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#150892 - 04/15/07 07:14 AM Feeling like a Fool
Still Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/16/07
Posts: 6514
Loc: Terminus
elements of fooldom:




Edited by Robbie Brown (05/10/07 07:08 PM)
_________________________
We don't need another hero! [Aunty Entity 1985]

The Aftermath Video

My Absolute Hero!

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#150895 - 04/15/07 07:28 AM Re: Feeling like a Fool [Re: Still]
dannym Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/24/07
Posts: 543
Loc: Boulder, Colorado
You are no fool, my friend. You are doing work harder than most people could endure, because you had to face and live through hell, and you survived. No fool, in my book.

Whining? Nope.

Healing and reaching out and making gains? Yup.

Just a note about disclosing. I did the same thing. Gave the letter I wrote to my abuser to a few friends. None of them mentioned it until I brought it up. The reason (on both accounts) was that they were so overwhelmed, they didn't know how to bring it up, and they were afraid it might "get me thinking about it again". With one friend, I laughed really hard, when he asked me why, I said, "Dude, I'm NEVER not thinking about it!"

Love ya, Robbie

Dan

_________________________
"You should listen to your heart, and not the voices in your head."

Marge Simpson

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#150899 - 04/15/07 08:07 AM Re: Feeling like a Fool [Re: dannym]
buzz_key Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/31/07
Posts: 635
Loc: USA
Robbie,

You can't take the responsibility for all of this...
Flat out man...BAD - EVIL things were done TO you, not BY you.

Don't let your sister and friend validate you by their inaction or inability to respond to your trust...
I would suggest checking in with each one and asking them what they think about your story...if they asked you for it, put the ball back in thier court.
It could be like Dan said, they may be overwhelmed by the enormity and evil of it and don't know how to come back to you on it...so help them through the door.

If you really think you are whining, then you are letting those 4 a**holes win....DON"T YOU DO THAT! DON"T YOU LET THEM WIN!

I love you Robbie.
Buzz


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#150903 - 04/15/07 08:14 AM Re: Feeling like a Fool [Re: dannym]
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
Robbie,

I don't see the fooldom, bro. I see uncertainty as to how to relate to a disclosing relative and friend, as well as indifference at a critical moment, but those are the failings of other people.

Man, can I ever relate to the missed flight problem! I still have trouble with keeping flight details right in my head, and once I booked myself on a flight from Germany to the UK when in fact it had to be from the UK to Germany. I was sitting here in Oxfordshire and couldn't get that right!

That doesn't make us fools Robbie, it just means we are stressed out. I wonder why?

Much love,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

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#150906 - 04/15/07 08:24 AM Re: Feeling like a Fool [Re: roadrunner]
sabata Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/08/06
Posts: 1948
by no means you are a fool.................robbie..........yeu are reaching out..........thats good.........be kind to your self............steve


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#150921 - 04/15/07 09:37 AM Re: Feeling like a Fool [Re: sabata]
shadowkid Offline
WARNING from ModTeam, September 2013: user "Shadowkid" was exposed as a hoaxer. His entire online persona and stories of sexual abuse were fiction. We encourage you not to become emotionally concerned by anything you see in any of his posts. Thank you
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/18/05
Posts: 2437
elements of cooldom :
spent 30 years in silent pain
found the coolest wife ever
built a good life for her
raised two beautifull children
showed them love everyday
made them all feel safe
confronted the man who hurt you as a kid
still being able to care about him even though he denys the moemories that are so hard for you
made friends with a screwd up kid that needs all he can get ,
you see fool ,i see cool , ps maybe there was a reason you missed that plane,i dont argue with stuff like that sometimes its a good thing adam

_________________________
its not hard to fall
when you float like a cannonball - damien rice

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#150932 - 04/15/07 10:20 AM Re: Feeling like a Fool [Re: shadowkid]
mack Offline
Guest

Registered: 03/07/07
Posts: 101
Loc: new mexico
FOOL? I don't think so. You are the hardest working survivor EVER!! After years and years of pain and misery, you haven't given up. You keep on fighing even when most of us would give up. You are an inspiration to us all. Every time we talk I hope and pray that I can find in me even one third the strength you have.

