Dear Survivors, Moderators and Ken Singer in particular:

Hey Gentlemen..

My name is TaylorWayne. I had submitted a post dealing with what I am discovering about myself through this site titled: I think some changes are on the horizon for me . Ken, you and a few others were very kind to post replys with some tough insightful questions I had to ask myself. I felt a serious light bulb come on yet again when I read your post to Logan today titled: Am I loosing it?

I have a problem with watching mens crotches, not women, just men. I have not been an equal opportunity crotch watcher. I touched on this point in my post and you mentioned it in your latest post. The third paragraph started out with this sentence: Sometimes the victim becomes fixated on penises. I have this problem. I am clear it began with my abuse event, but as I have tried to dismiss it and grow up away from the habit, the problem has been a painfully persistent one and has seemed to have associated itself with my deep longings to experience a man who would truly make himself vulnerable to me in a good way. After a couple of decades, this thing seems to be like my shadow and mutates along with whatever lack of intimacy need I might have and presents itself as a medicator for that need. This penis search is usually the first step in a 6 week (usually) downward slide that ends up in some kind of attempt to act out, some successful other not successful, but always the attempt. My need is for real intimacy. I know in my head intimacy is a heart quality, not a penis quality. I can not figure out any healthy way to not feel the need to check out every other guy and look at every mans crotch. I am almost certain the problem is fed because of some insecurities or jealousies. In your post to me you recommended seeing a therapist. I checked the MS resources and I did not see one listed for Houston, but will keep looking through other sources. This is a dumb question, but I must ask. Is there anything I can do or start doing that can begin to reverse this behavior? Any words of wisdom at all would be appreciated and applied!

Thanks Many Times Over!

TaylorWayne

TaylorWayne:
I've contacted a friend in Austin to find out if he knows of anyone in Houston (he's a therapist who specializes in male survivors). I will let you know if he comes up with a name.

The short words of wisdom at this point is don't act out on the impulse. Know that it is a vestige of old abuse issues and it will be resolved with some work with a therapist in that area.

Ken

Taylor,

This kind of fixation doesn't surprise me at all. Or at least, it doesn't when I think back to my boyhood and how much having a penis confused and tormented me. I thought this is what's betraying me when he touches me, this is what attracts the abuser, and if it weren't for this I would be safe and happy.

And once I hit puberty it all seemed to get so much worse. My Dad had given me "the talk" by then, but I still wondered is all this happening to me down there because the abuse is making it happen.

Your post gives me a lot to think about, that's for sure. I remember checking out guys for a long time too, but in my case it was out of insecurity and fear rather than desire. Anyway, as usual, and as Ken has already said, this is yet another example of how abuse issues can continue to distort our behavior and thinking long after the abuse itself has ended.

Much love,
Larry

Hi Ken:

Thank you so much for the advice. And thanks for checking on counselors for me. I just moved to Houston from Malibu California about 1 year ago. What a shock. Houston has been great for my company, but what a culture shock. I am surprised for a city this size there are so few counselors who work in the area of male sexual abuse.

Thanks again!

:-) TaylorWayne

.

Selene,

I was going to say this in my last post on this thread, but I thought it might be too much. By the age of 14 I felt like I was nothing more than a life-support system for a mouth, a penis, and a butt. I was utterly sexualized, in the sense that I didn't see value in any other aspect of myself. I wished I wasn't a boy, but not in the sense of wishing I were a girl - I just wished I wasn't a boy.

The confusion was incredible. I hated going through puberty because the abuser would go nuts over every new hair and sign of growth (he had me from age 10 to 14), and I can't begin to guess how many times I cried because the first time I came was with him. BUT...yes, I enjoyed the orgasms, even though I hated knowing that I would have one - again.

Out of all this devastation came a kid who saw himself as just a sexual plaything and regarded other boys in the same way. This is the age of raging hormones, mind you, so day in and day out you see other boys with uncontrolled erections and so on. For me this was a sign of incredible danger. I wondered who's "doing" them, and if I let them be my friend would they do the same thing to me that the abuser had done. I gradually withdrew from almost all my friends, and though I continued in the Scout troop, I kept all the other boys at arm's length emotionally. I felt like an empty shell with no real "Larry" left inside it.

