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#164499 - 07/02/07 05:57 PM This is awful
BrightStar Offline
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Registered: 03/06/07
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#164519 - 07/02/07 09:00 PM Re: This is awful [Re: BrightStar]
melliferal Offline
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Registered: 11/03/05
Posts: 1159


Edited by melliferal (07/02/07 09:01 PM)
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#164532 - 07/02/07 11:05 PM Re: This is awful [Re: melliferal]
Still Offline
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Registered: 02/16/07
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Loc: 2.5 NATO Nations
I have a good frnd who was a placement agent for an Oregon School. He's get $60K/year in tuition for each kid. And yes, they would send in a big ex-marine to extract little Johnny in the middle of the night.

The story was nearly ALWAYS the same. Johnny had TWO parents with HIGH income. They both work and have never raised little Johnny on their own. People were always hired or Johnny was palced in daycare, etc.

My Frnd says that this is growing exponentially and that there is now extreme demand for camps/schools for poeple in the their early 20s who just cant function in the world.

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#164545 - 07/02/07 11:48 PM Re: This is awful [Re: Still]
melliferal Offline
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Registered: 11/03/05
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It is not so much the kid being awakened and taken someplace in the middle of the night; parents can do that, or have that done I guess. I wouldn't if I were a parent, I'll admit; but I don't see it as some absolute travesty in and of itself.

My truck is with what happens to the kids when they get where they're going. The parents are spoonfed crap about natural, nurturing environments with horseback riding, guitar playing - some discipline too, but by all accounts basically just a summer-campish boarding school, which is why the parents don't feel too bad about sending their kids there.

The actual places are nothing like this. Everything is regulated and scheduled, and the slightest infractions are made example of. And while the punishments may not exactly be torture when taken by themselves, the rules are so unyielding that the inmates are being punished constantly. The older, more advanced inmates are placed in a position of meager authority over younger ones; and those older inmates, already hardened and bitter from their own treatment, don't hesitate to chomp at this bit as often as they can.

Then, this place operates and sends "students" to some other facilities located in foreign countries (namely Jamaica and Mexico), where there is less or even no fear of legal reprisal, where the treatment becomes downright brutal and physically abusive.

Adding insult to injury is a promise to the parents that inmates who are educated by these "schools", which are allegedly "accredited" (in reality by a front organization that is not recognized by the US Department of Education), will receive a high school diploma when they leave - they in fact receive a worthless piece of paper that nobody, anywhere, will accept; and with good reason, when you take a look at what "education" in these places actually entails.

It seems to me (after careful thought, mind you), that these places are in a sense even worse than those teen "boot camps", because inmates stay at WWASP/S schools for months - or even years if the staff doesn't like them and won't allow them to "graduate".



Edited by melliferal (07/02/07 11:51 PM)
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#164553 - 07/03/07 12:26 AM Re: This is awful [Re: melliferal]
roadrunner Offline
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Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
Melliferal,

Originally Posted By: melliferal
It is not so much the kid being awakened and taken someplace in the middle of the night; parents can do that, or have that done I guess.


I would just note here that the motive behind this kind of thing is absolutely abusive. the message is that harm can reach out to you from anywhere any time and in any place - even to your bed in the middle of the night.

Much love,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

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#164564 - 07/03/07 05:17 AM Re: This is awful [Re: roadrunner]
melliferal Offline
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I think that's the message the teenager might get; I'm not so sure that is necessarily the motive, though. I was under the impression that the "point" behind it is that someone roused from sleep at 2 in the morning will not be able to think clearly and is not going to be in a state to put up much resistance to being taken somewhere. I could be wrong, though - as I said, I wouldn't do it; who knows how these people think.



Edited by melliferal (07/03/07 05:19 AM)
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#164565 - 07/03/07 05:17 AM Re: This is awful *DELETED* [Re: melliferal]
melliferal Offline
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Registered: 11/03/05
Posts: 1159
Duplicate Post - deleted by Brian



Edited by Brian (07/24/07 04:49 PM)
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#164567 - 07/03/07 08:11 AM Re: This is awful [Re: melliferal]
shadowkid Offline
WARNING from ModTeam, September 2013: user "Shadowkid" was exposed as a hoaxer. His entire online persona and stories of sexual abuse were fiction. We encourage you not to become emotionally concerned by anything you see in any of his posts. Thank you
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if they are taking you there being woke up in the middle of the night is the least of your worries

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its not hard to fall
when you float like a cannonball - damien rice

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#164568 - 07/03/07 08:12 AM Re: This is awful [Re: shadowkid]
shadowkid Offline
WARNING from ModTeam, September 2013: user "Shadowkid" was exposed as a hoaxer. His entire online persona and stories of sexual abuse were fiction. We encourage you not to become emotionally concerned by anything you see in any of his posts. Thank you
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you will get used to being woke up in the night ,but for things you dont talk about till years later

_________________________
its not hard to fall
when you float like a cannonball - damien rice

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#164570 - 07/03/07 08:22 AM Re: This is awful [Re: melliferal]
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
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Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
Melliferal,

Originally Posted By: melliferal
I think that's the message the teenager might get; I'm not so sure that is necessarily the motive, though.