_________________________
mack

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#150934 - 04/15/07 10:28 AM Re: Feeling like a Fool [Re: sabata]
Muldoon Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/30/02
Posts: 1428
Loc: St Paul MN
Rob It could just be his way of bringing important people into you life. Just open up and see what comes your way.

After all it is Lordy's day and he may have a special day ahead for You. Sending you my thoughts today

Tom.



Edited by Muldoon (04/15/07 11:35 AM)
_________________________
Teach the Children to Never Hide in the Silence

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#150938 - 04/15/07 10:47 AM Re: Feeling like a Fool [Re: Muldoon]
dan17 Offline
Guest

Registered: 03/30/07
Posts: 72
I agree with shadowkid
you're the coolest "fool" i've ever met
about your father, I can't even begin to imagine the pain you're feeling
I hope and pray that he recovers
and I also agree with the others about the lack of response from your confidants
sometimes a lack of response indicates that the person is afraid of saying the wrong thing and possibly hurting you even more so
and don't worry about the flashbacks in front of your customer...he was probably embarrassed as well...plus that doesn't make you a fool...nobody can control when the past comes back to them
I don't know what else to say...
YOU'RE A GREAT PERSON! NOT A FOOL! A FRIEND!


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#150939 - 04/15/07 11:03 AM Re: Feeling like a Fool [Re: dan17]
FormerTexan Offline
Site Administrator
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 09/12/04
Posts: 11113
Loc: Denver, CO
Rob,

I don't have much to add here other than my agreement with these men. You're no fool. You're someone who has taken on the crap dealt to him and faced it head on. Confronting your dad is an inspiration to me in regards to my mother. Please be easy on yourself.

_________________________
List of things ain't nobody got time for:

1. That


If I could meet myself as a boy...

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#150946 - 04/15/07 11:29 AM Re: Feeling like a Fool [Re: FormerTexan]
Hauser Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/12/05
Posts: 2962
Loc: United States
I'm not surprised about your sister's lack of response. They're probably in shock over what they had obviously overlooked when you were kids still.

Don't be so hard on yourself, you have a LOT of SHIT to deal with, give Robbie some credit. It's gonna be rough for a while, but this won't last forever, ok?


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#150953 - 04/15/07 12:15 PM Re: Feeling like a Fool [Re: Still]
blacken Offline
Chatroom Moderator
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 08/13/01
Posts: 1269
Loc: Northern Ohio
Rob,
I'm responding directly from your original post.

"trusted my sister and a friend with "my story" in print - no word from either of them about it...act like i never sent the link after they asked me to send it."
From my own experience, sharing this info with family/friends will, at the very least, Rock-Their-World-Concept of their lives. You have been living with this daily, they can’t possibly be brought up to speed in a page. And, as in my case, they had to process the reality that so much of what they held as truth, was a lie. A lie they didn't even realize they were living.
As it is no small task to disclose our abuse to others, it's also quite a task for others to rework accepted concepts they have held all their lives.
As it takes time for us to deal with each step of our healing, it certainly will take time for the people we have entrusted with our horrors to come to terms of any kind.
We have to re-examine what we expected to get when we shared this info & ask ourselves if we are being fair to ourselves & them.


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#150961 - 04/15/07 01:28 PM Re: Feeling like a Fool [Re: blacken]
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
Robbie,

I just love Shadow's typically sharp and right to the heart of things comment to you. Forget about fooldom; this is all about cooldom. \:\)

Much love,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

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#151284 - 04/17/07 10:24 AM Re: Feeling like a Fool [Re: FormerTexan]
Still Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/16/07
Posts: 6514
Loc: Terminus
The friend i never heard from was just blown-away.
Literally...away. I had to reach out to him to see if he can possibly help Lorie and the kids during this flood. They are in real need of some help.
Contact with him was ALWAYS certain. You call - he asnswers. You email - he replies. Fast...you know?

Not to complain...but the things I have done for him...

fk it!

_________________________
We don't need another hero! [Aunty Entity 1985]

The Aftermath Video

My Absolute Hero!

Top
#151285 - 04/17/07 10:27 AM Re: Feeling like a Fool [Re: Still]
FormerTexan Offline
Site Administrator
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 09/12/04
Posts: 11113
Loc: Denver, CO
I'm sorry, Rob. \:\(

_________________________
List of things ain't nobody got time for:

1. That


If I could meet myself as a boy...