There was only one other boy I really trusted and was close to, and guess what? He had been abused with me for a year.

Much love,
Larry

TaylorWayne,

I'm in the same boat you are. I'm glad you posted.

TaylorWayne,
It is definitely not unusual. I find myself doing the same thing. After years of doing this I have found that it just one in thousands of symtoms of abuse. As long as I don't act on it I feel okay. But when I 'act out' every 5 years or so it has devestating affects.
By ther way, I grew up in the Clear Lake area of Houston,

Sometimes I think it is a habit I've got to break...other times I just try to pass it off as a part of my "abuse" scar...other times it's a way to just pass the time while at other times I just get sick and tired of doing it!! But all in all, I've learned to live with my "scars" and those I could get rid of by "psychic plastic surgery" I will get rid of. Hope this helped, guys!!

As Ken said, this in no way means you need to act out!! I recognize it as a deeper rooted issue and have never found the impulse or need to act on it. Therapy might help you get a better handle on it, though!!

Howard

TaylorWayne,

I don’t really have any magical solutions, but I often find its reassuring to know I’m not alone in how I feel and get affected by the abuse. That struck home with a couple of replies you’ve already had in this post.

What I want to do is add a “me too” response to a couple of posts in particular. I could type out what they said and say “me too” but they put it as best as I could anyway. I wanted to thank the guys below for what they said:



and



I hope that seeing other people – other than yourself helps you in knowing you’re not going crazy or that you’re some sicko. This is residual carnage from our abuse. We hate it but it’s there anyway. Hopefully it gets better to cope with.

My T said one day, and you have to hear this in context, that CSA is like “the gift that keeps on giving”. Except it’s not a nice gift and nobody asked for it, wanted it, and if given the choice, this in one gift you’d get rid of right away. Problem is we can’t. The wrapping paper got stuck to us. What I’m trying to do with a “magic marker” is colour in the wrapping paper and make something new, different, and hopefully better out of what was ‘bestowed’ upon me.

I have the same issue. I remember bringing it up with a T a long time ago and I felt very ashamed. My friend has a name for it but I wont share it unless you guys really want me to because it's pretty triggering.

I don't worry about it so much anymore, but I do think it is a result of the abuse. I remember being infatuated with everyones penises after the abuse. It was like that was the only thing I was interested in from them.

cbfull,

I think it's useful to remember that an abused boy is being sexualized in a hugely traumatic way and may not even realize that what is happening to him is sexual. That was my experience anyway; I was two years into abuse before it occurred to me that the things that were happening were sexual acts.

But the boy sure is aware that these acts are focusing on his penis and that of the abuser. No wonder the penis fascinates him and attracts his attenton later on, even if he doesn't want sexual contact. It just goes to show - yet again - how totally abuse can devastate a boy's boundaries and distort how he relates to others.

Much love,
Larry

Wonderful insight, exceptional advice... as well as tons of Triggers for me. Should I point out this this post may contain Triggers for other people?

In an earlier post, Roadrunner said, "By the age of 14 I felt like I was nothing more than a life-support system for a mouth, a penis, and a butt. I was utterly sexualized..."

and,

"Out of all this devastation came a kid who saw himself as just a sexual plaything and regarded other boys in the same way. This is the age of raging hormones, mind you, so day in and day out you see other boys with uncontrolled erections and so on. For me this was a sign of incredible danger."

I felt the same way, except that for me it was incredibly exciting. The urge to act out with boys my own age was overwhelming, and even as my abuse continued I had many sexual encounters with them, to show them what I knew that they didn't.

I realized many years ago how awful that was. While my own abuse was not my fault, certainly this was and I'm not proud of it. I can't tell you why I did what I did, and the guilt will follow me to my grave. How many lives can one person ruin?

And what happened to those close, trusted friends? One of them became my boyfriend for the next 6 years, and he comitted suicide s few years later. Two of them moved away and I haven't heard from them since. One has been in and out of jail ever since, and two others are addicted to drugs and/or alcohol.

And me? I'm an alcoholic with DID and BPD. I've had two failed marriages to women and three great kids (I have custody of my 14 yr old twins), and now I'm in a LTR with a wonderful man with the patience of Job. While I have been in therapy in the past, I am not currently seeing anyone in that regard because sometimes trying to deal with my problems is more stressful than I can stand. I've had a lot of good years, but lately I seem to be slowly spiraling downward towards a crisis of some sort, which is why I'm here. This is all pretty f**ked up, don't you think?

