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#154535 - 05/05/07 11:54 AM Im new. Im embarrassed.
Rixxagain Offline
New Here

Registered: 05/05/07
Posts: 7
Loc: AZ
Hi. Im new to the site and have a question. Ive read alot here about how many have confusion about thier sexuality, Gay-Straight-Bi, as a result of childhood sexual abuse. Do any of you have question or confusion about gender as a result of this? Maybe this is somewhat unique to me.. my abuse doesnt cause me sexual identity problems. Its more gender identity problems, and I dont know if that is a result of the abuse, influenced by the abuse or completely separate from the abuse. I have wondered often if others with a history like mine, feel this gender confusion. I never knew about this site until this morning. Any help or input would be so appreciated.


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#154538 - 05/05/07 12:08 PM Re: Im new. Im embarrassed. [Re: Rixxagain]
Hauser Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/12/05
Posts: 2962
Loc: United States
Sexual confusion? I know ALL ABOUT that. Gender confusion is another matter entirely, obviously, and I can offer no input on that matter except to say that THAT is something a professional therapist is trained to work on.


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#154541 - 05/05/07 12:18 PM Re: Im new. Im embarrassed. [Re: Hauser]
Brian Offline
Moderator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 05/03/01
Posts: 1563
Loc: Upstate NY
Hi Rixx,

Welcome to Male Survivor! I'm glad that you found us!

I don't personally know anything about sexual and/or gender confusion but I'm sure there will be several people here who will be able to discuss this issue with you. I just wanted to take this opportuntiy to welcome you here. You will find that there are many supportive and friendly people here.

Brian

_________________________
Recovery is Possible!

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#154545 - 05/05/07 12:31 PM Re: Im new. Im embarrassed. [Re: Rixxagain]
reality2k4 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/06/04
Posts: 6838
Loc: Stuck between water, air, and ...
I know about sexuality confusion.
Gender confusion may stem from being used like a girl, and
so you delve into becoming one.

A lot of transexuals and transvestites have a history of being
abused as kids, so it fits a pattern,

ste

_________________________
Whoever stole the Sun, put it back and we'll drop all the charges!

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#154550 - 05/05/07 01:00 PM Re: Im new. Im embarrassed. [Re: reality2k4]
mogigo Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/24/07
Posts: 1331
Loc: Colorado
Hey Rixx, I have this problem. I fantasize often about gender issues. Usually I can relate better to my sexuality thinking of myself as a girl. Haven't figured it out yet, it causes me much anxiety, something that adds to my confusion with my sexuality. I think this is a very complex issue, it is for me anyway. I think the other guys said it best. I think you should take this issue up with a trained professional. I just wanted to let you know your not alone, tough stuff I know.

Stay strong
Mike

_________________________
Thriving

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#154551 - 05/05/07 01:07 PM Re: Im new. Im embarrassed. [Re: reality2k4]
Rixxagain Offline
New Here

Registered: 05/05/07
Posts: 7
Loc: AZ
Thank you for the welcome and the very quick response. I was surprised. I spent alot of years in therapy, and it did help me in alot of ways.... not completely though. Reality2k4, in many ways you hit right on it. In much of my abuse, I was 6 or so at the time, I remember wondering why he thought I was a girl. While I know that the abuse was all him, I wondered if I was acting like one, or if he saw me as one. To this day I run around phobic about whether Im acting feminine or not.
Its not the whole story though. It seems that the general consensus about sexuality is that it is something structured before or shortly after birth, dependent on genetics and hormone levels, and is not much due to environmental factors. This same holds true for gender development. Consider though, given a case of continued sexualt assault against a male child. He suffers the same humliation, shame, violation, confusion about the pleasure aspects of it, etc, etc as a girl in that situation. Could it stand that ( being a spiritual person ) God may have looked down and said, " Hmmm. This is not good what happened to Rick here. And he may need to practice some coping methods more common to a females thinking which will be confusing for him, but is still necessary..." and there goes the pattern for a more female development? Does that make any sense at all? Haha. Or am I just trying to blame my perp for this too, in addition to all the other gifts he gave? Please be honest. If God gave me the spirit of a female- man I am all about it then. If this is just the result of the abuser again... then my quest for ownership of me continues. Thanks again to all for your quick response.
Rick


