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#164190 - 06/30/07 03:57 PM Got seat belt ticket------NOT GUILTY
Hauser Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/12/05
Posts: 2962
Loc: United States
Guys? Can you help me find a government document that is sited in this article?

http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig4/wilson-brian8.html

I've emailed the author and hopefully, he'll reply. But if he doesn't I sure would appreciate it if you could help me to find "The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) report on highway fatalities and seat belt use for 2002."

I'm going to give the magistrate a speech about how seat-belt laws are unconstitutional and that the city that he represents have no legitimate reason to be my NANNY.

I've also emailed the webmaster at the http://www.nhtsa.gov/ site but I doubt he'll help me. I would LOVE to site the government's OWN statistics which make the ubiquitous statement "Seatbelts save lives" a misnomer at best, an outright lie at worst.

If anyone can find this report for me to print out, I'll give you a cybre-hug, and I don't give those out very often.


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#164196 - 06/30/07 05:15 PM Re: Got seat belt ticket------NOT GUILTY [Re: Hauser]
VN Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 06/03/05
Posts: 723
Seatbelt has saved my life, and my best friend's a few years ago. It is not a lie. It maybe do not do it every time, but that one, if we had not worn them, I am sure one of us if not both would been dead.

Maybe it is best to just follow the law, whether you agree or not. Or pay the penalty.

VN


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#164202 - 06/30/07 06:39 PM Re: Got seat belt ticket------NOT GUILTY [Re: VN]
Hauser Offline
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Registered: 11/12/05
Posts: 2962
Loc: United States
Heh, I USUALLY do Visha but I was merely going from my Uncles house to my Cousin's house, in a 2-block radius, and in a residential area, and I got PULLED OVER.

NO SEAT BELT.......EMERGENCY!!!!!!! PULL OVER!!!!!! "Your papers please." "YOUR PAPERS ARE NOT IN ORDER." STEP OUT OF THE CAR PLEASE.

lol ok it didn't go THAT far but I think you get my point. Visha this is supposed to be a country about individual liberty, personal responsibility, and small, LIMITED government. Not a NANNY-STATE lol


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#164220 - 06/30/07 09:34 PM Re: Got seat belt ticket------NOT GUILTY [Re: Hauser]
Still Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/16/07
Posts: 6365
Loc: 2 NATO Nations
Tell the pigs to go "wank it."
Call them the "jack-booted thugs" they truly are.

THEN you'll have quite a night!!!!!

_________________________
Jesus Loves The Hell Outta Me!

Still's Globs

New Video

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#164221 - 06/30/07 09:35 PM Re: Got seat belt ticket------NOT GUILTY [Re: Hauser]
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
Alan,

I can appreciate your chagrin, but most accidents occur close to home. I can second Visha on seat belts. I know a number of cases where someone involved in an accident is alive today because he had buckled up.

I could go on forever about "nanny laws" lol, but it seems to me that seat belt laws don't fall into this category. I just say this because I think if you try to fight from this corner you are bound to lose.

Much love,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

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#164226 - 06/30/07 09:54 PM Re: Got seat belt ticket------NOT GUILTY [Re: roadrunner]
Still Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/16/07
Posts: 6365
Loc: 2 NATO Nations
Move to NH Hauser. Its this nation's LAST true stand!!!

LIVE FREE OR DIE!!!!


AND...H...that NANNY mentality crap permiates into the strangest freaking places in our lives!!! ;\)




Edited by Robbie Brown (06/30/07 10:18 PM)
_________________________
Jesus Loves The Hell Outta Me!

Still's Globs

New Video

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#164233 - 06/30/07 10:49 PM Re: Got seat belt ticket------NOT GUILTY [Re: Still]
shadowkid Offline
WARNING from ModTeam, September 2013: user "Shadowkid" was exposed as a hoaxer. His entire online persona and stories of sexual abuse were fiction. We encourage you not to become emotionally concerned by anything you see in any of his posts. Thank you
Member
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Registered: 11/18/05
Posts: 2437
hauser i'd much rather read here that you got a ticket than read in the paper you died in an accident cause you didnt have it on. adam

_________________________
its not hard to fall
when you float like a cannonball - damien rice

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#164235 - 06/30/07 11:02 PM Re: Got seat belt ticket------NOT GUILTY [Re: Still]
Hauser Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/12/05
Posts: 2962
Loc: United States
Oh I'm all for wearing seat belts, ok? But......BUT in a free society, it is for insurance companies, to assess on a competitive and voluntary basis, PROBABILITIES and expected losses. Laws that are enforced by government in a free society should deal in actions and actions alone, and only insofar as they damage person or property.

I will lose, but I will have my say in front of that magistrate before I pay that insulting fine.

And when he tells me, "I'm not going to argue law with you." I shall respond to that by saying "Does the City of East Grand Rapids consider it's position so weak that it cannot withstand debate?"