I know this is sort of off topic, but I decided to post this in the place where most of the triggers were. Thank you all in advance for your patience and kind support.

Hey All:

First, I would like to take the opportunity to apologize to anyone who found this post to be a trigger. Triggering potential posts should be labeled as such. However, when I expressed my original opinion, my intention was to seek out help from someone, anyone who has dealt with this issue and has conquered it.

I have read all the responses and have given them each some thought. I have now decided to take the bull by the horns, so to speak, and to do the hard work necessary to save myself. I am convinced. No one is going to save me. If this means controlling every thought and doing that long enough to form new habits and thinking patterns, then that is what I must will myself to do. It is clear. No one is going to save me. The Good Lord has given us the tools. It is now time for me to work with Him to implement His strategy to get myself out of my own misery, saving myself and protecting the people who need me to be safe and strong for them, and providing for them a positive role model for their own growth and development. It can no longer be about me.

We have all been dealt a bad hand, but we can not continue to deal the same bad hand to ourselves and those around us. For me that means my selfish thoughts and behaviors must die and be replaced by more selfless thoughts and behaviors that will actually benefit me in the long term. I am not able to be strong for myself all of the time, but I am continually gaining ground in enforcing the kind of life I am going to have from this day forward. We can not allow ourselves to die so sick and so wounded, no matter whose fault it was. I deserve better and am determined to get it one day at a time.

Do the many CA issues I deal with still try to attack me? Yes! But I consciously fight to keep these issues from affecting my life and my decisions. It is work. I have only this one life and it is half over. I want the remainder of it to be a good one. It is up to me to do what it takes and get it!

Best Blessings,

TaylorWayne

Taylor,

Nicely put - I have one word of advice. In your efforts to consciously fight and keep them from affecting your life, et al, allow yourself the humanity to not always make it.

It's ok to fall down. Repeatedly. As long as you get back up again.

And I may be saying this more for me than you ... but there it is.

M

I have to say "me too" to this. Mine isn't a crotch fixation--but it's similar. I thought you hit the nail right on the head when you said it's a way of looking for vulnerability in a man. I came from a house where the man never wanted a son and the woman was the man of the house. My uncle abused me sexually. Let's just say the situation was doomed from the start. What I've found is that I've spent my whole life looking for a man who will love me unconditionally. Because of my past, this was confused with sexuality.

I do wonder about what you said about control: "If this means controlling every thought and doing that long enough to form new habits and thinking patterns, then that is what I must will myself to do."

I've found that controlling my thoughts is what got me into this mess. It's dealing with the thoughts, saying them out loud as you have done here, and talking to a therapist about them that makes them less powerful. It's kind of like trying to keep an elephant (your "bull by the horns") from damaging the furniture in your living room. Intead of beating the elephant into submission, why not take it outside where it belongs? OK, maybe a bad illustration. But the idea is, there's nothing wrong with unconditional love. There are healthy ways of getting our needs met. Talking to friends about things that are meaningful to us, doing something artistic and sharing it with someone important to us, spending time with people who are real and getting away from those toxic to us--all of that can let the beast feel what he needs to feel, but in a healthy way. I wonder if it's realistic to expect the needs to be controlled. Keep the cork on the bottle and it will blow. Keep the needs met, and we don't have such desperate reactions to life. I'd also like to add that what was done to us in no way made us spiritually defective. We're spiritual people dealing with horrible traumas. Having a thought doesn't make it so. We deal with the thoughts and feelings emotionally. It's our actions that we control.

I wish you the best. Hang in there, OK?

TaylorWayne,
I have to agree with ForeverFighting on this one. I am certainly not trying to sound judgemental here, but the way you describe how you want to deal with these upsetting and intrusive thoughts sounds like trying to push them deeper.

I think we all understand any anger or disgust that might be behind your decision to handle it this way, and that is not for us to decide, only for you.

The only thing I can say here is that I found that I had to let them come to the surface and discuss them so that I could draw the connections to right and wrong, and tie them to my present emotional troubles, which were overwhelming to say the least.

Just some thoughts.

