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#158991 - 05/29/07 10:56 PM God as a Father figure
grover Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/28/07
Posts: 50
Loc: Tennessee
I've been struggling with this a lot lately. God is supposed to be the ultimate father figure, yet all I know of a father figure is someone who was judgemental, emotionally abusive/distant, and the main reason I could not tell about the sexual abuse I was receiving at school.

How have any of you reconciled this?

_________________________
Shocking revelations, we are all deeply effected.
-the Waitresses "Wise up"

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#158995 - 05/29/07 11:14 PM Re: God as a Father figure [Re: grover]
EGL Offline
Moderator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 06/19/04
Posts: 7821
Hi Grover,

I was physically and emotionally abused by my father as well as a child, and like you, I knew I could never tell him what was going on with the sexual abuse. I think the main way I reconciled myself to God was to realize that He was everything that my earthly father wasn't. Looking at Him in that manner allowed me to want to have Him for a Father in my life; the perfect Father.

_________________________
Eddie

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#158996 - 05/29/07 11:20 PM Re: God as a Father figure [Re: EGL]
FormerTexan Offline
Site Administrator
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 09/12/04
Posts: 11053
Loc: Denver, CO
To me a father is clueless, absent physically, and absent emotionally. There is no nurturing, no training in life, no real relationship to speak of. And any pursuit of that with him is a fruitless endeavor.

I imagine my dad sitting in a chair, God standing in front of me pointing at my dad, looking at me and saying "That's not me." Then God brought various people into my life, to provide that nurturing and validation that's been missing all this time.

_________________________
List of things ain't nobody got time for:

1. That


If I could meet myself as a boy...

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#158999 - 05/30/07 12:38 AM Re: God as a Father figure [Re: FormerTexan]
Halibut Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/29/06
Posts: 228
Loc: Alaska
Hi Grover,

God is beyond, is transcendant. Anything we say about God has to come from human experience, and is only an image of who God is, not the reality. God is father, mother, son, shepherd, lamb, warrior, peace-giver, Alpha,Omega, friend, savior, etc. etc. etc. Whatever image we use needs to be supplimented by other images.

What FT says above is right on---there's many images or model of God we use that God would look at and say, "That's not me".

God is always more.

Frank


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#159053 - 05/30/07 10:18 AM Re: God as a Father figure [Re: Halibut]
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
Grover,

A very wise friend here once put it to me that when we envisage God in terms of the defective father figures we may have in our own lives, then "our God is too small". I take that to mean that the failings of father figures or other male role models in our lives tell us nothing about the character of God. When we do that, then, as FT says, God wants us to know, "That's not me!"

Much love,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

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#159069 - 05/30/07 11:17 AM Re: God as a Father figure [Re: grover]
Morning Star Offline
Member

Registered: 12/21/04
Posts: 1124
Loc: Home
Grover,

The problem with thinking of God as a father figure has an intrinsic problem as you very well described here.

God is actually the Source energy that creates all that is, and is all that is, does include you. So instead of humanizing God has most religions do, try to see God for what He is, the Source that's all.

Now with that knowledge, you can see yourself as a river, moving towards the Source - the Ocean, constantly.

Divine Father or Divine Mother concepts can be limiting for abuse survivors, so it makes all the more sense to expand on the definition of what we know as God.

If even then you have issues with a higher authority, simply drop that too; see God as a presence within you, as that is where the 'kingdom' truly lies...The whole idea about connecting with divinity is to connect with our own, so whatever way suits you in realizing that you are sacred, is fine.

Unless you begin to see yourself as spirit, living in a body, divinity seems but a distant dream. But drop the body and that is all there is left to you.

People spend years and years in trying to fixing their broken vase, piece by piece; little do they know that if only they could offer it all to the Creator, to remould it for them, they would be renewed all over again, in an instant.

Go within, as that is the only place you will ever find God, ever. As the ancient mystic Kabir once said, "Just as fire resides in the Flintstone; your God resides in you. Now wake up if you can..."

When I see God, as some kind of human being I can get angry or mad at Him, but when I know, I am only addressing the Source, I realize getting mad is of no use, as I am also all that is, so in the end I am only getting mad at myself. No wonder staying angry at God never works.

Morning Star

_________________________
~ It's over!...Let go of Thy Past, Remember Thy Self ~

Why Don't People Heal, by Caroline Myss; 30 days to clean up your vibrations - Abraham-Hicks

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#159087 - 05/30/07 01:50 PM Re: God as a Father figure [Re: Morning Star]
Chain Breaker Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/21/07
Posts: 376
Loc: Michigan
I think that we all see God differently, but in western and near-eastern religious tradition, we use the term Father and believe that this is what He is.

In my faith, we believe that in its literal sense -- i.e., the literal Father of our spirits. So when we sing "I Am A Child of God," we really mean it. I was not truly abused by my father, but I feel he did neglect us emotionally. Every time I think of a flaw in my earthly father, I tell myself that this is not a flaw in my Heavenly Father. For me, God is the definition of the perfect man. Had I been sexually abused by my father, though, I don't think I could sustain this view, as I would have believed that all men are bad. I don't think my dad is a bad person, but he was very absent from my life. I was fortunate, though, to have good men in my life -- mostly from my church, but also some school teachers -- who treated me with kindness and tried to reassure me that I was a good person.

For me, what works to help me understand God is simply to remind myself when bad things happen, that is the opposite of God, and when good things happen, that this is the character of God.

I hope this helps in some way.

Joe

_________________________
My name is Joe. I am a survivor and a good man. You can count on me.

CB

"[Insert your name here], I am [Chain Breaker]. Do you see that I am your friend? Can you see that you will always be my friend?"
--Wind In His Hair, Dances With Wolves

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#159093 - 05/30/07 03:22 PM Re: God as a Father figure [Re: Chain Breaker]
shadowkid Offline
WARNING from ModTeam, September 2013: user "Shadowkid" was exposed as a hoaxer. His entire online persona and stories of sexual abuse were fiction. We encourage you not to become emotionally concerned by anything you see in any of his posts. Thank you
Member
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Registered: 11/18/05
Posts: 2437
why?why is it that if its bad well it has nothing to do with god but if its good he gets all the credit? if its bad well its free will and mans fault ,if its good well then its god. all the fame and none of the blame? dont work for me

_________________________
its not hard to fall
when you float like a cannonball - damien rice

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#159099 - 05/30/07 04:37 PM Re: God as a Father figure [Re: shadowkid]
Chain Breaker Offline
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MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/21/07
Posts: 376
Loc: Michigan
Originally Posted By: shadowkid
why?why is it that if its bad well it has nothing to do with god but if its good he gets all the credit? if its bad well its free will and mans fault ,if its good well then its god. all the fame and none of the blame? dont work for me

I don't blame you for feeling that way. I also didn't say that we should give God all the credit. I just said that all the goodness is his character. I didn't mean to say, at all, that all goodness was God's work.

