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#152928 - 04/26/07 03:41 PM Anger over Church abuse cover-up
reality2k4 Offline
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MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/06/04
Posts: 6838
Loc: Stuck between water, air, and ...
I am posting this story which does not show the truth of what went on.

Quote:
This perp was caught, after one of the boys he abused who is now a man, found him attending a Christian music residential course. Even as the man he is now, he was still terrified of this monster.


Quote:
"How would you feel if your first sexual experience was that of a 40yo man forcing himself upon you"


The latter is a quote from one of the three men who testified against him, and they all told of the control he had over them.

The one grim part of the story is that the papers are making out that they all lead successful lives today.
Even the cops are saying that others he abused maybe scared to come forward, or, "just put it out of their minds".

Face of a perp.

It just goes to show how ignorant even the police are, of the real effects of abuse!

Campaigners have called the Church of England's failure to tell police about an ex-choirmaster who sexually abused children "totally irresponsible".

Peter Halliday, 61, from Farnborough, Hants, was jailed for 30 months after admitting sex offences from the 1980s.

BBC News has learned he admitted the abuse 17 years ago, but left the Church quietly on condition he had no further contact with children.

Church officials say they now have "robust" child protection policies.

Halliday, who is married, was ordered to pay all three victims £2,000 each, after admitting to 10 counts of abuse at an earlier hearing at Winchester Crown Court.

He abused the boys who were in his church choir between 1985 and 1990.

Judge Ian Pearson banned Halliday from working with children and said he would be put on the Sex Offenders Register, both for life.

'Duty of care'

Bishop David Wilcox, who was among those to make the decision not to inform police of Halliday's behaviour, said it was a common way of dealing with such cases at the time.

"I believe that we sought to act in the best interests - not only of the Church, but of the family and of everybody concerned at that time," he said.


The Church can be seen to have done the best it could
The Reverend Mark Rudall

Case divides opinion

"Things were very different then. I think that we make the mistake of trying to read back what we now know and how we now do things."

But the Churches' Child Protection Advisory Service said the bishop's argument was a "red herring" and it was "well known even then" that such cases had to be reported to police.

Anti-abuse campaigner Margaret Kennedy, of the Minister and Clergy Sexual Abuse Survivors group, said the Church had a "duty of care" towards children.

"You might have wanted to be pastorally caring for the individual victim - but that meant that this guy was out there for 16 years and it's totally irresponsible."


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#152958 - 04/26/07 08:07 PM Re: Anger over Church abuse cover-up [Re: reality2k4]
Daniel Peter Offline
Guest

Registered: 04/20/07
Posts: 40
Loc: Canada
WARNING TRIGGERS!!!

You know, here's a scary way of seeing how severe the effects are:

I was an alter boy, who has, even before it all, wanted only to be a priest to help others and be closer to God. I love(d) the feel, the smell, the aura of church. I had the utmost respect for people who served God in His house, a respect I hoped one day to be worthy of. I understood that faith was good. It was my natural way of life.


A "Big Brother", who was also a Minister, raped me when I was 11 (you heard right..."NOT YET IN PUBERTY"), in the house attached to the church. Not "touched," not "had consentual sex with," and not "over a course of months or years;" though, those things do happen to others and are just as severe and serious. In my case, it was a one time, unarguably violent and abusive life-threatening act of terroism against a child too small to know what sex was. It was horrific, terrifying, and forced my childish brain to "crash." I knew, then as now, that I was about to die to be kept quiet. So, when a momentary opportunity came, I ran, screaming, out of the house, barefoot, into a Canadian winter storm.

I developed "behavioural" problems (I wouldn't listen to authority) so I was locked up for over a year in a psychiatic hospital in Toronto from 12 to 13...until signed out against their advice by a legal custodian. Ever been locked up in a cinderblock "quiet room" with a needle forced into your but cheeks so that you'll "calm down?" Or taken to a room with beds that administer "electro-shock" therapy? The hell didn't end there. Soon enough, I went to court as a child/victim/witness. He got a mistrial for inadmisable "pornography" (Deep Throat, Behind the Green Door, etcetera...it was the early 70's,) found in the room he raped me in. The Crown decided that, if he returned to Nova Scotia, they would not retry him...even though they told the newspapers they would. He disappeared (and it turned out I wasn't the only victim to step forward.) So the courts betrayed me too.