Craig

i was just trying to address this very thing last week.
i think it is different for me, whereas i almost always
act out. i feel that the harder i try, the more dangerous
my activities become. i find posts typed by the vary
same hands asking, no begging the public to abduct and
molest the body. sometimes i find out when the fone starts
ringing and strange men start asking bizarre questions.
yea, it all started with the penis. every penis. i was
soo small. noone knew about my abuse. i wasnt in the pictures.
just girls. no one ever asked me if i was touched "there",
ever. i never knew it was bad. i just knew it was something.
something i had to protect. my abuse was never violent. always fun and love. always sex. i loved sukkin d*** since i can remember. when my dad left. no one touched me there anymore.
(i was 7) about a year later, the older neighbor showed me his thing. "man it seems so small" i used to think. even tho it was
always 2" longer then mine. least till we were 21. thats the
last time i seen his. So yea, i can see where it started, but
it has turned me into a nymphomaniac. the harder i try to stop, the more out of control i feel. last few months it got really bad again. i am lucky to have an "x" that still finds me attractive so i at least have one person i can get some form of that twisted feeling i have been missing since i was 5. i have alters who all have their own attractions. at least the dangerous one was dealt with enough to allow me to feel safe.
at least safe from boys. the others..just mad. street hustler lookin for trix, a boi wanting his dad, another infatuated with his brother, and between it all is d***,d***,D***. thats seemingly all i see. 24/7. (sigh). it takes some control in places like this to behave. the fact that i can, must mean something. why is it just so much easier for me to let myself act out then to try to stop it? i have finally opened up to my therapist that i am getting out of control, and sharing more and more vital info so as to help ease this suffering. it's one of the last parts i really need help with. i know it's connected to
the blocked memories. sometimes i get a peek, then run for the hills. luckily, i forget over time. tha part that doesn't forget never sleeps. i always feel it, like clawing at a door. at a gate. i cant go there. could this be worse because i am a multiple? this porbably didn't help at all, except to let you know others also have issues with this. in my case, my abusers hands became my own. when that wore off, my mind went off in search of new hands... i dunno... hope it helps. beachwolf

Jaybee man, Cbfull, ForeverFighting:

First thanks for your insights. Cbfull and ForeverFighting, I can see and understand your points when it comes to suppressing an unwanted behavior instead of working with it until you get to the behavior's root cause. Once you get to the root, yank that b*tch out, them make the effort to repair your life. That is where I am and this is what I meant to convey. I also understand your position, particularly your statement: I've spent my whole life looking for a man who will love me unconditionally. I think every boy/ man has that longing, and we have a God given innate right to. So few of our sperm donors have matured to be healthy and wise fathers, capable of raising us boys, discerning our individual hurts and just loving us. So now many of us wrestle with all kinds of dysfunction due to not getting the love and care we as helpless children were entitled to but never received. It seems like some wild animals do a better job at stewarding the upbringing of their young than many of our parents.

I am with you in your opinion regarding thought control. I agree that as long as the elephant is still in the living room, you must deal with the elephant. But in my life the elephant is dead and gone, no longer in the living room. However, my living room is still messed up and the furniture remains positioned as if the elephant was still occupying space. Changing my behavior to me represents redesigning my living room furniture for just my needs, no longer living with a design that accommodates me and the elephant. It is now on me to move the furniture and arrange it for me and the life style I want to lead. This means for me driving out the bad habits that were formed while the elephant lived there.