Top
#151295 - 04/17/07 12:28 PM Re: Feeling like a Fool [Re: FormerTexan]
Logan Offline
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MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/05/03
Posts: 1205
Loc: NY
that sucks pal

_________________________
"Terrible thing to live in Fear"-Shawshank Redemption
WOR Alumnus Hope Springs 2009
"Quite a thing to live in fear, this is what is means to be a slave"
-Blade Runner

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#151305 - 04/17/07 02:09 PM Re: Feeling like a Fool [Re: Logan]
dannym Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/24/07
Posts: 543
Loc: Boulder, Colorado
Logan said it best... it sucks. This whole deal sucks, but I'm glad we all have eachother. "They" can never know what it's like... hell, how could they?

Thinking about you Robbie. I know disclosing takes a lot of courage, and to have someone run out on you is devistating.

Love you my friend,

Danny

_________________________
"You should listen to your heart, and not the voices in your head."

Marge Simpson

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#151308 - 04/17/07 02:19 PM Re: Feeling like a Fool [Re: dannym]
Still Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/16/07
Posts: 6514
Loc: Terminus
You know...he probably could not have even done much for Lorie and the kids...but to discover this abanodonment now was just extra painful.

_________________________
We don't need another hero! [Aunty Entity 1985]

The Aftermath Video

My Absolute Hero!

Top
#151312 - 04/17/07 02:51 PM Re: Feeling like a Fool [Re: Still]
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
Robbie,

I am so sorry your friend has let you down, but your term "blown away" probably describes how he feels right now. I'm not saying that to justify his meltdown, but I have to say I understand it. This kind of revelation is just about the LAST thing our friends expect to hear from us.

But more important is how you react to all this. Always remember that his reaction has to do with HIS failings, not yours.

Much love,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

Top
#151313 - 04/17/07 02:52 PM Re: Feeling like a Fool [Re: Still]
ChainBreaker Offline


Registered: 04/06/07
Posts: 55
Loc: Michigan
Robbie,

What do you mean by "blown-away"?

_________________________
When I figure out who I am, I'll add a signature line.

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#151320 - 04/17/07 03:38 PM Re: Feeling like a Fool [Re: ChainBreaker]
Still Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/16/07
Posts: 6514
Loc: Terminus
Blown-away as in gone with the wind. Non-responding.

He always judged anything even remotely homosexual very harshly. If he's assigning any of the usual un-enlightened-blame to me...well...i know where this is coming from then, dont i.

We have been friends since we were 16. Clearly, its been a conditonal friendship...on the condition that I was never raped as a child.

My, i certainly chose poorly to be raped as a kid by older boys. i certainly chose poorly to live in hiding...as if it did'nt happen.

_________________________
We don't need another hero! [Aunty Entity 1985]

The Aftermath Video

My Absolute Hero!

Top
#151332 - 04/17/07 04:17 PM Re: Feeling like a Fool [Re: Still]
dannym Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/24/07
Posts: 543
Loc: Boulder, Colorado
Robbie, you have every right to be angry and upset. Sounds like you gave to him throughout the years and when you needed his support, he couldn't be there for you... But it is NOT about you. You didn't do anything wrong, and if he thinks you did, he's an ingnorant fool. It is about his ability to deal with what has happened. He may surprise you and come back after awhile, but regardless, it is not your fault, you did not choose any of what happened to you...not ANY of it!

Thinking of you and, as always, amazed by your strength to be dealing with this stuff - that is bravery.

Danny

_________________________
"You should listen to your heart, and not the voices in your head."

Marge Simpson

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#151353 - 04/17/07 07:35 PM Re: Feeling like a Fool [Re: dannym]
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
Robbie,

I'll just ditto what Danny is saying. This crap is about HIS issues with homosexuality and sexual abuse based on a lot of ridiculous old myths. Certainly he has no clue about what it's like to go through what you experienced.

But the really important point is that none of that reflects on you, not in any way.

