Shadow,



First of all, it's always a great pleasure to discuss things with you. I know you are struggling and trying to understand. You should know that I am in more or less the same place. I do consider myself a spiritual guy, but when it comes to relating to God myself, well, there is just nothing there, just as David puts it.

But on to your question about the quotation. No, it doesn't mean that as an 11-year-old you chose to move away from God. You were a traumatized and brutalized child, Shadow, and if anyone knows that God does. How could he possibly blame you?

The same goes for your questions and anger as a young adult. If God can't handle questions and anger from guys like you, then what the hell CAN he handle? Part of the reason we feel a need for God in our lives is precisely the fact of his boundless patience and mercy. We are allowed to be imperfect, Shadow; that doesn't shut us off from God. Rage and doubt all you want; God can hang around and wait for you to figure things out, and in the meantime I really do believe he will help you by sending you people to stand by you. Actually, he has sent you quite a few already.

I think this is relevant to the topic of the thread too. As a father myself I know there have been many times I have wanted to rush in to "save the day" for my son. But sometimes I can see that I can't do that. I can let him know what I think and advise him of the path I think he should follow, but if he is to develop into a full and complete man he has to learn to make his own decisions and then deal with the consequences. At some point I have to stand back and let him do his thing, knowing that in a few hours I will be helping him pick up the pieces.

The comparison between a human father and God the father of course breaks down pretty fast when we ask about things like CSA. Wouldn't I protect my son from that if I could? You bet I would!!!

The difficulty is that God the divine father, as opposed to imperfect-little-old-me the human father, has boundless power and knowledge. If he intervened to prevent every catastrophe that was within his power to stop, well, then there would be no more floods, air crashes, famines, fires, AIDS, crime, war, CSA, or anything bad at all. But what would the relationship be between us and God? We would be puppets on strings dancing to the tune of the Great Puppetmaster. If we complained, he would just say, "I am trying to save you."

But it's here that we can reconnect to the idea of a father. Every father wants his son to be free and independent one day. But with that freedom comes responsibility. There just isn't any way around that fact, whether we are talking about God as a father or ourselves as fathers.

Much love,
Larry

Hi, first post on these forums. Dont like talking about my past out of shame/regret but i guess i shouldnt hold these things back anymore.

As for my spirituality, god is the only one i can trust in this world(sadly). My past experiences scared my entire life. Depression, anxiety, lonlieness, hopelessness, being scared to get too close to anyone are just a few of what ive had the past 15 years now (im 20).

Luckily directly after those years i seeked god(yes even at the ripe age of 6) in my sin and shame he was the only one i trusted. I had no hope and would struggle with sexual addiction through my teen and preteen years. It got to the point where i stole my mothers credit card and spent 1k$(which eventually was resolved) to look at porn on the web.

I can only look to god for guidance and forgivness and some hope for a brighter future. I keep a good attitude but i feel soo unconfident(even at the age of 20) that its hard to speak without lowering my voice/looking away from who i talk too, etc.

Hi Nich,

Welcome to our home on the web. Glad you found us, tho sorry for the reason you are here. As you've probably seen, there is some controversy around the topic you posted your first post to, but I honor and thank you for having the courage to speak up about your thoughts on this subject. Keep talking, Friend. I think you'll find a lot of support here among a bunch of really great guys.

Lots of love,

John

I think God definitely works through all of us. He is ALL, including US, including the times when we felt distant from ourselves, each of our brothers and Him. Love you all


Your Brother,

nich,

i'm with you entirely on your laast comment here. i'm 35 and know exactly where you're at.

peace,

T

To me, the problem is in your definition of God. I do not believe Him to be all-powerful. He does not have unlimited power over beings with free will. This makes his power finite. Many people will disagree with me on this, but I just don't believe that part of the definition. Second, I do not believe God to be all-loving. I believe that He abhors evil. He may love all his children, true enough, but he does not love all their actions.

I also believe that, even though God has great power, He does not always choose to use it. I do not believe that He influences elections or sporting events, for example. I also believe that, for the most part, He does not normally interfere in the operations of the natural world. And, while He didn't plan them, He allows natural disasters to take place and to test how we respond. They are a great growth and testing device for us. I am always amazed at the outpouring of good will that takes place after natural disasters. Compassion is a gift of God. His intervention generally is not on the prevention side -- it is on the response side.

If you do not believe in God, you are likely to respond to bad events by asking why they happen. If you do, then you ask how we, as believers, ought to respond to these events.

test? my abuse was a test of my faith? what kind of god would put a kid through something like that just to prove a point?! i think for me part of the problem is that my idea of religon was formed up till the time the abuse started at 11 ,an 11 year old sees god way different than an adult,god was supposed to protect me ,god saw everything and if i was good then god would protect me pure and simple. no one and i mean no one has more faith in something they cant see or feel than an 11 year old ,god let me down,or whoever taught me about god lied,thats what pisses me off it was all a huge fucking lie to make me be good ,i lived in fear of what god would do if i was bad,till the abuse then i learned the truth.

maybe i was testing god ,and boy did he fail

I try to draw understanding from the Book of Job on such matters. I doubt that this book is there to minimize our personal sufferings in life (ie I did not have it as bad as Job). Rather, it shows us origin of suffering and how it can be viewed and dealt with.

Adam,



For what it's worth, my answer would be that subjecting a child to abuse can have nothing at all to do with God. Same with the idea of Abraham being called upon to sacrifice his son.

I deal with this by looking at the Bible as a human creation. It's been known for almost 200 years that the books of the Bible put together stories that were circulating in the time of the ancient Israelites. Those stories inspired them in varous ways and for various reasons, and they can still be meaningful to us today. But we don't need to elevate them to the divine word of God himself and matters of historical truth in order to take them seriously.

If there is a God at all, then we have our intelligence from him. It doesn't ring true for me that God would give us that intelligence and then ask us to believe things that make no sense (for example, prophets who live for hundreds of years).

But perhaps this is getting off-topic. Sorry.

Much love,
Larry