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#155013 - 05/08/07 11:26 AM You guys were right (tears) ***Trigger Warning***
Logan Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/05/03
Posts: 1205
Loc: NY
Member
MaleSurvivor


Registered: April 05, 2003
Posts: 228
Loc: NYC Aboyt all the thisg that you guys suggestsed, I made a BIG mistake and got hurt-again!

There where these 2 nice guys, a couple, who began to hit on me, I euess 'Youth Is a Big commodity in the homoexual world' and anyway they invited me back to ther place and said "don't worry, it's only accople of blocks a away." A this point no red flags came up some I;efy with the younger of the ywo of them, he was maybe mid to tplate 30's and his BF about 50.

BTW, will I was at the bar I was hit on by sooo many guys-not that I was really attracted to anyone of them but It felt really GOOD to be LIKED by sombody and I think I made some friends in the prosses. But I did not relize at the time that that most gay relationships are about physical atrraction rather than heartfelt atracction.

BTW, GTRAFiC MAY BE A TRIGGER TO SOME
So anyway, back to the older couple, I left the bar having had only one drink, so I was Prettry clear headed. Their Apt. was more than a cople of bocks away, more like 10, anyway one we go itside, I was amazed at how beutiful and posh it was: stained ock walls, peesian tapastries, marble and grainite kitchcken and brase coverings to everything. I thought we where going to talk and sit down a for a while but befor I knew it he was kssinging me and taking my shirt of--and a first I thouhght this is what I wanted, but it was all happening so fast.

His older partner walked in and and saw us both half naked and quickly got undressed and asked me if I would like a drink and used this opertunity to pull away an say the first thing that came to my mouth......ahhhhh um vodka/tonic please, from the counerof my eye I could see him add NO ice and fill the glass about 90% straight vodka with only a splash of vogka (think 4 martini's). So I took a sip and choked on it and mumbled it's a bit strong, he on'y mildly replied. "oh...is it?"

Right then I could begin to feel that somthing was wrong like I had been lured there to be trapped and all they wanted was sex-mayby if one follows one guy home from a bar that is the expectation, by not in my hetero rlationships.

But for some reason I pursued thinking mabe I could revisit the past somehow and in my mind chande the memory.

I tha I ment that no condoms-NO sex and that was final! "Even with oral the older one replyied" and I everything and didn't budge standing ther naked! Werid I was compleatly naked in front of 2 strange men and did not feel emarassed as if I had some sort of power over them- I mean I never used to take showers in high school for feeling to embarassed to and there I was.

So the younger one said quickly we have condoms all over the place and in tens sec's flat was back, the older one put it on and to me to 'suck it' and so I did Not feeling good or bad on particular and then the yonger one began to sum mine but didn't get hard-at all-nada- so then the said it would be better it the bedroom where they had a gaint plasm HDTV and prececed to pay hard core gay sex which was a tunrn off for me but I did not say anything.

So I continued going downon the older on I'll call 'K' for now, an dhte younger onr 'B' forn now on.

So B' ask if he could enter me anallyaal and at first I said no and was very relulctant, but he said he would take it slow and I=he did and it didn't hurt so bad, not like when I was a kid.

But then K, shoved some bottle of liquid under my nostrill and the wold became a daze and he started to talk really dirty to me saying things like: yeah I knen you were a fagboy the moment I laid eyes on you, you love to suck my fat cock, don't you, etc. and that started to make my mind drifit to when I ways I little kid like some of the things my second perp used to say to my while raping me, and then all of a sudden he grabbed my head and pushed down had so that I was choking and feel his thing in the back of my throught and he started shouting 'swallow that cock' 'swallow " "' over and over and BAM was 8 years old again and could not move I just froze up for a few seconds and then I started to squerm and fight and he let got and I shot up and off the bed and said I CAN'T DO THIS! I was shaking and and tears were running down my cheecks.

I dont wanna talk about this anymore!

K asked for my ID and I said that was almost 18 (knowing full well that I was newly 26 but have been told in the past that I don't look a a over 16.

K said he was sorrry but I did not believe him for a second, he is just sadistic and did not want to get in trouble.

B, on the other hand, I think felt trully sorry and gave me his personall number 'just in case I need anything.' He gave me a robe and got or him self and we went out sier on their blacony, perfet view of times square , he handed me a ciggarette and without going into any detail I told him that I was hurt sexually when I was very young, he got my drift and knew what had just taken place I had not enjoyed at all.

