts. I will submit it anyway as it is truth.

I DIDN'T KNOW I could tell the whole truth.

Rob

PS. Powerful thread! Thank you!



Edited by Tuggs (12/21/09 08:43 PM)
Edit Reason: added "not" for all men were not bad.
_________________________
“I’m alive. You’re alive. Want to play?”
-Judah Rosner

My Story

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#337819 - 08/07/10 11:28 AM Re: Our Secret Doors [Re: Tuggs]
Geeders Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 09/03/08
Posts: 1901
Loc: Peterborough, Ontario, Canada
Bump! For the new folks who haven't seen this before.

Jim

_________________________
My name is Jim
WoR Mysthaven 2008, Level 2 WoR Alta 2009, Kirkridge 2010, 2011, Oprah 200 men

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#337823 - 08/07/10 12:18 PM Re: Our Secret Doors [Re: roadrunner]
kidneythis Offline


Registered: 11/08/09
Posts: 1558
Some of us did tell and were punished for it with more abuse and more isolation. Some of us had no one to trust to tell and in my case when I did eventually come to know someone who cared I had been abused for so long and was so confused as well as being still subject to the abuse between contact with this person I was beaten down by the lack of action to help me. No one seemed to be adult enough or strong enough to stand up and say this shit has got to stop or failing that just simply pick me up and walk away with me to protect me.

There is no secret door for kids in the same situation, every alleged secret door lead only to more abuse and reinforcement of the idea that no one cares, even the behavior of those who said they cared.

The fact is a lot of us who were from broken families had no one and it was customary to absue that fact even by those considered "normal" and placed in charge of us in the institutions we ended up in.

_________________________
As Mark Twain once quipped, history may not repeat itself, but it does rhyme.

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#337928 - 08/08/10 11:16 PM Re: Our Secret Doors [Re: kidneythis]
fhorns Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/10/02
Posts: 666
I didn't know what "safe" was.
I didn't know I could feel safe.
I didn't know I was a lovable person
I didn't know ALL males weren't abusive.
I didn't know I could have something worth saying.
I didn't know.....I mattered.

And finally...

I didn't know how mad I was from being used, abused, and then left behind. mad

Alfred


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#337967 - 08/09/10 05:46 PM Re: Our Secret Doors [Re: shadowkid]
NDbiker Offline


Registered: 07/27/10
Posts: 37
Loc: North Dakota
I didn't know that I couldn't be strong enough to bury this indefinitely
I didn't know that my parents wouldn't protect me
I didn't know the effects would be there the rest of my life
I didn't know defining my parent's treatment of me as abuse would let me choose recovery
I didn't know it would be so hard to face each day in recovery
I didn't know that my abuses left me so detached from feeling life
I didn't know why no one could see my pain even though I faked happiness
I didn't know that my whole life would be spent living inside of a fake shell
I didn't know how good/frightening it would feel to remove that fake shell occasionally
I didn't know what unconditional love was


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#363889 - 06/08/11 10:33 PM Re: Our Secret Doors [Re: NDbiker]
pufferfish Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/26/08
Posts: 6852
Loc: USA
This is a great thread.

Bump

Allen


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#363893 - 06/08/11 11:31 PM Re: Our Secret Doors [Re: shadowkid]
WalkTheWalk Offline


Registered: 03/06/10
Posts: 57
Loc: Wisconsin
I didn't know keeping the secret empowered him
I didn't know who I could tell
I didn't know how to make it stop
I didn't know I could say no

_________________________
- The pain of our past can have influence in molding a better person than we might have been otherwise.

- Sometimes boys with a thousand nightmares become men with a million blessings.

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#363895 - 06/09/11 12:02 AM Re: Our Secret Doors [Re: WalkTheWalk]
pufferfish Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/26/08
Posts: 6852
Loc: USA
This thread can be turned into a -pdf file. After it quiets down again I'll make a pdf and make it available to everybody.

Now I wonder where the guys are who have responded to this thread. I know of about a dozen or so.

Allen


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#363934 - 06/09/11 09:56 PM Re: Our Secret Doors [Re: pufferfish]
EGL Offline
Moderator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 06/19/04
Posts: 7821
One of my favorite threads here, Allen. Thanks for bumping it. It was good to read it again.