The way I see it, everything that people do is based on free will. I don't believe in a god who provides everything on demand or who works out all our problems. We could get into a big theological discussion, which is what I feared this thread might become, but I don't see the point. For me, God is the Father of my spirit. He sent me to earth to gain a body, to be tested as to how I use my free will, to learn to live by faith, and to serve his other children. In the end, when He judges me, it won't be purely on the basis of what I've done or accomplished; it will be on how well I've overcome my own circumstances. I believe He will take into consideration where my starting place is. So if I start in last place, it's o.k. I will be judged not on where I end up, but on how far I went. If I have had special circumstances in my life that have made it harder, I will be judged in light of those circumstances. In the end, my judgment will come down to how well I learned to live by faith, whether I served God's children, and how I use my free will.

If you can't see it the way I do, why should I hold that against you. We're all where we are, and we can only move on from where we are at the pace we're capable of going.

On the issue of who gets the credit when I do something good, the way I see it is that I get the credit for using the light within me. Yes, it was by my exercise of free will that the good thing happened. So I get the credit. God only gets the credit to the extent that I choose to pass it on to Him. If I view my decision as an extension of the light of God, then I will give Him credit for placing that light in me.

As for who gets the blame, God is known by many names -- "the Preventer" is not one of them. It is not his duty to usurp free will or magically make things not happen to us. It is his duty to console us when we turn to Him in sorrow and to give us emotional strength when we turn to Him in weakness and pain. We have our own part to do, which He expects. But we do it in partnership with Him.

That is my belief. If you don't agree with me or even if you feel you can't ever feel good about God, I still care just as much about you.

_________________________
My name is Joe. I am a survivor and a good man. You can count on me.

CB

"[Insert your name here], I am [Chain Breaker]. Do you see that I am your friend? Can you see that you will always be my friend?"
--Wind In His Hair, Dances With Wolves

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#159101 - 05/30/07 04:50 PM Re: God as a Father figure [Re: Chain Breaker]
FormerTexan Offline
Site Administrator
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 09/12/04
Posts: 11053
Loc: Denver, CO
Joe,

Many parts of what you shared make sense to me. I hear this one especially:

"It is not his duty to usurp free will or magically make things not happen to us."

I'm willing to bet that if we took a poll on how many would want God usurping their free will in a given moment, most people would say no. I can't tell you how often I believed in a mistake I was making before I saw it as a mistake. I would not have wanted my free will overridden, even if I was hell-bent on hurting myself.

_________________________
List of things ain't nobody got time for:

1. That


If I could meet myself as a boy...

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#159112 - 05/30/07 05:58 PM Re: God as a Father figure [Re: shadowkid]
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
Shadow,

Originally Posted By: shadowkid
why?why is it that if its bad well it has nothing to do with god but if its good he gets all the credit? if its bad well its free will and mans fault ,if its good well then its god. all the fame and none of the blame? dont work for me


There is in fact a theological answer to that question. In Christianity I think it goes back to Augustine, who argues in The City of God that God is the ultimate of goodness. So as one moves away from God and from godliness, one is also moving away from goodness. Evil is not the opposite of good, it is the absence of good, just as darkness is the complete absence of light. Evil cannot be the work of God, since evil reflects, to one degree or another, the absence of good, which is the essence of God's godliness.

There's the argument, bro. What say you? ;\)

Much love,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

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#159158 - 05/30/07 10:08 PM Re: God as a Father figure [Re: roadrunner]
MemoryVault Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/01/07
Posts: 693
Loc: NJ
I used to be kind of smug about not believing. (I scandalized my kindergarten class when I announced I was an atheist--don't even know where I got the word from.)

But now, I'm just kind of freaked out that there's this whole part of people's being that I just...don't...get! It's like being color blind and hearing people talk about reds and blues constantly. I understand the ways people talk about God and faith, and I know how the arguments go because I've heard them before. But the words mean nothing to me, and they never have. I don't think they're fools--and I'm not defying some secret belief--I just don't seem to go there.


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#159162 - 05/30/07 10:27 PM Re: God as a Father figure [Re: MemoryVault]
shadowkid Offline
WARNING from ModTeam, September 2013: user "Shadowkid" was exposed as a hoaxer. His entire online persona and stories of sexual abuse were fiction. We encourage you not to become emotionally concerned by anything you see in any of his posts. Thank you
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/18/05
Posts: 2437
exactly!you nailed it for me m.v. good response! rr tex ,and chain thanks for your answers and thanks for your acceptence of someone that just trying to understand
." So as one moves away from God and from godliness, one is also moving away from goodness: its stuff like this i dont understand ,is it saying that as an 11 year old i chose to move away from god? sorry probably highjacking the thread

'

_________________________
its not hard to fall
when you float like a cannonball - damien rice

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#159169 - 05/30/07 11:09 PM Re: God as a Father figure [Re: FormerTexan]
Still Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/16/07
Posts: 6401
Loc: 2.5 NATO Nations
God is God to me...not a father figure. I was on a beach on Cape Cod at 14yo...a total mess. Wanted to die. I was the midst of selling myself to the neighborhood jerks back home. Was abandoned by the perp that I felt great affection for and needed in my life.

I was raised Catholic and saw holes in what was being pithed at me. When I met David, (a street evangelist in Hyannis) he showed me the bible and un-adulterated truth. He showed me that I needed to accept Jesus as my savior. A day later, I did. What happened, I can only describe as a miracle. It was as if a 40lb weight was ripped out of my chest. All the hurt and hate and shame were gone! I fell back onto the ground and cried for about 2 hours.

The reasons I strayed in the years to come were MY doing. I chose to stray. But he'll always take me back.

Just one survivor's story about this topic. i hope it does not cause any angst or anger. It just that its happened to me...and that I survived through a lot with HIM by my side. Its hard to explain...but I was a dead-boy walking...and he saved me!

Call it trauma-reaction, call it "nuts," call it whatever you wish. I love the Lord and he loves the hell out of me...and I'm always here to talk more about it with anyone. I already have talked to some of you...and I dont know why we were abused...Why I was beaten by Dad and raped by them...Why I sold myself in later years.

edit: and do I know I'm a horrible witness to a wonderful God...but that's MY doing. You can point to my drug and alcohol use to prove that as true. The wonderful thing is...HE forgives me for being horrible...That my salvation is based upon accepting him as my saviour and nothing more...nothing less! He knows we are human and forgives us if we just ask.

Robbie



Edited by Robbie Brown (05/31/07 01:16 PM)
_________________________
Wishing You Were Here!