When I got back to my apt. I sat in the dark afterter taking 50mg of valium and shuddered and shook and cried all night 'till dawn and then cried mydelf to sleep. my entire pillow was soaked in tears.

that is all I can wright for now. I only wish I had followed all your guys advice and wish I had a friend that did not demand sex in return.


Logan

ps I think that Is all I really want-Friends without hab=ving to sacrifice some thing to have one.

_________________________
Edited to add Trigger Warning



Edited by Dewey2k (05/09/07 12:28 PM)
_________________________
"Terrible thing to live in Fear"-Shawshank Redemption
WOR Alumnus Hope Springs 2009
"Quite a thing to live in fear, this is what is means to be a slave"
-Blade Runner

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#155031 - 05/08/07 01:22 PM Re: You guys were right (tears) [Re: Logan]
pain4ever Offline


Registered: 04/05/01
Posts: 1032
OMG...Logan I am so sorry!!! God, I hate gay guys...I say this even though I am one. I wish there was something I could do. I feel for you simply because shortly after I came out I the same experience only I was drugged. I empathize withe the flashbacks...the samething happenned to me. None of that makes THIS KIND SHIT RIGHT!!! DAMNIT!!! I HATE THIS!!!

I was once where you are, And I still kinda am, it is hard to find gay friends cause they all want to get into your pants!!! ASSHOLES!!! IAM SO SORRY!!!

The liquid in the bottle are called poppers, they are made to "loosen" you up physically and mentally. Its nothing but pure rape. I wish I knew where they were for god sakes they would be sorry for what they did to you!!!

YOU DESERVE NONE OF THIS!!!!

_________________________
Peace and Tranquility all depends on your frame of reference.

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#155087 - 05/08/07 04:37 PM Re: You guys were right (tears) [Re: pain4ever]
FormerTexan Offline
Site Administrator
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 09/12/04
Posts: 11047
Loc: Denver, CO
Logan,

My heart is heavy and sad for you. \:\(

"I think that Is all I really want-Friends without hab=ving to sacrifice some thing to have one."

That's all any of us want - a genuine friend who doesn't plan to reduce us to an object.

_________________________
List of things ain't nobody got time for:

1. That


If I could meet myself as a boy...

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#155090 - 05/08/07 05:02 PM Re: You guys were right (tears) [Re: FormerTexan]
MemoryVault Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/01/07
Posts: 693
Loc: NJ
Logan --

That's awful. I'm so sorry that you went through that. Those guys were selfish and abusive, and what they did to you was obscene. I hope you don't blame yourself at all for what happened. You went out looking for someone to be close to, and you found...some a**holes.

I've been in the New York gay singles scene for a long time--had some wonderful experiences, and a few terrible ones. No, gay guys aren't all like that--most aren't at all. Most guys will know when someone they're with is uncomfortable or unhappy and stop and ask what's wrong. But it is a culture that tends to lead with sex, and see what develops afterwards. Bar conversations are usually about hooking up that night. I've had sexual experiences that turned into relationships or deep permanent friendships, but they didn't start that way. Friendship can be tough in the gay scene because it gets tangled up with attraction, competition, a whole lot of things.

I really hope you find the friendship and understanding you're looking for, and that you don't stop looking because of this nightmare.

David


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#199004 - 01/11/08 08:36 AM Re: You guys were right (tears) [Re: MemoryVault]
Danbuff Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/03/07
Posts: 249
Loc: NY state
Logan,
I can relate to many things you described and it sounds like total confusion, Thankfully you took your power back that was being stolen once again. Under those circumstances you did an amazing thing. I am so sorry there are gay men out there who are sadistic bastards who think only of themselves. The scene you desribed is reinforced by the porn industry.

I am proud of you for taking a stand and stopping the cycle. When we relive the horrors and allow ourselves to be set up I think we are taken off guard because of vulnerability and the distortion this time it will be better or different. In reality it may only be that we seek attention and believe we are liked and possibly loved. It is our distortion and a result of not being loved and respected as boys. At least that is how I see it.

I am glad you got out of it and sorry it happened. Hang in there and keep trying. You don't deserve any of this. No one does.

Peace,
Dan

_________________________
When you stumble, make it part of the dance.

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#199012 - 01/11/08 09:27 AM Re: You guys were right (tears) [Re: Danbuff]
Jarrad Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/27/06
Posts: 1071
Loc: arizona
i realize that this is upsetting for you. reading it though, it wasn't anything abnormal. i dont think it was rape. they stopped when you asked. poppers is normal. picking guys up at a bar is normal. threesomes are normal. im not trying to demote your feelings because obviously they are very strong and you are emotionally raw. but taking this out episode out of "surivivor land" and recounting the events that happened, its just another night in gayopolis. if you are trying to find non sexual friends, maybe try other places other than bars. bars=sex.


