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#16114 - 10/27/02 11:05 PM What's This
The Dean Offline
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MaleSurvivor
Registered: 07/15/02
Posts: 2080
Loc: Milwaukee, WI


I am driving on the freeway, or I might be sitting in a room with a few people there, just reading.

Now I am a good-looking young man of about 17 and I am singing in a huge auditorium with a large audience of people of all ages and I am some kind of super-star kid.

I sing a bunch of songs and talk to the people.

I stop at a stop-sign somewhere I have have no idea where I am or how I got there, but I didn't wreck the car. I soon do know where I am and go to wherever it was I was first going to.

If I am in the room with people, I have put down the book on my lap or the table and when I am again in that room I think I just had a day dream. I have not read any more in the book.

I am not aware of being frightened, more than usual, when this occurs. It happens too often.
I have not had a slip and no drinks in 15 years.

Bob

_________________________
If we do not live what we believe, then we will begin to believe what we live.

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#16115 - 10/28/02 01:39 PM Re: What's This
Lloydy Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 04/17/02
Posts: 7071
Loc: England Shropshire
Bob
that sounds like the dissasociation I had - still have a bit.

I arrive at a place not knowing how I drove there, halfway through a sentence in a book I'm suddenly away with the fairies - as they in these parts when someone's daydreaming.

The frustration is not being able to stop it. I don't care when I'm driving, I do thousands of miles at work every year on roads I know like the back of my hand - so I can understand that to a degree, it relieves the boredom.

But when I want to concentrate on something I hate it. It's worse when I'm trying to read a text book, a technical manual or something like that. I just get "MEGO" ( my eyes glaze over ) and I just lose track of everything.

The only thing that helps slightly is to use a pencil and move it along the line pointing at the words as I read them. Reading aloud helps some as well, but not always a dignified alternative for an adult.

I hate it and am planning to look into dyslexia and learning difficulties to see if there's any help there.

I'm sure SA and learning difficulties are linked and it's through the dissasociation and lack of concentration. The kind of stuff my generation were punished in school for - "LLOYD - PAY ATTENTION !!" how often did I hear that ?

Hopefully teachers have a more enlightened attitude and better training to recognise these problems now before they get carried on into adulthood.

Lloydy

_________________________
Go confidently in the direction of your dreams! Live the life you've imagined. As you simplify your life, the laws of the universe will be simpler.
Henry David Thoreau

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#16116 - 10/28/02 02:10 PM Re: What's This
New to this Offline
Member

Registered: 09/16/02
Posts: 138
Loc: Mississippi
Bob & Lloydy,

I do some of the same things. Somehow I manage to keep seeing the words in a book & turn the pages at the appropriate time, but I have no clue as to what I read. My mind was somewhere else.

I scares me sometimes when I realize my driving has become unconscious. I loose track of miles and wonder how I stayed on the road.

I was treated for ADD because of some of these symptoms. I think they should call it SADD(Sexual Abuse Dissociative Disorder).

I seem to multi-task well. I'm not sure if that is a talent or disassociation.

_________________________
"Knowledge itself is power" Francis Bacon

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#16117 - 10/28/02 11:15 PM Re: What's This
Sleepy Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/08/02
Posts: 288
Loc: Arizona, USA
New To This: After I read what The Dean wrote I was a 100% sure that I would see a post from you.

This has been a huge problem for me, as well. I read the words but I have no idea what I read. I just think about the mundane. And driving is exactly the same. I'm glad to see I'm not the only one with this problem. At least now I know where it comes from.

_________________________
"It is good to have an end to journey toward; but it is the journey that matters, in the end."
--Ursula K. Le Guin

"Mental health is a commitment to reality at all times."
--M. Scott Peck

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#16118 - 10/28/02 11:48 PM Re: What's This
Sleepy Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/08/02
Posts: 288
Loc: Arizona, USA
I have one question for you guys. Do any of you have serious dependancy issues? Emotionally I've always shut down and have become dependant on my parents for support. I've been talking with New To This about this issue and, as I said in the last reply, I was certain that I would see something from him. I always thought that when my eyes glaze over was something that was independant from the SA, but maybe there is something much more to this. I appreciate the feedback.
Mike

_________________________
"It is good to have an end to journey toward; but it is the journey that matters, in the end."
--Ursula K. Le Guin

"Mental health is a commitment to reality at all times."
--M. Scott Peck

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#16119 - 10/29/02 02:12 AM Re: What's This
Les_Angry Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/06/02
Posts: 195
I have the same problem. Especially when I have to read outloud. I worked for a company where we would read something outloud and we would have to talk about what we just read. I used to make jokes just because I had no idea what I read even though I said every word outloud. Sometimes at work my boss would approach me and say have you done this or that yet? I will sometimes have no recollection of ever having heard the request before. This frustrates my wife when it happens at home.


