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#156503 - 05/16/07 01:59 PM Re: Dave is his name (*triggers*) [Re: EGL]
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
Eddie,

Hey Little Bro, there was nothing wrong or stupid about you, and whatever was broken wasn't broken by you:

Originally Posted By: EGL
"Dave, will you be my father?
Will you love me, be kind to me?"


Eddie you were 14. These two lines come from a boy who was in the deepest darkest hell imaginable for a kid that age. What could be worse than to feel you weren't lovable or special or important, not even at home?

You have done nothing to be ashamed of. You have fought back against so much and regained so much. It's a truly amazing and inspiring thing to be with you on your healing journey.

Much love,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

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#156567 - 05/17/07 12:20 AM Re: Dave is his name (*triggers*) [Re: roadrunner]
EGL Offline
Moderator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 06/19/04
Posts: 7821
Thanks, Bobby and Larry. I appreciate you so much.

_________________________
Eddie

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#156765 - 05/17/07 09:51 PM Re: Dave is his name (*triggers*) [Re: EGL]
EGL Offline
Moderator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 06/19/04
Posts: 7821
Originally Posted By: EGL
....continued....

"Hey, Dave - FUCK YOU!"


Sorry, Dave, I didn't mean that.

_________________________
Eddie

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#156790 - 05/18/07 01:04 AM Re: Dave is his name (*triggers*) [Re: EGL]
EGL Offline
Moderator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 06/19/04
Posts: 7821
A good friend from here e-mailed me this evening and asked if there was something more about Dave that I felt like I needed to say, but was having trouble with. There is, on several levels.

I've stated elsewhere how that I first met Dave when I was about 10. My older perp brother met him about that same time as well. When I was 12, my brother started his sexual abuse of me. So here is what's been on my mind -- I'm wondering, of course, whether Dave got to my brother and abused him, which is why my brother then started in on me. It doesn't seem to be out of the realm of possibility for me. And perhaps even more importantly, I'm wondering if my brother steered Dave towards me in order to get Dave to leave him alone. I can just imagine my brother saying "Dave, I have a little brother who will (___fill in the blank___)", since I was 14 when things with Dave started to get crazy. I know that probably sounds like crazy talk, but hey - my life has been crazy.

Other stuff in my head about Dave -- I liked Dave a lot, obviously, and still beat myself up pretty good for being in the situation I was with him. But there was the huge emotional vacuum of a father who wasn't a father. And I was wanting Dave to fill that role, so much so that I would have literally done anything to have him be that to me. Being that he was a psychologist by trade, I often wonder if he was able to read that in me, and I know that surely he must have been able to.

Some part of me is mad with Dave for the way he was playing me along, setting me up, and yet another part of me is still thinking that perhaps he could have been what I was hoping he would have been all along. But in reality I know that never could have happened.

O.k., enough rambling for now.

_________________________
Eddie

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#156804 - 05/18/07 05:49 AM Re: Dave is his name (*triggers*) [Re: EGL]
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
Eddie,

I know this isn't what your latest post is getting at, but I wanted to say first that even if Dave was abusing your brother Robert that doesn't give Robert a pass for what he did to you. This was no experimentation or "fooling around" between two curious boys. By the time he started on you he was old enough to know it was wrong and he used cruel tricks and threats to gain your compliance. He went on to betray you further in later years, and as I understand from you, even now he isn't sorry for what he did. That's an abuser and sociopath pure and simple.

I hadn't kept in my head the fact that Dave was a psychologist. You're right - he could probably read "lonely emotionally starved boy" all over you and made his move on that basis.

What strikes me as really important about your response to him is this:

Originally Posted By: EGL
Some part of me is mad with Dave for the way he was playing me along, setting me up, and yet another part of me is still thinking that perhaps he could have been what I was hoping he would have been all along. But in reality I know that never could have happened.


The part of you that still wishes Dave could have been a safe caring father figure for you is the Young Eddie part, and it's not difficult to imagine why he needs to hold onto this false hope. If the hope is utterly forelorn and if Dave was just interested in using and abusing Young Eddie, then Eddie figures he's stuck with the possibility that he didn't deserve a safe loving father figure at all, not even an adopted one. He's left with the idea that maybe he was just worthless and an abuse magnet.

I think young Eddie will cling to his false ideas about himself and about Dave - and they are TOTALLY false - until you can convince him that he was a deserving boy after all. Deserving of love, affection, attention, respect, friendship, the whole shebang. Once he really believes that none of what happened to him was his fault or his failing, I bet he will be more willing to let go of his false hopes and his feelings for Dave.

This was the ultimate betrayal, Eddie. Dave could see what a state you were in and what your needs were. Instead he saw this as an opportunity to exploit you for his own entertainment, knowing what that would do to you as a boy and later on as a man. I think in time Young Eddie will see this as clearly as you do.

Much love,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

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#156857 - 05/18/07 04:36 PM Re: Dave is his name (*triggers*) [Re: roadrunner]
EGL Offline
Moderator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 06/19/04
Posts: 7821
I want to start this by saying that I don't want anyone to take this the wrong way. I love each and every one of you guys like you are my own flesh, and I am so thankful to have each of you in my life. I think I must not be expressing myself on this thread very well to say what the outcome of all this was. If I sound emotional or bitchy or whatever, it's just me feeling frustrated with my inability to be understood. I know it's not that you guys don't "get it", but it's me that's not getting it across somehow.

I hear comments like "I'm glad he didn't hurt you" or "I'm glad he didn't do anything to you", etc. from different people. Those cut me in the gut. By the time Dave moved away, he had already mind-fucked me - so what if there was never any genital contact? That would have just been the last piece of the puzzle.

