Fanta,

It's rough getting used to all this, and it just makes it worse when there's a toxic person hovering over the whole business. Don't beat up on yourself or blame yourself thinging you could have seen this or done that - as the saying goes, hindsight is always 20/20. I think the only way we learn this stuff is through experience.

Much love,
Larry

Fanta,

A further thought occurred to me this morning:



This strikes me as a great example of a master user and manipulator at work. See how he's managed to turn HIS problem with his PC into a much larger issue, something that you and your bf will get sucked into and argue about? The argument continues on its own momentum without further effort by him; all he has to do is start it! He knows how easily he gets under your skin.

Much love,
Larry

HG:

Thank you for your words of encouragement and advice. It's true. He has a terrible time saying no to people. It's something he has mentioned to me that he's working on. He said he's trying to stand up for himself, but it's not easy. I am one of the few he ever says no to, about anything. I have recognized his need to be able to say no, to at least someone. We don't have any major relationship issues, so when he says no, i can totaly respect that in most cases. Actually, when he does stand his grown w/ me I feel like he has trust in me. He knows i'm not going to manipulate him or put pressure on him. I am proud of the progress he has made over the past few years and the leaps and bounds he has made over this past year.

Larry,

Boy, does he. I need to let it go when he does it, i really do. It ends up making me seem like I'm being the instigator, the bad guy. I'm still trying to figure out the best way for me to deal w/ this toxic person while still being supportive to my bf. It upsets my bf because i reject this man, but he says he totaly understands. If it were not him in that situation he would feel how i feel. I guess it's the same with almost any abusive relationship, like abusive marriages. People stay in them out of familiarity, but can see what damage it does in other people's relationships. In their own they rationalize to make their situation not seem that bad. I just have to remember: baby steps. It's going to take time.

Fanta,

I think the trick will be to find a way to disempower him and his tricks. By that I mean find a way to respond that keeps you at a safe distance, removes your relationship with your bf from the equation, and denies him the conflagration he's looking for.

I know! A classic example of "Easier said than done". But at least it's a clear agenda. What do you think?

Much love,
Larry

Larry:

I just don't know how to do that. It has happened, in a way, because my bf spends very little time at the house. in the past few months he has only been there to sleep (which i am there w/ him until he falls asleep) and he's there in the AM when he wakes up to go to work, showers, etc. After work he is always with me (except on wednesdays, he stays home to do wash, etc). Last wed my bf and I had plans, then last min Tues night my bf said "my "dad" was complaining about my room, so I think I'm going to stay home tomorrow after all, clean it up, do my wash". My bf pays rent to live there, has almost no privacy (ff complained about his room because when bf is not home, ff will go in there and empty trash,etc), I am not allowed by ff to stay the night, bf does not eat there, really all he does there is sleep, shower, and do wash. OK, where am I going w/ this? I guess I'm just venting because of the sneaky control this man has. I did not put up a fight that night, but I was really fumeing on the inside. I don't know how to apporoach this, I really don't. It's a GREAT idea, I just don't know how to win this battle. I don't say anything directly to FF,ever. But I'm sure he knows when he's annoyed me because my bf will say stuff (for example: when we were on the phone durring the PC discussion he openly defended the situation and said he wasn't b-ing, etc. I don't know how FF couldn't have heard it. My bf said that I have no idea how much he limits his conversations w/ ff and how much he has tried to elimitate his contact w/ him (best he can considering the living arrangements). I know he has, I guess I'm just wanting more. Wanting this person to go away, to stop poisioning my bf, to just leave him alone once and for all. I sometimes feel powerless.

Dear Fantagrl,
Ah, powerlessness. That's a familiar feeling!
I do think there is such a thing as emotional contagion, and so I think that we as survivors/allies are often especially at risk of feeling powerless. It's a carryover, likely, from that same overwhelming sense of inability to control our lives that has beset the survivors, and the allies who are attuned definitely pick up on that feeling. But, in a sense, we allies are -relatively- powerless here too: it's not our trauma to resolve and integrate, and so we cannot be in charge of how the recovery develops. A hard reality, absolutely.
So, for me, the best way to address it is to take care of my own business as consistently as I can, without being sucked into the drama. Now, there are certainly areas of my life where I feel +/- powerless anyway, regardless of my relationship issues, and so there's always plenty else for me to work on!
We all here have encouraged each other along those lines many times, but it almost can't be said enough. If we attend to our own baggage, that's much better than trying to take on anyone else's.
This is a particularly good week for me to be reminding myself of that, many, many times over: my BF and I have a really intense couple weeks of deadlines, some of which are really crucial. He does not have a good track record of taking care of business in a timely way, so I am definitely worried about his ability not to get all tangled up in his old avoidance tactics. But, it's not in his or my best interest to nag him to do anything different right now. Instead, I am praying a lot and tending my own garden! And offering sincere words of praise and encouragement to him when I have the chance.
It occurs to me that a birth metaphor is relevant here. (For those of you who haven't birthed children or personally witnessed that, I ask your imagination.) There comes a time in labor when the mother is convinced she can't do it. In truth, something will happen: she'll push the baby out on her own; she'll have a c-section; or she'll die. Fortunately, here and now, the third possibility almost never happens. But even then, there's no stopping the process, because birth means change.
I think of certain stretches of recovery as resembling this. It seems impossible to continue; we're at our last drop of energy; no respite is in sight. And yet, somehow, almost always, we muddle on. (The only short-circuit to the process of recovery is also death--unfortunately, something that is less rare than death in childbirth.) Where there is life, there is hope. Where there is hope, there is the possibility of progress.
You can't know when he'll figure things out. All you can do is hope for the best, and take care of your own life with joy and enthusiasm in the meantime. That's a good way (not coincidentally) to recapture your own sense of efficacy.

Peace,
HG

HG:

Thanks. I'm pretty good at not getting lost in this whole thing. It's just at times, considering the situation, I feel a little lost. It's really difficult to watch someone you love being manipulated, and to not say anything about it. It seems that when I do it's kind of a lose/lose situation. I know he's going to have to do that part of it on his own, with the exception of me being there for support. It's just not easy at times. I'm glad you're here to help. I liked your analogy, btw: birth, good example.

'My bf said that I have no idea how much he limits his conversations w/ ff and how much he has tried to elimitate his contact w/ him (best he can considering the living arrangements). I know he has, I guess I'm just wanting more.'

I think the answer is in what you've said above. He's doing his best but he's doing it slower than you'd wish. I think patience on your behalf is all that's required and he'll make the break eventually.
SB x

Thank you SB. I needed a bit of reasurance. I do, i recognize his efforts. I have witnessed how much he puts into taking steps forward. I am patient, for him, but internally it's an entirely different story at times.