Much love,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

Top
#151391 - 04/17/07 11:28 PM Re: Feeling like a Fool [Re: roadrunner]
WalkingSouth Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/30/05
Posts: 16265
Holy Smokes, Robby. I'm so sorry about the flood and your "friend", all that stuff. The guys are right, of course. Your friend's issues are HIS. He's gonna have to face them sometime. Just sorry it has to be at this particular time.

One of the things I've discovered in life is that when we go through the things all the guys here are dealing with right now, we grow. Many times we do the growing and suddenly we find we don't have nearly as much in common with those around as as we once did. We move on, develop other friendships with individuals with whom we currently relate. That doesn't necessarily mean we abandon our old friends, but the changes in our lives take us in different paths.

I understand the hurt, Rob. I can't replace your friend, but you've made a bunch of new ones here. We'll be here.

Lots of love,

John

_________________________
“Life’s journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting ‘Holy ____…! What a ride!’” ~Hunter S. Thompson

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#151393 - 04/17/07 11:43 PM Re: Feeling like a Fool [Re: WalkingSouth]
Still Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/16/07
Posts: 6514
Loc: Terminus
I know..and thank you.. I just wanted this deep connection from the past to be with me on this. having been close since 16, well, that really hurts a lot.

dont mean to beat a dead horse any more...its just hard you know

_________________________
We don't need another hero! [Aunty Entity 1985]

The Aftermath Video

My Absolute Hero!

Top
#151427 - 04/18/07 09:20 AM Re: Feeling like a Fool [Re: Still]
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
Robbie,

I have been incredibly blessed in that almost everyone I have disclosed to has been instantly supportive and understanding. It has made such a difference. I had one case where a friend asked me if I feared becoming a child abuser myself now, but he was a close friend and I was in a pretty good place anyway, so it was possible to talk about it to him.

But...I have seen numerous cases where it just doesn't go so well, usually because the person hearing the news is so totally taken by surprise and finds himself unable to fathom what he's hearing. I've heard of one case, for example, where the survivor was asked by his friend, "So you're gay now?" Nonsense like that. And there are times where the (pseudo-)friend just backs off entirely. You may have a case like that with this guy. Who knows.

But it may be that he will think it over and wish to re-establish contact with you about this. So I would just suggest that you give some thought to how you will react if that happens. Don't wait for it or anticipate it; I'm just saying, "what if?" You may decide that you can't trust him, in which case, so be it. But you may figure that he just needed some time to process what you told him and had no idea how to respond at first.

You have been hurt and you have every right to your anger, but at the same time, you two guys have been friends for a LONG time. There are powerful feelings running here, and giving the whole situation some serious thought in advance might help to get the outcome - whatever that may be - to work the way that's best for you

Much love,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

Top
#151431 - 04/18/07 09:32 AM Re: Feeling like a Fool [Re: roadrunner]
ChainBreaker Offline


Registered: 04/06/07
Posts: 55
Loc: Michigan
Robbie,

I don't know your friend. (I suppose you're thinking right now that you didn't know him very well either.) Somehow, I feel, though, that he just needs time to process what he's heard. I am hopeful that he will come back and stand beside you again, but that right now he's just too overwhelmed. If he does come back, great. If he doesn't, to hell with him. But I think that maybe "blown-away" might really just mean "blown off his feet by the story he's just heard." I'd give him a few more days before concluding he's never going to talk to you again. You might even think about calling him up and saying "what gives?"

Your call, obviously, bro. I'll support whatever you decide. Just remember you always have good friends here.



Edited by ChainBreaker (04/18/07 09:34 AM)
_________________________
When I figure out who I am, I'll add a signature line.

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#151434 - 04/18/07 09:55 AM Re: Feeling like a Fool [Re: ChainBreaker]
Nobbynobs Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 06/26/05
Posts: 1286
Loc: Toronto
I've lost a few friends from disclosing. Some people have a lot of trouble dealing with pain. Don't judge your friend too harshly. Maybe he did bail on you, or maybe your disclosure brought him face to face with some pain of his own. Leave the door open for him and let things take their course.

_________________________
When you go up to the bell, ring it! Or don't go up to the bell.

- Mel Brooks

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#151444 - 04/18/07 10:53 AM Re: Feeling like a Fool [Re: Nobbynobs]
buzz_key Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/31/07
Posts: 635
Loc: USA
Robbie,

this sucks. I read this and am fearful that the two friends I am about to disclose to, will react similarly...