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#154555 - 05/05/07 01:17 PM Re: Im new. Im embarrassed. [Re: Rixxagain]
Rixxagain Offline
New Here

Registered: 05/05/07
Posts: 7
Loc: AZ
Mike- thank you. That is EXACTLY how I feel. Exactly, and it so helps to know Im not alone in this. I too relate much better to my sexuality seeing myself as female. In fact, it seems that my sexuality comes together that way. Hmm. It may be that my entire essence comes together that way. Haha. And it is most complicated and causes me too- much anxiety. Probably more than it rates, ya know? It so helps though, to know if others can identify. Thanks Mike... stay strong too.
Rick


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#154556 - 05/05/07 01:20 PM Re: Im new. Im embarrassed. [Re: Rixxagain]
reality2k4 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/06/04
Posts: 6838
Loc: Stuck between water, air, and ...
Quote:
I wondered if I was acting like one, or if he saw me as one. To this day I run around phobic about whether Im acting feminine or not.


Exactly how I thought, and the other thing is, that you may have wanted not to be a boy, nor a man, because men do such horrible things. I thought when young, that if I dressed as a girl, nobody would want me, but boys dont go well in girls stuff.

Abuse does have femininity problems abundant,

ste

_________________________
Whoever stole the Sun, put it back and we'll drop all the charges!

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#154559 - 05/05/07 01:50 PM Re: Im new. Im embarrassed. [Re: reality2k4]
Rixxagain Offline
New Here

Registered: 05/05/07
Posts: 7
Loc: AZ
Right on Ste. I didnt want to be a boy, or a man for exactly those reasons. I have issues to this day about it. And while the abuse has many implications in it, it may not be the whole story. Consider too though, a desire to be a girl or not to be a boy, only explains the desire aspects of it. Like- the desire of many trans people to be seen as the opposite sex doesnt explain WHO they are... thier essence. See? The desire to be the opposite sex doesnt make them the opposite sex and that gets misinterpreted, and many of them find it erotic to feel that desire. Like Mike said above though, " I relate better to my sexuality thinking of ""myself as a girl"". It doesnt seem like he is saying " I want to be a girl ", as much as it is saying " I understand myself " as a girl. See? ( I apologize, I dont mean to indicate in any way Mikes' concept of himself, only to say that he does not seem to be saying that he has a desire to be female,,, only that he understands his sexuality as a female. Not that he is one in gender ) This is exactly how I feel. The words - myself and girl - indicate ownership. While it is so true, my desire to be a female and not male comes at least in part from the abuse, it doesnt explain that I already see myself or identify myself as a female. In short, that desire not to be a male doesnt explain WHO I am, how I feel or identify. See?


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#154569 - 05/05/07 02:24 PM Re: Im new. Im embarrassed. [Re: Rixxagain]
reality2k4 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/06/04
Posts: 6838
Loc: Stuck between water, air, and ...
I had the same strong feelings growing up, but now they are buried in my psyche. I am now proud of being a man.
Yeah, ppl called me 'she', in work and my siblings still do, but
I take no notice.

I watched a program called, my life as a child, and it followed a boy who would love to wear skirts, and was more at home with girls than boys. He doesnt care what anybody thinks, and I admire him for his openness with ppl who all love him for who he is.

We are all unique,

ste

_________________________
Whoever stole the Sun, put it back and we'll drop all the charges!

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#154581 - 05/05/07 03:42 PM Re: Im new. Im embarrassed. [Re: reality2k4]
Rixxagain Offline
New Here

Registered: 05/05/07
Posts: 7
Loc: AZ
Its funny how these childhood things go... The influence they project on our lives. In theory, we are supposed to have total control and freedom of choice in life and what we do or become. For me, that freedom has been like the battle at Midway.
PPl seem to be doing that 'she' thing to me more as time goes on. My granddaughter keeps calling me Grandma. Me? Im just too damm tired to get worked up about it. I read this inspirational thing in my therapists office from an 85 year old man that was dying. Someone asked him what he would do over if he could and he said, " I would have a hell of alot more real problems and a hell of alot less imaginary ones". To me. that meant, not that anyones problems arent real, but more like, - big woop. Why stress and obsess about these things.
I too admire and respect PPL like that person in the movie. The strength of character that takes,,, I'd like to have. Ya know though Ste, I dont think that people really care what we are. I think all they really care about is that what they are seeing is real, sincere and honest.
Peace
Rick