The Aftermath Video

The Water Buffalo Song

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#159207 - 05/31/07 08:04 AM Re: God as a Father figure [Re: Still]
pietie Offline
Guest

Registered: 01/23/07
Posts: 326
Loc: South Africa
Well put Rob.

I wasnt abused by my father. My father was simply absent in my life. My eldest brother got all his love. I never knew the words "I love You" from him. So in terms of my dad I could not draw the connection.

After giving my life to the Lord I started experiencing His love for me as a father. To me the father refers to someone who will love you despite everything. Who will be there, someone you can talk to. In most difficult times I find peace in just sitting and talking to God. Telling Him everything He already knows - but it gets it out of my system.

What helped me most in life drawing the similarities is being a dad myself. I love my children so much and give them everything my father never did and telling them I love them. That changes the perspective as I know that I only want the best for them and bee ther for them. I am not always able to be there for instance when they are at school, I cant protect them from getting hurt. It still hurts me. The same with God. What happened to us hurts Him as well but He can not necisarily intervene in that situation.

_________________________
Not Perfect, just forgiven

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#159232 - 05/31/07 12:42 PM Re: God as a Father figure [Re: pietie]
FormerTexan Offline
Site Administrator
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 09/12/04
Posts: 11053
Loc: Denver, CO
"In most difficult times I find peace in just sitting and talking to God. Telling Him everything He already knows - but it gets it out of my system."

Tjaart,

That makes lots of sense to me. I sure can't hide anything from God - actions, pain, whatever. It's foolish to think I can do so. But praying, talking about it to God, when it seems I am all alone and have no where else to turn, makes things better. Not to say that God is the last resort, but that's often how I've approached things.

_________________________
List of things ain't nobody got time for:

1. That


If I could meet myself as a boy...

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#159254 - 05/31/07 06:30 PM Re: God as a Father figure [Re: FormerTexan]
EGL Offline
Moderator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 06/19/04
Posts: 7821
Originally Posted By: FormerTexan
"In most difficult times I find peace in just sitting and talking to God. Telling Him everything He already knows - but it gets it out of my system."

Tjaart,

That makes lots of sense to me. I sure can't hide anything from God - actions, pain, whatever. It's foolish to think I can do so. But praying, talking about it to God, when it seems I am all alone and have no where else to turn, makes things better. Not to say that God is the last resort, but that's often how I've approached things.


Tjaart / Andy - That's it exactly for me as well. Very well said.

_________________________
Eddie

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#159293 - 05/31/07 11:31 PM Re: God as a Father figure [Re: EGL]
Morning Star Offline
Member

Registered: 12/21/04
Posts: 1124
Loc: Home


JUST AS HEALING, even God cannot be reached through the mind, or through intellectual pursuits like reasoning or logic, that is why the way to God or becoming whole, is called the way of the mystics.

A path that remains a mystery for all; and it is revealed to those who are willing to surrender to the mystery and still walk towards it, in faith and reverence, because it is the path to the sacred.

Step by step, leaf by leaf, this mystery is revealed unto us.

Though eventually we might get healed or get a glimpse of the Light Divine, but the full mystery of the nature of God, and the way this Universe works, will remains mostly a mystery even to greatest mystics of all; who spend lifetimes discovering, and stretching their souls to hold the glimmer of the Light divine.

Ultimately it is their longing for the scared, that sustains them through the trials the night, that the sacred put us through again and again, so that they can become worthy vessels to hold the Light Divine, so that it can then reveal to them, moments of great insights to them, when the divine step into their lives and shows them a new perspective to this mystery called life.

That day we realize that if not for the darkness we faced, and humanly unfathomable pathways we traversed, we would have never been able to surrender or given ‘up’ our human or mental or ego-led ways, by asking the Light divine to illuminate our pathways.

It is the dismantling of our ego that takes so long, and the tighter we hold on to it, the slower our healing would be.

In the end it is journey of the heart that cannot be traversed with our mind as a guide and the vehicle.

EVENTUALLY, the mind has to be abandoned by the roadside, if we ever want to enter the Castle of our soul.

We also have to abandon all the facades of ego, the mind, the body and the intellect so that the soul can then use them as its vehicles.

To gain entry into the castle can be utterly empowering and disempowering experience for us, empowering for the soul and disempowering for the ego, the ego will get angry, man and eventually depressed as it will no longer be allowed to have any power over its kingdom, and that is the sign that the old, unreal world the about to collapse and true kingdom is ready to arises, from within.

It is the breaking of this illusion, of being separate from the whole that takes the longest to break, though as always nothing frees us from darkness of ignorance as the truth itself.

So, to enter the castle of our soul; be prepared to stand naked in your soul.

SUCH MOMENTS OF ILLUMINATION come far and in between and to those who learn to wait in patience and in serenity.

But in that single moment, everything that we have gone through starts making sense to us, and then we cannot help but breakdown into tears of gratitude offered up to the divine and to our own soul, who took us through this, the dark night of our soul.

In that one moment all that we have been through, also dissolves back into the light, as if it never happened. That is what is called miracle of healing.

Healing or becoming whole is only possible when we decide to merge back with the whole.

As for us, we once again realize our true nature that of the tiny particle of Light divine; that we once were to begin with, adding our light to the mighty sun that the Source is. That way, we are all on our way to become the tiny sparkles of the sun that we once were, we are on our way back home.

BUT THIS JOURNEY BEGINS only when an individual drops all his knowledge, or the definitions, personal maps of the universe and is willing to step into the dark night with only God as his guide, as God can take us back home.

And so one day we might finally say to our self that now I want discover life on my own, I will let Life guide me through this, and now I want to 'experience' life, healing, and God.

And that is when the miracle happens, of life, healing and of God.

The journey is of a thousand life times, though can happen in a moment too.

Personally, I cannot convince anyone to believe or disbelieve in God for that would quite presumptuous of me to even think. It is a personal journey, each one of us needs to make, on our own, and when we are ready.

Just like, we heal, when we are ready to be healed.

WE HEAL NOT BECAUSE WE WANTED TO; we heal because we allowed love in. Life loves us, unconditionally, for it loves itself. That is why, the greatest gift we can ever give to ourselves, is to allow ourselves to be loved. To believe that we are love is the beginning to healing, and of harmony in life.

To allow, simply means to relax into who we are, to relax into the present moment, and to just be.