JayBee, I was really impacted by your story. I could relate to it by remembering my own days where I had no control. But I did notice 2 very good things you are already doing: 1) You have got yourself seeing a therapist, building trust and disclosing the facts about your boyhood growing up. 2) You are writing about where you find yourself today in regards to this issue.
You have discovered and expressed a truth that I experienced sometime ago in the middle of my craziness. The harder I tried to resist something, the more out of control I became until I did what I was trying not to do. I found that the more I looked at men's crotches the hornier I got, until I found myself out of control and on some kind of wicked insatiable d*** hunt. I hated it, but many times I was under the "spell". Once the "spell" released me, the only way I could understand my behavior was to think that maybe I had some sort of horny alien living in me. It was like this: when some event out of the blue stirred up the horny alien inside me, and it wanted to use my body to satisfy itself, I found that the more I tried to resist and not do those things I really did not want to do, the crazier things got. I was not without responsibility in all this, but it seemed like the fire of my basic urge for meaningful connections somehow had gasoline poured on it, and it became sexualized and totally beyond what I could manage. That was the alien. The harder I fought, the crazier my path that lead to my defeat became. Soon, I learned to quit resisting and just go with the flow until at the very last second I would spot an escape route. If I was drunk or drugged up, I was seldom able to choose the escape route. If I was in my right mind for a second, I could escape. This happened over and over and over for 18 years. I never got into any sexual intercourse situations, some how the alien did not make me go there, but I did virtually everything else short of that. The life that I was leading at the time had no room for such behavior, so I was constantly hiding and lying about my whereabouts. Later, I tried just coming out and being gay, but it just was not me. Over time and much persistence, I began to learn what gave this alien inside me its power over me and how I could begin to war against it. It was quite the adversary and after 15 years of fighting and struggle, I began to get the upper hand. I don't know what made me keep fighting other than I felt trapped in a life I didn't want. The counselors I did meet with at the end had no clue of how to help me get me back. In the mean while, I was winning some, losing some, getting my ass kicked in others, and no body knew what was happening. I hid it from most everybody. After 20 some odd years of fighting I have discovered that the alien has been driven out, and now it exerts little to no pressure on me anymore. What pressure I do feel on occasion is coming from the alien outside of me and a whole lot weaker. It is no longer inside where it used my own power against me. However today my insides have scares from that evil alien being there, and my personality has habitual behavior patterns that were formed to accommodate the alien inside. Now that it is gone, I have to change my behavior patterns and not remain stuck in the patterns that were formed from all those years being a slave to the alien. This is where I am today. And I have the will to change my own habitual behavior into the kind of behavior that I would be proud of. There is nothing influencing my behavior today other than history, habits, and memories. I can control what I think about when it comes to history and memories, and I can alter my habits given enough time.
I say all this to say that there is light at the end of your tunnel. Getting there is a war, and you will need help from good people and help from Him that is all Love and all Good. If you are interested, I would be happy to compile my list of tactics that the stupid alien inside me used to keep me stuck in repeated acting out behavior, behavior that I hated and did not want to do but found myself doing it anyway. These aliens are not real smart, but they are deceptive. They all use the same tactics on everyone. They simply change the faces and the circumstances. Press on man. It will get better!

Love,
TaylorWayne

Another good post. You seem like done some amazing and brave things in your own healing.

I'd love to see this list of tactics you mention, TW.

Corbin

Hi Corbin
May I also see that list.
Many thanks,
Gert

Sorry!
I meant Taylor.
Gert

Hi Gert

I had said in and earlier post that, "If you are interested, I would be happy to compile my list of tactics that the stupid alien inside me used to keep me stuck in repeated acting out behavior, behavior that I hated and did not want to do but found myself doing it anyway. These aliens are not real smart, but they are deceptive. They all use the same tactics on everyone."

There has been quite a bit of interest in this list from my journal. Sorry it took so long to get it out there, but here it is.

1. Feelings of Anxiousness and Uncertainty
The first thing I would notice that was different inside me was that I would wake up that day with the sense of feeling a little out of control. I am 1/3 scientist-business man, 1/3 Jazz Musician, 1/3 bodybuilder-runner. I am very in-touch with myself. My normal state is that I feel in control of my circumstances for the most part in order to manage everything. On "attack" days the feelings of "all systems under control" is replaced by an unusual sense of anxiousness and uncertainty.

2. Feelings of Isolation
Another thing I have noticed was something in me quits communicating the truth of how I feel inside and what is happening to me. I would not communicate my anxiousness and uncertainty to anyone, including admitting it to myself. I would feel this strange sense of isolation whether I was by my self all day or in crowds of people. It was like I was in a clear glass cage. I was ineffective at communicating with others, and I was strangely unable to be communicated to by others. It is my opinion that this is the time and place where the plot was being hatched for my up coming acting out event.

3. My thoughts would be dominated by scenes from a hot fantasy involving me!
We all have our own fantasies. And we have the ability to turn them off so we can focus on what ever task is at hand. On "attack" days, it was like someone else had control of the images in my head and kept feeding me arousing scenes from an ultra hot fantasy. Even when I had critical things to do, these fantasies would run over and over. They usually always made me feel aroused and caused arousal energy to pump through my veins. This could happen all day, and I was a prisoner in my own head watching images I didn't really want to spend the time watching, but ...