Also, there is an unforgotten notion to consider: My elected "representatives" and my sorry excuse for a Governor never even differed to the will of the PEOPLE on this matter. They simply said to them selves "Oh more Federal Highway money!" "Let's comply!"

If my Reps had and BALLS they would stop playing this game of:

1. Having hard earned money taken by individuals like me.
2. Feeding a huge Bureaucratic red tape machine located in D.C.
3. Then jumping through hoops like Pavlov dogs just to get more
money, which is doled out to the States like an allowence,
and not caring that their constituents get harassed
and threatened with FINES and IMPRISONMENT for not complying.

Freedom with risk is ALWAYS better than tyranny with promised safety.

Ok I'll shut up.


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#164304 - 07/01/07 12:36 PM Re: Got seat belt ticket------NOT GUILTY [Re: Hauser]
Hauser Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/12/05
Posts: 2962
Loc: United States
I've resolved that when I come to court, I'm going in bare naked except for the American Flag draped around my waste. Oh, and I'll wear a T-shirt with the Bill of Rights printed on it, with a big red stamp overlaying the Bill of Rights saying: "VOID WHERE PROHIBITED BY LAW"






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#164380 - 07/01/07 10:09 PM Re: Got seat belt ticket------NOT GUILTY [Re: Hauser]
GWsurvives Offline
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MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/10/07
Posts: 251
Loc: Atlanta, and here, among othe...
Hauser, I'm with you on this one..

RoadRunner, if most accidents occur near my home... I'm moving!!!

_________________________
"Some times there just aren't enough rocks" Forrest Gump

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#164423 - 07/02/07 06:01 AM Re: Got seat belt ticket------NOT GUILTY [Re: GWsurvives]
soapy bubbles Offline
Member

Registered: 09/05/06
Posts: 332
Loc: london
In England, we're nannied and sterilised within an inch of our lives. I hate it.

SB

_________________________
"Though we travel the world over to find the beautiful, we must carry it with us or we find it not.” ~ Ralph Waldo Emerson

“Nobody can make you feel inferior without your permission.” --- Eleanor Roosevelt

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#164442 - 07/02/07 08:44 AM Re: Got seat belt ticket------NOT GUILTY [Re: soapy bubbles]
Stefan012 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 12/18/06
Posts: 281
Loc: The Netherlands
Well if a rule is going to save a lot of lives, I'm all for that rule.

_________________________
You lost the things that you thought you would never miss.
You let them out and miss them while they're gone
But there's memories down here and they will always live down here
No they can't take them away, so they won't

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#164497 - 07/02/07 05:48 PM Re: Got seat belt ticket------NOT GUILTY [Re: Stefan012]
Hauser Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/12/05
Posts: 2962
Loc: United States
Correction, wearing a seat belt MIGHT your life. Remember almost a third of vehicular deaths were people WEARING seat belt, in accordance to their nanny........err I meant government sorry.

You could also make a rule that no one can eat trans-fats, that would save lives.

You could also make a rule that we all drive no faster than 15km/hr, that would save lives.

You could also make a rule that no one may ride ATV's, that would save lives.

As Mel Gibson screamed in the movie Braveheart (1995).

FREEEEEDDDDOOOOOOMMMMMM!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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#164498 - 07/02/07 05:57 PM Re: Got seat belt ticket------NOT GUILTY [Re: Hauser]
Alexander Offline
Member

Registered: 10/17/06
Posts: 223
Loc: The Netherlands
Aren't you overreacting a bit whit the freedom thing and all?
Besides more people dont die because they were seatbelts, much more then if they weren't wearing them. That's the point. so i think this is a good rule.
O well.

Alexander

_________________________
Come on, oh my star is fading
And I see no chance of release
And I know I'm dead on the surface
But I am screaming underneath

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#164510 - 07/02/07 07:42 PM Re: Got seat belt ticket------NOT GUILTY [Re: Alexander]
MarkK Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/02/07
Posts: 2502
Loc: Denver, CO
the number of children saved by seatbelts is worth any legislation, imho. for that matter, if it saves one life - to me that makes it worth it.

i remember riding around in the back of the station wagon - three of us - and the dog - no seat belts ... one accident could have wiped us out

... just my opinion

_________________________
the story
    https://1in6.org/men/bristlecone/mark-krueger/

Kirkridge - October 2008
Alta - September 2012
Alta - September 2013

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#164515 - 07/02/07 08:29 PM Re: Got seat belt ticket------NOT GUILTY [Re: MarkK]
Alexander Offline
Member

Registered: 10/17/06
Posts: 223
Loc: The Netherlands
yeah exactly

_________________________
Come on, oh my star is fading
And I see no chance of release
And I know I'm dead on the surface
But I am screaming underneath