Morning Star


_________________________
~ It's over!...Let go of Thy Past, Remember Thy Self ~

Why Don't People Heal, by Caroline Myss; 30 days to clean up your vibrations - Abraham-Hicks

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#159552 - 06/02/07 10:12 PM Re: God as a Father figure [Re: Morning Star]
noloveinfear Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 09/05/05
Posts: 12
Loc: US
Shadowkid said,

"why?why is it that if its bad well it has nothing to do with god but if its good he gets all the credit? if its bad well its free will and mans fault ,if its good well then its god. all the fame and none of the blame? dont work for me"

I have to say that I totally agree with shadowkid. I don't see how there is any truly honest way to get around the fact that, if God (defined as all powerful, all knowing, and all loving) exists, this world, this existence should not be the way it is. Wonderful things happen in life and terrible things happen in live (as all of us know here). Clearly, it is a double standard to apply all of the good to god and all of the bad to humans (especially using the free will "answer" which is refuted by natural disasters among other things). I haven't been okay with this type of thinking/understanding for a really long time. I care about the truth and strive to see what is real and what is delusion in my thinking and in the world. Personally I just don't think that god can be real and if "he" does exist than "he" has a lot of explaining to do. Just needed to add that thanks for listening.

andrew

_________________________
I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.

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#159564 - 06/03/07 01:48 AM Re: God as a Father figure [Re: noloveinfear]
pietie Offline
Guest

Registered: 01/23/07
Posts: 326
Loc: South Africa
Andrew

We do not apply all the bad to humans. Christianity teaches us that there is a continuous struggle between good and evil or God and Satan. It further says that Satan came to steal and kill. I truely believe in God as a loving peron. Why do people, and this I have seen in many insidences, blame God when things go wrong but do not honour Him when things are great? There is a constant struggle between bad and good and we need to decide which road we are going to take.

To come back to the original thread. I, as a father sometimes have to allow certain things to happen to my children who I dearly love. If I told them don't do this or that for the upteenth time I sometimes need to allow them to suffer the consequences of their acts. It doenst mean I love them any less if they get hurt and I will be there to comfort them but also to magnify the lesson they had to learn. Sometimes we dont listen to God and we need to learn a thing or two.

_________________________
Not Perfect, just forgiven

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#159584 - 06/03/07 06:59 AM Re: God as a Father figure [Re: shadowkid]
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
Shadow,

Originally Posted By: shadowkid
" So as one moves away from God and from godliness, one is also moving away from goodness": its stuff like this i dont understand ,is it saying that as an 11 year old i chose to move away from god? sorry probably highjacking the thread


First of all, it's always a great pleasure to discuss things with you. I know you are struggling and trying to understand. You should know that I am in more or less the same place. I do consider myself a spiritual guy, but when it comes to relating to God myself, well, there is just nothing there, just as David puts it.

But on to your question about the quotation. No, it doesn't mean that as an 11-year-old you chose to move away from God. You were a traumatized and brutalized child, Shadow, and if anyone knows that God does. How could he possibly blame you?

The same goes for your questions and anger as a young adult. If God can't handle questions and anger from guys like you, then what the hell CAN he handle? Part of the reason we feel a need for God in our lives is precisely the fact of his boundless patience and mercy. We are allowed to be imperfect, Shadow; that doesn't shut us off from God. Rage and doubt all you want; God can hang around and wait for you to figure things out, and in the meantime I really do believe he will help you by sending you people to stand by you. Actually, he has sent you quite a few already.

I think this is relevant to the topic of the thread too. As a father myself I know there have been many times I have wanted to rush in to "save the day" for my son. But sometimes I can see that I can't do that. I can let him know what I think and advise him of the path I think he should follow, but if he is to develop into a full and complete man he has to learn to make his own decisions and then deal with the consequences. At some point I have to stand back and let him do his thing, knowing that in a few hours I will be helping him pick up the pieces.

The comparison between a human father and God the father of course breaks down pretty fast when we ask about things like CSA. Wouldn't I protect my son from that if I could? You bet I would!!!

The difficulty is that God the divine father, as opposed to imperfect-little-old-me the human father, has boundless power and knowledge. If he intervened to prevent every catastrophe that was within his power to stop, well, then there would be no more floods, air crashes, famines, fires, AIDS, crime, war, CSA, or anything bad at all. But what would the relationship be between us and God? We would be puppets on strings dancing to the tune of the Great Puppetmaster. If we complained, he would just say, "I am trying to save you."

But it's here that we can reconnect to the idea of a father. Every father wants his son to be free and independent one day. But with that freedom comes responsibility. There just isn't any way around that fact, whether we are talking about God as a father or ourselves as fathers.

Much love,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

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#159876 - 06/04/07 07:11 PM Re: God as a Father figure [Re: roadrunner]
Nichxx86 Offline
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Registered: 06/04/07
Posts: 5
Loc: Virginia
Hi, first post on these forums. Dont like talking about my past out of shame/regret but i guess i shouldnt hold these things back anymore.

As for my spirituality, god is the only one i can trust in this world(sadly). My past experiences scared my entire life. Depression, anxiety, lonlieness, hopelessness, being scared to get too close to anyone are just a few of what ive had the past 15 years now (im 20).

Luckily directly after those years i seeked god(yes even at the ripe age of 6) in my sin and shame he was the only one i trusted. I had no hope and would struggle with sexual addiction through my teen and preteen years. It got to the point where i stole my mothers credit card and spent 1k$(which eventually was resolved) to look at porn on the web.

I can only look to god for guidance and forgivness and some hope for a brighter future. I keep a good attitude but i feel soo unconfident(even at the age of 20) that its hard to speak without lowering my voice/looking away from who i talk too, etc.


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#159917 - 06/04/07 09:51 PM Re: God as a Father figure [Re: Nichxx86]
WalkingSouth Offline
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Hi Nich,

Welcome to our home on the web. Glad you found us, tho sorry for the reason you are here. As you've probably seen, there is some controversy around the topic you posted your first post to, but I honor and thank you for having the courage to speak up about your thoughts on this subject. Keep talking, Friend. I think you'll find a lot of support here among a bunch of really great guys.

Lots of love,

John

_________________________
“Life’s journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting ‘Holy ____…! What a ride!’” ~Hunter S. Thompson

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#159928 - 06/04/07 11:59 PM Re: God as a Father figure [Re: WalkingSouth]
dean1320 Offline
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Registered: 02/06/07
Posts: 129
Loc: Atlanta, GA , US
I think God definitely works through all of us. He is ALL, including US, including the times when we felt distant from ourselves, each of our brothers and Him. Love you all


Your Brother,

_________________________
NEVER QUIT .

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#159929 - 06/05/07 12:01 AM Re: God as a Father figure [Re: dean1320]
dean1320 Offline
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nich,

i'm with you entirely on your laast comment here. i'm 35 and know exactly where you're at.

peace,

T

_________________________
NEVER QUIT .

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#159992 - 06/05/07 09:34 AM Re: God as a Father figure [Re: pietie]
Chain Breaker Offline
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Originally Posted By: noloveinfear
I don't see how there is any truly honest way to get around the fact that, if God (defined as all powerful, all knowing, and all loving) exists, this world, this existence should not be the way it is.

