so i have been hanging around here for a while now and i have noticed a lot of things about the people here. and somethings i can understand and some things i cant really wrap my head around. one of those things is sex. a lot of you guys refrain from having sex. some of you repress the homosexual urges, some of you refrain from hetro stuff as well. what i dont understand is why? dont you realize that if you supress something it only makes you want it more? so you are setting yourself up failure in a cycle you can't break. and then you "act out" as you all call it, and have sex and then feel like shit out about. sex is normal and natural. its at the core of our instincts. you can't just "stop" because you want to. nature kicks in. we were made to mate. thats really like our only purpose. to eat. and to mate. so i get that because of abuse things got a little fucked up. but you all have to realize that no matter how much you dont wnat to do it, your body and brain are programed to do it. and you cant do anything about it. you can repress all you want but you will just explode at one point or another. thats my two cents.

Jarrad,

It really depends on the issues people are dealing with. For some people sex has been associated with some awfully painful experiences, and is safer to avoid than partake. Some people might refer to it as sexual anorexia. I know in my case, I can't yet feel safe approaching a woman on sexual terms since I still have some level of disgust towards that thanks to things I had to see as a child.

It's gonna be different for everyone, and that in my mind has to be acceptable in this environment especially, whether it's clear or not what the issue is. If you are curious and would like more information about how I tick in regards to this, I'll be happy to share more with you. Everyone here has to have some level of faith and acceptance that viewpoints on sex are going to be very different from each other for a reason.


I edited this a little because I felt I was pressing you too hard on this. I apologize for that.

yeah i get that sex brings back abuse issues. but im not talking about people who dont want to have sex. thats fine. i get that. some people arent ready for it or dont want it. but im talking about the people who want it. have desires for it, and dont act on because they think sex is wrong and dirty or whatever. thats where the problem is. thats when they are represssing. or are you saying that you, for example, you want to have sex but when you do, it brings up abuse issues when you do, so you avoid it. i can get that. but wouldnt it get easier the more you do it? so by avoiding you are doing a diservice to your mental health over all?

Hey, Jarrad --

I can only speak for myself here.

I'm single, gay, living by NYC--sex is pretty much available. I have a few ongoing relationships. I also believe in sexual liberation as a matter of principle, and I've fought long and hard throughout my life to enjoy my sexuality.

Sometimes, I have sex because I'm feeling good, and I just want to have a great experience with someone. But I'm also realizing that sometimes, I do it on autopilot--the real reason is that there's something I don't want to feel and sex will distract me. Or I'm not feeling good about myself, and I need the attention and affirmation for a temporary fix. That's when I'm "acting out."

I'm not trying to stop having sex, but I am trying to do it only when it's what I actually want and need. I'm learning not to use it...

• to block me from feeling the things I need to feel (lonely, depressed, abuse memories, worried)
• to lose people I actually want to get close to in the crowd
• to convince me I'm attractive
• or just to fill up an empty evening.

Hope that makes some sense,

David

I have abstained for a long time now, 16 years. It's not that I don't want to, but why do something that literally causes you pain. I'm all for sex, but not sex as I see it now. One of my goals for my healing is to be able to be intimate. Not the guilt ridden, anxiety filled activity that it is now. In fact I think it would do more damage to my healing if I partook now because it would just reinforce those feelings that go with it with me. Masterbation relieves the pressure now, it's still filled with those same feelings but nothing compared to how intense those feelings hit me if I was being judged about them by another person, realisticly or not. Judgement is a trigger for me. 16 years and no explosion

One day, and when I'm healed it will be great.

Stay strong
Mike

memory, yeah that makes sense. i know i have sex for the wrong reasons but i dont think of it as "acting out." acting out to me is something a person does in response to the abuse. i think people who have not been abused can have sex for the wrong reasons too. im a big homo too and i have talked about sex with my other gay friends (those of whom, to my knowledge, have not been abused) and they too have had sex to feel better about themselves. or to have a connection with another person. maybe its a gay thing not an abuse thing. this is kinda of getting off the topic but i feel that the only diffrence between gay and straight people is how we have sex. so i think that within the gay community, there is so much emphasis on it that if we arent having it, we almsot are "less gay." not that im speaking from experience because we all know im a slut, but i think for the gay community being slutty is normal. and you have to wonder about those who aren't.

mogigo, im so glad you havn't exploded yet. okay so you havnt had sex because it causes you pain. i understand that. how do you get over that pain tho? i would think it would be have more sex and eventually you will not associate sex with abuse but sex with the connection of other people. if you dont face that issue then you would never get over it right? im not syaing you arent facing it, but it seems to me you closed that door so tight that even the possibibly of you ever having a "normal" assocation with sex impossible. im not trying to be mean. im just trying to understand. maybe i dont get it because sex doeesnt cause me pain...