I guess it will always be the risk we take....but if we don't take the risk...we are assured of the outcome!

I think I'll still take the risk and deal with whatever happens.

But I do understand how deeply disappointed you feel - I can't help but think that if this guy and you have been friends since 16 yrs. old -- there has to be a bond there stronger than any fear or discomfort he may feel --- he may just need time to process!

Praying my friend!

Buzz


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#151452 - 04/18/07 11:22 AM Re: Feeling like a Fool [Re: buzz_key]
shadowkid Offline
WARNING from ModTeam, September 2013: user "Shadowkid" was exposed as a hoaxer. His entire online persona and stories of sexual abuse were fiction. We encourage you not to become emotionally concerned by anything you see in any of his posts. Thank you
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/18/05
Posts: 2437
rob we talked about this ,but i think its a good possibility that your friend has been abused and your disclosing to him sent him running in fear,how would you have reacted to somebody disclosing to you say ten years ago? you say he always talked bad about the kids he said just let sexual abuse happen ,kids who were abused by priests. seems real strange for that to be something he would dwell on ,especialy when you told me he was an altar boy! he hates those boys who just let it happen?how would he know that they just let it happen? also you said you knew him since the 70's so he couldnt have been abused,well he has known you just as long and he had no idea you were abused right? heh i think we are not the only good actors out there ,if you could hide it from him ,why couldnt he hide it from you? his reaction to me is the same kind of reaction most of us would have had a few years ago. its not a crime or a reflection on you if he cant deal with your disclosing,maybe he has secrets of his own and your disclosure is too close to home for him ? ,lets see he hates priests ,he hates boys who just let priests abuse them ,he ran away from your honesty , to me that says he just went into protection mode cause he is not ready or able to deal with stuff inside of him ,heh i just described most of us before we found friends here at ms. maybe its not you ,maybe its him ?

_________________________
its not hard to fall
when you float like a cannonball - damien rice

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#151483 - 04/18/07 01:59 PM Re: Feeling like a Fool [Re: buzz_key]
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
Originally Posted By: buzz_key
this sucks. I read this and am fearful that the two friends I am about to disclose to, will react similarly...

I guess it will always be the risk we take....but if we don't take the risk...we are assured of the outcome!

I think I'll still take the risk and deal with whatever happens.


Have you thought through what you want from your disclosure? Why these two friends? Do you think they will be ready to hear what you want to tell them? How will it affect you if it goes badly? Are you prepared and ready to respond if they bring up one of the myths of CSA? All these are considerations a survivor needs to think through very carefully as he approaches disclosure.

I don't know if I or someone else has mentioned this to you, and perhaps you have already read it, but Ken Singer has a really good article on disclosure and confrontation here on MS:

http://www.malesurvivor.org/ArchivedPages/singer3.html

Much love,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

Top
#151496 - 04/18/07 02:36 PM Re: Feeling like a Fool [Re: roadrunner]
Nobbynobs Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 06/26/05
Posts: 1286
Loc: Toronto
You know, I have disclosed to hundreds of people and not one has brought up any of the myths of CSA. Most people just get very sad or cry.

_________________________
When you go up to the bell, ring it! Or don't go up to the bell.

- Mel Brooks

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#151632 - 04/19/07 12:11 AM Re: Feeling like a Fool [Re: Nobbynobs]
Still Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/16/07
Posts: 6514
Loc: Terminus
PAYDAY!!!!!! THANK YOU LORD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I was talking to a very good and old friend (Jerry) about my SA. He's known for 2 months now and has been VERY supportive.

I told him how quickly things can happen to a kid. Sometimes they cannot be avoided. I cited an article that I'll give you below. It describes a VERY quick rape of an 8-yr-old boy in plain-site!

Jerry was astounded. I went on the tell him how prevalent it is (in my opinion). I warned him that it could happen to his boys and that you cant always prevent things, but that they need to be able to tell him ANYTHING at ANY TIME...and be comfortable with telling.

He then said that Tylor (his 8 yr-old) told him that the boy across the street "rubbed his pee pee through his pants" (from the ouside) and wondered why he did that. Jerry did not realize the extent to which THAT was SA. I warned him that he has a child-predator accross the street and that he's a real and present danger to Tylor...and that NO kid should EVER be alone with that boy...that this was likley step-one. That Tylor could end up in that kids house and...

