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#151668 - 04/19/07 07:41 AM Re: Media Headache Coming? [Re: Still]
melliferal Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/03/05
Posts: 1159
No, guys - there were all kinds of signs, certainly, but people saw them. His students and even some of his teachers were so afraid of him, he was even removed from one of his classes. Everyone knew there was something wrong with this guy. He didn't just "snap" one day; he was ALWAYS like this.

The problem here isn't that "nobody noticed", the problem is that nobody could do anything about it. What could anyone have done? He was ordered by a court to undergo therapy, but he didn't. He was asked to stay away from people who were scared of him, but he wouldn't. Until someone does something illegal, nobody can force him to do anything or restrict his freedoms in any way.

I personally see no compelling reason to think this guy was a CSA survivor. And even if he was, I refuse to have any empathy for him - for one, because he's dead; for another, because he crossed the line. Right now he's nothing but a murderer; to try and relate to him by considering that he might've been a CSA survivor is too close to trying to make an excuse for him. In any case, he made clear on his tape to NBC to whom all his rage was leveled; he says not a word about abusers or pedophiles.

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#151673 - 04/19/07 08:20 AM Re: Media Headache Coming? [Re: melliferal]
Nobbynobs Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 06/26/05
Posts: 1286
Loc: Toronto
I'm with you Mel. So what if he was a CSA survivor. It's no excuse to hurt or kill other people.

In any case, there are several mental conditions that have symptoms similar to PTSD (PTSD being the "characteristic" CSA condition) so his actions could have been as a result of delusional thinking, or any number of other non-CSA related causes.

Or maybe, as a good therapist friend of mine puts it, he was just outright crazy. Some people are so far gone that it is impossible to unravel their stories or even come up with a diagnosis of their condition.

_________________________
When you go up to the bell, ring it! Or don't go up to the bell.

- Mel Brooks

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#151697 - 04/19/07 12:16 PM Re: Media Headache Coming? [Re: Nobbynobs]
jamie' Offline
Guest

Registered: 03/09/07
Posts: 125
Loc: Ont, Can
Its classic that the public need to know why. Why did they do it, what led them there ect. Cho killed himself and not much was known so people jump to conclusions based on the smallest bits of information. People like those psychiatrist and Nobs friend make at best, valid psychological profiles by disecting single traits and fitting them into the DSM-IV. Public starts pointing fingers based on that or jumping to their own conclusions. And we are here talking about it, because people want to know why. He was troubled obviously, but alot of people are. And being troubled in itself is no excuse for a shooting rampage that ends in suicide. I'm troubled and i'd take a guess that a few of you are aswell. If any of us decided to go out and shoot a bunch on people i'd be positive CSA would be brought up once it was over, whether it was related to the reason or not that one snapped. It would just make the public feel better at knowing there was a cause. Then bringing up political issues to say that it could have been avoided...and a tragic event becomes a one or a groups political platform.

Also consider the idea that had cho been stopped after the first incident this wouldnt of hardly made any news. Nobody would have cared. Or been interested in why it happened. And its stuff like that which is so troubling about society. I'm also sure theres cho fansites up about now aswell.And after seeing the pictures and stuff he sent to the news i'm more convinced he was attempting to be a martyr. And provide all these disturbing/interesting articles so he could be studied. So he wouldnt be forgotten. Troubled is as best a diagnosis there will get. Anything more detailed from a psychological point of view requires face time. Real interaction for a proper diagnosis. And there would of been no preventing it, even with psychiatric care. Plus being weird isnt a cause for hospitalization.

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No matter how long and dark the night is, Or the fear and hurt that it can bring, there will always be a dawn, where we can push the past aside and move forward with hope.

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#151712 - 04/19/07 02:45 PM Re: Media Headache Coming? [Re: Still]
runaround Offline
New Here

Registered: 04/05/07
Posts: 3
I can appreciate other abuse survivors not wanting to feel unfairly attacked by the media for Chos chosen actions. Its probably like the south Korean community not wanting to be blamed as well. Even if Cho was abused as a child, like I think he was, that has nothing to do with this community of survivors.

Like the Korean community, there are way too many in this survivor community who dont go onto commit horrendous crimes that any correlation by the media is just ignorance, which may have to be addressed through education. So far, I dont see any media types blaming adult male survivors as a group.

The group I see the media going after is Chos other community, the gun owners group, which is something that we as a society have some control over and can do something about.


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#151715 - 04/19/07 03:04 PM Re: Media Headache Coming? [Re: runaround]
reality2k4 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/06/04
Posts: 6838
Loc: Stuck between water, air, and ...
What he did was nothing about being abused, it was about a fantasist who had set the play for a bloodbath.
Its not the work of a madman who just lost it, but a carefully
planned attack and eventual suicide.

He was isolated by others who he saw as enemies, because they did not like, and indeed were scared of his plays.
You see how he blames society for his fate.
This is the work of a psychopath, a bomb waiting to go off.

He has probably planned this since Columbine, and thought he would be seen as some 'hero' to all the other sickos who would do similar things.
There simply is NO acceptable answer for what he did.