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#16120 - 10/29/02 11:28 AM Re: What's This
Wuamei Offline
Member

Registered: 08/19/02
Posts: 2700
Loc: The left turn I should have ta...
I do these same kinds of things when driving or reading, even just walking. I can't remember whether someone told me something or I told them something, or not.

Of course I often get up to get something, walk into the next room, and forget what I was looking for or even what room I was going to.

So part of this, for me, can be attributed to my fibromyalgia fibrofog, which involves inability to focus, concentrate, retain, remember. Yet even my fibro is a result of my SA trauma, anyway.

And I also fade off into daydreams. And then there are the flashbacks.

I think Lloydys onto something in relating this to dissociation.

I think our minds get so confused by dissociating us from our bad memories (not to mention suppressing or repressing them), that they can at times become unable to discern as to what to dissociate us from.

Of course we are not conscious of doing this I don't think. But its like we separate ourselves from past abuse memories, but we get used to dissociating and separate ourselves from our present reality, even in non-abusive situations like driving, reading, etc.

And I know there have been times when I've like gotten verbally abused on the job or been a road rage victim that I've just blanked out or shut everything out.

Unfortunately, sometimes in those instances primal emotions take over to fill in the blank, which means return the verbal attack or road rage; or lately, fortunately, its meant just walk out or move away.

Lloydy, I never thot about the learning disabilities tie-in either. Now I know why my teachers were always telling me to pay attention.

I used to sit & draw stick figures or daydream. Yet I usually retained enuf of what the teacher was saying to be able to study it and pass tests. That's what got me thru high school.

And my late brother, who was mentally & physically handicapped? I always felt he was not so much "retarded" as "learning disabled." Probably due to the same early abuses I suffered, only he was probably even younger. I think he had a bad case of what New refers to as SADD (Sexual Abuse Dissociation Disorder)!

A good name for this problem we have: becuz its accurate, and becuz it is sad. \:\(

As an aside, I'm again amazed at the frequency with which posts relating to driving are coming up! I'm preparing one on "Road Rage On Recovery Road." (Sounds like a book title--as if I haven't written enuf books here already!... :rolleyes:

Well, you've been warned, gentlemen!... :p
\:D
Wuame

_________________________
"I can't stand pain. It hurts me."
--Daffy Duck

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#16121 - 10/29/02 01:38 PM Re: What's This
Lloydy Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 04/17/02
Posts: 7071
Loc: England Shropshire
most of my MEGO is a sudden snap into a daydream - it was nearly always a sexual one for many years, and the ones that weren't were to do with power and control.

I would, and still do but not so much, suddenly think of something that pissed me off , even slightly, and build a fantasy in my mind where I demolished the foe completely, sometimes it was physical and I would beat the crap out of a gang of yobs that brushed past me on the street. Or it just a case of using my lightening wit and mind ( duh !! ) to win the argument.
Absolute crap - but I think it all goes back to the abuse of power that made the sex abuse possible. I could regain control, and raise my self esteem - but only in my mind.

the issues of ADD I haven't yet sorted, but I firmly believe that I went through school dissasociating all the time, or was it a genuine learning problem ?
Which came first ? I can't really remember, but I think I was doing ok at school until the abuse started. I certainly became a problem at the same time, fighting, vandalism and stealing. It all started at the same time.

I know that I'm dyslexic with numbers - dyscalculia - and I have the kind of brain common to most dyslexics. I can think with 3D pictures no problem. I can visualise and build competition suspension systems for 4x4's in my mind, I can see the moving parts work.
But I can't read the instructions and set the clock on a VCR.

So whether it was driven out of me by the SA or it was there before ( and probably made worse ) I don't know.

But I do know it pisses me off !!

Lloydy

_________________________
Go confidently in the direction of your dreams! Live the life you've imagined. As you simplify your life, the laws of the universe will be simpler.
Henry David Thoreau

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#16122 - 10/29/02 02:22 PM Re: What's This
New to this Offline
Member

Registered: 09/16/02
Posts: 138
Loc: Mississippi
Lloydy,

I don't know what Roy is doing, so I'm replying for him. What the hell does a VCR have to do with any of this?
(I miss Roy's input)

Personally, I find my concentration is ok if its something I'm really interested in. The problem is getting interested in anything.

