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#166911 - 07/15/07 11:54 PM Re: Dave is his name (*triggers*) [Re: roadrunner]
EGL Offline
Moderator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 06/19/04
Posts: 7821
Larry, that's a really good point you made about "How could the wounds have healed? Was there anyone we could talk to? Was there anything we could have done to face things ourselves back then? How could we have healed, in just a few years, from something that devastates boys to the extent that sexual abuse does?"

I think that before we all began our healing process (which for me was just 3 years ago), we were still broken men as well. Trying to muddle through life using whatever coping mechanisms we could come up with, but still - broken men. The broken boy we were as children simply matured physically into a broken man.

And you're right about Dave - instead of grooming me, he should have seen and recognized the tale-tell signs of abuse (since he was, after all, a psychologist) and done something to nurture and protect me.

You said:

Quote:

But your memories about Dave must be the memories of Little Eddie, right? So memories of what appeared to be a pretty great guy, the father figure and role model you needed back then. To see how wrong all your ideas really were must be a terrible blow ... the broken boy hanging onto his hopes about Dave and preferring to blame himself rather than admit there was no father figure, no role model, not ever - just a predator waiting to strike.


I think what you said above is what's really bothering me about Dave. I sooooo wanted him to be what I needed, and when it was apparent that he wasn't that, then it was like I was in denial because I didn't want the dream to end. And looking back now, it's like I somehow want it to still be what I idealized it as - him being the father I needed. I think that's what bothers me about my first wife, Cheryl, as well. Since she was that perfect angel bride that I married, and then ended up commiting numerous adulteries....it's like I want all that to somehow not be true, and that somehow she would really be what I thought she was.

I guess I have a problem with not wanting to accept reality when people I have held up to such high ideals turn out to be something else. Like you said, it's Little Eddie holding onto memories and not wanting to let them go.

_________________________
Eddie

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#167025 - 07/16/07 07:37 PM Re: Dave is his name (*triggers*) [Re: EGL]
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
Eddie,

Originally Posted By: EGL
it's Little Eddie holding onto memories and not wanting to let them go.


Don't our little guys do that out of a need to feel safe? They need something they know - something tangible - to rely on. Remember all the fantasy games we played when we were boys? Remember how absolutely real the games seemed.

I think what the little ones need now is for us to take them by the hand and show them that the real world can be safe for them as well. They don't need to invent an imaginary refuge or cling to illusory images anymore. They can trust us to lead them in a healthy way and watch over their boundaries for them.

As they become more confident of that I think their need for the old false images will fade. They will always regret how terribly they were betrayed, sure. But they will then be able to walk away from the liars and betrayers and seek their safety and comfort in places where there really is safety and comfort to be found.

Just some thoughts, bro.

Much love,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

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#222381 - 05/04/08 12:02 AM Re: Dave is his name (*triggers*) [Re: roadrunner]
EGL Offline
Moderator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 06/19/04
Posts: 7821
I'm resurrecting this poem from last year because I have some more I want to add to where I left off with it last summer. A couple of important things have happened since then. One, is that I have found out that I was actually 16 instead of 14 when this came to a conclusion with Dave. I was able to determine that by the release date of an album that I knew Dave had, which was 1977, so I would have been 16 then. I'm still pretty sure he was in his early to mid 30s at that time. Second, is that I disclosed to some close friends about the events of the end of all this, and I want to go deeper into writing about the relationship with Dave, where it went, and my feelings behind that.

Here's where I left off last summer, and I've modified it a little. I'm going add some more beyond the '...'

(*continued from above*)
So many things I want for
Dave to be.
"Dave, will you be my father?
Will you love me, be kind to me?"
I don't think my father loves me,
I know he doesn't like me.
So many things I want for
Dave to be.
And I'll be whatever
Dave wants me to be.
I don't care
what he says, or
what he asks, or
what he does, or
what he wants me to do,
I need to focus on Dave.
...
My insides are blind,
But Dave, you are what I need.
I want to be your desire,
Your need,
To fullfill whatever you want,
I want to be needed by you.
Can you say you need me, too?
You touch me but I don't care,
At least you aren't hitting me
like the father does.
Your touch feels good,
different,
not like those before,
and I'm glad to make you happy.
Red wine flows,
much like my shame that comes later,
but today we are together,
you and I,
let it flow.
You touch me more,
invading my clothes,
dropping them,
helping yourself,
my body is there to serve you.
All done now,
I wonder if it will change anything.
And it does.
I hate myself for becoming
like the ones before,
I hate myself for "receiving",
instead of "giving".
But Dave goes away,
takes his wife and kids,
and moves away from me.
I tried to be
what he needed me to be.

_________________________
Eddie

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#222384 - 05/04/08 01:06 AM Re: Dave is his name (*triggers*) [Re: EGL]
Freedom49 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/30/07
Posts: 2723
Loc: Washington State
Eddie. I can so relate to this. I read through all of this Thread and I too was astonished that someone would think you did not get hurt badly by Dave. I got it. I soooo understand that need that you have. I say have because I suspect it is still there after all these years like mine is.
I was talking to Jarrad in chat and happened to mention "prostituting" myself for acceptance, love and approval. He stated that we obviously have different definations of that word. I laughed because I do not think the definations are that far off. I would have sold my body, and actually did, for a little love and comfort. A "father figure" if you will. Just to hear some one say those three little words.
I do not go as cheap nowadays. I have learned. I am hoping you have too.


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#222387 - 05/04/08 01:30 AM Re: Dave is his name (*triggers*) [Re: Freedom49]
EGL Offline
Moderator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 06/19/04
Posts: 7821
Thanks, Roger. Finally admitting that there had indeed been a sexual relationship between Dave and myself was difficult for several reasons. Mainly, it has been shame. Another is because it is just so hard for me to put words together in a way that can adequately describe the whole thing. I still have trouble even putting my finger on what it is about this whole thing that troubles me so.

_________________________
Eddie

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#222459 - 05/04/08 01:36 PM Re: Dave is his name (*triggers*) [Re: EGL]
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
Eddie,

As I have already said to you privately, you were a teenager trying to get his needs met - that's all. It was up to Dave to make sure the proper boundaries stayed in place, but he didn't do that. Indeed, look at his slick moves: porn, wine, leading sexual questions. All that was aimed at letting you know that the support you needed was going to come at a price, and that it was okay to pay this price.

You weren't in a position to make solid balanced decisions for yourself Eddie. All you knew was that you needed to be special and lovable for once. Who can blame you for that? The shame here is all Dave's.

Much love,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

Top
#222549 - 05/04/08 11:33 PM Re: Dave is his name (*triggers*) [Re: roadrunner]
EGL Offline
Moderator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 06/19/04
Posts: 7821
Thanks, Larry. I've been thinking about this a lot today, and how I was seeing Dave as such a father figure. And that led me to thinking about why that was, and that obviously points back to my own father. I think I'm going to try and write out a letter to my father and see where that takes me. As I've said in the past, my relationship with my father is just dead, and I feel nothing for him. So maybe this is something I need to work on to resolve this as well.

_________________________
Eddie

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#223085 - 05/07/08 04:31 PM Re: Dave is his name (*triggers*) [Re: EGL]
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
Eddie,

Your poems are just full of a boy's aching need for Dave to be the caring male role model you so desperately wanted - and deserved!

If you can write a letter to your father I think that would be great. Whether or not you give it to him makes no difference; just getting your feelings down in a visible form will help a lot, I bet.

Or what about a poem? You are comfortable using verse and many of your poems are so full of passion and honest emotion. Perhaps that would be the way to go.

Much love,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

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