How strong ARE those boys?

How about going to the DA (with your boys) and have them TELL him what he did to them. Insist that he file charges against the father, or you will start a public campaign (letter writing, public speeches) denouncing his so-called public service to your community. Call him, and set up an appointment to see him, then bring those 2 already brave kids in with you and make him listen to them. Or, instead of dragging those boys through this, bring their counselors with you and let THEM tell the DA of what they're going through!

The point is, if you can have charges pending (of an abusive nature) against him, he probably won't be able to have access to the kids until he's found not guilty.

My thoughts are with you.

OK...YOU need a better attorney! This is no arena for amatures. This is life and death!

I'd do all I can to get a pit-bull attorney on your side. One that will invoke the power of the press, the governor and shame the courts in to submission!

There has GOT to be a psycho-mean atty who instills fear in the hearts of anyone through the very mention of his name. Cant find him? Ask other attornys. THEY know who he is. Trust me on this!!

The ONE thing courts fear.........PUBLIC SCRUTINY!!!

The ONE thing the polititicans fear......PUBLIC SCRUTINY!!!

I understand and share the sentiments expressed above.

Sentiment aside, however, kidnapping is a crime in all US states, and crossing a state line makes it a federal crime. One parent can be charged with kidnapping in exactly the situations described above. It is the obligation of this site to call attention to that fact.

no, dewey, you are not correct in this assumption - only if one hides the child in violation of a court order;

it is certainly possible and legal to move one's residence; (unless in such a rare case it has been specifically stipulated under a court order signed by a judge that the person is not allowed to do so ) and if one informs the court, and as i also suggested, files in a different jurisdiction, certainly that is NOT hiding anything - it is only making it more difficult for the other party to have access.

*another option* is of course to file civil damages against him; hopefully that might also pull some weight with the court and politicians just in case there is any lingering doubt that you are not serious or the claims are not justified.

i wish you all the luck and this is all i have to say about this - there are umpteen resources on the internet to help you find a better "junkyard dog" type atty - as the guys were saying -

indy

JD's Mom,

Speaking for everyone here, I'd like to urge you to do everything WITHIN the law to protect your children. It is your duty as a mother and a member of the human race and certainly no one will fault you for it.

Indygal,

Your post is being returned to it's original content as I know you truly did not mean to advise any illegal action.

I know each poster on this thread is being very careful when offering advise that they not advise another individual to break the law.

Scorpio,

Frankly, all this sickens me and I am rather tempted to second Soapy Bubbles. Get your kids and scram out of Oklahoma. The problem is that the courts might just pursue you wherever you go.

What really blows me away is that your older son is 16 and the courts still seek to try to force reconciliation on him. So far as I know, the trend these days is to grant more and more legal rights to a boy once he reaches 16.

If this isn't the case in Oklahoma, then again, maybe the answer lies in getting out and establishing residence in another state. But seek legal advice on this one. You don't want to go from the frying pan to the fire.

Much love,
Larry

Hey! What if you got a job offer from out of state? (hint, hint), wouldn't THAT be a viable (and LEGAL) excuse to move out of state? (with the boys).

ok, well, wasn't going to say anything else but seems i am anyway....

the thing is, courts don't pursue cases like this on their own because they are too busy and overloaded already - it's the other party (in this case the sleazoid father) who is more than likely putting pressure on the court to do something.

now, a lot has been said here before about how csa is a result of a power trip and this is a situation where that really rings true -

this is *not* your typical custody battle where the parents just can't agree - this is *not* a situation where the father is being ripped from his children and really cares about them - this is, more than likely (and i'd bet a dollar on it) a case where he has put himself front and center in this court situation in order to (1) intimidate the boys (2) intimidate their mother and hopefully, not be charged w/a crime - if that's at all possible - and/or avoid them ever coming after him in the future - that is, to strike fear in their hearts (see, i still have the power over you to see you whenever i want)

by staying w/i the jurisdiction of this court, in ok, you are in a sense, also on his turf, to go ahead and take a chance on a new life elsewhere, you change the entire dynamics of the relationship, put a finality in place he cannot, and will not, be able to change, if he even bothered to try.

chances are he's such a f___up anyway he's not going to even bother trying to file for visitation rights in another state....hence it could possibly be a very good thing for your boys not to have to worry about this - or worry about having to see him again, at least in the near future.