I'm very inconsistent. I can't memorize things (like music) because I never do something the same way twice. I also have difficulty making up my mind. It all seems to be related, but I haven't sorted out the details.

_________________________
"Knowledge itself is power" Francis Bacon

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#16123 - 10/29/02 03:35 PM Re: What's This
Wuamei Offline
Member

Registered: 08/19/02
Posts: 2700
Loc: The left turn I should have ta...
Lloydy:

Ah yes, the good ol' kick the bully's arse fantasy! Brother, have I had a few of those!

Wuame

_________________________
"I can't stand pain. It hurts me."
--Daffy Duck

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#16124 - 10/30/02 02:22 AM Re: What's This
Roy Offline
Member

Registered: 08/02/02
Posts: 184
Loc: Los Angeles
Thank you, "new to this", for saying you miss my input. It's nice to be missed. I don't think anyone has missed me in quite a while. I have been very busy the last few days, mostly seeing friends and having fun, which I think means I am actually recovering and becoming stronger. Went hiking in the desert yesterday, something I haven't done in years.

One of the things that has kept me busy recently is being evaluated for and diagnosed with Attention Deficit Disorder (ADD), something which appears to be affecting several of us here. As far as I know, there is no connection between ADD and sexual abuse. Who knows what will be learned in the future. It is important to note that dissociation and ADD are two distinctly different phenomena, unique in origin. Dissociation, which The Dean is describing in the originating post on this thread, is a psychological defense commonly associated with sexual abuse. It is where one sort of "checks out" mentally and emotionally while experiencing trauma. There is a disconnection between body and mind, with some reporting a perspective of observing the event from somewhere above their physical body. This is not exclusive to sexual abuse survivors, but common among them. It is a way of surviving and enduring the unfathomable. Since it is effective, it often becomes a defense used unconcsiously in later years during times of stress, strong feelings, or exhaustion.

Attention Deficit Disorder is more organic in origin, apparently hereditary, affecting the brain. It is as though part of the brain is not lit up or activated all the way, causing a person to have difficulty filtering out irrelevant stimuli, managing time and money, problems with organization, focus, concentration, and seeing projects through to completion. Frequently hyperactivity is part of the diagnosis. There are many more symptoms and lots of resources available on the internet, just do a search. This disorder is most effectively treated with stimulant medication such as ritalin, but does not usually respond to psychotherapy, since it is not psychological in nature. Therapy can be helpful in learning to cope with the emotional fallout, and managing the symptoms that linger.

Learning disabilities are also believed to be hereditary, and involve problems with the way the brain performs tasks related to perception and expression. The most well knows is dyslexia, mentioned by Lloydy, which is difficulty with reading. Others include dysgraphia which is difficulty with writing, and dyspraxia which is difficulty with verbal expression. There is no medical or drug intervention available at this time, however there are lots of ways to learn how to cope and manage these problems. One of the worst aspects of having a learning disability is the emotional impact. Children often grow up believing they are stupid, and are often told they are lazy. As with ADD, learning disabilities are thought to occur mostly in people with above average intelligence and are frequently associated with a person who is highly intuitive and creative. Also, neither learning disabilities or ADD have any connection to sexual abuse. There are many people with these conditions who have no history of childhood trauma. Sometimes a person with ADD will also have learning disabilities and vice versa. There are varying degrees of severity, so some people struggle more than others.

Sorry to come off sounding like a professor of Psych 101, but I have training in this stuff and "new to this" asked for it. Blame him, he got me started! Also, I have reading a lot about this lately as a result of my diagnosis. Hope this clears things up a bit. Good night.

Roy


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#16125 - 10/30/02 01:08 PM Re: What's This
The Dean Offline
Moderator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 07/15/02
Posts: 2080
Loc: Milwaukee, WI
I appreciate the insights guys. I just felt that I was through with that kind of thing. I hope I do not have a wreck and hurt someone when it happens and I am driving. It happens a fair amount when I am driving. I will talk with my T about it.

Bob

_________________________
If we do not live what we believe, then we will begin to believe what we live.

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#16126 - 10/30/02 01:18 PM Re: What's This
Lloydy Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 04/17/02
Posts: 7071
Loc: England Shropshire
Roy
It's no wonder we missed you !!