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#154582 - 05/05/07 03:42 PM Re: Im new. Im embarrassed. [Re: reality2k4]
mogigo Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/24/07
Posts: 1331
Loc: Colorado
Hey Rick, don't worry about apoligizing you hit the nail on the head. I think maybe alot of the feelings come from the acceptence of society as well. As in society would not accept my sexuality in a male sense but would accept it in a female. So maybe my desire to think as a female comes from my need to be accepted. Gee, then I'd be a totaly accepted sexual being, wouldn't that be nice. In fact I'd be desired for it and that would be really really nice.

Mike

_________________________
Thriving

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#154588 - 05/05/07 04:17 PM Re: Im new. Im embarrassed. [Re: mogigo]
Rixxagain Offline
New Here

Registered: 05/05/07
Posts: 7
Loc: AZ
Right. In large part, I understand what you are saying. As a female, everything would line right up. My sexuality, gender identity, social acceptance, all that would be perfectly normal,,, and healthy. Very mentally healthy.
Tell me if youve ever heard this before.
Essence is the difference between how I relate to myself and how I relate to the world. What this means to me is, how I relate, feel and think to myself is completely different than how I relate the same to the world. One may think right off, that essence, who I am - doesnt have much to do with social issues, but it really does, at least for me. I may be the softest, kindest most compassionate and loving person on earth within, but that is not what I present to the world. I may have the deepest, most romantic, passionate fantasies within myself, but noone out there would know it, and wouldnt accept it if they did. This leaves me with a rift,,, what I am in essence doesnt fit with society. If I was a female though, it would all line up and I would fit perfectly. My essence wold be cohesive with society. I would feel normal, healthy and desirable.
Everyone has these rifts in essence between self and society to some extent, and I try and ensure that Im not glamorizing things. I think too though, that while society is getting alot more accepting of GLBT, we ourselves within, is where real acceptance must be. I may already have social acceptance - but it wouldnt do me any good at all if I dont accept me. I wouldnt even see it. Like I just said to Ste, most people, the vast majority, dont really care about what we are. They care that they are being treated with the dignity of seeing truth and sincerity. If I were, as a female, to feel normal, healthy and desirable ,,, I dont see any reason why I shouldnt anyways.
\:\)

Rick


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#154595 - 05/05/07 05:31 PM Re: Im new. Im embarrassed. [Re: Rixxagain]
WalkingSouth Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/30/05
Posts: 16265
Hi Rick,

Welcome to MaleSurvivor. Glad you found our little hideaway on the www. You've received some great interaction here so far. Glad that is happening. I don't struggle with the issue of gender confusion, but wanted to bid you welcome just the same.

Lots of love,

John

_________________________
“Life’s journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting ‘Holy ____…! What a ride!’” ~Hunter S. Thompson

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#154596 - 05/05/07 05:34 PM Re: Im new. Im embarrassed. [Re: Rixxagain]
EGL Offline
Moderator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 06/19/04
Posts: 7821
Hello, Rick,

I can relate somewhat on the gender identity issue due to several reasons. I was born the 3rd son of 3 children, and my father had been wanting a girl. He even had the girl's name already picked out, etc. Instead, out popped me with a penis, the beginning of my life as a disappointment to him because I was not a girl. When my older brother began sexually abusing me, he used me like a girl, and even furthered that by humiliating me in front of neighborhood kids by calling me "Little Sister".

So you can imagine the mind-fuck all that was doing on me. I married at 18, partly to get away from my father, and partly to "prove" to myself that I was a man by doing what men do - get married and have sex with a woman in a normal heterosexual manner.

This is a hard issue for a lot of sexual abuse survivors, Rick. I'm glad you've joined MS and I know it can help you as you start to heal from the past. Welcome!