"didn't hurt me"? Really? Again, I know I'm not expressing well enough what was going on, and I guess my frustration is flowing from that. I want to be understood and feel like I'm just not making it happen. Hearing that I wasn't hurt makes my mind think: "Then WTF was all that???" Yeah, when he put his arm around me and held on to me, it made me feel creepy, yet I felt wanted at the same time. So the desire to feel wanted won out of the feeling of creepy.

I'm sorry if this sounds like a lunatic raving, and I'm sure it does, but this is a real big one for me. To me it doesn't matter that Dave never took it all the way; at the point he had gotten me, it didn't really matter anymore whether he did or didn't. I was just as fucked either way.

_________________________
Eddie

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#156858 - 05/18/07 04:54 PM Re: Dave is his name (*triggers*) [Re: EGL]
EGL Offline
Moderator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 06/19/04
Posts: 7821
FOLLOWUP: I think what makes Dave every bit as bad (and I actually think WORSE) than the ones before him is that it didn't even have to get to genital contact for him to make me feel about myself the way he did. All he had to do was the "foreplay", so to speak, and I ended up feeling like the slutty, whore boy I knew I was.

_________________________
Eddie

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#156908 - 05/18/07 11:34 PM Re: Dave is his name (*triggers*) [Re: EGL]
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
Eddie,

Even though it didn't go as far as sexual contact you were still utterly betrayed by this guy. He led you on for reasons that were all about him, never about you. I think this is worth stressing, because, as before, you were the victim here. All you wanted was what every boy wants - and needs. For all the rest he is to blame, and somehow Young Eddie the 14-year-old needs to know this and believe it.

Much love,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

Top
#166748 - 07/15/07 02:41 AM Re: Dave is his name (*triggers*) [Re: roadrunner]
EGL Offline
Moderator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 06/19/04
Posts: 7821
Thank you, Larry. I came back and read through this entire thread again tonight. Why, I don't know. It's a couple of months old, but that doesn't matter, it's still on my mind. The shame is gone (Thank God), but I'm still feeling something unfinished about this, and needed to reread it to see if I can understand it better. I had to sit here and think for a while, asking myself "What is it about this that is still bothering me?" I guess the closest thing I can come up with is that I feel used and fucked over.

_________________________
Eddie

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#166762 - 07/15/07 07:14 AM Re: Dave is his name (*triggers*) [Re: EGL]
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
Eddie,

I wrote my last comment on this thread the day before I left for San Francisco, and it's interesting to look back at this now that I have returned. It took the experience of actually going back for me to understand that what happened to me there was abuse, not me making bad decisions and whoring around. In looking at what was going on my central thought was that I was 20, so old enough to keep myself safe. I wasn't forced into what he wanted, and I could have left at any time. In fact, as I think I told you once, I used to stop in one of those little mission places and offer a little prayer to God - assuming he was listening - that I wouldn't get hurt that night as bad as he had hurt me the previous night. I was sick with fear, sure, but I still walked back into the inferno every single time. It was my decision, my thinking went, so the consequences must be my fault.

But now I can see it more clearly, thanks not only to my experience of seeing the city again and going to a lot of places that had been relevant to me back in 1969, but also following up on opportunities to talk to guys like you and another friend who had had experiences that were somehow similar to mine.

It comes back to a phrase you and I trade back and forth a lot: broken boy. It's not just that we had been abused and had no boundaries any more, Eddie. I can look back and recall so clearly how helpless, lost and worthless I still felt, even at the age of 20. All he had to do was hit on me and call me "lovely boy", like the abuser of my childhood had done, and the house of cards came crashing down.

We have a tendency to think that as we grew older the wounds of our childhood should have healed somehow, at least on such basic points as keeping ourselves safe from predators. So it hurts to look back and recall how easily we fell apart again at an older age, or, in your case, could have fallen apart.

But our key to healing and understanding, I think, is again those two words: "broken boy". How could the wounds have healed? Was there anyone we could talk to? Was there anything we could have done to face things ourselves back then? How could we have healed, in just a few years, from something that devastates boys to the extent that sexual abuse does?

We were used and fucked over, Eddie, but that wasn't because of any failing on our part. We were doing the best we could with the feeble tools and resources we had as wrecked abused kids.

Since returning from San Francisco I have struggled a lot with all those memories, and I think what has troubled me the most has been the fact that at the age of 20 I was still so defenseless. I think that's the right word - "defenseless", since it suggests the idea that I should have put up the defenses, but didn't. Does that sound familiar?

But I am beginning to see that there's no failing here, nothing for which I should blame myself. I think it's okay that we were still defenseless as older teens or even into our 20s. Terrible damage had been done to us, and we were just walking testimony to how enduring that harm can be. It wasn't our fault.

In your case I recall what you said in your post on the "Our Secret Doors" thread about how Dave recognized your brokenness and used it against you. That's a pretty massive act of betrayal - he had known you for years! Shouldn't his response have been to nurture and protect you? Instead, he groomed you. What a bastard.

But your memories about Dave must be the memories of Little Eddie, right? So memories of what appeared to be a pretty great guy, the father figure and role model you needed back then. To see how wrong all your ideas really were must be a terrible blow, and I think it would be natural if there are lingering thoughts like, "Maybe I didn't deserve to be safe" or "Maybe he just recognized what I was really like". Again, the broken boy hanging onto his hopes about Dave and preferring to blame himself rather than admit there was no father figure, no role model, not ever - just a predator waiting to strike.

Right there is a week's worth of tears, bro! But the truth is there as well. You really were that defenseless, and that was okay. And Dave really was a selfish bastard, and all the grooming, trickery and false friendship were his fault and his crime. It looks to me like he worked pretty hard for the blame here, Eddie. Why not just let him have it - ALL of it.

Much love,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

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