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#15587 - 05/07/03 08:32 AM I think I have figured out...
Sick Puppy Offline
Member

Registered: 03/30/03
Posts: 300
Loc: Nowhere Land
...why I do so well here at MS as compared to the other groups I have tried to participate in...

I think it's because there are no women. When I was in a group with women there were always a ton of problems and I blamed them on the women but I think they were mainly my fault. Around women I have to put my guard up higher than normal and I have to be tense and aware and distrustful of anything said to me. Around men, I fear physical (or sexual) harm, and around women I fear emotional harm. On the internet it is much easier to open up to men because you can't be beaten or raped through a computer screen. You can, however, have your mind fucked with and your emotions thrown every which way which women seem to be experts at doing. I don't mean to say that I hate women because there's nothing wrong with them but I just can't trust them and I think I do better in a group that (for the most part) lacks them.

Although the majority of my sexual abuse was by men, I still consider my mother my primary abuser for all the lasting damage she did to my mind. She was an expert at manipulation. I can't trust that every woman out there isn't like her. From my experience, many of them are, especially in survivor groups where you get a lot of damaged people. When I am expected to be open and vulnerable around women, I find myself becoming hostile, untrusting, argumentative, and even sometimes abusive. I wouldn't physically hurt a woman but I find myself trying to fuck with their minds before they fuck with mine. I guess it's a premature defensive mechanism...

_________________________
And one day we will die
And our ashes will fly
From the aeroplane over the sea
But for now we are young
Let us lay in the sun
And count every beautiful thing we can see


Neutral Milk Hotel - In the Aeroplane Over the Sea

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#15588 - 05/07/03 09:33 AM Re: I think I have figured out...
Wuamei Offline
Member

Registered: 08/19/02
Posts: 2700
Loc: The left turn I should have ta...
Quote:
...why I do so well here at MS as compared to the other groups I have tried to participate in...

I think it's because there are no women. When I was in a group with women there were always a ton of problems and I blamed them on the women but I think they were mainly my fault. Around women I have to put my guard up higher than normal and I have to be tense and aware and distrustful of anything said to me. Around men, I fear physical (or sexual) harm, and around women I fear emotional harm. On the internet it is much easier to open up to men because you can't be beaten or raped through a computer screen. You can, however, have your mind fucked with and your emotions thrown every which way which women seem to be experts at doing. I don't mean to say that I hate women because there's nothing wrong with them but I just can't trust them and I think I do better in a group that (for the most part) lacks them.
Josh, this sounds so much like me I could pretty much have written it. I came to MS deliberately looking for a group for male survivors only becuz I needed to deal with survivor issues & felt uncomfortable doing so among women, especially the many female dominated & sometimes anti-male groups out there. Even with groups for things like sex addiction or fibromyalgia I go to groups for men. Mostly I just come here.

Quote:
Although the majority of my sexual abuse was by men, I still consider my mother my primary abuser for all the lasting damage she did to my mind. She was an expert at manipulation.
Tho I had an equal number of female & male perps (4), the majority of my SA was by females most of all my mother, who induced or encouraged virtually
all the SA by others female or male. She was by far my primary emotional abuser.

Quote:
I can't trust that every woman out there isn't like her.
It's taken me a long time and a very loving patient wife to be able to trust any woman and not to hate all women.

Quote:
From my experience, many of them are, especially in survivor groups where you get a lot of damaged people.
This is so what I've found. Some women were nice & supportive of me & the few other male survivors on their boards. Most were merely tolerant, and some were downright hostile.

This reminds me that my mother was abused as a child herself, and how easy it is for people who were abused to become abusive themselves, tho many don't & those who do often do it in different ways than the way they were abused, like maybe verbally instead of sexually or whatever.

My mother had an intense hatred of & sense of vengefulness toward all men that I felt even in the womb, the wrath of which was poured on me thruout my so-called childhood.

Quote:
When I am expected to be open and vulnerable around women, I find myself becoming hostile, untrusting, argumentative, and even sometimes abusive. I wouldn't physically hurt a woman but I find myself trying to fuck with their minds before they fuck with mine. I guess it's a premature defensive mechanism...
I also know how easy it is for me to be very defensive with women (or men), which is why I've guarded my relationships so carefully.

Josh, I'm glad you're here at MS & doing so well!

Victor

_________________________
"I can't stand pain. It hurts me."
--Daffy Duck

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#15589 - 05/07/03 12:24 PM Re: I think I have figured out...
Sick Puppy Offline
Member

Registered: 03/30/03
Posts: 300
Loc: Nowhere Land
I think our stories are maybe similar. My mother was abused too and I was the effigy which she took out her rage against men on. My sister was nowhere near as badly abused and I have a strong suspicion it is because she was female. My mother may have even named me after her primary abuser. (Her father's name was Joshua, but I'm not sure if he was her abuser. I know she didn't particularly love or like him, though, so I don't see why she'd name me Josh otherwise.)

I guess some of the things you said just rang true to me. Sorry that this is a bit off-topic. My mother did incest me and directly introduce me to most of my childhood SA but the majority of the SA was done by males.

_________________________
And one day we will die
And our ashes will fly
From the aeroplane over the sea
But for now we are young
Let us lay in the sun
And count every beautiful thing we can see


Neutral Milk Hotel - In the Aeroplane Over the Sea

Top
#15590 - 05/07/03 03:10 PM Re: I think I have figured out...
Freedom Offline
Member

Registered: 09/21/02
Posts: 164
Loc: US
Josh - Thank you for your insights. It sheds some light on behavior I have been observing and may be, at least in part, an explanation for it. I have to do more thinking on this.

Peace,
Freedom.

_________________________
Life is moving on. AM I?

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#15591 - 05/07/03 03:29 PM Re: I think I have figured out...
Wuamei Offline
Member

Registered: 08/19/02
Posts: 2700
Loc: The left turn I should have ta...
Josh,

I don't think this is off-topic and it's important
stuff to both of us obviously. It's part of why you & I do so well here at MS. It's part of what can help make us well here at MS, as we share our stories & realize we're not alone & support one another. So thanks for sharing this stuff, Josh.

While my mother didn't name me after her father, I do know he did abuse her in some way & have little doubt he incested her. Shoot, he molested my 1st wife when she went over to his place one day to clean his house becuz I was too blind & drunk to do it (but not to see & grab her!).

I'm starting to recall & realize just even today that a lot more abuse by men--my father--occured in my life than I thot; just too early to clearly
remember tho I've really known for a while & my body is certainly remembering it. If you want see:

http://www.malesurvivor.org/cgi-local/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=001894;p=1#000000

My mothers' incesting of my was sexual but also obsessively emotional; she made me her surrogate husband at least starting at age 4 when my father was gone. Thus she was loathe to share me with others, tho early on an aunt also had me for awhile before mother got jealous & ousted her, and a couple babysitters got me too a few times. Later she shared me with men, in her attempt to keep me from ever having another woman by making me gay:

http://www.malesurvivor.org/cgi-local/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=001857

I don't think my brother was abused as much as I was at least after his first couple years becuz my father was gone and he became a surrogate son to my mother & I, the surrogate parents. Plus I think she had guilt about my brother being
"retarded" and knowing the real reason was his being so abused so little when I couldn't protect him damn it! But I damn sure protected him after that!

Josh I'm sorry about all the hell on earth you went thru. Me too. I'm glad we're here to be able to share about it & support one another in this great place!

Victor

_________________________
"I can't stand pain. It hurts me."
--Daffy Duck

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