_________________________
Eddie

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#363953 - 06/10/11 12:42 PM Re: Our Secret Doors [Re: EGL]
1islandboy Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 06/23/08
Posts: 858
Loc: washington
My secret doors...

I didn't know...I wasn't safe sleeping in my own bed.

I didn't know...that I wasn't safe sleeping in my own bed...(more than once).

I didn't...know that I could be both warm and snuggly and frozen while trying to sleep.

I didn't know that "Stranger Danger" was complete bulls...

I didn't know...my dad would have listened...(he didn't seem to have a lot of time beyond all the rage and anger).

I didn't know..."that children are meant to be seen and not heard"...is actually a mixed message.

I didn't know..."because I say so" is another mixed message...(adults are not always right, reguardless of what they say...

I didn't know...that turning me on, was All about getting him off.

I didn't know it was about power.

I didn't know...that keeping this secret had nothing to do with protecting me.

I didn't know...that deciding not to turn off, is actually an unconcious decision to go straight...(continue)

I didn't know.."stockholm syndrome".

I didn't know..."dissociation".

I didn't know...how this would go on to affect my sexual identity and sexual orientation...

I didn't know...that by not taking other doors, this would eventually lead me to the..."Gates of Insanity."


Goodbye to Jane (Antichrisis)

island



_________________________
Rise above the storm and you will find the sunshine ~ M.F. Fernandez

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#363961 - 06/10/11 03:14 PM Re: Our Secret Doors [Re: 1islandboy]
Drop Offline


Registered: 04/16/11
Posts: 121
I didn't know there were secret doors
I didn't know I could stop it
I didn't know for a long time that it wasn't normal
I didn't know it was not my fault
I didn't know I didnt deserve this
I didn't know I could have told other adults about it
I didn't know most adults aren't like my parents and co
I didn't know it shouldn't have been my job to protect my brother
I didn't know how to be a child, and just that, a child
I didn't know it wasn't something I have to be ashamed off
I didn't know it was wrong and illegal
I didn't know I wasn't protecting us by keeping quiet
I didn't know it would mess me up this much later in life

_________________________
Broken eyed and shutdown
Running down the road
Send me straight to hell
Watch me burn, watch me burn

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#363997 - 06/11/11 01:35 PM Re: Our Secret Doors [Re: Drop]
h.beat,h.break Offline


Registered: 06/05/09
Posts: 124
Loc: New York
Wow. I stumbled upon this topic. Surprised that it was started in 95'. I was still a pre-teen then smile

I didn't know what was going on.
I didn't know how to feel.
I didn't know how to react.
I didn't know who to tell.
I didn't know that it wasn't normal.
I didn't know I would be blamed for it.
I didn't know he would he would punish me for it.
I didn't know I could be filled with intense hatred for him.
I didn't know it had happened to others.
I didn't know that it could have been prevented.
I didn't know it was abuse.

The abuse was a cycle in my family. None of the "adults" did anything about it. They were ashamed and the cycle continued. Pride before the fall.

_________________________
Hey, if "black sheep" means you're the only non-douche of the family, take that with some pride.

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#366705 - 07/27/11 01:37 AM Re: Our Secret Doors [Re: shadowkid]
Tyler845 Offline


Registered: 11/04/10
Posts: 276
Loc: U.S.A.
I did'nt know, I was just an object for their pleasure.
I did'nt know, I could refuse if i had wanted.
I did'nt know, everything would be different because of this.
I did'nt know, they never truly loved me,
I did'nt know, how far gone they must've truly been.
I did'nt know, how strong i was, until I faced my darkest demon.
I did'nt know, I was'nt the only one,
I did'nt know, I deserved more than they could ever give.
Thanks guys.
Love n peace.
Most of all, Respect.

_________________________
Most Often, The Child Inside Has Better Access To Execute The Flawless Potential Of Self.

Over-Ride Emotional Conflict With Rational Truths

You Are Freer Than You Think - Paul Berteaux

Come unto Me, all ye that Labor, and are Heavy-ladened. I will give you Rest -Jesus Christ

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#366758 - 07/27/11 06:50 PM Re: Our Secret Doors [Re: roadrunner]
pbert53 Offline
Greeter Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/26/09
Posts: 576
Loc: Washington, USA
thanks larry, this was a good thing.

