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#159339 - 06/01/07 10:51 AM Re: Anti-depressants [Re: Paul1959]
pain4ever Offline


Registered: 04/05/01
Posts: 1032
Paul,

Good point, I should have brought up the connunication with your doc more than yelling at Morning Star....I was kind of edged off by his comment.


Its the truth though ....AJC....the more communicative you are with your doc about what you are feeling the easier it is for him to figure out which drug to put you on. Not each and everyone will work the same for each person, so be patient!

Don't avaiod the drugs...they can be the best thing that ever happenned to you!

Brian

_________________________
Peace and Tranquility all depends on your frame of reference.

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#159346 - 06/01/07 12:49 PM Re: Anti-depressants [Re: Paul1959]
AJC Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 108
Loc: Illinois, USA
Thanks for the input. I'll talk to my doctors, my T, and my wife and make the best decision. Nobody has told me I needed them - I just wondered what some of you had experienced. My wife wondered if they would help me.

I have no idea. I don't even take aspirin for a headache. And my brother is a pharmacist!!!

-Andrew


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#159351 - 06/01/07 01:24 PM Re: Anti-depressants [Re: pain4ever]
Morning Star Offline
Member

Registered: 12/21/04
Posts: 1124
Loc: Home
Brian,

Or so you believe, it is simply the case your belief against mine. First try something yourself, and then you have the right to comment.

Morning Star

_________________________
~ It's over!...Let go of Thy Past, Remember Thy Self ~

Why Don't People Heal, by Caroline Myss; 30 days to clean up your vibrations - Abraham-Hicks

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#159352 - 06/01/07 01:32 PM Re: Anti-depressants [Re: Paul1959]
cbfull Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/26/07
Posts: 386
Loc: Ohio
I think it would be wise to be cautious when handing out advice about antidepressants. Especially the analogies, which are vague and confusing. It is probably not a good idea to say that taking an antidepressant is like sticking a screwdriver in a machine.

It's a very difficult decision to make because it tends to make us think that the "need" for a medication is proof that we are somehow damaged or inherently flawed. We desperately want to become happy without the use of medication, but what we don't realize is that sometimes we need help to tear down (or see over, climb over, etc.) walls that other people tricked us into building. Now that we are adults, we realize these walls have become impossibly high and we are very sorry we ever built them. We must go easy on ourselves because, as I said earlier, someone tricked us in a terrible and cruel way into building these walls around ourselves so that they can have access to our bodies. These walls seem to be the sort that separate us from a healthy and confident sense of sexuality. But everyone has walls and barriers, you just can't see them until you really get to know people.

In general, I have come to understand the following about three major neurotransmitters:

Serotonin tends to have a soothing effect on the mind, inducing a kind of restful state. It's almost like oiling an engine and suddenly everything runs real smooth.

Norepinephrine tends to speed up the thought process, making things more urgent. Norepinephrine (also called noradrenaline) is the brain's version of adrenaline. Too much and we can freak out!

Dopamine tends to give you confidence and motivation, and also gives you a very powerful feeling when you accomplish something. Dopamine can be converted into norepinephrine in the brain by an enzyme.


I'll share some facts about a few antidepressants that I know.

SSRIs work by helping to block the exit of serotonin from the synapse.

Prozac is considered by many doctors to be safe because it has a long half-life in the body. If a patient decides to stop taking it, there is less of a chance of a "crash" because it takes about a week to clear the system. I suspect this is where they got the idea for "once a week" prozac.

Celexa (Citalopram) is considered to be one of the safest, but I'm not exactly sure why, other than the fact that it does not seem to have any significant interactions with other drugs, or have negative effects on your liver.

Lexapro (Escitalopram, or "S"-citalopram)is basically the same thing as Celexa, except they have gone an extra step by removing the left-handed molecule which appears to be an inactive isomer. For those of you not chemically fluent, celexa is made up of two molecules, and one is the mirror reflection of the other. Their structure, formula, and bonds are all the same, but the two molecules cannot be superimposed on top of each other. It's like looking at someone who's standing next to a mirror, and you can see him and his reflection at the same time. Apparently only one of these is the "real mccoy" and the other is inactive. Remove the inactive "isomer" and you have lexapro. Our brains can typically only use one and not the other. Putting your right glove on your left hand is not going to result in a fit. In my opinion, it's really just a way for the pharmaceutical companies to keep charging ridiculous prices for a drug whose patent has run out. I used to take 10mg lexapro, but switched to 20mg celexa (double the dose now because the inactive is back in) because of the cost. I noticed no change in effect.