I viewed all sex as evil from age 14ish to 30. So i had NONE!

There was no getting around that view. So I avoided that perceived evil. I was quite easly to do in some ways.

sex isnt evil tho. abuse is evil.

I think of sex as an intense connection between people. It amplifies what's already there:

Loving sex is VERY loving
Abusive sex is VERY abusive
Manipulative sex is VERY manipulative
Indifferent sex...and so on.

The connection between abuse and sex for me is a need to feel like I'm in control--I'm much more comfortable if I'm the one who takes the initiative. I'm also only half "there"--often I don't remember too many details afterwards. But in a way, it seems better that I was attacked, rather than seduced, and that I was young enough that my own sexuality didn't get too tangled up in the pain and the memories. I ended up more afraid of violence than sex. I did grow up afraid of men (including the one I was turning into) and it took me a long time to work through that.

Jarrad,

I think a lot of how guys feel will depend on what image of sex abuse left them with. In my case, abuse left me with the idea that sex was something that adults do to harm kids. That had to have an enormous impact on me in later years, though yes, I was sexually active. But all of that activity was dysfunctional in some way or another, and it wasn't until I met my wife that I discovered it could be so very different.

Much love,
Larry

Jarrad. I understand your point, but Eistien said:

"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results"

Those here who have an aversion to sex, or negative feelings about sex will probably have to discover where specifically those feelings originate.. are the guilt, shame, body image, etc. If they keep having sex without changing their attitude, feelings, triggers, or whatever, they probably will not get used to it and may even be making the problem worse...

Just some thoughts...

Dan

I actually really appreciate this thread. It is a subject that I have a lot of problems with. I have a lot of difficulties with intimacy. I tend to be good friend. It seems very hard for people to understand but I feel a great amount of fear, shame and guilt in regards to sexual intimacy.

The people who molested me told me that I would "never be a man." My mother would tell me that I would "ruin a woman's life." I've had very little sexual experience and the experience that I have had has not necessarily been positive. I have been very repressed sexual because I am scared to death that I will harm someone mental, physcially or emotionally (fear). I tend to feel bad if I see a woman and think that she is attractive. This of course is a natural, instinctive thing- for a hetrosexual person to thing the opposite sex is attractive- but that doesn't I mean I don't feel guilt. I feel especially bad if the attractive person is a friend. So I constantly look for ways to "rule them out." I work with them, they're involved, there is an age difference, etc. Of course, "ruling them out" often reinforces the idea that I am less than desirable. On the extremely, rare occasions that something does happen. My mind usually ends up on overload until I breakdown in tears. Thinking that they do or will hate me and that I have commited some aggregous sin against God and man.

So it's not necessarily that I am avoiding sex now. It's that I always have. I would actually like to find someone that I could be close with but I honestly doubt that someone would find me worth the effort. There is quite frankly too much to overcome and far too many "normal", successful, worthwhile men out there.

I am glad that you don't struggle with this issue. In a lot of ways, the lack of physical intimacy is the most dehumanizing part for me.

I'm sorry my response went a little long. This is a great part of my struggle.

David...
I think youhit thenail on the head..."WHY am I having this sex?"
I spent so many years in 'acting out' sex...
I have just recently understood what was going on...

Buzz

Hi Jarrad, hope you don't mind, I am pasting a post that I gave to the ladies.
I am currently reading Sexual Anorexia by Patrick Carnes, Ph.D on page 72 figure 3.2 Core Beliefs for Three Obsessional States of mind. Draw three interlocking circles.
Core Beliefs, Common to the three states!
1. I am basically a bad unworthy person.
2. No one could love me as I am.
3. My needs are never going to be met if I have to depend on others.

