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#161047 - 06/10/07 08:49 PM Re: ACLU and child porn [Re: philobat]
Ken Singer, LCSW Offline
Moderator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/24/00
Posts: 5780
Loc: Lambertville, NJ USA
Philo:
First you said, "The republicans mentioned in the post are all card carrying ACLU members...did I forget to mention it? Well the ACLU has a member list on line."

Then you said, "The ACLU memberships are private and so therefore I cannot post it here because I could get into trouble and/or be held liable even if I didn't generate it. However you can Google or (meta crawl) and do your own research. It can be found with some effort.

Which is it? Most of us don't have the time or energy to "do your own research". When you or I or anyone else posts something here (or anywhere), we really post our opinions unless backed by fact. Making contradictory statements only confuses people who don't have the knowledge or time to do their own research.

Plus, using the Internet for research has its limitations. If you quote a blog, are you assured that the (usually) solo person writing the blog has been vetted by editors and researchers like legitimate news organizations do? My guess is that the opinions of the gazillion bloggers out there have no established fact checkers, editors or others to be sure the info is legit and accurate.

Many of the opinions you have posted are not backed by fact. Yes, a lot of the Republican miscreants who have turned out to be bad guys are probably backed by legit news gathering organizations as being guilty (at least as far as investigations and perhaps trials) but to make broad sweeping statements that they are "card carrying members" of ACLU strikes me as irresponsible without some documentation.

Are they listed on the membership rolls of ACLU? Can you cite the source?

Let's not get bent out of shape based on rumor or blog info. Let's make informed decisions based on fact.

Ken

PS Years ago, when ACLU defended the rights of neo-Nazis to march in the predominently Jewish city of Skokie, Illinois, there was a hue and cry about them being sympathetic to Nazies. The chief lawyer defending them was Jewish but was representing the principle of free speech, despite the abhorrence of their message. Same with their defense of the KKK in certain situations. I am strongly opposed to both groups but as a civil libertarian, I support their rights under the Constitution of the US to say what they want as long as it does not cause harm to others as defined by the US Supreme Court (free speech does not include the right to cry "Fire" in a crowded theater, etc.)


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#161139 - 06/11/07 03:39 PM Re: ACLU and child porn [Re: Ken Singer, LCSW]
philobat Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/31/07
Posts: 293
Loc: California
I agree with you about "free speech" and "free assembly". However, when "Free Assembly" is really about a group getting together to cause harm, hatred and/or bigotry" this is not conducive to freedom.

I believe the ACLU has gone too far over the edge for the face of "freedom". Case in point: NAMBLA. This organization is not about freedom at all- its legalized child abuse- and quite clearly it promotes men whom have considerable influence over boys- and the sanctioned by the freedom flag to perpetrate and molest children.

I seem to recall a while back a sting operation involving this group (NAMBLA) whereby members of this organization gathered to fly to South America and Mexico to meet young boys for the purpose of sex. In other words- this is not a group that simply talks about- they active seek and meet to arrange and organize sexual rendezvous- which is clearly beyond the "free speech" and "free assembly" definitions within in the constitution.

Now, regarding the ACLU and republicans: Many republicans are members of the ACLU for various reasons- probably to gain information for entrapment and other nefarious purposes to thwart ACLU actions- rather than being in real support of the organization. Sort of- keep your friends close- but your enemies closer theory. The ACLU does not seem to mind this and are rather in it for the membership fees- which to me feats the purpose. But then again that is only my thought.

As far as research goes- The ACLU website very clearly and specifically states that the membership list is private and to reprint or publish the information is a violation and could result in civil or criminal prosecution- a common category for which I will not fall into- thereby lending my view- if anyone feels strongly about this issue and subject- that they should conduct their own research.

My sources are not blogs or rumor based- and anyone willing to delve into this matter will find all the information verifiable. Privacy is a thing of the past- which is why with a bit of effort almost everything is available.

I am not in anyway saying "Fire" in a dark theater- I am saying go look for yourself and depending on your interest will dictate the detail of your research.

I officially represent Jeff Cohen (Cable News Confidential) who exposed the bullshit about the news, the reliability of it's content, resources and he did this from the inside (FOX, MSNBC, CNN). Jeff is very well known and nationally respected and shared a news program with Phil Donahue. I utilize many of the same resources. I also represent Benny Dominguez (NBC News Producer and Director- Executive in Charge of Production for Paul Moyers). The advice I get from my clients is- never reveal your sources- but point people in the general direction- thats the only way to avoid litigation. And its terrific advice from a news producer who has won over 15 Emmy Awards.

If someone doesn't have the time and energy to post from a place of genuine concern by an educated opinion- then why post at all. It took me less than 10 minutes to find a member list- and a background investigation service(s)(Intellius and VBack) which I subscribe to verified the criminal case histories with which I referred to previously. Again, the policies which I agreed to in signing up with these investigative serves precludes me from posting the information in public forums.

I reiterate- my connections, associations, and clientèle are highly reputable and they carry extensive backgrounds that substantiate their credibility.

The ACLU is so full of hypocrisy as are both political parties: Democrats and Republicans- and with the advent of the internet- this is rapidly becoming public knowledge and bloggers are merely reflecting this- and it is outrageous- it is this outrage blogging that has become a beacon of truth (yes, as well as, misinformation propaganda- which is ever-present in global media).

The point if to inform yourself. Many people do not know how to disseminate information once they receive it- and their need for spoon-feeding is a major problem that leads to the effectiveness of propaganda- My point has always been and remains to be- if you are interested and have an opinion about something then seek all the formation you can before commenting- thereby you will have an educated opinion. I rely on my resources because they are accurate and have come to depend on this accuracy to better utilize my time and energy.