SSNRI or selective serotonin norepinephrine reuptake inibitors:

Effexor causes two neurotransmitters to be held in the synapse for a bit longer than normal, serotonin AND norepinephrine. It amps up activity and can make you have anxiety and panic attacks if it's levels get too high.

Cymbalta is similar to effexor but it's change in levels with dose are more linear. To be honest I don't know anyone who has been able to stay on cymbalta without eventually having nasty side effects and having to quit. One person did not experience this but he quit taking it because it was costing him $100 per month.

Wellbutrin is not in either of these categories. It is a dopamine and norepinephrine reuptake inhibitor, and is often taken along with another SSRI drug like celexa to reduce the side effects.

If anyone is interested, I have been on celexa for many years and I recently added another drug to help reduce the slight lethargy, lack of motivation, and reduced sex drive that is caused by increased synaptic serotonin. The second drug causes dopamine to get recycled, and so far (about 6 months) I REALLY like how they are working together. I haven't included it's name here on purpose, my doctor advised against it but I am far, far below the danger dosage.


I hope this is clear and can help someone. I don't mean to discount anything anyone else has said, I'm a bit grouchy today.

Feel free to add, correct, or just bash anything I have said here!



_________________________
Craig

Guilt and shame have never done any of us any good at all.

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#159354 - 06/01/07 01:37 PM Re: Anti-depressants [Re: Morning Star]
pain4ever Offline


Registered: 04/05/01
Posts: 1032
Originally Posted By: Morning Star
Brian,

Or so you believe, it is simply the case your belief against mine. First try something yourself, and then you have the right to comment.

Morning Star

Morning Star....

Your outlook on this nearly cost my life....18 years of that attitude by me and my family and that approach left me to try to kill myself 4 times...so dont preach to me about try it first. I have! I had faith and it didnt work. I was raised in an extremely religous family, my grandfather and most the males in my family were clergy of some sort.


When there is a chemical imbalance no amount of praying can fix that!! Just like no amount of praying can fix diabetes or Epilepsy or any other chronic medical condition.

Now I am not saying this is true in AJC's situation however the prayer approach is ignoring a problem that may need to be addressed.

Prayer does not fix all and to be honest I am sick of hearing...well pray it will get better...because that doesnt always work, just like antidepressants don't always work.


_________________________
Peace and Tranquility all depends on your frame of reference.

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#159356 - 06/01/07 01:57 PM Re: Anti-depressants [Re: pain4ever]
EGL Offline
Moderator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 06/19/04
Posts: 7821
Andrew,

My wife is on Celexa, and I have to say that it has worked great for her. She has been on Lexapro before, too, I think, but I believe switched to Celexa simply because it was what the HMO was covering now. Her moods are much more stable now and she is much less prone to meltdowns than she was in the past.

I have tried several anti-depressants in the past. With the Lexapro and Celexa, I really couldn't tell any difference in my mood. With the Wellbutrin, I had sexual side effects (inability to reach orgasm), so had to get off it (it's actually used as a medication for premature ejaculation by some doctors).

I do take Xanax (actually, generic Alprazolam) now for anxiety, as I need it (like when I have to see my parents).

I think the advice to seek the counsel of your family physician is the right approach. Accurately describe your symptons, ask a lot of comparative questions, etc. Good luck!

_________________________
Eddie

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#159357 - 06/01/07 02:05 PM Re: Anti-depressants [Re: EGL]
pain4ever Offline


Registered: 04/05/01
Posts: 1032
Andrew,

Sorry to get on a rant with Morning Star.

Anyway....I take Welbutrin XL for depression. It helps greatly with keeping my mood "up" and I also take Paxil CR, that helps with my anxiety and keeps my moods level. The welbutrin helps keep my sex drive up.

This combination took the doc probably 8 months to come up with, it is not a quick process but once you get things right it really helps.

And again, you may not be bad enough that you need meds, but talk to your doctor.