I had nightmares. Back then they were strange: green bombs, hands surrounding by glowing wires over fires to keep you alive, bodies torn apart. Standing outside the circle of the fire.

The effects?

At 13 I lived on the streets and survived. I was into all the things it takes to survive there. Jarvis street detention became "bed and breakfast." I survived until one day, I saw something pretty common there that finally hit home: a man lying on the pavement in front of a bar with his grey matter oozing out into the gutter, and I realized, I was going to die there too.

I was 18, drank heavily, hustled pool, fought, etcetera...basically gambled with life...because living doesn't matter. I had buried that horror with lesser horrors. I decided to TRY and conform.

I turned myself in for past crimes, did a little time. After a while, I joined the Army, Airbone Infantry. I became an expert marksman, as well as an expert with other weapons. I became a "MAN" by learning to kill people and break things--they "taught me" how to survive...it was a joke. Later, I would become a Naval Officer, still conforming, still trying to do right. One day, a senior officer, a trainer, betrayed my trust...and my "little" faith in the system. My daughter had been raped and I told him it was having an emotional effect on me so I needed a day or two to deal with it. He told me the Navy was "sick and tired of people like me," my records suddenly changed in their evaluations--back dated to the time of my daughters revelations. I had a breakdown. I was found medically unable to return to duty, told to go take care of my family, and given an "honourable" discharge. I accepted. Then I tried to keep up "the good fight." I became a prison guard; more control of violence and offenders...until the day I had to deal with a pedophile. During this time, the REAL effect started happening. I began to hunt my target, the predator who had made me a victim.

This is not a joke. It began as dreams/nightmares. I could kill him in my sleep in such horrific ways, like he killed my soul. I had the skills, and the motivation. I started looking for him...because the "system" sure wasn't going to do the right thing.

I tracked him and tracked him...and found the link that would be able to take me directly to him...not in Nova Scotia, like the deal said...but back home in Toronto.

It was about then that I realized--I really could do it.

It scared me, because I was cold about it. It wouldn't be wrong, it WAS the only right thing left that I could do--the day I said that to myself, is the day I knew something was wrong. I knew it wasn't really the me I knew that was doing it. There was something wrong with me, inside myself.

So I went to see a shrink.

WHAM! No more military, no more Corrections, I was the gun that was on the brink of smoking. If I hadn't sought help, I most likely would have done it (now you might know WHY some people do.)

Today, six years later, I live with nightmares, devastating flashbacks, all kinds of lifes death and destruction experiences all tied up in knots, that they don't dare undo, because "I" could unravel. I'm diagnosed Severe Chronic PTSD with delayed onset (my childish brain seems to have kicked back in) and a multiple personality disorder (the surviving kid trying to take charge again.) I see a shrink pretty regularly, the VA covers the extra expense. I receive a disability pension to stop me from trying to go back to my trade, but it feels like your tax dollars being spent to protect the guy from me wasting him...or people like him. I take medication to control myself, and every now and then I try to commit suicide because I'm so ashamed of myself, what I've become, what I did or didn't do--for not being strong enough to stop him, and, sometimes, for not having the courage to have killed him. I have migraines, an inability to concentrate and focus to achieve things in life, no trust for ANYONE, NO SEX LIFE even though I'm married (as long as that will last) and NO CHURCH will EVER accept a guy like me for the priesthood.

So I lost my life, and was perfectly prepared to take another. I have a psychiatric disorder that society will end up carrying the cost of because I'm too dangerous to go back to work with offenders or to use issued weapons. I take legal drugs to control myself, so I'm NOT living a real life. I lost my first ever dream of being a priest, and then I lost the career of control of violence I was left with. I lived through my daughters rape and subsequent suicide, and the almost overpowering urge, everyday, to do the right thing and hunt down these evil bastards, these spawn of Satan, that the government and the churches are SO willing to let disappear, rather than face a question of indirectly (or directly)allowing it, or not taking sufficient measures to prevent it, or for not taking it seriously.

So, how serious do YOU, the reader of my diatribe, think the crime should be treated?

Oh...don't worry. That pedophile "man of God" died of natural causes, oddly enough, about six years ago right about the time I broke down, (So either God was protecting me again, or that #@cker found a way to betray me again by dying before I could kill him.)