And FYI, many bloggers out there are using real facts and information from the "inside" and should they reveal who they are- they would not only lose their jobs- but could face jail time and arrest.

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9F0CE3D61039F936A35757C0A96F958260

By conducting keyword searches through a variety of search engines at the same time- several articles will pop-up. With the link above- take the names and information as cited- which will lead to more information that is often not only shocking- but most Americans who do this easy method will become fascinated with how easy it is to retrieve information. Then of course the question is- How accurate is the NY Times- this is where each person begins to define the source with which to based their fact finding missions on. Then sub>


Edited by philobat (06/11/07 03:46 PM)

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#161178 - 06/11/07 06:47 PM Re: ACLU and child porn [Re: philobat]
FormerTexan Offline
Site Administrator
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 09/12/04
Posts: 11138
Loc: Denver, CO
CB,

"BTW, it's the Democratic Party, not the Democrat Party. Democrat, unlike Republican, is a noun and not an adjective."

I'm ok with your opinion, but considering there are weightier matters on this board than how I use words, I really don't consider this correction useful.

_________________________
List of things ain't nobody got time for:

1. That


If I could meet myself as a boy...

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#161184 - 06/11/07 07:29 PM Re: ACLU and child porn [Re: FormerTexan]
melliferal Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/03/05
Posts: 1159
Getting back to the original post, the ACLU is really just window-dressing here.

I'm not an ACLU member, but I think I can identify somewhat with SoccerKid's sentiment, regarding withdrawing from membership. I was in the Scouts for a while, and I still find myself feeling personally betrayed and revolted whenever a Scout leader gets hauled in for this sort of thing.

But as in those cases, I don't see this guy as being the ACLU's fault - as an organization. I'm sure they weren't aware of his having child porn on his home computer.

_________________________
Children cannot consent; they can only comply.

Oprah's resources for male survivors

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#161225 - 06/12/07 02:03 AM Re: ACLU and child porn [Re: melliferal]
Soccer Kid Offline
Member

Registered: 10/22/04
Posts: 273
Loc: Missouri
Honestly who gives a shit if someone is a republican or a democrat here? People are people and people that video tape and take photos of kids doing shit like that are fucking sick. I don't care who they voted for. I mean does it really matter? Would you really give a shit if the person who abused YOU was a democrat, republican, libertarian or whatever the hell else is out there?

It doesn't matter if it's the ACLU's fault or not. I'm not paying my membership dues anymore because I now know that I can't trust that the person I'm writing to, or sending my due money to isn't spending it on kid porn magazines and web sites! I mean WTF? Who prints that shit anyway?

All I have to say is that this kind of shit really hits me hard. I've been so fucked up lately after reading this stupid article. I know I brought it on myself, but WTF?

No one gets it.

You can keep debating politics now...I don't care anymore.

_________________________
~Zach~
Deviant of Many Talents

"Reality is just an illusion."

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#161295 - 06/12/07 10:24 AM Re: ACLU and child porn [Re: Soccer Kid]
philobat Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/31/07
Posts: 293
Loc: California
Soccerkid-

I hear you- the thread got going in all different direction which became about me verify sources to a moderator. Ken and I should have PM'd over that issue.

I agree with you. It seems there is more child abuse within one particular party than the other- at least in criminal prosecution and because the ACLU is supposedly liberal- I got stuck in that hypocrisy loop which tends to add the confusion by their support of the opponent.

I apologize.


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#161320 - 06/12/07 12:24 PM Re: ACLU and child porn [Re: philobat]
Soccer Kid Offline
Member

Registered: 10/22/04
Posts: 273
Loc: Missouri
No

I apologize for getting so bent out of shape. This was just a hard thing for me to read. It has nothing to do with you or anyone else.

Your fine. I just don't handle stress very well I guess. I just got a job that has insurance, so as soon as it starts I'm finding a doctor that might be able to help me with my anxiety lately. Please forgive me if I'm a little touchy before then.

_________________________
~Zach~
Deviant of Many Talents

"Reality is just an illusion."

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#161322 - 06/12/07 12:29 PM Re: ACLU and child porn [Re: Soccer Kid]
philobat Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/31/07
Posts: 293
Loc: California
We are a sensitive lot! I, too am seeking a new therapist. I am at the next stage of my evolution and am ready to move forward. This always adds to the stress- it gets more and more real- change hurts- otherwise everyone would be doing it!

The travesty of what happens today with children- especially by high profile people of supposed moral character- the curtain is lifted and we see they have no morals- in fact they are morally bankrupt. It is not only depressing- but disheartening and it adds to the feeling of hopelessness. Just makes it more difficult to process and accept the unacceptable.

I hope that sonofabitch gets a shitload of prison time!


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#161338 - 06/12/07 01:34 PM Re: ACLU and child porn [Re: philobat]
Soccer Kid Offline
Member

Registered: 10/22/04
Posts: 273
Loc: Missouri
I hate therapists. Ironic considering my job isn't it?

Anyway...I'm looking for a doctor to give me some anxiety reducing meds. That's all.

He probably won't get prison time, and if he does it will be a small one. I don't get why smoking weed or taking other drugs carries a bigger sentence than that. You know? WTF?

_________________________
~Zach~
Deviant of Many Talents

"Reality is just an illusion."

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#161406 - 06/12/07 09:09 PM Re: ACLU and child porn [Re: Soccer Kid]
philobat Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/31/07
Posts: 293
Loc: California
ROFL! Truly inspiring!


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