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#199061 - 01/11/08 04:38 PM Re: You guys were right (tears) [Re: Jarrad]
Danbuff Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/03/07
Posts: 249
Loc: NY state
Well Jarrad,
I happen to believe and actually know there are many gay people who are extremes behaviorally and to "minimize" this by reducing it to just another night in gayopolis justifies the situation in a number of ways. It justifies using and taking advantage of others by feeding them booze and poppers and possibly booze with extasy mixed in for all we know. The fact is it is abusive and disrespectful.

When I say there are extremes of gay behaviors, I mean there are those who are out for as much sex as they can get and actually there are those who have other reasons for going to a bar. Maybe you have one reason but there are a lot more gay people who try using more than their sexual drive. I for one am trying to change.

To my mind, these guys that Logan described are not far from chicken hawks (guys that prey on youthful types). Logan describes himself as passable for 16-18 in spite of being 26.

After reading this response and your recent post where you witnessed a murder and then went to bed to safely and wisely protect yourself almost makes me think you are still numb and not in touch with how affected others can be. You said you had sex with the guy and went numb. I say this with all due respect Jarrad but frankly, I disagree with that statement that recounting the events that happened, it's just another night in gayopolis.
It certainly shows no connection to Logans pain. I think it is counterproductive. If you realize this is upsetting, where is the aknowledgement of Logan in that message?


Getting kids or percieved kids so high they become incoherant and then shoving amyl in their face as well as to use demeaning language as Logan described, may be sadly "normal" and ok to you but it was a trigger for him. If you want to reduce everything in and about bars to sex that is your choice. I used to buy that but it is not always the case. Regardless, that is not the point of my post that you replied to.

I think Logan was absolutely right and very wise and fortunate to get out of that sitaution.
Dan

_________________________
When you stumble, make it part of the dance.

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#199077 - 01/11/08 06:56 PM Re: You guys were right (tears) [Re: Danbuff]
Lazarus Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/01/07
Posts: 851
Loc: Below the radar, USA
Dan, I completely agree with your last line;

Originally Posted By: Danbuff
I think Logan was absolutely right and very wise and fortunate to get out of that sitaution.
Dan


And while I generally agree with the rest of your post, I have to also agree with Jarrad to a certain extent. Logan went out looking for something and got more than he bargained for.

Logan, I'm not minimizing how traumatic this must have been for you. Jarrad's point was that for some other guys it might have been a turn on. I'm very glad you were strong enough to stand up for yourself and say "NO!" - that shows you have maturity and self worth. The fact that the guys stopped shows that they were not rapists. Sure one of them was a jerk, but the other one actually seemed concerned that they had offended or hurt you. I hope you take a lesson from all this, but not the one offered by Pain4ever that all gay guys are like that. We are not, and I am offended by the suggestion.

Bad people happen. Shit happens. I'm proud of you for taking control and demanding your boundaries be respected. That's the lesson I Hope you learned from this.

Best wishes,

Lazarus

_________________________
"That which does not kill us, surely makes us stonger." - Neitsche

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#199090 - 01/11/08 08:09 PM Re: You guys were right (tears) [Re: Lazarus]
Jarrad Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/27/06
Posts: 1071
Loc: arizona
dan, i said clearly to logan in my post "im not trying to demote your feelings because obviously they are very strong and you are emotionally raw." and was adding another perspective.

and my experiences do not belong in this thread. if you would like to discuss them further, please start another thread.

logan is 26 (older than me). not a kid. there was consentual sexual activities that got too intense and were stopped when asked. that's the black and white of it. i realize that to logan that this was tramatic. and i am sorry for that.

logan, i hope that you will one day be able to find real friends that you are searching for. everyone deserves that.


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#199098 - 01/11/08 08:46 PM Re: You guys were right (tears) [Re: Jarrad]
Danbuff Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/03/07
Posts: 249
Loc: NY state
Jarrad,
Your response appears that it was to me as it is says re me. And your reply starts , "I realize this is upsetting to you." Jarrad, I take issue with your quote that says "but taking this out episode out of "surivivor land" and recounting the events that happened, its just another night in gayopolis."

Jarrad, that statement is opposite of why we come here. The events gay men experience in "gayopolis" are often repeating the events and re-traumatize a survivor". Calling this "survivorland in context of the thread sounds like this is a joke. This is hard work and to me you sounded as if tou trivialized this....that may not be your intent but how it came off to me.