I'm not a threat to anyone anymore. I'm crippled up from arthritus from jumping out of perfectly good airplanes and sleeping in mud puddles, I stick to my medications, and the VA and mental health have created a very effective safety net that I can count on BEFORE I start slipping. I'm out of shape, overweight, and too racked by emotions to be an effective killing machine anymore.

That monster from hell stole my life, and killed my soul. Should it be punished any differently than physical murder?

So what do guys like me think when we hear: "we acted in the best interest of the church...or the family...or the child...by moving them." What do we think when we learn that the church or the government was complicit by hiding it. What do we think when the courts treat it so trivial. What do we think when we hear "priests don't do that," "it's not THAT serious," "they must have enjoyed it," "look at them, they're gay." What do we think? Personally, I think I hate society, living in it. I think I've been betrayed all my life. I think no one will protect me, so I have to protect myself. I think, since everyone else is making excuses for them, I'll have to stop them myself....and then I take a pill, call my shrink, and go to the hospital. I'm a bad guy now.

Jeez...it's not Tthat serious...is it?

(notice how we treat those who kill their predators...and how we relegate those who stop themselves to the fringes of poverty stricken society?)

When will it EVER be treated seriously?

Daniel Peter

_________________________
He who dies with the most toys...loses them all when he dies.

He who dies having fed and cared for his brother, wins in the eyes of God...and the hearts of his brothers.

He who dies but didn't ride...well...he didn't really live anyway!

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#152961 - 04/26/07 09:22 PM Re: Anger over Church abuse cover-up [Re: Daniel Peter]
Nobbynobs Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 06/26/05
Posts: 1286
Loc: Toronto
Sounds like you have the answer right here in your post:

"He who dies having fed and cared for his brother, wins in the eyes of God...and the hearts of his brothers."

_________________________
When you go up to the bell, ring it! Or don't go up to the bell.

- Mel Brooks

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#153032 - 04/27/07 10:02 AM Re: Anger over Church abuse cover-up [Re: reality2k4]
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
Originally Posted By: reality2k4
Bishop David Wilcox, who was among those to make the decision not to inform police of Halliday's behaviour, said it was a common way of dealing with such cases at the time.

"I believe that we sought to act in the best interests - not only of the Church, but of the family and of everybody concerned at that time," he said.


What's amazing is that some people actually believe this tosh. Thank goodness for the enlightened present day...each of those abused boys got £2,000. Grrrrrrrrrrr.

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

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#153034 - 04/27/07 10:06 AM Re: Anger over Church abuse cover-up [Re: roadrunner]
Nobbynobs Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 06/26/05
Posts: 1286
Loc: Toronto
I'm reading a very good article right now about the sex abuse scandal in the Catholic Church and how the Vatican reacted. It is written from an objective "here are the politics behind the decision" perspective. When I'm finished I'll try to share my thoughts on it here.

_________________________
When you go up to the bell, ring it! Or don't go up to the bell.

- Mel Brooks

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#153035 - 04/27/07 10:09 AM Re: Anger over Church abuse cover-up [Re: Nobbynobs]
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
That would be great Nobs. I have never seen anything from the Church establishment's own perspective.

Much love,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

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#153036 - 04/27/07 10:14 AM Re: Anger over Church abuse cover-up [Re: roadrunner]
Nobbynobs Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 06/26/05
Posts: 1286
Loc: Toronto
It's actually by a reporter who works for the National Catholic Register in the US. He is very well known for taking a balanced and intelligent view of Vatican politics. It will be nice to see a perspective that tries to explain the reality of what happened without over-simplifying the matter like so many of the other analyses do.

_________________________
When you go up to the bell, ring it! Or don't go up to the bell.

- Mel Brooks

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#153041 - 04/27/07 10:38 AM Re: Anger over Church abuse cover-up [Re: Nobbynobs]
jamie' Offline
Guest

Registered: 03/09/07
Posts: 125
Loc: Ont, Can
But in the end isnt it a matter of the church knowing there were active pedophiles, and choosing not to report them.

Its funny, if the church did start turning in these people then thay could A: Actully call themselves men of god without it being BS. And B: Have some credibility beyond followers of their own faith.

Otherwise i'd think its forseeable that one day someone tells the pope to shut up when he speaks out on something and the churches following declines until its little more then a cult of pedophilic sadists.