4. Solutions would present themselves as to how I could fulfill the fantasy
I don't know how many times I have been lied to when it comes to this. My mind seems to work against me and goes to work coming up with all kinds of ways to fulfill the fantasy, which makes the entire process spiral up to the next level. The sexual/emotional gratification all the sudden seems attainable, even though this same process has lied to me countless time before, seldom if ever delivering on the feelings promised in the fantasy. Now by this time it is no longer a matter of whether I am going out, it is how soon. I start automatically planning what clothes I plan to where, and re-arrange my schedule to accommodate the necessary time needed. By this point the hook is in my mouth and I am being drawn in without much resistance. Once I am drawn on to the playing field (scene where the fantasy could happen), I am released from the hook and I act out the inevitable.

Ways to beat this process:
1. Recognize when something in your environment is feeding you continual stimulation and driving you into "sexual over arousal" (an arousal that can't be satisfied short of acting out)

2. Do everything possible to break periods of isolation. I can not over emphasis this! I have found that when in these periods, that it is almost impossible to go against the grain of isolationism and its objectives. When I try to go against the grain, I was met with feelings of internal anger that had no bases in reality, and all sorts of emotions designed to get me agitated and want to reward myself by acting out.

3. Do something genuinely kind for another person. Get involved in someone else's problems and help them. This has been the most effective way I have found to force focus out myself and onto something greater. I have found I am better able to break up the continual pattern of fantasy images running through my head.

4. I have found that I experienced a great deal of painful emotional punishment if I tried to interrupt this process. I could never pin point the source or reason for why I felt the way that I did whenever, I tried to resist. If you attempt to fight, you have to be ready for it as the punishment tends to hit you where you are weakest.

5. If you do crash, forgive yourself quickly, and never beat yourself over the head. The process seems to involve some sort of self destructive verbal behavior that you do to yourself. Resist this. Be merciful to yourself and quick to just forgive yourself no matter how undeserving. Negative energy that will work against you seems to hide in un-forgiveness.

6. Finally, write down your own journey once the aliens attack, and be very detailed. This force does not like to be recognized, and writing the events down is one of the best ways of beginning to track their movements in your life.

If you have any other thoughts of questions about unusual behaviors patterns, I will be happy to answer them from my own personal experience.

Peace
TaylorWayne

Hi Taylor
Thanks for this GREAT assistance. I will start to use it asap. I've gone through what you've described above this week and acted out yesterday on these desires, when the temptation got the hold of me. Yes, I have forgiven myself for this. I just hope I can stop it next time whithout acting out. I don't have anybody who I can share it with at the moment. I'm seeking a knowledgeable T in my erea, but I don't think theu have an on-line service in SA when I am desperate.
I do keep a journal, but have been too afraid to mention the details of my thought patterns, etc. I will start immediately when it starts again.
I have recently (late last year) found out that my uncle did "something" to me (and his baby daughter and who elsw?) when I was about 2/3 y/o.
I still don't know how to handle this MAJOR issue in my life (50+), since childhood. According to my mother I was an extremely content baby. It seems that all the other symptoms that most of us experience, started inside of me without "anybody" even being aware of it.
Thanks so much.
Kind regards,
Gert

i too have an infatiation with the penis. i don't want the man to touch me nor do i want to touch him. but i do love to look at penises. it's always bothered and made me feel gay' even though i'm very much attracted to my girlfriend. it has taken alot of prayer and work, but i'm finally at the place where i don't flip out at the thought of ''being with'' my girlfriend.

terpprm:
Your post raises an interesting question I've been thinking about lately. Regarding the large number of guys who are interested in penises and not the person/man, who are not interested in a romantic relationship, but it's just that the penis images/thoughts keep coming up....

If a person fantasizes about himself perfroming oral sex on himself (focusing on the penis, not the individual), is this homosexual? Is it a form of masturbation (we all handle and touch our own penises without it being considered homosexual when we masturbate ourselves, although if we masturbated another male it might be a homosexual act)?