Thanks for that great de>
_________________________
Go confidently in the direction of your dreams! Live the life you've imagined. As you simplify your life, the laws of the universe will be simpler.
Henry David Thoreau

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#16127 - 10/30/02 08:27 PM Re: What's This
New to this Offline
Member

Registered: 09/16/02
Posts: 138
Loc: Mississippi
Roy,

I had missed you. I'm glad you don't need us as much anymore.

I was diagnosed with ADD in '92, depression in '85. I've been on elavil, lithium, pamelor, welbutrin, prozac, ritalin, adderall, cylert & Johnny Walker Red.

I never had ADD. I had the symptoms--which disapeared within a week of recognizing my SA. My depression is also gone. Both of these were defense mechanisms, which I no longer need.

I definitely feel that there was a connection. Both problems started right after my SA, but up till a month ago I though it was something that had developed at puberty.

I saw a psychiatrist for an evaluation in September. He checked off the following DSM IV diagnosis: Adjustment disorder with depression, Adjustment Disorder with Anxiety, PTSD, ADD, Cyclothemia & Dysthemia. The only one that might be valid is the adjustment disorder.

And now I'm wondering what the hell this has to do with a 17 year old Bob on stage...

_________________________
"Knowledge itself is power" Francis Bacon

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#16128 - 10/30/02 09:54 PM Re: What's This
Roy Offline
Member

Registered: 08/02/02
Posts: 184
Loc: Los Angeles
hi mississippi, sounds like you have a very label conscious psychiatrist. Cyclothymia, dysthymia, and adjustment disorder with depression are all variations on a theme anyway. It would be interesting to do a study about any possible connection between ADD and sexual abuse. Current thinking is that symptoms must be present by age 7, maybe that will change if a connection is found. However, that would mean it is environmental rather than genetic, or at least a combination of both, which brings us back to the mind/body connection. Feelings aside, this is fascinating stuff.


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#16129 - 10/30/02 11:32 PM Re: What's This
Don-NY Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/06/02
Posts: 546
Loc: Long Island, NY
Bob:

I just had a thought and was wondering if you've recently added or changed a medication of any kind.

I know someone who had similar lapses of memory after changing from a brand name blood pressure med. to a generic. Going back took care of that.

As for daydreaming I find that I'm doing that more, sometimes even in the middle of conversations. I think that as a lot of my fears and anger have dissipated, I am less hypervigilant that I used to be, and it's just easier to get distracted by my own thoughts.

Then again, as my nephew is so fond of telling me, sometimes I'm just having a "Senior Moment". A good excuse for a coffee break or a nice brisk walk.

Take care,
Donald

_________________________
If you understand everything, some things are just as they are. If you understand nothing, things are still just as they are.

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#16130 - 10/31/02 01:09 PM Re: What's This
The Dean Offline
Moderator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 07/15/02
Posts: 2080
Loc: Milwaukee, WI
;\)

Well, I am getting senior moments down to less than a dozen a day now.

Talking things over with the T it would seem that some of my dissociative behavior may come at times when I am overwhelmed with the physical pain I have, I have both kinds of arthritis, but cannot take medicine for the pain due to kidney failure. So, I get to a point where I feel I can't go on. Then, I go on stage and sing or conduct a symphony or whatever.

I will be trying to learn some ways to handle pain that becomes more than I can bear at the time.

Thanks for the ideas guys.

Bob

_________________________
If we do not live what we believe, then we will begin to believe what we live.

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#16131 - 10/31/02 05:50 PM Re: What's This
Lloydy Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 04/17/02
Posts: 7071
Loc: England Shropshire
Bob
for about 12 years I had migraneous neuralgia for about 2 hours and twice a day. Excrutiating pain, for which no painkiller was strong enough - or fast enough. This came on within 1 minute of the first symptoms.
Thankfully it's gone except for very occasional attacks, but it was genuinly suicidal for many years.

I started to look into the whole subject of pain control through the mind, and had a tiny bit of success with it. But it stopped so I didn't need to continue.
But Im convinced it works.

Lloydy

_________________________
Go confidently in the direction of your dreams! Live the life you've imagined. As you simplify your life, the laws of the universe will be simpler.
Henry David Thoreau

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#16132 - 11/01/02 11:18 PM Re: What's This
The Dean Offline
Moderator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 07/15/02
Posts: 2080
Loc: Milwaukee, WI
Thanks Lloydy,

I have done some bio-feedbhack and it helped some. I will be talking things over with a team of physicians to see what can be done without further exacerbating my failing kidneys.

Ah, how great these golden years!

Bob

_________________________
If we do not live what we believe, then we will begin to believe what we live.

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