Yes, I think you're right. But that makes it even worse; they're not thinking at all about how this will look or feel to the kid they're dragging away.

Much love,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

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#164571 - 07/03/07 08:23 AM Re: This is awful [Re: shadowkid]
roadrunner Offline
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Registered: 05/02/05
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Loc: Carlisle, PA
Adam,

Originally Posted By: shadowkid
you will get used to being woke up in the night ,but for things you dont talk about till years later


I can just imagine. I'm so sorry.

Much love,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

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#168195 - 07/21/07 03:37 PM Re: This is awful [Re: roadrunner]
Logan Offline
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Registered: 04/05/03
Posts: 1205
Loc: NY
I to, Like Adam attend one of thess places run by WWASP's, some of the hoors I can only now begin to talk about.

The one thing I will NEVER forget is the sound of a kid SCEAMING in agony from being torue in a special room where the twist you arm so far back that you can touch you eyebrow.

I will never forget the sreaming and pleading for it to stop. sometimes I can still hear them, sometimes I can hear me-I don't wanna think about anyloger.

a stry only known by those who were there,,,
Adam also went to a Really Bad one... we have spoken about it.

Logan

_________________________
"Terrible thing to live in Fear"-Shawshank Redemption
WOR Alumnus Hope Springs 2009
"Quite a thing to live in fear, this is what is means to be a slave"
-Blade Runner

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#168200 - 07/21/07 03:58 PM Re: This is awful [Re: Logan]
shadowkid Offline
WARNING from ModTeam, September 2013: user "Shadowkid" was exposed as a hoaxer. His entire online persona and stories of sexual abuse were fiction. We encourage you not to become emotionally concerned by anything you see in any of his posts. Thank you
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logan ,i'm glad you made it. having to admit there wasnt a damn thing i could do to help anybody was hard,most times if you tried to help a kid maybe younger or new it just made it worse for them. i remember a kid maybe 11 fell while we were clearing a trail in some park , fell on the rocks got scrapped up , i helped him up, he was trying not to cry, that night he got slapped around pretty good ,not for falling or crying ,because i helped him, i didnt get shit for helping him ,he did. you learn not to to give or accept help real quick,this is how they train young minds

_________________________
its not hard to fall
when you float like a cannonball - damien rice

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#168226 - 07/21/07 05:39 PM Re: This is awful [Re: shadowkid]
Logan Offline
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Registered: 04/05/03
Posts: 1205
Loc: NY
Adam, I remember being tied up alot, ussually hog-tied, sometime tied to another person. We were left in the sun for hours at a time in 110 degree heat, your appendeges go numb. when yur tied up with duct tape some time you can get enough sweat to drip down yur arm, while Lying on yur side and the sweat can losen the adhesive just enough to work yur hands free. I did that a few times when the staff went away and tried to give every one som water and then slip back in to the duct tape makeshift hand cuff that were tied to yur legs, hog tied. But if the use cordage(parachute cord) it was near imposible to get free.

god, I could write a book on this subject alone. I'm glad people are becoming more aware of these child gulags.
If anyone wants to find out about these places and their Brainwashing cult mentality, Go to http://www.nospank.net
Especially concidering sending a child to one of these places-the brosures they send are complete lies, eronious BS to convince the parent that it is a nuturing environment-Please trust me in sayint that they are ANYTHING but.

The one I went to called it self "High Peaks Wilderss Program" It got shut down, thank god, they were boud to kill a kid, like so many other programs of this nature already have. the one I went to considerd it to be "Wilderness therapy."
I think they left out the torture and beating and cattle prods......not to mention the sadists that they hire for the positions of taking care of the kids-They Don't Do ANY backround checks on these people. When I got out I found out thatone of the main people working there was convicted of molesting a child in AZ.

Not to say that I did not learn anything there, they did not intentionally teach us this but I picked it up.....Now I know how to Tortur people and tie them up in many ways, escape and evade just about anyone. I don't think that they relized what traing the unitencaily gave us or we just learned. Now if I were one of them I would be afraid of the students that they hurt, for i posses the same training and tactics they do and posses the will to......well, they should just fear me, I owe them the favor, for the created and spawned the abilities I did not posses before.