K...i'm shaking now...but i feel like this is a paycheck for all this horrible f****ng pain!!! maybe i stopped something...

see this article...show it to people who have their head in the sand. It happens just that fast. God...it DID with me.

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1264/is_n7_v22/ai_11384504



Edited by Robbie Brown (04/19/07 06:24 AM)
_________________________
We don't need another hero! [Aunty Entity 1985]

The Aftermath Video

My Absolute Hero!

Top
#151658 - 04/19/07 06:32 AM Re: Feeling like a Fool [Re: Still]
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
Robbie,

I'm so glad this worked out for you. Disclosing to people is so difficult at first, and when it works out so well, as in this case, it really feels great. And what a bonus! Your friend is not only understanding, but actively supportive. That's wonderful news.

Much love,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

Top
#151659 - 04/19/07 06:40 AM Re: Feeling like a Fool [Re: roadrunner]
Still Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/16/07
Posts: 6514
Loc: Terminus
this is actually a different friend. the other still will not make contact after 2+ weeks of having the story.

But thanks re the good news. I feel/know this IS a truly tangible benefit to all this crap

_________________________
We don't need another hero! [Aunty Entity 1985]

The Aftermath Video

My Absolute Hero!

Top
#151671 - 04/19/07 08:07 AM Re: Feeling like a Fool [Re: Still]
shadowkid Offline
WARNING from ModTeam, September 2013: user "Shadowkid" was exposed as a hoaxer. His entire online persona and stories of sexual abuse were fiction. We encourage you not to become emotionally concerned by anything you see in any of his posts. Thank you
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rob at 8 no kid can be a predator,somebody is teaching that kid ,he needs help dude! a teenager maybe could be a perp ,but not an 8 year old somebody find out whose perping that kid ! adam

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#151672 - 04/19/07 08:20 AM Re: Feeling like a Fool [Re: shadowkid]
Still Offline
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I'll bring it up with Jerry today!!!

Thanks

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#151677 - 04/19/07 08:45 AM Re: Feeling like a Fool [Re: Still]
Nobbynobs Offline
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Be very careful with this, Rob.

How old is the other boy? If he is another 8-year old, then it could have just been sexual play. Children that old will still play around with each other, so it might be premature to assume that this is CSA-related. They may have just been playing Doctor.

Remember that accusations of CSA can't be taken back. Your friend needs to speak to his son and get some more detail on what happened. If something seems "off" about the story, then it wouldn't hurt for your friend to speak to the other boy's parents. (I assume your friend knows them well, since he is letting his child play at their house.)



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#151678 - 04/19/07 08:50 AM Re: Feeling like a Fool [Re: Nobbynobs]
Still Offline
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Thanks Nobs,

Jerry is an ex-cop, so he's pretty good at digging tactfully. I have a hard time thinking of any overt reach-out-and-touch-someone act as normal childhood sex-play. I have no idea what that normal childhood sex-play is. That is where Jerry waa putting this...into that category. I fear its otherwise.

rob

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#151686 - 04/19/07 11:03 AM Re: Feeling like a Fool [Re: Still]
roadrunner Offline
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Robbie,

Originally Posted By: Robbie Brown
He then said that Tylor (his 8 yr-old) told him that the boy across the street "rubbed his pee pee through his pants" (from the ouside) and wondered why he did that. Jerry did not realize the extent to which THAT was SA. I warned him that he has a child-predator accross the street and that he's a real and present danger to Tylor...and that NO kid should EVER be alone with that boy...that this was likley step-one. That Tylor could end up in that kids house and...


Wow. My eye flew right over this paragraph earlier today.

The good news here is that Tylor went to his father with his discomfort about what had happened. That's really important, and hopefully this episode can be handled in a way that the boy doesn't feel that his openness with his Dad has blown up in his face.

I would agree with Nobs about the pretty innocent possibilities here. Kids this age are becoming curious about their bodies and will often share that curiosity with other kids. I read somewhere that up to a third of all boys get into this sort of experimentation at some time or another before or during puberty. They may play doctor ("check up, check down") or whatever, without any harm being done to any of the participants.