i didnt know what grooming was

didnt know what was to come

didnt know that i needed a surrogate father

didnt know that i was a toy

didnt know that it wasnt love

didnt know what real love was

didnt know that my innocence would be lost

didnt know what innocence was

didnt know what i would miss

didnt know that it would affect me forever

didnt know all good 'feelings'

didnt know that it would prevent me from having a healthy sexual outlook and life

didnt know that it would eventually cause pain, shame and guilt

didnt know that i would be a pawn in many peoples sick games

didnt know didnt know didnt know didnt fucking know a lot of shit it would cause and prevent and do to me

now i 'know'

peace to us all, hard won and little by little, i love you guys!

paul

_________________________
If you cannot control what happens to you, you can control your attitude toward what happens to you, and in that, you will be mastering change rather than allowing it to master you.

~ adapted from: Sri Ram

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#395359 - 04/28/12 10:18 PM Re: Our Secret Doors [Re: roadrunner]
Human Offline


Registered: 03/14/12
Posts: 62
Loc: private
Dittto to all of the above!

I didnt know I could and should have told my hungover mother more than once (wish it had been when she had sobered up) and/or an older sibling/father what had happened the first time.

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#395375 - 04/28/12 11:05 PM Re: Our Secret Doors [Re: Human]
Chase Eric Offline
Moderator
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/25/10
Posts: 1307
I didn't know that because I had a sexual response it didn't mean I was giving my permission.

I didn't know that when I started by saying "no", then got quiet, that it didn't mean I was saying "yes".

I didn't know - as strange as it may seem even at 13 - that it was sex.

And I didn't know that such a wonderful thread existed. Thanks, Roadrunner!
_________________________



Click my pic to see why I'm here

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#395377 - 04/28/12 11:09 PM Re: Our Secret Doors [Re: roadrunner]
Still Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/16/07
Posts: 6401
Loc: 2.5 NATO Nations

Missing you Liri (page 9). I wish I knew what would save you...


Edited by Robbie Brown (04/28/12 11:09 PM)
_________________________
Wishing You Were Here!

The Aftermath Video

The Water Buffalo Song

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#395413 - 04/29/12 02:51 AM Re: Our Secret Doors [Re: Still]
peroperic2009 Offline
Moderator
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/09/11
Posts: 3603
Loc: South-East Europe
I didn't know Liri but found that his birthday was yesterday, very sad story frown , here is comment by his cousin starving.soul at the atbottom of the page:
http://www.malesurvivor.org/board/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=324325&page=5
_________________________
My story

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#395461 - 04/29/12 11:45 AM Re: Our Secret Doors [Re: roadrunner]
SamV Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/13/09
Posts: 5942
Loc: Talladega, Alabama, USA
I didn't know:
-my brothers and sisters could care so little
-my sister would sexually abuse me
-my parents could hit so hard, and bruise my heart so completely
-I could feel so utterly destroyed
-I could trade my eternal soul for a kind word
-the connection I craved was almost extinct
-abusers do not stop until they want to
-my parents would love my abuser more than me
-I would forget the good times I had as a child, a young adult, and through my adult life. That I would sacrifice my memory of all good things to make sure I would never be abused again.
-this would hurt so much after all this time... and recovery

-that I would find such fierce compassion and loyalty as I have found here with MaleSurvivor, men and woman who would show me how important I was to them, and eventually to me.
-that I could enjoy life, work, family and spirituality
-that I would giggle, yes giggle in my safe places,
-that I could laugh at myself
-that I could be better for my children than I was treated as a child.

Thank you, thank you so much for this post, these replies, and your beautiful hearts. All of your beautiful thoughts, fears and courage are in me, I am with you.

Sam
_________________________
MaleSurvivor Moderator Emeritus 2012 - 2014

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#395509 - 04/29/12 07:18 PM . [Re: roadrunner]
Life's A Dream Offline


Registered: 08/25/11
Posts: 886
Loc: Bouvet Island
.


Edited by Life's A Dream (01/12/13 10:46 PM)

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#453776 - 11/15/13 12:37 PM Re: Our Secret Doors [Re: roadrunner]
jas4159 Offline


Registered: 06/16/11
Posts: 278
excelleant post.

This really lends it self to the fact that it was not our fault. and for many of the reasons listed in this post. Boys don't know and if i did i would not have walked into the flames.

rich

justanothersurvivror.wordpress.com
_________________________
Thanks

rich

justanothersurvivror.wordpress.com

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