To my mind, minimizing, trivializing or normalizing threesomes, excessive alcohol, demeaning language, and saying gay bars=sex is taking a pass on abuse and manipulation. All I could think of that you were numb or perhaps are numb.

I was reminded of the last post I read by you and personally saw a direct association to numbing. The post is public and both your de>
_________________________
When you stumble, make it part of the dance.

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#199101 - 01/11/08 08:54 PM Re: You guys were right (tears) [Re: Danbuff]
Jarrad Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/27/06
Posts: 1071
Loc: arizona
actually, my post was for logan, not you. you just posted previously so it automatically goes to "reply to you."

and again. this isn't about me.


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#199105 - 01/11/08 09:04 PM Re: You guys were right (tears) [Re: Jarrad]
Danbuff Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/03/07
Posts: 249
Loc: NY state
Jarrad,
I hope you do not feel that this was about you per se as much as I meant to make the points that certain adult behaviors are still triggers to survivors. I think I was clear and hope and believe we will continue to support each other while having disagreements, misunderstandings or the like.

If you took my meaning otherwise, I am sorry and am glad we can have dialogue for the greater good with respect to all.

Peace,
Dan

_________________________
When you stumble, make it part of the dance.

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#199106 - 01/11/08 09:07 PM Re: You guys were right (tears) [Re: Danbuff]
Jarrad Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/27/06
Posts: 1071
Loc: arizona
i think the point could have been made without bringing my history into it. to me, that is off target for this thread. and i still have to disagree with your views as much as you disagree with mine.

no worries. appologie accepted. i was debating if i should bitch slap you or not. \:\)


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#199111 - 01/11/08 09:19 PM Re: You guys were right (tears) [Re: Jarrad]
Danbuff Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/03/07
Posts: 249
Loc: NY state
I stand by my posts and hope we all heal.:)

_________________________
When you stumble, make it part of the dance.

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#201397 - 01/25/08 09:17 PM Re: You guys were right (tears) [Re: Danbuff]
MagRaith Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/24/07
Posts: 69
Loc: Salt Lake City, UT
Logan - your experience really touched me. I have been in that same situation so many times that I can't even count. And it was always prompted by my extreme need for friendship. My T has helped me see one thing about myself - when I was very young I came to the conclusion that I was only good for one thing - sex. My abuse left me convinced that I would only be able to relate to other men if I allowed them to have sex with me, that no one would want anything to do with me otherwise. And so I ended up having experiences like yours over and over and never finding what I was really looking for.

Unfortunately, I would feel the same feelings you did of reliving my abuse, but I did not stop the sex because I was convinced that is how it should be. So I heartily applaud you for having the strength, courage and insight to say NO. My god, I hope you really understand how powerful that was for you to do. I still can't do it!!! Months of therapy and I still am convinced that I can't be friends with people unless I allow them to satisfy themselves sexually with me. It really sucks.

I know the root of it all is the intense need for friends, and the need to separate ourselves from what was drilled into our heads by the abuse. I sincerely hope you are able to make some good friends in a non-sexual relationship, and that you continue to stand up for yourself. And I hope you really pat yourself on the back for what you did in that situation, I sincerely think it was an amazing display of strength and courage.

I'm hoping that being involved in this website will help you and I both find some friends we can rely on who understand each other.

Kurt


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#201419 - 01/25/08 10:38 PM Re: You guys were right (tears) [Re: MagRaith]
blueshift Offline
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Registered: 01/21/08
Posts: 1242
Loc: infinity
Logan, I want congratulate you as well for your courage. I had a kind of similar experience just last weekend when a friend of a friend wanted to f* me. I was all for it till I smelled his BO and that is a trigger for me. I wish I had the strength you did to just say no, but I gave no indication at all that i wasn't ok with it.

Then my friend came while i was getting f* and was rubbing his cock on my face which also triggered the same gang-rape memory, but still i said nothing and pretended everything was ok even though i was really triggered. And these are people I knew would probably understand if i did say no, but i still couldn't do it. So i know it was a nightmare for you, but you really should be very proud of yourself, because i'm sure that if that had happened to me, i wouldn't have had that kind strength. I know you want to beat yourself up for getting yourself in to that situation, but instead, be proud of how you got yourself out!