To me, the problem is in your definition of God. I do not believe Him to be all-powerful. He does not have unlimited power over beings with free will. This makes his power finite. Many people will disagree with me on this, but I just don't believe that part of the definition. Second, I do not believe God to be all-loving. I believe that He abhors evil. He may love all his children, true enough, but he does not love all their actions.

I also believe that, even though God has great power, He does not always choose to use it. I do not believe that He influences elections or sporting events, for example. I also believe that, for the most part, He does not normally interfere in the operations of the natural world. And, while He didn't plan them, He allows natural disasters to take place and to test how we respond. They are a great growth and testing device for us. I am always amazed at the outpouring of good will that takes place after natural disasters. Compassion is a gift of God. His intervention generally is not on the prevention side -- it is on the response side.

If you do not believe in God, you are likely to respond to bad events by asking why they happen. If you do, then you ask how we, as believers, ought to respond to these events.

_________________________
My name is Joe. I am a survivor and a good man. You can count on me.

CB

"[Insert your name here], I am [Chain Breaker]. Do you see that I am your friend? Can you see that you will always be my friend?"
--Wind In His Hair, Dances With Wolves

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#160025 - 06/05/07 02:18 PM Re: God as a Father figure [Re: Chain Breaker]
shadowkid Offline
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test? my abuse was a test of my faith? what kind of god would put a kid through something like that just to prove a point?! i think for me part of the problem is that my idea of religon was formed up till the time the abuse started at 11 ,an 11 year old sees god way different than an adult,god was supposed to protect me ,god saw everything and if i was good then god would protect me pure and simple. no one and i mean no one has more faith in something they cant see or feel than an 11 year old ,god let me down,or whoever taught me about god lied,thats what pisses me off it was all a huge fucking lie to make me be good ,i lived in fear of what god would do if i was bad,till the abuse then i learned the truth.

_________________________
its not hard to fall
when you float like a cannonball - damien rice

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#160026 - 06/05/07 02:25 PM Re: God as a Father figure [Re: shadowkid]
shadowkid Offline
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maybe i was testing god ,and boy did he fail

_________________________
its not hard to fall
when you float like a cannonball - damien rice

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#160030 - 06/05/07 03:37 PM Re: God as a Father figure [Re: shadowkid]
FormerTexan Offline
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I try to draw understanding from the Book of Job on such matters. I doubt that this book is there to minimize our personal sufferings in life (ie I did not have it as bad as Job). Rather, it shows us origin of suffering and how it can be viewed and dealt with.

_________________________
List of things ain't nobody got time for:

1. That


If I could meet myself as a boy...

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#160060 - 06/05/07 06:47 PM Re: God as a Father figure [Re: shadowkid]
roadrunner Offline
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Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
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Adam,

Originally Posted By: shadowkid
test? my abuse was a test of my faith? what kind of god would put a kid through something like that just to prove a point?!


For what it's worth, my answer would be that subjecting a child to abuse can have nothing at all to do with God. Same with the idea of Abraham being called upon to sacrifice his son.

I deal with this by looking at the Bible as a human creation. It's been known for almost 200 years that the books of the Bible put together stories that were circulating in the time of the ancient Israelites. Those stories inspired them in varous ways and for various reasons, and they can still be meaningful to us today. But we don't need to elevate them to the divine word of God himself and matters of historical truth in order to take them seriously.

If there is a God at all, then we have our intelligence from him. It doesn't ring true for me that God would give us that intelligence and then ask us to believe things that make no sense (for example, prophets who live for hundreds of years).

But perhaps this is getting off-topic. Sorry.

Much love,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

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#160147 - 06/06/07 02:02 AM Re: God as a Father figure [Re: shadowkid]
pietie Offline
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Registered: 01/23/07
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Loc: South Africa
Originally Posted By: shadowkid
test? my abuse was a test of my faith? what kind of god would put a kid through something like that just to prove a point?!


No I dont think it was a test of your or our faith. Bad things happen in life and as I posted earlier there is a bad and an evil struggle.

There is something I want you to think about. The bible teaches that He will let all bad things turn to good. I personally believe that I would not have been the peron I am today if it wasn't for the abuse. Yes I am struggling and dealing with a lot more than other people but I truely believ I would not have been so compassionate and caring towards hurting people as I am today. So if I could change the past would I. No I wouldn't because that is part of who I am today. That enables me to help other dealing with the same issues. To know what they are going through.

To come back to the original thread. If one of my beutiful boys CHOOSE to use drugs. What can I do about it? I can try to help and be there for them. But I can not make them to stop if they do not want to. I still love them just as much because they remain my children. I will be there when they have to face the consequences of their actions. Just like that God gave us our free will to CHOOSE, even our perps chose to do this to us. It does not mean God loves us any less or want to be less of a father. He still loves us and waits for us. Its all about people having a free will and having the freedom to CHOOSE.

And yes I do see God as a fther figure to me. Numerous times I could talk to Him like I never did to my earthly father. I know He listens but I also know He loved me so much He gave His Son so I could be Free.

_________________________
Not Perfect, just forgiven

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#160317 - 06/06/07 10:05 PM Re: God as a Father figure [Re: pietie]
dean1320 Offline
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Registered: 02/06/07
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T ,
I 100% agree with you on that.

Love always,

Trav

_________________________
NEVER QUIT .

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#160325 - 06/06/07 10:48 PM Re: God as a Father figure [Re: pietie]
grover Offline
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Registered: 05/28/07
Posts: 50
Loc: Tennessee
Originally Posted By: pietie
[quote=shadowkid]
There is something I want you to think about. The bible teaches that He will let all bad things turn to good. I personally believe that I would not have been the peron I am today if it wasn't for the abuse. Yes I am struggling and dealing with a lot more than other people but I truely believ I would not have been so compassionate and caring towards hurting people as I am today. So if I could change the past would I. No I wouldn't because that is part of who I am today. That enables me to help other dealing with the same issues. To know what they are going through.


That's the other major struggle I've had. Everytime I've heard a minister teach on that>
_________________________
Shocking revelations, we are all deeply effected.
-the Waitresses "Wise up"

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#160331 - 06/06/07 11:55 PM Re: God as a Father figure [Re: grover]
shadowkid Offline
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im with you grover, still waiting for the bad to change to good ok he gave his son that dont mean he can sacrifice me. wasnt one enough?

_________________________
its not hard to fall
when you float like a cannonball - damien rice

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#160343 - 06/07/07 02:19 AM Re: God as a Father figure [Re: shadowkid]
pietie Offline
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Hey guys

This is starting to feel like more of a debate. I am sharing my own experience and it doe not mean you have to agree.