_________________________
No matter how long and dark the night is, Or the fear and hurt that it can bring, there will always be a dawn, where we can push the past aside and move forward with hope.

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#153042 - 04/27/07 10:39 AM Re: Anger over Church abuse cover-up [Re: Nobbynobs]
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
In the bookshop we have begun including headings that refer the beginner to the book(s) we think he ought to look at first. Under Clargy Abuse I would be happy to refer readers to whatever you think does an effective accurate job of explaining the Catholic Church's take on the whole situation, so as to get both sides of the story.

Much love,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

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#153052 - 04/27/07 10:58 AM Re: Anger over Church abuse cover-up [Re: roadrunner]
Nobbynobs Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 06/26/05
Posts: 1286
Loc: Toronto
Larry,

The book is called "All the Pope's Men." So far it's pretty good. The author has a very solid grasp of politics and he does an extremely good job explaining how the Church works. Like I said, I'll post my thoughts when I'm done the chapter on child abuse.

_________________________
When you go up to the bell, ring it! Or don't go up to the bell.

- Mel Brooks

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#153133 - 04/27/07 10:56 PM Re: Anger over Church abuse cover-up [Re: Nobbynobs]
Daniel Peter Offline
Guest

Registered: 04/20/07
Posts: 40
Loc: Canada
(I wonder if Catholic Family Services would be interested in helping get my retreat/campground idea off the ground? I'll have to google them I think.)

I'm a little leary of reading the book you're talking about. It sounds as though it could give insight, but I'm wondering about bias. Did you say it was written by a reporter FOR a Catholic newsletter/newspaper? If you're reading it, are you seeing a slant? Is the author using critical reasoning skills properly...or faulty premises, ingrained assumptions, semantics, etcetera. I imagine a Catholic reporter might display a bias, but is it strong? I don't want to waste money on propaganda, (Maybe I'm just too cynical,) but would VERY much like to hear "why" decisions were made...to see if there was something more than an absence of thought for the victims to account for the choices the church (churches) made.

Oh, Nobby, re: my earlier post, you noted that the answer was in my "signature" about how to win in the eyes of God. You're absolutely right. If only I could HOLD that thought all the time. I just wish this multi-personality thing would stop making burn those bridges and destroying the healing process for both of me! I know the answer, I'm just in a world of constant tug-of-war between me, the pro-active educated thinker, and me, the street-kid, chip-on-the-shoulder, lazy, low-life, survivor-at-all-cost, who'd rather kick back with Harley's, beer, a toot, and say FTW! I'm in a permanent war with myself, so I never make it anywhere. Notice how the signature ended?

(Freaky way to put it, eh?)

_________________________
He who dies with the most toys...loses them all when he dies.

He who dies having fed and cared for his brother, wins in the eyes of God...and the hearts of his brothers.

He who dies but didn't ride...well...he didn't really live anyway!

Top
#153140 - 04/27/07 11:30 PM Re: Anger over Church abuse cover-up [Re: Daniel Peter]
Nobbynobs Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 06/26/05
Posts: 1286
Loc: Toronto
edited...gonna rewrite this



Edited by Nobbynobs (04/27/07 11:31 PM)
_________________________
When you go up to the bell, ring it! Or don't go up to the bell.

- Mel Brooks

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#153159 - 04/28/07 02:35 AM Re: Anger over Church abuse cover-up [Re: Nobbynobs]
skingraph Offline
Guest

Registered: 03/24/07
Posts: 39
Even though the catholic church never touched me while i attended it,its just as friggen as guilty as rest of the bastards.Thats why i'll never attend another religion again,its either money,sex,or control,might aswell worship Satan.


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#153164 - 04/28/07 03:58 AM Re: Anger over Church abuse cover-up [Re: skingraph]
reality2k4 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/06/04
Posts: 6838
Loc: Stuck between water, air, and ...
Lets face it, this perp was only caught because he was on a residential course in religious study.
He was left, by the church to go on to abuse others.

In other words, the church are complicit with his behaviour by not exposing him.
These are the things the church do to open themselves up to being sued for millions.

This perp would still be free to teach kids if this man had not had a chance meeting many years hence.
How many kids has he abused through the decades of him being free to do so? I can only guess.

