actually, my post was for logan, not you. you just posted previously so it automatically goes to "reply to you."

and again. this isn't about me.

Jarrad,
I hope you do not feel that this was about you per se as much as I meant to make the points that certain adult behaviors are still triggers to survivors. I think I was clear and hope and believe we will continue to support each other while having disagreements, misunderstandings or the like.

If you took my meaning otherwise, I am sorry and am glad we can have dialogue for the greater good with respect to all.

Peace,
Dan

i think the point could have been made without bringing my history into it. to me, that is off target for this thread. and i still have to disagree with your views as much as you disagree with mine.

no worries. appologie accepted. i was debating if i should bitch slap you or not.

I stand by my posts and hope we all heal.:)

Logan - your experience really touched me. I have been in that same situation so many times that I can't even count. And it was always prompted by my extreme need for friendship. My T has helped me see one thing about myself - when I was very young I came to the conclusion that I was only good for one thing - sex. My abuse left me convinced that I would only be able to relate to other men if I allowed them to have sex with me, that no one would want anything to do with me otherwise. And so I ended up having experiences like yours over and over and never finding what I was really looking for.

Unfortunately, I would feel the same feelings you did of reliving my abuse, but I did not stop the sex because I was convinced that is how it should be. So I heartily applaud you for having the strength, courage and insight to say NO. My god, I hope you really understand how powerful that was for you to do. I still can't do it!!! Months of therapy and I still am convinced that I can't be friends with people unless I allow them to satisfy themselves sexually with me. It really sucks.

I know the root of it all is the intense need for friends, and the need to separate ourselves from what was drilled into our heads by the abuse. I sincerely hope you are able to make some good friends in a non-sexual relationship, and that you continue to stand up for yourself. And I hope you really pat yourself on the back for what you did in that situation, I sincerely think it was an amazing display of strength and courage.

I'm hoping that being involved in this website will help you and I both find some friends we can rely on who understand each other.

Kurt

Logan, I want congratulate you as well for your courage. I had a kind of similar experience just last weekend when a friend of a friend wanted to f* me. I was all for it till I smelled his BO and that is a trigger for me. I wish I had the strength you did to just say no, but I gave no indication at all that i wasn't ok with it.

Then my friend came while i was getting f* and was rubbing his cock on my face which also triggered the same gang-rape memory, but still i said nothing and pretended everything was ok even though i was really triggered. And these are people I knew would probably understand if i did say no, but i still couldn't do it. So i know it was a nightmare for you, but you really should be very proud of yourself, because i'm sure that if that had happened to me, i wouldn't have had that kind strength. I know you want to beat yourself up for getting yourself in to that situation, but instead, be proud of how you got yourself out!

i'm sorry buddy

i do agree - i'd probably have stayed frozen. way to get up and leave

Logan, I just want to add my feelings of empathy for you're feeling and to commend you for having the courange and presence of mind to say no and leave when things got unbearable for you.

Just to comment on the situation in general, the problem in situations like this is one of perception. Different people can be in the same place at the same time and see the same event and interpret it completely differently based on their points of reference and their history. A less traumatic example from my own experience is that to this day I have a huge problem taking criticism -- even constructive criticism -- because it puts me back in the place of being berated by my dad for not measuring up and being "good enough." My employer may think he's giving me advice on how to do my job better; I hear "You're a worthless piece of sh*t and if you don't shape up you're fired."

From Logan's POV, this event brought him right back to the traumatic events of his abuse and the pain and fear that he relived is clear in his post and I'm sorry that this happened to him.

I do not think, though, that these men thought they were raping or taking advantage of him. They asked for his consent and they stopped when he told them to.

But there is one thing they did very wrong: they weren't aware and responsive to their partner's (Logan's) feelings and responses. Sex is (or should be) a form of "intercourse" or communication -- all participants need to be open and aware of what the other is feeling and be mindful and respectful of each others boundaries, needs, and desires.

If these guys had been thinking about anything other than getting their own jollies, it should have been obvious that Logan was not having a good time. A responsible person would have checked in with him and asked if everything was OK. They didn't do that, and Logan suffered for it. That is just plain selfish behavior.

I think I would agree that a gay bar is probably not the best place to go an make friends. It is possible for deep and loving friendships to evolve out of causal sexual relationships -- I know that first hand. But it might be better to seek out venues where one is less likely to be looked at primarily as a sex object. A club or a volunteer organization or something might be better.

I'm sorry I have to disagree with Jarrad's post again.

Going in a bar does not entitle you to be raped.

Period.

JT

this is an old post, but you're right. going to a bar doesnt entitle you to be raped. but thats not what happened. he wasn't raped. he said no. they stopped. but anyway... that's my 2 cents