Grover, I know all those emotions of depression, isolation and self doubt. I can add suicide to that as well. I still believe because He loved me He did not allow me to be succesful in any of my attempts to end it all. And I want to come back to what I said earlier. God is not the only one involved in the fight. There is satan too. Why do we so easily blame God for what happened and forget about satan?

Adam, how many people in here have you helped? You have been such an inspiration to me although we have not really talked. Don't you think the things you share and the road you have travelled has made such a difference to many of us? So ther is some bad that changed to good in there.

So this will be my last post to this thread as I believe our focus should be on healing and not in disagreement.

_________________________
Not Perfect, just forgiven

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#160358 - 06/07/07 08:01 AM Re: God as a Father figure [Re: pietie]
shadowkid Offline
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thanks pietie,you have helped me to ,i thought since grover started the thread i was just responding to him ,please understand that to be honest i want what you have ,i want so much to have faith and im working towards that ,but the only way i see to get there is by questioning everything i can to try to understand what happened and what god did or did not have to do with it.thanks for trying to help me understand . adam

_________________________
its not hard to fall
when you float like a cannonball - damien rice

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#160406 - 06/07/07 11:55 AM Re: God as a Father figure [Re: shadowkid]
FormerTexan Offline
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Adam,

Questioning is a great way to understand. How does one learn if they do not ask?

Just curious, have you ever read Job, and if so how did it strike you?

_________________________
List of things ain't nobody got time for:

1. That


If I could meet myself as a boy...

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#160486 - 06/07/07 06:50 PM Re: God as a Father figure [Re: FormerTexan]
roadrunner Offline
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Registered: 05/02/05
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Adam,

There's another book I think you would really like, the play J.B. by Archibald MacLeish. It's a retelling of the story of Job, and in it the wealthy businessman J.B. is destroyed much as Job was, but in this case the three friends who come to talk to him represent Science, Philosophy and Religion. Very thought-provoking - MacLeish won the Pulitzer three times, one of them for this play.

Much love,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

Top
#160513 - 06/07/07 09:16 PM Re: God as a Father figure [Re: roadrunner]
shadowkid Offline
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thanks guys ,i have not read either of those ,have you ever heard of the gnostic gospells? the part of the bible that the church left out? its a totaly different much more beleivable explanation of lots of these things but i dont wanna hijack the thread . adam

_________________________
its not hard to fall
when you float like a cannonball - damien rice

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#160576 - 06/08/07 02:40 AM Re: God as a Father figure [Re: shadowkid]
Chain Breaker Offline
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The Gnostic Gospels were left out of the canon for good reason. Gnosticism was considered a heresy as soon as the church learned about it. It was a mystical movement within Christianity, and it rewrote the>
_________________________
My name is Joe. I am a survivor and a good man. You can count on me.

CB

"[Insert your name here], I am [Chain Breaker]. Do you see that I am your friend? Can you see that you will always be my friend?"
--Wind In His Hair, Dances With Wolves

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#160588 - 06/08/07 07:36 AM Re: God as a Father figure [Re: Chain Breaker]
shadowkid Offline
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maybe they were left out cause they are the truth,and show that there is no need for the church at all,maybe we can get to the spiritual place on our own .what would happen if suddenly the church no longer had power over people?peace maybe?

_________________________
its not hard to fall
when you float like a cannonball - damien rice

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#160594 - 06/08/07 07:57 AM Re: God as a Father figure [Re: shadowkid]
FormerTexan Offline
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I did a study on this once. I ran across a book called The Other Gospels, and another called The Other Bible, and have bought both. The difference in literary style to the bible as we know it today is astounding. Some of the books are apocrypha, some are pseudopigrapha. CB, correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding is that apocrypha are considered historically accurate, but were not canonized because of their lack of literary connection with what is canonized. I'm not sure that even makes sense to me. Pseudopigrapha are the books that are old forgeries, or the gnostic books.

_________________________
List of things ain't nobody got time for:

1. That


If I could meet myself as a boy...

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#160610 - 06/08/07 08:47 AM Re: God as a Father figure [Re: FormerTexan]
shadowkid Offline
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the bible is the forgery it was designed to make the church the only way to god or salvation ,how much power is that ,thats why preists got away with molesting for so long ,the gnostics tell the story of jesus and IT MAKES SENSE! jesus was a mortal man not the son of god or a god himself ,jesus had a wife and a father and mother ,now which makes more sense?that or imaculate conception? it was written by the people who were with jesus,jesus and mary magdelan had a family yes jesus had a child. but if he wasnt a god then maybe people could really be like him? the story in the bible was to convince people that they could never be like jesus and that the only way to even be close was to dedicate your life and money to the church,did you know that there is more wealth in vatican city than anywhere else in the world?if they sold all the art and statues and divied up all the money they have ,world hunger would no longer exist . everything in the bible is geared to make the church the most powerfull force there is ,because its only through pedophle protecting church policy that you can be close to god or ever expect to go to heaven . the curch is the ultimate abuser because for thousands of years they have carried on this lie to keep the power over the people

_________________________
its not hard to fall
when you float like a cannonball - damien rice

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#160613 - 06/08/07 08:58 AM Re: God as a Father figure [Re: shadowkid]
shadowkid Offline
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also jesus was a jew and in those days a male jew was almost comanded to have children it was part of carrying on the faith,if a jewish man had no children he was considerd inferior ,dont you think the bible would have tried to explain why he didnt have children? it just makes so much more sense to me ,that jesus was a real hunam man who had the freewill to be good ,and he was killed to be a martyr for the church ,see if god will sacrifice his own son then asking you to sacrifice your own life for god was turned into a way to get to heaven. if you can find a pre 1950 picture of the last supper ,the person sittiing in the positon of honor at jesuses right is not a disciple at all its a women , its his wife mary and they are joined at the hip ,if you can look closly at it its obvious that there is more to the pic than meets the eye

_________________________
its not hard to fall
when you float like a cannonball - damien rice

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#160617 - 06/08/07 09:08 AM Re: God as a Father figure [Re: shadowkid]
FormerTexan Offline
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"a male jew was almost comanded to have children it was part of carrying on the faith"

Can you show me where this is commanded in the old testament? I would really like to read that, because this would be a first. Such a command does not leave much room for celibacy or other circumstances, such as dying for the sins of the world.

I don't agree that the bible is a forgery. I do agree in that churches have abused the bible and misapplied it. As for the Da Vinci code movie and book, I found it intriguing. However, this movie, however fascinating, replaces the bible with a famous painter's work. The two contradict seem to highly each other and cannot be reconciled.