Although some guys are physically able to perform oral on themselves (called autofellatio), how do they see it? Do others fantasize about it and how does that play out as a "gay" fantasy or just a desire to do something different with one's own penis?

I'm curious about this and since I talk about this in one or two chapters in the book I'm writing, this recent thread is making me wonder if there are more possibilities that we haven't discussed or that I've given any thought about.

Any ideas?

Ken

Taylor Wayne;

Is it possible that the 'stupid alien' you are referring to in your post is nothing more than the gay man inside you? Most men have a gay man inside of them, some have it stronger than others.

As a self-proclaimed gay man, I think that my abuse didn't make me gay, but it did prevent me from accepting that I was gay for many, many years.

Ken, I think an important distinction is not what guys do with their own or anyone else's penis, but rather what they fantasize about while doing it. Even male dogs will engage in sex play with other male dogs if no female dogs are available. If me and my buddy have sex to fullfill a physical need but fantasize about hetero sex while doing it, I don't think that is a homosexual act at all. On the other hand, if a guy masturbates using fantasies of gay sex, that is definately a sign of homosexuality, latent or actual.

Respectfully submitted,

Lazarus

Hey, Ken --

I don't know if being turned on by yourself is hetero or homosexual...it probably gets a category of its own (autosexual?). I'm gay and can look at myself with "stranger eyes" ("If I weren't me and saw me across the room, would I think I was hot tonight?") But for most of us, our own bodies are a given...too familiar to be erotic. I'd think being actually attracted to yourself would require a level of detachment that's pretty extreme.

Although a few men can do autofellatio (kind of like advanced yoga), it's probably not comfortable enough to be a real preference. (When I was that young and that flexible, it felt like an achievement, and the idea of it was exciting, but that was it. "Wow, look what I can do...Ow.") I think it's more a performance or curiosity...something you haven't seen before and most people can't do.

I've had many dreams of watching other men being able to perform autofellatio. I experienced these dreams as being extermely erotic, but it never ended in a wetdream. Does such dreams indicate what my sexual preference is, or is this only a fantacy with its roots in my CSA?
Gert

Hey, Gert --

I don't know what the dreams can tell you--it could be a lot of things...

A fantasy of self-sufficiency -- the guy who really doesn't need anyone else?

A fantasy of power -- Someone's tying himself into a knot for you?

I think of fantasies as pretty harmless (some of mine could have gotten me locked up a long time ago otherwise).

As for getting answers about your sexual orientation, here's something I posted a while ago when Larry and I were trying to figure out if a character in a movie was gay -- see if it helps, or just makes things more complicated.



David

Lazarus,

Thank you for sharing this part of your story. It has touched me deeply and helped me feel like I really belong here.

I do not know if it appropriate to say what I going to say and I certainly do not want to cause you additional pain but I was member of one of those groups of boys, where other boys who had been sexually abused by older men and boys were teaching us all the new sexual games and things they had learned from other older people. I do not hold these young men responsible for sharing this information with me and I am saddened to hear of the burden of guilt you carry for these things:

“I realized many years ago how awful that was. While my own abuse was not my fault, certainly this was and I'm not proud of it. I can't tell you why I did what I did, and the guilt will follow me to my grave. How many lives can one person ruin?”

When someone suffers CSA there is certainly a ripple affect because as you mentioned and as I know after members of my group learned the new games we felt obliged to share this information with others as well; but again with people pretty much our own age or close to it. I am not trying to minimize the impact of my being so completely sexualized at an early age but I have to point that that trauma you or others felt as children being victimized by an adult or a much older child is not the same impact that another child feels when exploring new and maybe dangours territory with a peer were the worst consequences for not participating in the new game are being labeled “a chicken” or being excluded from the group.

You were a child too and did not have an adult awareness of the consequences of your actions do not hold yourself to an adult standard it dose not apply in this type of situation.


Cal

TaylorWayne,

I relate to a lot of what has been said in this post it has been interesting to read. I too have struggled with being obsessed with men's crouches.

Taylor, it seems like you done quite a bit work and are planning to do more, good luck. I do have suggestion: one of the things I was told to do which helped quite a bit when I found myself objectifying other men was to pray for them. I had to pray for their soul and that they would be that safe and happy and then and this the most important part for me I had to pray for my soul and that I would be safe and happy. I found that if did not pray for my soul and my happiness I wasn't as successfully at breaking the cycle of objectification. Another point is that this worked for me even though I had very little faith in any kind of God.