_________________________
Eddie

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#154602 - 05/05/07 06:20 PM Re: Im new. Im embarrassed. [Re: EGL]
mogigo Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/24/07
Posts: 1331
Loc: Colorado
Yes, I think I'm following you Rick, big thought's for little old me \:\) I think I have accepted myself, my real self, but when I go out into the world my suit of armor definately comes on. No way I'm going to portray my kind, caring, feminine side to the world. While many people would like this side, it leaves me far to open to victimization by the creatures that crawl around in our society. Too many see these QUALITIES as weakness in a male and pounce at any sign of weakness from others. I would actually call this weakness from them for actually taking offence at others percieved failings. Of course that doesn't stop the danger, so the qualities are hidden away by me until they can come out in safe places like here.

I think it's nonsense to think that we all don't need acceptance by society as a whole, I think alot of the problems in the world are from paring ourselves down into little groups of people where every difference is seen as a threat by another group. Civilation has only come about by the acceptance of more and more differences, and if we ever hope to keep moving forward it will be done by continuing to pull more and more differences into the acceptible catagory.

I do think by accepting my real self though I do move farther and farther into isolation. It feels better as whole personally but I lose alot of the social part of myself, the part of me that would be cultivated by being allowed to express myself honestly in society is being stunted, so in a sense I again am not becoming what would be considered the real me.

Hope that made some sense.
Mike

_________________________
Thriving

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#154651 - 05/05/07 10:28 PM Re: Im new. Im embarrassed. [Re: mogigo]
Rixxagain Offline
New Here

Registered: 05/05/07
Posts: 7
Loc: AZ
Yes, this is a cool little place on the net huh WalkinSouth? I was thinki9ng before, how did I not find this sooner?
I got ya beat EGL... I joined the Marine Corp., to learn to feel like a real man. Haha. I also married twice and had 6 kids. I dont regret either. The Marines remain a most special and unique time in my life, and I love my kids like allll what. I wouldnt change my course in life just because of them.
Mike, your words echo my life. Very similar but not completely the same. The paradox is the same in that, to have yourself leads to isolation from society, and to have society leads to isolation from self. The only commuinity we have is our own.
The difference is... in order to feel 'normal', I isolated huge tracts of myself, real self, and built a male caricature,,, adapting male behaviors and 'values', etc. Over time- I lost the real me and thought the caricature was me. The truth though, and the end result, was feeling " dead empty " emotionally. It makes sense, how many feelings can a walking, talking, mannequin feel? I was no more alive than one of these speech recognition machines on the phones these days. Theyre begining to sound more and more llife-like, but they arent. That was my life. Dead empty.
What got me started on this whole gender thing was going back to church. I mean, the gender thing existed before, but became important when I went back to church. I accepted that I was essentially female and it was my intention to show God, no I am not a perfect person, but I can be a very good girl. Honestly, I fully expected God to give me a heart attack or something to get me OUT of his church. Haha. Was I ever surprised.... God welcomed me with joy. It was my first expereience with the real, total and pure goodness of God, all that acceptance with no hesitation at all. This is real-- this was the first real feeling of my soul and God in my life. Not dead empty.
Of course, being human, and wanting to be a good christian man, I went right back into denial and caricature. Since then though, now God is showing ME what a good girl I can be. Its amazing... like a miracle. Since then, I have found that my spirituality and connection with myself and God runs right through what feels most feminine to me.
I guess the reason I even brought up spirituality is,,, I have found that it is key to the acceptance and rejection of myself. I have a whole, very complicated story of feeling like a chick, and spiritual issues involved with my essence and the abuse and rape and all that, that led to such rejection of myself. The thing that I have found since God, is absolute acceptance without hesitation means, we dont have to isolate huge tracts of ourselves trying to be acceptable. Me? I isolated football fields of myself that, really Mike-- It is almost like God is forcing me to look at mysel, in a very kind way. So, I am.
Peace to all of you. Thanks for the warm, warm welcome.
Rck


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#159064 - 05/30/07 10:53 AM Re: Im new. Im embarrassed. [Re: reality2k4]
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
Rixx,

I hope this discussion was helpful to you and has encouraged you to make more use of the site. There is a lot to learn and talk about here and I hope you feel safe and comfortable.

Much love,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

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