-Logan


_________________________
"Terrible thing to live in Fear"-Shawshank Redemption
WOR Alumnus Hope Springs 2009
"Quite a thing to live in fear, this is what is means to be a slave"
-Blade Runner

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#168341 - 07/22/07 12:59 AM Re: This is awful [Re: Logan]
shadowkid Offline
WARNING from ModTeam, September 2013: user "Shadowkid" was exposed as a hoaxer. His entire online persona and stories of sexual abuse were fiction. We encourage you not to become emotionally concerned by anything you see in any of his posts. Thank you
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Posts: 2437
pine grove youth conservation camp,sounds so innocent huh? its legal abuse pure and simple

_________________________
its not hard to fall
when you float like a cannonball - damien rice

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#168678 - 07/24/07 05:54 AM Re: This is awful [Re: BrightStar]
Cidnie Offline
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Registered: 07/09/07
Posts: 113
Loc: SFC, CA
What I'm about to say is probably going to tick some people off, but hear me out anyway...

In some situations, teenagers are completely out of control. They are beyond the reach of their parents or any other authority figure. In some cases, 'reform camps' are helpful. I am not condoning the abuse or torment of children, nor am I saying that what they do is 'right'. I am saying that the IDEA is a good one. The 'kidnapping', handcuffs and suddenness of it all is a show of control. It takes the control away from the often aggressive and problematic teenager and forces them to acknowledge that they must abide by someone else's rules. These kids leave embarrassed, angry, hurt and confused, but a lot of them do indeed come back happy that they had been forced to go. It's not because they were brain washed or tortured in to submission but because they were able to relinquish control and confrontation and wrap their mind around the fact that the world does not revolve around them.

The prospect itself is a touchy and difficult one. I think the execution has to be done correctly. The children should be tended to properly, respected as human beings, given privacy, safety and all the necessities one would deserve and expect. There should be counselors and therapists on hand and available to any child who wishes to see one.

In the long run, the practice of this theory is falling quite short of the intentions, but you can't admonish every working semblance of the theory just because of the faulty application by more than one institution.

It's twisted, disturbing and down right sick the things that happen in these places, but the same can be said of anywhere. Churches, cub scouts, summer camps...anywhere that sick people are able to have control.

I'm sorry that some of you have had to go through that and I do believe that most of the institutions now in place for this purpose should be abolished. I just have my own strange opinions on the subject of the matter itself.

_________________________
There is nothing natural about maturity in the physically immature. Maturity comes with wisdom, and wisdom comes with pain. Those of us with the greatest minds have endured the greatest torments.

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#168692 - 07/24/07 07:26 AM Re: This is awful [Re: Cidnie]
shadowkid Offline
WARNING from ModTeam, September 2013: user "Shadowkid" was exposed as a hoaxer. His entire online persona and stories of sexual abuse were fiction. We encourage you not to become emotionally concerned by anything you see in any of his posts. Thank you
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i can agree if it was done right and run right maybe ,but being dragged out in the middle of the night?taken away by people you dont know? this stuff has happened before,but the people doing the dragging were called nazi's. and yes i agree that there are kids just like you describe that are out of control,they are the ones who get put in charge of punishing the others,if its done that way then no one can say the people running the place had abused any kids. if they came back happy it happened? then they were brainwashed,once you been there?you will kiss ass for a long time to not ever have to go back. some of the kids never comitted any crime their parents just signed them up. if you read about what happened to jakerain it makes you sick ,that happens every night in the camps. also what if and yes it happens a kid like jake is said to be out of control,nevermind the reason ,just that hes out of control? how much damage could more abuse cause him? i was sent to camp because i had run away from several foster homes ,and stold a car from my foster parents,but i was really sent cause i had been abused and did not know what to do. i think any program that is set up to break the spirit of another human being is wrong . even without the abuse the main theme of these places is you have no rights ,you have no purpose ,you dont exist,and like any other abuse you dont come out the same person you were when you went in. boot camp did not make me a good kid ,it made me smart and desperate enough that i just never got caught again. it didnt stop me from running away ,but it did teach me how to live on the street and not get caught,so i spent a year sleeping behind dumpsters,eating out of dumpsters, pimping myself out to survive this is what camp did for me . i was 14 and abused i needed help . the so called reformed kids were the ones who were the best actors or the ones that were so broken that they were like wind up toys ,no emotions no feelings no hope. also the fact that they knew about my prior abuse made no difference,i put the perp away ,i sat in court and cried ,i told all the sick details , i looked people in the eyes and told them . i should have been a hero not a fucking zero.

