No I dont think it was a test of your or our faith. Bad things happen in life and as I posted earlier there is a bad and an evil struggle.

There is something I want you to think about. The bible teaches that He will let all bad things turn to good. I personally believe that I would not have been the peron I am today if it wasn't for the abuse. Yes I am struggling and dealing with a lot more than other people but I truely believ I would not have been so compassionate and caring towards hurting people as I am today. So if I could change the past would I. No I wouldn't because that is part of who I am today. That enables me to help other dealing with the same issues. To know what they are going through.

To come back to the original thread. If one of my beutiful boys CHOOSE to use drugs. What can I do about it? I can try to help and be there for them. But I can not make them to stop if they do not want to. I still love them just as much because they remain my children. I will be there when they have to face the consequences of their actions. Just like that God gave us our free will to CHOOSE, even our perps chose to do this to us. It does not mean God loves us any less or want to be less of a father. He still loves us and waits for us. Its all about people having a free will and having the freedom to CHOOSE.

And yes I do see God as a fther figure to me. Numerous times I could talk to Him like I never did to my earthly father. I know He listens but I also know He loved me so much He gave His Son so I could be Free.

T ,
I 100% agree with you on that.

Love always,

Trav

That's the other major struggle I've had. Everytime I've heard a minister teach on that>

im with you grover, still waiting for the bad to change to good ok he gave his son that dont mean he can sacrifice me. wasnt one enough?

Hey guys

This is starting to feel like more of a debate. I am sharing my own experience and it doe not mean you have to agree.

Grover, I know all those emotions of depression, isolation and self doubt. I can add suicide to that as well. I still believe because He loved me He did not allow me to be succesful in any of my attempts to end it all. And I want to come back to what I said earlier. God is not the only one involved in the fight. There is satan too. Why do we so easily blame God for what happened and forget about satan?

Adam, how many people in here have you helped? You have been such an inspiration to me although we have not really talked. Don't you think the things you share and the road you have travelled has made such a difference to many of us? So ther is some bad that changed to good in there.

So this will be my last post to this thread as I believe our focus should be on healing and not in disagreement.

thanks pietie,you have helped me to ,i thought since grover started the thread i was just responding to him ,please understand that to be honest i want what you have ,i want so much to have faith and im working towards that ,but the only way i see to get there is by questioning everything i can to try to understand what happened and what god did or did not have to do with it.thanks for trying to help me understand . adam

Adam,

Questioning is a great way to understand. How does one learn if they do not ask?

Just curious, have you ever read Job, and if so how did it strike you?

Adam,

There's another book I think you would really like, the play J.B. by Archibald MacLeish. It's a retelling of the story of Job, and in it the wealthy businessman J.B. is destroyed much as Job was, but in this case the three friends who come to talk to him represent Science, Philosophy and Religion. Very thought-provoking - MacLeish won the Pulitzer three times, one of them for this play.

Much love,
Larry

thanks guys ,i have not read either of those ,have you ever heard of the gnostic gospells? the part of the bible that the church left out? its a totaly different much more beleivable explanation of lots of these things but i dont wanna hijack the thread . adam

The Gnostic Gospels were left out of the canon for good reason. Gnosticism was considered a heresy as soon as the church learned about it. It was a mystical movement within Christianity, and it rewrote the>