Sexual Anorexics:
Sex is my most terrifying need.

Sex Addicts
Sex is my most important need.

Co-Addicts, (or codependent, (I added this word))
Sex is the most important sign of love.

Very few people are all of one type or another, there are many variations and combinations of the three types. Also couples can interact with each other. Couples can switch roles also, sometime one can be the addict, or the co-addict. Also there can be interactions with other types of addictions, deprivations.

Other types of abuse could cause this it does not have to be sexual abuse/rape that causes this.

Obviously the best way to handle this is with a therapist There are also 12 step programs for these addiction/co-addictions.
(SLAA) Sex and Love Addicts Anonymous meetings
(RCA) Recovering Couples Anonymous

After the navy, I am not ready to trust a therapist, and I am not ready to go for a 12 step program at this time. So I am just reading.

Take care,
Clifford

i dont do sex with other people.....i get rid of the urge myself.....so i can get on with my life.....its really something i can do without.....yet i need to keep the urge tamed......as far as getting close to other people for sex or what ever ...........it isant worth it.............steve

Hey Jarrad, I think I need to tell you I have only been trying to heal for about nine months now. The sex will be good when I love myself enough to realize that I am worthy of it being loving rather than abusive. This won't come from having sex this will come from learning to trust myself and trust others. I probably will have a tough time the first time I have sex and probably many more times after, but unless I can believe that I deserve it to be loving, then the healing won't happen at all. I think your right to some extent, I will need to experience it before I can work on it, but I'm not going to work on that until the psycological work surrounding it is accomplished first.

Thanks for being happy I didn't explode, I was only kidding around Brother.

Mike

Sex is something that everyone deals with differently after the experiences we've all had.

Personally I have to learn to trust someone before anything can happen, unfortunately the last time I trusted someone it all went bad, so now I find it hard to even talk to a woman if there is even a possibility that something may come of it.

Which means I don't have sex, but it's more a result of not being in contact with women than a particular decision about sex itself.

I'm sure if I ever get to trust someone again I could eventually learn to trust her enough to want to be that intimate, but there's nothing on the horizon right now and I don't foresee any change in that.

Like I said, everyone deals with the sex problem differently, I don't think you should expect people to stand up for their "rights" because some (me included) don't feel we have a natural right to anything.

To me it's just all about trust - I don't really have any left!

James Fowler made out like he was my best friend ever / replacement grandparent / replacement uncle / that I would be a man sooner than anyone else because of what he was teaching me - he lied on every point.

Got a girlfriend when I was 14 - she was 16. She finished it because she thought everyone would laugh at her for going out with a kid like me. I'd been groomed / abused 2 years earlier, so not only was it OK to be used, it was also amusing to others if I went out with an older female!

Next real girlfriend was a dental nurse on low pay. I paid for everything & thought we were very compatible. She got a better job and deeper pockets to go with the better pay. She was just using me - yet again it had taken me so long to realise I was being used. I was so stupid that I even went back there after going out with the next one - it was no different!

Next girlfriend was a registered nurse (notice how I kept picking the caring professions). She caused a row one night over no reason & I ditched her. She hated her brother's best friend. He'd just come back from working in a tax free environment and bought a newsagents outright - guess who she married not long after - I've seen her recently and she looks as miserable as sin! Tough! She was the love of my life, so I thought!

Next girlfriend was allegedly a really nice person. She had been engaged twice. One night I was not due to meet her and a friend rang and asked if I wanted to go to the local pub for a couple of pints. It was split into two main parts. We went into the bar, and as we were getting served, I looked through into the lounge. She was in there with her x boyfriend, tongue down his throat (he had 2 very young children at the time).

I wish I was more of a bastard, then I could just go and have sex with people for the hell of it! I've been hurt so much, that I can't do that to other people. That's why I fly solo!

Best wishes ...Rik

Sex is OK, I guess. BTDT, and all - it's just not really that crucial to me. Once or twice every couple of years is more than I need to tide me over. On the ultra-rare occasion that I'm "getting some", I spend so much energy secretly pretending that I'm not really having sex, that I often wonder, "Why bother?"