Hopefully, more will come forward, and the church will be sued for its inaction of these terrible crimes against it, by another, "man of God".

ste


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#153167 - 04/28/07 05:31 AM Re: Anger over Church abuse cover-up [Re: reality2k4]
reality2k4 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/06/04
Posts: 6838
Loc: Stuck between water, air, and ...
Quote:
The Archbishop of Canterbury, Dr Rowan Williams, has expressed his deep sorrow over the suffering experienced in child abuse cases involving the Church of England after a former choirmaster was sentenced to two-and-a-half years in prison this week for abusing boys in his care.

Peter Halliday, 62, formerly a choirmaster in Farnborough, Hampshire, admitted indecently assaulting boys under his care between 1985 and 1990. He was sentenced by Winchester Crown Court to two-and-a-half years in jail on Thursday and ordered to pay £2,000 to each of his three victims.

Dr Williams said that the Church had developed greater awareness and expertise, and had stringent procedures in place, but that vigilance was crucial.

“Any case in which the Church has failed to prove itself a safe place for children is deplorable. This is one such case, and we can only express our keen awareness of the damage and deep sorrow for the suffering caused."

The Church of England was strongly criticised for failing to report the abuse to police when church authorities were first made aware by the parents of one victim in 1990.

Halliday was instead told he should leave quietly and agree that he would have no more contact with young children. He went on, however, to work with young boys when he became a singer in the Royal School of Church Music.

Independent Christian charity, the Churches Child Protection Advisory Service, said the Church of England had “seriously mishandled” the situation, criticising in particular the Church’s failure to notify police of the abuse and to remedy previous inaction when it later implemented its child protection programme.

“It is also misleading to suggest that there was only one opportunity to act in this case,” said the CCPAS. “The introduction a few years later of the Church of England's child protection policy and their training programme should have highlighted to those concerned the inappropriateness of actions previously taken and this should have resulted in a different response.” The Archbishop of Canterbury said: “The principle that the welfare of the child must always take priority has sometimes been misunderstood to mean that a child should not be put through the distress of public legal procedures. It appears to me that this misunderstanding may have been involved in this instance."

He said that in the period since the abuse took place, the Church of England had developed greater expertise and implemented "far more stringent procedures".

"This does not help victims of an earlier era, but the awareness of the cost they have borne is something that underlines the imperative need to keep all our procedures in the strictest working order," he said.

The Diocese of Guildford expressed regret and sadness over the child abuse by Halliday but said it was “completely satisfied” with the way it had handled the abuse charges at the time.

“Church officers at every level acted in good faith in accordance in what they perceived to be in the best interests of child and family - at that time, in that setting - before the law and government guidelines were as they are today,” said diocesan spokesman, the Rev Mark Rudall.

He added that child protection policy within the Church of England was under constant review and expressed his hope that Halliday’s sentencing today had provided “some kind of closure for what must have been many years of background distress to their lives”.

In a statement released Thursday, the Church of England reaffirmed its commitment “to the safeguarding, care and nurture of the children within our community” and offered reassurances that those working with children are properly vetted by police.

"We respond without delay to every complaint made, that a child or young person for whom we are responsible may have been harmed, and fully co-operate with statutory agencies during any investigation they make into allegations concerning a member of the church community,” it said.






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#153193 - 04/28/07 10:55 AM Re: Anger over Church abuse cover-up [Re: reality2k4]
shadowkid Offline
WARNING from ModTeam, September 2013: user "Shadowkid" was exposed as a hoaxer. His entire online persona and stories of sexual abuse were fiction. We encourage you not to become emotionally concerned by anything you see in any of his posts. Thank you
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/18/05
Posts: 2437
why not cover up abuse?the church is one giant lie anyway ,its about control ,why do you think we are called sheep? we are all part of gods flock . lambs being led to slaughter thinking all the time that heaven is real

_________________________
its not hard to fall
when you float like a cannonball - damien rice

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#153195 - 04/28/07 10:56 AM Re: Anger over Church abuse cover-up [Re: shadowkid]
shadowkid Offline
WARNING from ModTeam, September 2013: user "Shadowkid" was exposed as a hoaxer. His entire online persona and stories of sexual abuse were fiction. We encourage you not to become emotionally concerned by anything you see in any of his posts. Thank you
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/18/05
Posts: 2437
if the vatican sold one one thousadnth of the stuff they have world hunger could be stopped with the money they made

_________________________
its not hard to fall
when you float like a cannonball - damien rice

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