Good Luck,
Brian

_________________________
Peace and Tranquility all depends on your frame of reference.

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#159424 - 06/01/07 10:15 PM Re: Anti-depressants [Re: pain4ever]
Morning Star Offline
Member

Registered: 12/21/04
Posts: 1124
Loc: Home


DO YOU BELONG TO THE CROWD that still believes that there is pill for everything, and you can fix anything by just popping a pill, and look where has the society come to; all popping pills for just about anything and everything, as the chemical industry can surely tell you that, if you've got it, we have a pill for it. And surely, you'd run up and buy it too.

And look despite all the good medicine we can buy, still everyone’s life is falling apart within, silently sometimes secret to themselves as well.

Medicine take you so far away from reality that you never want to make the efforts to heal yourself, as you know popping a pill is far easier than developing patience, reverence or serenity.

Every disease is a chemical imbalance you have been told that the pill can handle chemically, but behind every chemical imbalance lies an energy imbalance that pill can only mask, temporarily and unsuccessfully so. As long as you trust a pill more than your own and spirits ability to heal you, you will never go into its core reason of every ailment- disconnection from the spirit.

That is why people don't heal in this culture as they just want to feel better.

Have you ever wondered why suddenly everybody is on mood elevating pills, to cope with life? And no one has a clue what there soul wants from them. What a waste of human lives...

LIFE IS NOT A QUICK FIX that you can get over the counter, you have to look within for cures of life, to sit still in your dark silences and emptiness and not try to fill those spaces with entertainment of the mind.

For once you have developed enough patience and humility, that is when the answers come.

For a prayer to work to have to learn it from someone who has mastered it, or practiced it successfully, it has nothing to do with being religious by the way.

Indigenous cultures across the globe have been using spirit medicine for ages now, and successfully so. As it is all about spirit connection, and there is nothing that the spirit cannot cure, mind, body let alone human spirit.

Once we reconnect with our spirit, rest everything falls into place. Till then we just keep running trying to achieve everything at the physical level, not ever accessing our spiritual side that can make things work instantly and magnanimously.

You know so much about your self chemically, but have you ever try to know yourself, in what lies beneath it all, at the level of spirit, and energy. That is where energy or spirit medicine comes in, and it has cured people for millennia, and not just alleviate the symptoms.

Spirit goes to the root of an ailment as only it can, really speaking, otherwise people think just because the symptoms have been silenced enough chemically, they have cure, and sure enough the disease returned, relapses, as the underlying ‘dis-ease’ rarely gets addressed. Every disease is born out of a ‘dis-ease’ within, fix the dis-ease and you fix the disease automatically, as it is only a symptom after all...

That way every disease can be used as an excellent guide to cure your soul, that is why mystics for centuries have used the darkness of their depression to switch on their inner light.

ONCE PILLS HAVE FAILED PEOPLE, and doctors have given up, they turn to prayer or to the spirit any way.

Though why not do it before that, and give it the same faith; you give to your chemist, right now.

That is why at the end of life, it is the spirit you have to turn to when nothing works to fix you. There is no pill, for the emptiness you feel inside. That something science will never be able to offer you, and thankfully so.

So when you really want to heal in life, bend your knees and look upwards and within, till such time, go ahead pop a pill, at least as long as you think it is working.

Though, you can always add a prayer to your pill.


MS


_________________________
~ It's over!...Let go of Thy Past, Remember Thy Self ~

Why Don't People Heal, by Caroline Myss; 30 days to clean up your vibrations - Abraham-Hicks

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#159429 - 06/01/07 10:23 PM Re: Anti-depressants [Re: Morning Star]
EGL Offline
Moderator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 06/19/04
Posts: 7821
Quote:

Every disease is born out of a ‘dis-ease’ within, fix the dis-ease and you fix the disease automatically


I really don't believe all those children in Africa with AIDS have a "disease" that is really a "dis-ease".

In light of that, I find your post rather offensive.



Edited by EGL (06/01/07 10:53 PM)
_________________________
Eddie

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#159430 - 06/01/07 10:25 PM Re: Anti-depressants [Re: Morning Star]
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
Andrew,

I think the best thing for you to do is consult your doctor and follow his/her advice. A qualified physician is essential, since the results need to be monitored to see if the drug or combination of drugs is working for you. It can be frustrating at first, because you may not get the results you need and the meds and dosages may need to be changed.

My experience is that it's worth it in the end. I'm on Celexa and at first I hated it - I felt like I was floating an inch off the floor. But in a week or so I settled down and it has helped me a lot.

Much love,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

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