I was going to post a response, but I realize that my feelings and tendencies were summed up perfectly by deck.

An overriding goal of my life is to not hurt people and to protect my friends. Because of my abuse, my stupid fucking brain views sex as abusive, so it's very hard for me to initiate anything even close to a relationship because I feel like my motivations (an intimate relationship) are bad and selfish.

HAVING sex and being able to heal our self, or reconnect with our spirit for that matter, are very different issues, rather mutually exclusive, so let's not confuse the two.

Having a healthy sexuality, is far more important issue than having an active sex life. One might having active sex life and still might not healed issues regarding abuse, and sex.

As survivors, we have to learn to take life at our own pace, and having sex when we are ready for it or feel like it, is perfectly fine, so no pressure there.

Morning Star

It shouldn't be this complicated but it is even for people who haven't been abused I think. I've always associated sex with violence and bad feelings of punishment. Can I have normal sex without those feelings getting in the way? No.. I just go through the motions and really don't feel much. The only time I really feel alive and connected during sex is when there is some kind of emotional or physical pain involved.

Thanks,
Jess

Jess,

You may still be able to learn to have sex not be painful. I think getting there is just another part of the healing process.

Joe

thanks for the imput guys. i apprecate the insite

Jarrad,

Thanks for a sincere and important observation and question. I enjoyed the whole thread.

It was a great thread!!!

I learned a LOT

Hi Jarrad, I gave you the book answer.
Sexual Anorexics:
Sex is my most terrifying need.
But what does that mean to me personally. Everyone responds differently to what happened to them. What happen to me was rape at knife point, and I was 11 at the time. One of the promises I made to myself was that I would never do that to anyone, and if I did I would kill myself. When I became sexual, it was like I just went nuts. I started when my mom pulled me onto her lap, and I got a hard-on. Also my sex drive don't seem to work like all the guys in the movies I saw growing up (1960-1970) they showed the guy dating girls but not really being interested in them until the one girl comes alone. My sex drive don't work like that, its like for me all the girls that I was attracted to were on (a scale from 1 to ten), they were all 15's. Also it wasn't one girl at a time, it was all of them simotaniously. I didn't even know their name and I wanted to reach out and start touching them. About the only girls I weren't attracted to were the overweight girls. My sex drive was so strong that I was afraid that if I stayed around the girls I would lose control. Also, to me anyway it seemed that all the girls were not attracted to me at all, if they were they hide it very well. So I stayed away from them. All through junior and high school, I kept my nose in a science fiction book. As far as explosions go, I masturbated a lot, it helped to keep me from getting erections when I was around the girls in school. I didn't want any of the girls to see that I had a erection, when I didn't even know their name, let alone if I liked their personality. Another thing is that I am very afraid that I may do something wrong sexually and the girl will leap up and start shouting and screaming that I am a pervert, or worst a rapist! It is my biggest fear that I will lose control of me and become my worst enemy.

There was a early-er incident when I was 5 years old. This girl who was my best new friend, gave me a dare. If I would kiss her thing then she would kiss mine. I said ok, she bared it and I gave it a little peck. Then it was her turn to kiss me, but she said no she wouldn't kiss it because I had not kissed her right. The next day when I came out to play with my friend she wasn't there. See we owned a few resort cabins, we were temporary staying in one. The girl's family was on vacation and had rented their cabin for the whole vacation. When I asked my mother where my friend was she said they got a emergency phone call and had to cancel the rest of their vacation and leave that night. I think the sudden lose of a friend like that, may have drove home the point that if I do sexual things, I could lose my friends. Anyway I never did try to do sexual things when I was growing up, even though I was interested in doing them. That's about all I have figured out so far. No answers yet on how to fix it.

Take care,
Clifford

Sex terrifies me...I feel like I am performing. I want to feel what its suppossed to be like.

okay so if the majority of you have issues with sex, what steps are you taking to overcome it? or are you just letting it be the way it is? like, are you doing the whole therapy thing? or just standing by and say "well thats how i am. and i probably wont change." the thing for me is, i have been with a lot of men for sex and regardless, all the men have been vulnerable. sex makes people vulnerable. i dont care who you are or what your past is. so maybe thats why im still not convinced by some of the reasoning that some of you posted because i think that guys who have not been abused woudl feel the same way. i dont know.. i just taking.. or typing.. outloud.