_________________________
its not hard to fall
when you float like a cannonball - damien rice

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#168694 - 07/24/07 07:29 AM Re: This is awful [Re: shadowkid]
Cidnie Offline
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Registered: 07/09/07
Posts: 113
Loc: SFC, CA
Shadow--my heart goes out to all of you, you know that. I'm not condoning any of that horrible crap...I honestly don't think that the theory will work as long as people are running it. People are inherently power hungry. There will ALWAYS be someone picking on others...it would just be nice if one good idea in this world were carried out correctly.

_________________________
There is nothing natural about maturity in the physically immature. Maturity comes with wisdom, and wisdom comes with pain. Those of us with the greatest minds have endured the greatest torments.

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#168696 - 07/24/07 07:35 AM Re: This is awful [Re: Cidnie]
shadowkid Offline
WARNING from ModTeam, September 2013: user "Shadowkid" was exposed as a hoaxer. His entire online persona and stories of sexual abuse were fiction. We encourage you not to become emotionally concerned by anything you see in any of his posts. Thank you
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Registered: 11/18/05
Posts: 2437
YES

_________________________
its not hard to fall
when you float like a cannonball - damien rice

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#169450 - 07/28/07 08:08 AM Re: This is awful [Re: shadowkid]
Logan Offline
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Registered: 04/05/03
Posts: 1205
Loc: NY
But unfortunately many Idea's are not practiced the way they were intended to be and these camps are not like the boy scouts or groups like that, their purpose is to break a kids spirit-if this is benificial to some spoiled teenager that is acting wild and stuff then I'm all for it, but many of these places attract the type of people that should never be around kids in the first place, to my knowlege the boy scouts don't ATTRACT people like that.

_________________________
"Terrible thing to live in Fear"-Shawshank Redemption
WOR Alumnus Hope Springs 2009
"Quite a thing to live in fear, this is what is means to be a slave"
-Blade Runner

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#169453 - 07/28/07 08:57 AM Re: This is awful [Re: Logan]
Cidnie Offline
Guest

Registered: 07/09/07
Posts: 113
Loc: SFC, CA
*coughsscoutsurvivorcough*

_________________________
There is nothing natural about maturity in the physically immature. Maturity comes with wisdom, and wisdom comes with pain. Those of us with the greatest minds have endured the greatest torments.

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#169457 - 07/28/07 10:29 AM Re: This is awful [Re: Cidnie]
shadowkid Offline
WARNING from ModTeam, September 2013: user "Shadowkid" was exposed as a hoaxer. His entire online persona and stories of sexual abuse were fiction. We encourage you not to become emotionally concerned by anything you see in any of his posts. Thank you
Member
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Posts: 2437
they are everywhere,scoutmasters ,coaches teachers the list goes on forever ,i think the difference is that people like us dont pay tax money to keep individual pedos in buisness. its pretty clear that the people running this shit have stuidied the affects of abuse ,physical and sexual, because what they strive for is the same kind of submission that perps expect , they have learned what works ,from the most sick disgusting people on earth. ever wonder why you dont hear from more survivors of these places? for the same reasons kids dont tell on perps ,i know people say well its run by the state or the govt monitors these places,bullshit ,there is no control by anybody and its kept quiet by perp tactics ,threats intimidation and sometimes even death. we see the news story about the kid 14 who died while on a "camping trip" and we say wow that sucks ,what kind of message do you think the kids in that camp got? conform or your next. what it is is govt. and state sponsership of sexual mental and physical abuse,paid for by your taxes. maybe the idea is if these animals are running the camps then they wont be out on the street molesting the congressmans kid ,who really cares about the kind of kid that ends up in a camp? so they scarifice the nobody kids to make the world a safer place for theirs

_________________________
its not hard to fall
when you float like a cannonball - damien rice

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#169463 - 07/28/07 11:03 AM Re: This is awful [Re: shadowkid]
Still Offline
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MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/16/07
Posts: 6429
Loc: 2.5 NATO Nations
Originally Posted By: shadowkid
...maybe the idea is if these animals are running the camps then they wont be out on the street molesting the congressmans kid ,who really cares about the kind of kid that ends up in a camp? so they scarifice the nobody kids to make the world a safer place for theirs


Adam,

I FULLY believe this is true!!!! Call me paranoid....but I think its true.

_________________________
This nation has lost its mind!

The Aftermath Video

The Water Buffalo Song

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#172212 - 08/09/07 08:57 PM Re: This is awful [Re: Still]
Frog Offline
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Registered: 08/05/07
Posts: 291
Loc: Arizona
wow...what an eye opener...

_________________________
A Native American elder once described his own inner struggles in this manner: "Inside of me there are two dogs. One of the dogs is mean and evil. The other dog is good. The mean dog fights the good dog all the time." When asked which dog wins, he reflected for a moment, "The one I feed the most."

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