Years later I realized that when I was objecting other men it was a signal to me to take care of myself, to do something positive for myself. It sounds like you are already doing some of that.

I relate to your calling this part of yourself the Horny Alien inside, I used to refer that part of myself as the Dark Lord (per "Lord of the Rings") but after few years of fighting my Dark Lord and having him pretty much kick my ass every time. Someone (maybe therapist) suggested I look at who the Dark Lord was behind his mask and boy was shocked. I found my 5 year old self and he was pissed. He didn’t much of how I had taken care of him to that point a matter of fact he was pretty damn sure I had fucked it up and he could do a better job. This lead to me to learn some inner parenting skills and part that involved learning to stop his tantrums without abusing him (not a skill I learned at home) and silence his fears without being more scary (another new skill) because regardless of all my "5 year old inner Dark Lord" was able to do he was not an adult and I was and it was my job not his, even if I did not know how do the job very well at the time. Anyway this lead to many year of integrating my inner Dark Lord and we are on much better terms today. Good luck with your Horny Alien I am sure it will be interesting journey.

Cal

Hello TaylorWayne ...

The first 4 points of your list couldn't of described my week any better if I had wrote them myself.
Points 3 & 4 particularly are scary - my sense of self satisfaction of a well laid plan coming off have been replaced by concern that my behaviour is out of control. For a control freak that is rather disconcerting.
Normally that sense of self satisfaction would last a week or two before I would eventually concede that I have partaken in activity that I really don't want to be a part of. I of course always console myself with that fact that it will never happen again, until it does.

Thanks for sharing your list.

Wow Taylor,
Thanks.
Sorry it took so long for me to finally read it, but i'm glad i did. having a tuff time lately. seems that this place is my "fall back" position. really glad it is here. thanks guys.
btw, whats up with the dates? why isnt there any dates on the pages anymore?

Ditto. I definitely had that going on too and I realized eventualy I believe it has something to do with my own insecurities, that I'm simply not good enough. I see other people and think "damn I wish I could be like that guy, he's really good looking/muscular/has lots of women all over him/etc." And then I realized I used to sexualize all that. Fucked up way to live, but until I'm six feet under I don't plan on giving up the fight to take the power out of my abuse.

Glad I'm not the only one struggling with this. I thought it was penis envy at first until I got older and found out it was connected to something else. I never had a relationship with any man except a sexual one. I looked up to my older brother as a kid, but when he betrayed my trust in him something happened. I had already endured the same thing with a cousin, but it hurt more coming from my brother.

I have one male friend that never betrayed me the same way my older brother did. I was 18 when I first met him and I couldn't stop staring at his crotch, the band of his boxers or feet, whenever I saw them. Staring at them always lead to sexual thoughts that I assumed would occur, but it never happened. After nine years of friendship I no longer have this desire to stare at his crotch, boxer bands or feet. I think we can all agree to some extent that that's what were really looking for when we look at other men: we want a male friend we can trust not to betray us the way other men have betrayed us in the past.

While I still have to deal with looking at other men, I at least know that it's not their penis that I'm looking for, but a bond. A bond that was severed because of what I had experienced as a child.

i still feel that way deep down inside, that this is my primary importance and function; i've lived my entire life thinking so, and didn't even realize it. it's as if i was defined by such a powerful experience as the first orgasm in connection with my older brother. it's as if i have no memory of having any value prior to that. that sux. but today i am changing those thoughts, now that i understand the roots of my problem as being issues arising from the emotional impressions that got wired into 'me', and less about the thoughts that sprang up after, and because of, them.

for me, as far as checking out other guys go, that's not something i need or desire to pursue. other guys fill me with such joy, which takes away my pain, and makes me feel happy feelings and think happy thoughts.

aaaaaah-meeeen [sung in the key of happiness]

ron[do]

Aloha Mike from Hawaii, SA by brother I don,t know if there is a magical solution. Been working on this with therapist for months now with some progress but its work.

Aloha Mike from Hawaii, SA by brother I don,t know if there is a magical solution. Been working on this with therapist for months now with some progress but its work.