Its not matter of them having the power, its the matter of the gut reaction and builtin reaction to sex in general, cause by being abused. I don't choose to be vulnerable...it F*&kin ingrained in me. Therapy is helping....thats all I can do know.

Honestly I have tried alot fo things like making the other person the vulnerable on but the "performance" aspect of it is deep rooted. I just wanna lose myself in sex!

Jarrad, I have to agree with you on this. I also feel that too many of us get swallowed up in the hard determinism that says, that's just the way I am and the way I'll always be. I believe all of us can change and grow. I also feel that way, however, about sexual orientation, which you probably disagree with. There are many factors that go into who we are. There are some we can have some control over and others we cannot. I think that people just disagree sometimes about which is which. What I sincerely believe, though, is that we can change a great deal about our psyche, including whether we ever feel up to having sex. I also believe we all can heal from previous wounds and be happy. In fact, you have a kind of contagious optimism that I admire. I hope others can learn from your example.

I still feel, though, that it's good to be understanding about where someone is now, emotionally. I understand all the concerns these guys have expressed, and I have, at times, shared some of them. I am perfectly ready to go back to having sex with my wife, but I can't. I have diabetes and high blood pressure, which are causing me some erectile dysfunction, and I'm on medication that causes ejaculatory dysfunction, so I can't really start or finish very well. We have other kinds of sexual intimacy, though. It's just all we can do until I get my body into better shape. I've had good success working on my mind; now it's time for me to start working on my body.

I've got plenty of issues to tackle. My stance on sex, right now, is a very low priority; it is most likely keeping me out of trouble and making my life a little less difficult in my current situation.

As my situation changes, so will my priorities - and perhaps one day I'll decide to change my mind about sex. Right now - other things are more important.

This is just me - I won't endorse this course of action for anyone else.

Hey Jarrad, I've always wanted to get back into having sex, it's not like I ever said, I'm giving up sex forever. Trust me it does a whole lot for my motivation to think that one day I will get to have sex again. I'm with melliferal just not a priority right now. If I look at the things I need to do for myself to heal, that comes in way down the list. Kind of like a to do list, once the priorities right now are taken care of then it will become the priority.

I wanted to say thanks as well for starting this string Jarrad, it has been wonderful to get everyones point's of view, yours too and I do see the optism in your posts, and yes, it is wonderful.

Stay strong everyone
Mike

Jarrad, I've not read how the others have responded but here is why *I* don't have sex, I can't find anyone that *I* find attractive. Now, am I some prize that women are supposed to fall over when they see me? No. But I'm sure as hell not gonna settle for a fat trailer-trash girl just because she's the only one that expresses interest in me. (that's happened more than a few times lol)

I'm 38 and ALL the good women are TAKEN I swear. I mean, if they're not wearing a ring, then they immediately say "boyfriend" when I happen to make small talk with them in the supermarket or library, etc.

I missed the boat.

Bty, I'm going on 12 years without any intimacy at ALL.

I was abused by a basketball coach when I was 12 years old. Since that time I have had many...to many to count sexual encounters. I had hetro and homosexual encounters. I used sex as a way to validate myself. I was trying to find intimacy through sex and I never did find it. Don't get me wrong, I had lots of pleasurable sex and off the wall encounters you name it I did it, I liked most of it but it never gave me a sense of fulfillment. I would shack up with someone for days, doint the unthinkable...male or female or both. I would leave there and go looking for others to hook up with. In my homo sexual encounters, I now know that I was trying to relive and make sense of the abuse that happend to me, and I never could. I have now put sex in its place in my life. I can't speak for others, but for me sex is just a part of my life, it is not my life. My libido left unchecked has me sexualizing everyone I meet immediately and only manipulating them to get them into bed. Everyone thing I used to say was positioning and posturing to enhance my chance of sex. That is not what I am about today. I have so much time for other things today. I will not let the abuse that happend to me continue to control my life. I now put faith in God and use my experience to help others who may in the same situation. Sex is just a part of my life....it is not my life.

Good Luck,

Guy D.

My difficulties with intimacy is one of the things that prompted me to re enter therapy.