Maybe they should not have shown the videos so soon, but it shows that he was in control of the whole event and it was all planned.
Why? Did the police move away from the campus to find the killer!
There should have been a lock down, and the cops should have searched the scene without diversion.

It was one big cockup by the cops, and interestingly, the gun lobby is pretty quiet,

ste


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#151759 - 04/19/07 06:18 PM Re: Media Headache Coming? [Re: Still]
Lloydy Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 04/17/02
Posts: 7071
Loc: England Shropshire
Great link Nobby'

Dave

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Go confidently in the direction of your dreams! Live the life you've imagined. As you simplify your life, the laws of the universe will be simpler.
Henry David Thoreau

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#151774 - 04/19/07 07:23 PM Re: Media Headache Coming? [Re: Lloydy]
Trish4850 Offline
BoD Liaison Emeritus
MaleSurvivor<

Registered: 10/15/05
Posts: 3280
Loc: New Jersey
For an indivdual to have no empathy whatsoever for others or even himself is the exception to every rule of humanity. I wish he was alive so we could find some answers but at the same time, I'm very glad he's dead.

Trish

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If you fall down 10 times, Stand up 11.

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#151802 - 04/19/07 10:31 PM Re: Media Headache Coming? [Re: melliferal]
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
Melliferal,

Originally Posted By: melliferal
I personally see no compelling reason to think this guy was a CSA survivor. And even if he was, I refuse to have any empathy for him - for one, because he's dead; for another, because he crossed the line. Right now he's nothing but a murderer; to try and relate to him by considering that he might've been a CSA survivor is too close to trying to make an excuse for him. In any case, he made clear on his tape to NBC to whom all his rage was leveled; he says not a word about abusers or pedophiles.


I agree with you 100%. There are SO many survivors - the vast majority - who don't come even close to violence against others in their reactions to what was done to them as boys. IF he was a victim of CSA at one point that doesn't give him a pass to commit murder. As you say, that's all he is now, a murderer.

Much love,
Larry

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Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

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#151809 - 04/19/07 11:07 PM Re: Media Headache Coming? [Re: roadrunner]
Nobbynobs Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 06/26/05
Posts: 1286
Loc: Toronto
deleted. Just realised this is the public forum. I'll repost this on the private side.



Edited by Nobbynobs (04/19/07 11:12 PM)
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When you go up to the bell, ring it! Or don't go up to the bell.

- Mel Brooks

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#151851 - 04/20/07 10:31 AM Re: Media Headache Coming? [Re: Nobbynobs]
tartugas Offline
Board Member
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 02/11/07
Posts: 513
Loc: NYC
A couple of things...

First, I have not seen enough evidence to determine one way or another whether or not Cho was abused. In part this is because I have chosen to avoid a lot of the media hype surrounding this incident because the grief and horror we all feel, and the media plays up, get in the way of cool headed evaluation of the facts.

Secondly, I just want to point out that it's very easy for people to "see" similarities in almost everyone they look at. The girl who seems to be crying on the train next to you could be feeling sad for any number of reasons; the person passing you on the street whose face is stern must be angry, but perhaps he's just won the lottery is trying ot contain his excitement. The point is our first reaction to seeing something outside ourselves is to compare it to ourselves for reference. Therefore I would be very cautious about saying that I was sure Cho was abused because I can relate in such and such a way to his experessions of pain. Until and unless you have the chance to talk to and really get to know someone, it's very easy to be deceived about who they truly are.

Lastly, I really really really really really really really really really cannot stand any mention of abuse, or his victimhood relating to this tragedy. In the rush to make sense of a senseless act of violence, the knee-jerk reaction of everyone is to search for reasons why any human being could be so cut off from a basic sense of morality, could be so depraved and indifferent about themselves and their fellow man. All we can say is that this person was broken, in a terrible, horrific, and absolute way. Anything that happened to him (abuse, exposure to violent messages in the same media that now seeks to explain him, and/or social rejection) were merely influences that all worked to subtly shift him fuirther and further away from "healthy" or at the very least "delusional but not psychotic" to "murderous savage". No one thing pushed him over the edge, and anyone who points to any influence be it abuse, violence, or rejection misses the truth by a wide mark and promotes an ignorant bias that only serves to further stimatize those who struggle and conquer the self-same challenges on a daily basis.

What made him do it? Something tragically flawed inside Cho himself. Why did this have to happen? Because Cho never asked for the help he needed so desperately. That's all anyone can safely say about this without making life harder on those who struggle to overcome our own emotional challenges. How can you stop a madman like this? The terrible truth is that there may simply be no way to stop this kind of psychosis. Any attempt to "save future lives" by stigmatizing victims, in the hopes of preventing them from turning into future Cho's will only serve to make healing that much harder for the victims, and do nothing to encourage the others among the suffering masses to step forward and ask ho0nestly and hopefully for the help and healing they so desperately need.



Edited by tartugas (04/20/07 10:32 AM)
_________________________
"I am not a mechanism, an assembly of various sections.
And it is not because the mechanism is working wrongly, that I am ill.
I am ill because of wounds to the soul, to the deep emotional self...."
Healing D.H. Lawrence

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