If the other boy is significantly older, however, or if things went further than just playful touching, then there may be a problem. But even then, Tylor's Dad needs to be really careful how he handles this, otherwise the boy could emerge feeling ashamed or guilty and may hesitate to come to his Dad in the future.

There are a number of good books for kids this age about "good touch, bad touch", and the message is basically that a boy's body belong to him and not others, and that it's not a good thing if he is touched in the area covered by his swimming trunks or underpants. These books also stress that "touching secrets" should not be kept.

I posted a list of these a few weeks ago, but I can find them again if you're interested. The problem is that some are outdated and even, in my opinion, irresponsible. But the good ones really are excellent.

Much love,
Larry

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#151699 - 04/19/07 12:21 PM Re: Feeling like a Fool [Re: ChainBreaker]
froggy12 Offline
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Robbie, I agree with Roadrunner - I have told things to friends and they were so stunned, it took a while for a reply. I know about "Not to complain...but the things I have done for him..." Bingo - you been looking into my thoughts again? I have friends up in Berlin (NH) and I'm not sure how they would react. She told me things about herself and I was shocked and it took a while and this was before I got PC, but it was a totally different subject.
Hang on. I hear that Spring will come back, probably in June.

froggy

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#151795 - 04/19/07 09:11 PM Re: Feeling like a Fool [Re: froggy12]
shadowkid Offline
WARNING from ModTeam, September 2013: user "Shadowkid" was exposed as a hoaxer. His entire online persona and stories of sexual abuse were fiction. We encourage you not to become emotionally concerned by anything you see in any of his posts. Thank you
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my brother is 7 and i can tell you he would not know even where to touch another kid.normal sex play?what is normal sex play?dont you think that we of all people should be able to see the signs of abuse? saying its normal sex play is PART OF THE PROBLEM! maybe at 11 or 12 when a kids starts to become aware of his body yeah ,8? id rather make someone uncomfortable ,than just shrug it off ,thats kinda how lots of guys ended up here right? maybe its important enough to take a chance? maybe not

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#151804 - 04/19/07 10:41 PM Re: Feeling like a Fool [Re: shadowkid]
Nobbynobs Offline
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deleted so that I will not be misquoted again.



Edited by Nobbynobs (04/22/07 05:08 PM)
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#151815 - 04/20/07 12:20 AM Re: Feeling like a Fool [Re: Nobbynobs]
Still Offline
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understood..and conveyed to Jerry ..thanks

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#151841 - 04/20/07 07:56 AM Re: Feeling like a Fool [Re: Still]
shadowkid Offline
WARNING from ModTeam, September 2013: user "Shadowkid" was exposed as a hoaxer. His entire online persona and stories of sexual abuse were fiction. We encourage you not to become emotionally concerned by anything you see in any of his posts. Thank you
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dude i dont know where you live but the stuff you just described is not normal,your son wants hims mommie to kiss it? not normal sorry not where i come from ,! her fishy! sorry no .

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#151844 - 04/20/07 08:40 AM Re: Feeling like a Fool [Re: shadowkid]
Still Offline
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Nobs, Given my early experiences (rapes) I honestly dont know WHAT is normal for childhood behavior. I truly dont.

What triggered the hell out me with regard to Tylor was that 1) it bothered him enough to go tell dad...and 2) that it was an un-wanted, overt act.

So, im MY book of reference, that's SA.

I have given Jerry both sides of analysis here.

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#151846 - 04/20/07 09:10 AM Re: Feeling like a Fool [Re: Still]
Nobbynobs Offline
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Robbie,

I know how you feel, and believe me, as a fellow parent I know how difficult it can be, especially when you're a survivor. But it is really best not to jump to conclusions. It's great that you want to help your friend, and it's also great that you are watching out for his little guy. That's what good friends and neighbours do.

Adam,

When you have children you might change your perspective. Kids don't think in terms of "sex." They are simply curious about their "special parts," especially when they can see that their parents have two different types. Also, they very quickly learn that it feels good when they touch themselves there, so they start masturbating almost as soon as they can reach their genitals. Any parent of a toddler can tell you how much of a challenge it can be to get kids to keep their clothes on.