i can only imagine what kind of internal conflict they must be experiencing now - and the possibility of having to see him up close again - jees - it boggles one's mind!!

so jd's mom - i admire your determination to try and get the laws changed after having experienced first hand their backwardness and definitely unprogressive purpose, but again, i urge you to focus on the immediate task at hand, which is to secure yourself and your family in an environment where you have more control over the situation.

there are websites which list the various laws for each state regarding statutes and childhood abuse. do some more research, talk to more attys and see what can be done should you decide to move out of state, as i suggested originally.

is it also possible your attempts at changing the laws in the here and now a way of absolving yourself of guilt - maybe because you somehow blame yourself for having married the man??

it's also worth noting he could very well wind up w/a new girlfriend/wife, one who also has children, or has more of his own, so there's another reason for him to want to silence his past victims - that could get really ugly if you were living in the same vicinity - how would you deal w/it? perhaps he might start living w/someone new who has children ? could you deal with it? would you tell her about him? and what do the courts say about this? i'd be right on top of them asking them point blank, what are you all going to do about this man as he's a danger and a menace to society...

didn't mean this to be so long it just rankles me no end what you and your boys are going thru, and this s.o.b. just walks...

all the best,
indy

Scorpio,

How are you and the kids?

Trish

Hey Everyone! Thank you for all your replies and advice! I forgot all my sign in information, so I have been trying forever to log back on!

The kids are doing good for now, thanks for asking Trish!
Here is where things stand for now; our judge gave ME a 3 year protective order (?), and wrote an order stating that my ex can not have any contact with the kids until further order of the court, except to send them letters and cards.

I know my major concern was not about child support, but (FYI) he owes the kids over $5000 in support. He cried to the judge that he has no money to live on and he is just barely scraping by himself - so the judge let it go! He did not order him to pay it!
Not that I really want it from him, but I felt that at least if he had to pay that back monthly, he might not be able to afford to take me back to court, you know?
(Now I keep having nightmares that my ex has kidnapped the boys) Everytime he feels like he has won, it just makes him more bold. I am scared of what he might do. Maybe the judge was too since he gave ME the protective order. Even that is a scarey thought!

But, it left it completely open for my ex to file an "appeal", since he has never been officially charged with anything. Believe me, Hauser, I have gone round and round with the DA - called all the legislators, the Governor, Lt. Gov., you name it I have been on their doorsteps.
But, I did not take the kids to speak with the DA in person though - I know they are strong enough to do it! I will talk to them about it and see how they feel. Thank you for that idea!
And, YES, it is rediculous for a judge to force a 16 YO to see an abusive father when he doesn't want to, but from what I have heard, it happens a lot here.

It is probably wrong of me, but I have tried to shield them from as much of this as I possibly can. I have been let down by so many people so many times, I just hate to put them through it, too.
But I do think letting them take on some of it would be good for them and it may open a few doors that are closed to me!

Anyway - I have tried to get anyone and everyone to put what is going on in the court in the spotlight, I just can't make it happen! I don't understand why everyone is so sympathetic to the abuser!!!

Indy, your advice was right on- I already had moving to different state, changing my name and home schooling the kids on my mind. Even at their ages, if the court allows my ex access to them, it is probably what I'll do.
I just have to find a "kid sympathetic" state to "get a job offer from" and go ask for their help. It seems like every other state is just as bad though.
And, right again, I do blame myself for marrying him and not "seeing the abuse" while it was happening.
I don't think I will get over the guilt until my kids are fully grown and I see that they are going to REALLY be OK.
And, I have posed the same statement to the DA about my ex being dangerous to all children and all the different scinarios that may happen without him locked-up, but it does not motivate them to do anything!

I have noticed though, that in my county, most child sexual abusers have already had many, many complaints about them before the DA arrests them. By the time they are actually arrested they have already abused hundreds of children. It is rediculous that this issue HAS BEEN in the media, but it seems like everyone just accepts it as "the way it is".

I just want to thank all of you for your help and support and let you know how much it means to me that you all care and are willing to help.
I have not gotten that anywhere else and it means so much coming from all of you, because I know you know what you are talking about. You have experienced it.

I hope that where ever you all are tonight that you are well and at peace. I'm sending you good thoughts and prayers!

Be well and keep in touch!

Michele