_________________________
List of things ain't nobody got time for:

1. That


If I could meet myself as a boy...

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#160622 - 06/08/07 09:24 AM Re: God as a Father figure [Re: FormerTexan]
EGL Offline
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You either believe (faith) or you don't. I do. It works for me. But to call what other people base their faith on a forgery is not helpful.

_________________________
Eddie

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#160652 - 06/08/07 11:37 AM Re: God as a Father figure [Re: EGL]
FormerTexan Offline
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I should also clarify, Adam.

"Pseudopigrapha are the books that are old forgeries, or the gnostic books."

This can read like I was calling the gnostic book forgeries. What I mean is that the gnostic books are also pseudopigrapha.

_________________________
List of things ain't nobody got time for:

1. That


If I could meet myself as a boy...

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#160672 - 06/08/07 01:13 PM Re: God as a Father figure [Re: FormerTexan]
shadowkid Offline
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i knew i shoulda just stayed outa this one,sorry if i offended anyone.

_________________________
its not hard to fall
when you float like a cannonball - damien rice

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#160712 - 06/08/07 04:21 PM Re: God as a Father figure [Re: shadowkid]
Chain Breaker Offline
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Shadow,

Speaking only for myself, I have not been offended by anything you've written on here, and I hope I have not offended you. I know you're searching for the truth.

I personally find the Gnostic Gospels fascinating, and I don't think traditional Christians should be afraid of them. They date from about the same time as the canonized gospels and are part of a mystical Christian movement. When I say "mystical," I'm referring to a movement that believes in and subscribes to the notion of personal spiritual connection with the divine, together with secret knowledge that is only given to a privileged few. That knowledge is, again, given through both writings and visions. All religions have their mystical elements. Gnosticism was the first to arise within Christianity. An important thing to remember with regard to mysticisms is that the mainstream believers and the leaders tend to regard them as deviating from the already existing revealed word and traditions. This often can lead to persecution. This was the case with the Gnostics. They were badly mistreated by the leaders of the church. Being persecuted, however, does not mean someone is right. The Gnostic Gospels are all pseudepigrapha by any scholarly definition that I've seen. I believe, though, that there is much of merit in their teachings.

I see we have hijacked this thread , so I'll continue my comments by PM to Shadow and FT.

_________________________
My name is Joe. I am a survivor and a good man. You can count on me.

CB

"[Insert your name here], I am [Chain Breaker]. Do you see that I am your friend? Can you see that you will always be my friend?"
--Wind In His Hair, Dances With Wolves

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#160857 - 06/09/07 12:30 PM Re: God as a Father figure [Re: Chain Breaker]
roadrunner Offline
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Speaking as a professional historian I'd like to say that the whole Da Vinci Code thing is nonsense from beginning to end. Dan Brown's book is a novel, let's recall. It would take many volumes and years and years of pointless work to disprove it, and most historians just chuckle and get on with their work. By comparison, it makes better sense to argue that the pyramids were built by aliens.

On the Gospels, there were a lot of stories about the life and mission of Jesus in circulation in the years after his death. Some of these were used by the compilers of the Gospel texts we have in the NT, and others made their way into other accounts. None of these accounts aim to write the biography of Jesus as such. They were all what we call kerygmatic, meaning that their purpose was to argue the truth of Christianity and show how the life of Jesus reflects a divine plan for the world.

That doesn't mean the texts are false. It just means that all of them tell the story from a committed Christian perspective, and that's of course why they ended up as books of the NT. Other books were also in circulation, but for whatever reasons (most of these reasons are not clear to us now) these were not included in the canon of the NT.

None of these books are "forged" in the sense of being deliberate and deceitful frauds. Forgery and falsification have nothing to do with the issue from a historical perspective - all have something to contribute. They differ in perspective, being written from Jewish, gentile, philosophical or mystical perspectives or for the benefit of people who thought along those lines. When we read these texts we get some sense of the richness of religious thought in emerging Christian circles.

If we find the 4 Gospels more convincing than other stories we may have read, that's just because we have been brought up with these 4 accounts. That's what we are familiar with and these are the books that subsequent Christian theology stands on.

But at the end of the day, as Eddie suggests, what we make of these books is a matter of faith. Switching to my personal view now, it seems to me that religion in which there's no element of faith - i.e. in which we demand proof for everything - really isn't religion, it's more like philosophy. Belief in God in any real sense calls on us to trust in the truth of things that lie beyond our understanding.

Religion is often dismissed these days as the refuge of the weak, but that's nonsense too, in my book at least. To be a genuinely religious person takes commitment, courage and a willingness to learn and change.

Sorry for the further diversion of the thread!

Much love,
Larry


_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

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#160883 - 06/09/07 05:48 PM Re: God as a Father figure [Re: roadrunner]
shadowkid Offline
WARNING from ModTeam, September 2013: user "Shadowkid" was exposed as a hoaxer. His entire online persona and stories of sexual abuse were fiction. We encourage you not to become emotionally concerned by anything you see in any of his posts. Thank you
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/18/05
Posts: 2437
and one faith is the only way,everybody thinks their god is the real one right? what if i choose to put my faith in the very ones that hurt me? what if after all the shit i can still dream that men can be like jesus? that man has the power to be god ? we have the power to protect the children,we have the power to stop hunger and abuse,but maybe we will never know cause we just leave it up to god, which faith is stronger ,faith in something you cant see ,or faith in people ,faith that people can help me just like people hurt me? we have the power to do all the things god wont do .

_________________________
its not hard to fall
when you float like a cannonball - damien rice

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#160911 - 06/09/07 08:37 PM Re: God as a Father figure [Re: shadowkid]
Still Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/16/07
Posts: 6401
Loc: 2.5 NATO Nations
I know (through faith) that the street evangelist on Cape Cod was sent by God to do his work...to pull me out of hell.

I know (through faith) that God led Lorie and I together.

I know (through faith) that I was led to MS and all of you to be saved from this hell a second time.

I still dont know why he allowed Robbie to be raped. I just dont know...but I have faith he is with me.

_________________________
Wishing You Were Here!

The Aftermath Video

The Water Buffalo Song

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#160982 - 06/10/07 12:32 PM Re: God as a Father figure [Re: grover]
WesQ Offline
Guest

Registered: 06/10/07
Posts: 31
Loc: Norcross, Georgia, USA
Grover

You know what, G_d can be Mother or Father G_d or the Great Creator. G_d doesn't have to be a certain gender. G_d is who you want G_d to be.