As far as teaching children to use special names for their genitals, there is a strategy to that. Some pedophiles, especially ones that prey on very young children, will teach children that words like penis or vagina are bad. This is to prevent the children from talking to their parents about the abuse.

Most parents will use a secret name like "fishy" so that when their child talks about her "fishy" they know what she means, and they can talk to her about it without using words that might make her upset.


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#151849 - 04/20/07 10:25 AM Re: Feeling like a Fool [Re: Nobbynobs]
roadrunner Offline
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Adam,

I think it's important to bear in mind that as survivors we may often tend to be hyper-vilgilant. Watching out for the safety of our children is important, sure, but I would agree with Nobs that kids are insatiably curious. That's an important dimension of their development, and they will be as curious about their sexual parts as anything else, and even more. They have an unacanny knack for picking up on the "vibes" around them, and that means they will quickly figure out that sexual parts have something special and secret about them. So they will talk about this and experiment with their friends rather than ask their parents.

At 7, yes, your little brother probably has no clue about sex and not any interest either. But I bet he does have an interest in his body and especially in his penis. Is it bigger or smaller than those of other boys, why does it look different, why does it "stand up" sometimes, etc. This questioning really is just a part of childhood, and experimentation among kids is very common. This is a well-attested fact, and no, it isn't abuse.

Where it turns to abuse is when one boy is disempowered, manipulated or exploited. This is most common when there's a significant difference in age, but it can also happen if, for example, a group of boys gangs up on one. In the case of Tylor, yes, that sounds abusive to me, but if I were handling this I would not treat the older boy as an abuser. He's young as well, and I would want to talk to him about good and bad touching and try to get him to tell me where he learned to behave like this. It's probably something that was done to him.

The danger lurking right under the surface of our vigilance, Adam, is the problem of humiliating a boy who was just playing around and making him link sex and his body with shame and being bad. There's a fine line here, yes, but I think any parent ought to approach this issue very carefully and calmly. This is one of those areas where a kid's trust and confidence in talking to safe adults can so easily be shattered.

Much love,
Larry

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Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

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#151852 - 04/20/07 10:35 AM Re: Feeling like a Fool [Re: roadrunner]
Nobbynobs Offline
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Very well said, Larry.

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When you go up to the bell, ring it! Or don't go up to the bell.

- Mel Brooks

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#151957 - 04/20/07 11:32 PM Re: Feeling like a Fool [Re: FormerTexan]
Daniel Peter Offline
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No, not a fool. All I see on these pages are courages "brave-hearts." Everyday we see, meet, or hear about people who can't face us, let alone HEAR about what we all LIVED! Yet, here you all stand, facing demons square in the eye shouting "NO, what happened was wrong and I'll fight to make it right!" Fools? Hell no---heros all.

Daniel Peter

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#152270 - 04/22/07 07:02 PM Re: Feeling like a Fool [Re: Daniel Peter]
dan17 Offline
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I'm sorry you got hurt

i wish there was some way I could help you

you're really an inspiration


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#152352 - 04/23/07 09:13 AM Re: Feeling like a Fool [Re: dan17]
roadrunner Offline
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This thread has turned into complicated but really important territory and I just want to say (again) that it seems to me we are not all talking about the same thing.

Some of us are talking about sexual boundaries as an idea thsat's clear in our own minds, to which I would say, fine - that's good. But the point is that young children don't have clear ideas about either sex or boundaries yet. Can a child's play be "sexual" if the child has no sexual purpose in mind and has no idea about sex yet? I remember one evening I came to check on my son in the bath, and there he was, lying in the bubbles with an erection, pretending it was a space rocket taking off. Was that sexual? Not for him.

There's also the problem that some of us are talking about what should occur, while others are talking about what does occur. When I point out that kids are curious about their bodies, including their sexual parts, I'm not commenting on whether that's a good thing or not. I'm just saying this is a well-attested fact, going right back to the Kinsey reports (that is, almost 60 years ago).

I also think we have to acknowledge that our own take on the sexuality of children is full of big triggers for us. Some of this stuff can feel REALLY dangerous at an immediate personal level, but if one guy says his experience is such-and-such, let's not gang up on him for just stating what he saw or remembers.

Much love,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

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