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#164569 - 07/03/07 08:19 AM Re: Got seat belt ticket------NOT GUILTY *DELETED* [Re: Alexander]
ttoon Offline
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Registered: 06/19/07
Posts: 977
Post deleted by ttoon

_________________________
checkin out for a few weeks... whistle
02/07/09

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#164601 - 07/03/07 01:32 PM Re: Got seat belt ticket------NOT GUILTY [Re: ttoon]
Trish4850 Offline
BoD Liaison Emeritus
MaleSurvivor<

Registered: 10/15/05
Posts: 3280
Loc: New Jersey
Sorry Hauser, I can't support you here. I was in a wreck around the corner from my home - I was wearing a seatbelt and came through with nothing more than the jitters.

When the seatbelt law went into effect in Jersey, I was a newlywed and my ex and I had to make a concerted effort to wear it; now however, it's second nature. Because I wear it and because my daughter has been taught to wear it since her first car ride outside of a car-seat, she is alive. You see, she has been a passenger in 2 separate vehicles that rolled-over - she is alive and whole because of that seatbelt. If it wasn't for the law that forced me to do it and teach her, she might not be with me.

Pay the ticket and buckle up!

ROCK ON........Trish

_________________________
If you fall down 10 times, Stand up 11.

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#164609 - 07/03/07 02:00 PM Re: Got seat belt ticket------NOT GUILTY [Re: Trish4850]
GWsurvives Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/10/07
Posts: 251
Loc: Atlanta, and here, among othe...
I don't think that the aurgument here is "do seat belts save lives?". I think what Hauser is asking is (correct me if I'm wrong) why does the Federal Gooberment have the right to make us wear them? Should that not be a choice? Should I not the right to eat raw red meat, have a glass of wine, smoke a cigarette, ride a four wheeler, jump out of an airplane, spend time in the woods where there might be bears present,use a lawnmower, use a hair dryer, or a host of other dangerous things? At what point does the "Nanny state" stop? I guess at some point, they will force us all to drive Volvos so we can be safe.

I am not opposed to wearing a seatbelt, but I am opposed to being forced to wear one.

GW

_________________________
"Some times there just aren't enough rocks" Forrest Gump

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#164634 - 07/03/07 04:30 PM Re: Got seat belt ticket------NOT GUILTY [Re: GWsurvives]
Trish4850 Offline
BoD Liaison Emeritus
MaleSurvivor<

Registered: 10/15/05
Posts: 3280
Loc: New Jersey
GW,

I'm sure you're take on the question is 100% right, but my point is that if it hadn't been made a law which made me abide by it, which made me teach my daughter to abide by it.........very bad things would have happened. So yes, choice is always good, but sometimes, as in this very limited instance, I'm glad we didn't have one.

Trish

_________________________
If you fall down 10 times, Stand up 11.

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#164635 - 07/03/07 04:51 PM Re: Got seat belt ticket------NOT GUILTY [Re: Trish4850]
FormerTexan Offline
Site Administrator
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 09/12/04
Posts: 11025
Loc: Denver, CO
I support the idea of using seat belts, but I'm with Hauser in that I don't support the government telling me to do it or be punished. They government has usurped way too much authority over our lives as it is, and needs to be stepped waaaaay back.

_________________________
List of things ain't nobody got time for:

1. That


If I could meet myself as a boy...

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#164640 - 07/03/07 06:11 PM Re: Got seat belt ticket------NOT GUILTY [Re: FormerTexan]
Still Offline
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MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/16/07
Posts: 6365
Loc: 2 NATO Nations
With 400,000 cigarette-related deaths each year in the USA, would'nt you think if they really wanted to save lives they would ban them? The simple fact is, seatbelts have no lobby. They are an easy target for nit-whit politicos to "do something." Its NOT about saving lives!!!! Its ALL about political posturing.

Cigs have a HUGE lobby but cigs kill huge numbers of people. Thus, no ban.

_________________________
Jesus Loves The Hell Outta Me!

Still's Globs

New Video

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#165090 - 07/06/07 10:57 AM Re: Got seat belt ticket------NOT GUILTY [Re: Still]
Hauser Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/12/05
Posts: 2962
Loc: United States
I was found GUILTY. We, (the magistrate and I) argued ALL OVER the legal and social issues regarding seat-belt laws, for almost an HOUR. He eventually said that if I wanted to prove the unconstitutionality of seat-belt laws, that I would have to bring it all the way to the Supreme Court, given that 49 other states have them. To that I rebutted that the only reason most of these states have these laws is because the Federal Government threatens to take away highway construction money that they promise to give to other states that DO comply with their wishes. As Rob pointed out they don't have seat belt laws in NH, nor do they have many miles of highways, what a strange coincidence huh?