With hugs
Wes

_________________________
" You gotta make your own kind of music
Sing your own special song
Make your own kind music
Even if nobody else sings along"

From "Make Your Own Kind of Music" by Mama Cass Elliott of the Mamas and Papas

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#160985 - 06/10/07 02:28 PM Re: God as a Father figure [Re: WesQ]
pietie Offline
Guest

Registered: 01/23/07
Posts: 326
Loc: South Africa
Hey

I said I will not partake in this thread any more but there is something I want to clarify from my perspective.

If we look for reasons to justify God or do the opposite we will find it. Adam, something I want to clarify, the thread was about God as a father figure. You refer to the church and what they want from us including the Vatikan City. I refer to God the father and no church. I have a relationship with Him, not thechurch. He is my provider and my healer, not the church. I go to church because I want to and I get support there from others that believe the same as I do. I choose not to live under the law of do this and leave that. I live under the Grace of God. Grace that says :" you are OK even if you makemistakes sometimes." or "I love you despite your mistakes."

Nobody has the power to become a god. I strive in my life to be like Him. If I go to heaven that is a bonus for my faith. I do what I do because I believe His Word. Every Word of it!!

You would have noticed I had not been very active on the site lately, except in the spirituality section mainly. I started focussing all my energy on my faith. I dont tell my God about the size of my problem any longer, I now tell my problem the size of my God. And you know what? It has been 4 weeks since the last time I have been depressed!! 4 Weeks since the last time I even considered suicide. So where is God as a father figure to me right now? Right next to me and around me. He is the one making me feel like I am walking on clouds. He is the one who I give all the glory too, who saved me from self destruction and the road I travelled.

_________________________
Not Perfect, just forgiven

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#160988 - 06/10/07 03:03 PM Re: God as a Father figure [Re: pietie]
shadowkid Offline
WARNING from ModTeam, September 2013: user "Shadowkid" was exposed as a hoaxer. His entire online persona and stories of sexual abuse were fiction. We encourage you not to become emotionally concerned by anything you see in any of his posts. Thank you
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/18/05
Posts: 2437
well damn dude thats all i been asking for! finally somebody told me what god is doing for them !finally! thats the coolest thing and im reaL HAPPY FOR YOU ! finally somebody gave me a straight answer! now that i can believe in ! maybe god does not work for me ,but if it does for you then maybe its all about faith ,period ,if you believe it in your heart then for you it is real and it works. im so glad you found something that works ,thats the big thing right? but if i cant feel that its not a personal attack on everybody that does. i'll never understand if i dont ask questions.

_________________________
its not hard to fall
when you float like a cannonball - damien rice

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#161007 - 06/10/07 05:13 PM Re: God as a Father figure [Re: shadowkid]
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
Shadow,

You are a lot more spiritual than you care to admit. Want to know how I know? You're doing all the stuff I have done for years. Don't be afraid to ask your questions, sure, but at the same time don't hesitate to accept the answers that attract your attention. Truth and understanding can never harm us, they can only help us.

Much love,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

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#161037 - 06/10/07 08:16 PM Re: God as a Father figure [Re: roadrunner]
Chain Breaker Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/21/07
Posts: 376
Loc: Michigan
Shadow,

I also don't believe you've made any personal attacks on anyone on this thread. Your questions have all been sincere, and I'm glad you're thinking about this. I guess I've been trying to answer you too much with theology and less with personal experience. I'm sorry I didn't get what you were seeking for so long.

I'll share some of my personal reflections on God another time. Thanks for clarifying what you wanted for those of us who were too thick to get it the first until then.

I like you, dude, and I just want you to be happy. God makes me happy, so that's why I talk about Him.

Keep asking questions, even if they seem impertinent.

Joe

_________________________
My name is Joe. I am a survivor and a good man. You can count on me.

CB

"[Insert your name here], I am [Chain Breaker]. Do you see that I am your friend? Can you see that you will always be my friend?"
--Wind In His Hair, Dances With Wolves

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#161054 - 06/10/07 10:17 PM Re: God as a Father figure [Re: Chain Breaker]
Mark Antony Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 01/03/07
Posts: 34
Loc: Michigan
Hi guys I have not been on this sight lately. So some of my comments will go back to comments made earlier in the thread. To start with GOD as Father figure. If you understand covenent in the context of the Jewish culture at the time the bible was written especially Genisis. It is clear that covenants form family bonds. So when GOD makes any covenant with mand it establishes a family bond. There for GOD is Father. When you look at the Idea of Jesus being GOD and Man he is both our spiritual brother and Father. In the context of family relationships if Jesus is our spiritual brother then God his Father is our Spiritual Father and Mary his mother is our Spiritual Mother. So we have a whole spiritual family there. God himsself is family that is demonstrated by the Trinity God The Father God the Son and God the Holy Spirit. The love of God the Father for the Son being reflected back from the Son forming the Holy Spirit. Like when a Man leaves his mother and father and joins with his wife. The two become one so much the one needs a name in 9 months. The two become three that is a family. Like the Trinity.


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#161056 - 06/10/07 10:27 PM Re: God as a Father figure [Re: Mark Antony]
Mark Antony Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 01/03/07
Posts: 34
Loc: Michigan
A male Jew was almost commanded to have children. That is a married male Jew. He was commanded to have children. Some of the Jews actually belive that a male is commanded to have at least 3 Children.

The Jews do not have just the "ten commandments" They begin at the start of Genisis and every time GOD said to do or not do something that is counted as a commandment. For example "Be fruitful and multiply" is taken as a comandment to have children. Some go to the point that they must have three male children to meet the commandment. Having less than three would not be multiplying. One to replace yourself, one to replace your wife, and one to be an increase or multiplacation.


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#444879 - 08/20/13 10:49 PM Re: God as a Father figure [Re: grover]
victor-victim Offline


Registered: 09/27/03
Posts: 3327
Loc: O Kanada
Originally Posted By: grover
I've been struggling with this a lot lately. God is supposed to be the ultimate father figure, yet all I know of a father figure is someone who was judgemental, emotionally abusive/distant, and the main reason I could not tell about the sexual abuse I was receiving at school.

How have any of you reconciled this?


when i was young and freshly abused,
i saw god in pretty much the way you just described.
that was a god i could resent, and at times even despise.
i certainly felt i had the right to criticize.

now, as a 52 year old father of three teens,
my vision of god the dad has evolved into an image more similar to my own version of father figure.
loving unconditionally,
protecting, guiding,
slow to anger,
forgiving,
tolerant,
helping,
giving,
because i want to.

i try to live up to that ideal,
and imagine such a creator.
_________________________
Victor|Victim

War
Love
Poetry

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#468986 - 08/15/14 10:39 PM Re: God as a Father figure [Re: grover]
victor-victim Offline


Registered: 09/27/03
Posts: 3327
Loc: O Kanada
god is my father and i love him.
_________________________
Victor|Victim

War
Love
Poetry

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