_________________________
My Story
My Art

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#203641 - 02/05/08 05:03 AM Re: You guys were right (tears) [Re: Danbuff]
Nate Offline
Guest

Registered: 04/30/07
Posts: 94
Loc: Philadelphia, PA
i'm sorry buddy \:\(

i do agree - i'd probably have stayed frozen. way to get up and leave



Edited by Nate (02/05/08 05:04 AM)
_________________________
"Love the moment. Flowers grow out of dark moments. Therefore, each moment is vital. It affects the whole. Life is a succession of such moments and to live each, is to succeed."

- Corita Kent

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#203675 - 02/05/08 12:01 PM Re: You guys were right (tears) [Re: Nate]
VLinvictus Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/05/07
Posts: 273
Loc: NY
Logan, I just want to add my feelings of empathy for you're feeling and to commend you for having the courange and presence of mind to say no and leave when things got unbearable for you.

Just to comment on the situation in general, the problem in situations like this is one of perception. Different people can be in the same place at the same time and see the same event and interpret it completely differently based on their points of reference and their history. A less traumatic example from my own experience is that to this day I have a huge problem taking criticism -- even constructive criticism -- because it puts me back in the place of being berated by my dad for not measuring up and being "good enough." My employer may think he's giving me advice on how to do my job better; I hear "You're a worthless piece of sh*t and if you don't shape up you're fired."

From Logan's POV, this event brought him right back to the traumatic events of his abuse and the pain and fear that he relived is clear in his post and I'm sorry that this happened to him.

I do not think, though, that these men thought they were raping or taking advantage of him. They asked for his consent and they stopped when he told them to.

But there is one thing they did very wrong: they weren't aware and responsive to their partner's (Logan's) feelings and responses. Sex is (or should be) a form of "intercourse" or communication -- all participants need to be open and aware of what the other is feeling and be mindful and respectful of each others boundaries, needs, and desires.

If these guys had been thinking about anything other than getting their own jollies, it should have been obvious that Logan was not having a good time. A responsible person would have checked in with him and asked if everything was OK. They didn't do that, and Logan suffered for it. That is just plain selfish behavior.

I think I would agree that a gay bar is probably not the best place to go an make friends. It is possible for deep and loving friendships to evolve out of causal sexual relationships -- I know that first hand. But it might be better to seek out venues where one is less likely to be looked at primarily as a sex object. A club or a volunteer organization or something might be better.

_________________________
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
~ Oscar Wilde

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#210382 - 03/12/08 09:33 PM Re: You guys were right (tears) [Re: Danbuff]
JT's the Man Offline
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Registered: 02/21/08
Posts: 41
I'm sorry I have to disagree with Jarrad's post again.

Going in a bar does not entitle you to be raped.

Period.

JT


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#210421 - 03/13/08 12:25 AM Re: You guys were right (tears) [Re: JT's the Man]
Jarrad Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/27/06
Posts: 1071
Loc: arizona
this is an old post, but you're right. going to a bar doesnt entitle you to be raped. but thats not what happened. he wasn't raped. he said no. they stopped. but anyway... that's my 2 cents


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#210844 - 03/15/08 11:27 AM Re: You guys were right (tears) [Re: Danbuff]
Lazarus Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/01/07
Posts: 851
Loc: Below the radar, USA
Welcome back, Jarrad! We missed your witty reparte!

Some of you guys are talking like there IS something that justifies being raped... There is not! BUT, I have to weigh in on the side of those who think that it is also our own responsibility to do what we can to avoid being raped. I know for a fact that IF I go to certain bars and clubs, and IF I don't say 'no' loud and clear, somebody is going to do something sexual with/to me. I'm not implying that is the case for every gay bar, or even most of them; the point is that if I am looking for sex I can always find it. Logan was looking for love, and was invited for sex and he said yes. Could have been someone's fantasy. Maybe the other guys weren't as perceptive as they could have been (have none of you ever been horney???) but when Logan got triggered, THEY STOPPED. No way this was anything close to rape. I'm sorry Logan was triggered, but he walked right into it. Like Jarrad says, this sort of thing goes on all the time. Some of it hot fun, some of it is outright abuse. It all depends on the people involved.

Logan, again I'm sorry this happened to you. I think it was a learning experience, am I right? Nobody did anything wrong, but still you got hurt. I'm sad that happened to you.

Regards,

Lazarus

_________________________
"That which does not kill us, surely makes us stonger." - Neitsche

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#210871 - 03/15/08 02:00 PM Re: You guys were right (tears) [Re: Lazarus]
Jarrad Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/27/06
Posts: 1071
Loc: arizona
laz, haha i love how i go off spewing my mouth and then you come in with a post that explains what i mean in a rational way. so yeah.. what you said.
i missed you guys too... didn't expect to seet his post resserected.


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