Yeah, I lost, but at least I kept that policeman in that courtroom for an hour and off the streets and writing these stupid tickets. I also tied up the magistrate's time for almost an hour.

OH, this might make you laugh! When I left the courtroom, I said "I lost!" to the sheriff that screens people at the door of the courthouse for weapons. He smiled and said "Hey don't feel bad most of them do." He then asked, "What was the charge?" I replied "Seat belt ticket." To which he laughed and said "Why didn't you just pay the ticket? How could you possibly win against that?" I replied that "The law was Unconstitutional and a violation of my civil rights." To which he replied, "Oh GOD, you're one of those libertarians? Are you in the Michigan Militia too? Should I have padded you down for weapons?".........???????? Yes he said that although with a smile on his face.

Yes, I believe in the Constitution, what the HELL is wrong with that?

If everyone did their civic duty like I did today, they would stop trying to enforce stupid laws.


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#165091 - 07/06/07 11:13 AM Re: Got seat belt ticket------NOT GUILTY [Re: Hauser]
FormerTexan Offline
Site Administrator
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 09/12/04
Posts: 11025
Loc: Denver, CO
"Yes, I believe in the Constitution, what the HELL is wrong with that?"

Absolutely nothing! The deputy you spoke to is one of those mind-already-made-up/I'm-the-law-and-you're-nothing drones. He doesn't care about your rights. Many of those guys are only there for their lousy civil service paycheck. There are a few good ones, but they are few and far between from what I hear.

More people need to know the Constitution and it's history. There is nothing wrong with knowing your rights - the restrictions on government.

_________________________
List of things ain't nobody got time for:

1. That


If I could meet myself as a boy...

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#165105 - 07/06/07 01:02 PM Re: Got seat belt ticket------NOT GUILTY [Re: soapy bubbles]
theatrekid Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 06/03/07
Posts: 702
Loc: oregon
Originally Posted By: soapy bubbles
In England, we're nannied and sterilised within an inch of our lives. I hate it.

SB


yeah we had a war over that with England... lol

seat belts do save lives i wouldnt get in a car without them that being said, our goverment has no right to make us wear seat belts. if they were going to really protect i think there is a long list of things they should also make illegal... they chose seat belts because it is a perfect scape goat... the politician can stand on the podium and say i have saved lives...

Hauser good job for putting up a fight.

,Chris.


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#165261 - 07/07/07 04:13 PM Re: Got seat belt ticket------NOT GUILTY [Re: GWsurvives]
emptydreamer Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/19/07
Posts: 276
Loc: Midwest USA
OK! Gotta get my 2 cents in on this one. Before I start, let me say that I ALWAYS wear my seatbelt. NOT because I'm concerned with my safety. Because I CAN'T STAND the damn "ding, ding, ding," and that fat red guy that keeps winking at me from my instrument panel!!!
The damn "ding ding" used to stop after a few seconds in years past, now, the annoying thing never stops. NEVER!! OK done with that.
Now, I have always been a firm believer that the LESS government intrudes on our private lives, the better. This goes for Helmet laws, seat belt laws, and more importantly, the right to keep and bear arms. God gave us all free will, that's the excuse I hear from anyone who answers my question regarding "why would God allow bad things to happen to kids". So, as much as I get tired of hearing that explanation, I'm going to use it here. God gave us all free will, let not our government take it away. Of course we need laws to protect us from violence, and theft, and other criminal activities. We don't need laws to protect us from ourselves. What's next, a daily limit on donuts, or a weekly limit on how many orders of french fries we can consume?
I'm with you on this one Hauser!

_________________________
I'm here for a reason. Failure is not an option.

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#166624 - 07/14/07 05:12 AM Re: Got seat belt ticket------NOT GUILTY [Re: emptydreamer]
ak Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/10/04
Posts: 1491
I do not understand someone to be proud of how much they waste another person's time. And maybe that policeman would not been writing tickets you think is stupid. Maybe he would been at a home where there is family violence, protecting a woman from her husband or a child from abuse.

andrei


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#166667 - 07/14/07 12:28 PM Re: Got seat belt ticket------NOT GUILTY [Re: ak]
WalkingSouth Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/30/05
Posts: 16264
excellent point, Andrei!

_________________________
“Life’s journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting ‘Holy ____…! What a ride!’” ~Hunter S. Thompson

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#166676 - 07/14/07 01:16 PM Re: Got seat belt ticket------NOT GUILTY [Re: WalkingSouth]
Hauser Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/12/05
Posts: 2962
Loc: United States
Maybe the policeman in this situation COULD have been preventing abuse, had he not been sitting in his car, and waiting for non-violent citizens like myself, that are going about their every-day business, and NOT HARASSING them.

It starts with enforcement of GOOD LAWS, (laws in which there is a perpetrator and a victim), not crimes against the state.


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