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#15033 - 04/23/06 10:25 PM To go to court or not.. perp already in prison!
12to17 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 04/23/06
Posts: 12
Loc: Australia
I would appreciate any advice I can receive about whether or not it is worth it to proceed with the Police and court action.

Me at the time: 12 to 17 years old

When: a long time ago, started 36+ years.

Who: Family acquaintence 10 years my senior.

Why now: He had been in news for almost 3 years, I never saw anything about him or the case, but last Dec (2005) my Mum mentioned it to me in a casual way, not knowing what impact his name and the charges he was about to be sentenced for would have on me.

Why my reaction: I have no idea, but as 49 year old, I felt like a 12 year old all over again, hoping he was not ringing that damn door bell. I maintained my composure till I finished my phone call with my Mum, looked up details on the net, and felt so so guilty, as I realised I was about 10 years before any of the current victims.. and had I been able to speak up back then, they all may have been saved from him. Not only had I forgotten (or wiped out) the memories of back then, when I later thought of him, I reckoned he must have stopped, as kids had "stranger danger" now and were taught to "speak up" . I wish I had back then. I did that night, I popped in to see the Police..

My Family Reaction: Reading that these guys (victims) had spoken up, I resolved to, but first a call to one of my brothers, I couldn't speak very clearly, and when he realised what the call was about, he broke down and could not speak at all, he called back, and decided we'd need to tell the rest of the family. He and another brother arranged to meet my parents (both now in their 80's) and talk about it. The next week was me avoiding family calls, as I knew the "12 year old" could not speak, but the 40 year old came back and we all cried together. For some reason my 4 brothers and my Mum and Dad all started their various conversations (when emotionally able to) with very heartfelt apologies.. I guess they all felt they may have let the "baby" of the family down back then, by never knowing what was going on. They are not to blame , only one person is, and that leads to the point of this post.

Current Situation:
1. He (perp) is was sentenced in Dec (2005) and is in prison now.
2. I still have hours of interviews to go with Police, as was postponed last Dec due to changes in sexual assault divisions within the Police.
3. My families reaction, and other friends was overwhelmingly positive, and I think very healing for the whole family
4. Just the fact that I was able to talk about all of this was very good for me as well (very difficult coupel of months). I do not know, nor can even pretend to know what impact "he" had on me, but one thing I know now is I feel a lot better, that room that was locked up for so long has had it's doors flung open and the sunlight streamed in.( I still get emotional when talking about it, or writing this post)

The Question:

Is it worth proceeding with Police/Court action when perp is already in prison?

I have so many thoughts on it myself, but have not been there/done that yet, and if he was still out there "doing it" to others, I would have no hesitation, but he is not. Is it worth the stress etc to go through it all as "additonal" charges to those already proven with others?

Any comments, thoughts ideas would be greatly appreciated

Thanks

R

_________________________
Roy
Sydney, Australia.

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#15035 - 04/23/06 10:46 PM Re: To go to court or not.. perp already in prison!
WalkingSouth Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/30/05
Posts: 16264
Hello R,

First let me say "Welcome" To MaleSurvivor. Sorry you need to ask these questions in the first place, but hope you find what you are looking for here.

You say you got emotional while writing the above post. That's OK and to be expected. I got emotional reading it, and in fact am having trouble seeing the screen as I write.

You asked the question,
Quote:
Is it worth proceeding with Police/Court action when perp is already in prison?
Only you can answer that, my friend. My advise would be that if you feel it will help you as you work on healing from the devastating effects of what he did to you, then by all means, go for it. If on the other hand you feel like it would only do you more harm than good, you might want to forget about it or at least put it on hold till you are in a better place.

There may, of course, be laws that govern how long you have to file a formal complaint against him. That is the case here in the US at any rate.

Please know that whatever you decide to do, you now have the loving support and concern of many of your "brothers" here in Cyberspace.

Thanks for your bravery in speaking out.

Lots of love,

John

_________________________
“Life’s journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting ‘Holy ____…! What a ride!’” ~Hunter S. Thompson

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#15036 - 04/23/06 10:49 PM Re: To go to court or not.. perp already in prison!
reality2k4 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/06/04
Posts: 6838
Loc: Stuck between water, air, and ...
R,

firstly, you are talking about police accition when he has been put away.
Is it that he never got put away for the real crime he commited?

You dont tell how long he got in sentence etc., nor what he got nailed for.

Please be more specific,

ste

_________________________
Whoever stole the Sun, put it back and we'll drop all the charges!

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#15037 - 04/23/06 11:19 PM Re: To go to court or not.. perp already in prison!
RICK57 Offline
Member

Registered: 12/31/03
Posts: 1611
Loc: ENGLAND
R - if the perp is already in prison for paedophile crimes committed against others at a later date than the crimes against yourself, it might be that they will not prosecute!

The police should be able to advise you! I don't know if Australian Law is the same as English/British law (I know we are both part of the commonwealth, but our laws will have some differences).

I cannot tell you that you must go forward with a prosecution, that is a decision that you alone can make!

I will however tell you that it has recently taken me from October of 2004, to March the 17th of this year to achieve a conviction against the pervert that abused me (1969). It is very difficult at times going through this process, and whatever happens along the way, you have to remain focused on the end result (that prevents you from cracking up). I am still unhappy with some aspects of sentencing, so have appealed to the Attorney General...that's 19 months now since I made it an official complaint!

I wish you well whatever you decide!

Best wishes...Rik

_________________________
*Never look down on anybody unless you're helping them up.
*I was seeking a way of expressing my anger - I found hope!
*There are many battles before the war is won! It can be won!

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#15038 - 04/23/06 11:41 PM Re: To go to court or not.. perp already in prison!
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
R,

Welcome to MS and I hope the site can be of use to you. I can only agree with what has been said by others above, and will just add two other points.

Before you decide whether to report this guy you might want to find out whether your report would have any impact on his imprisonment – parole for example. That information will help you decide how you should proceed. I think you will find that everyone here would like to see perps spend as much time locked away as possible, but if your report won't affect his sentence or parole there still might be ways in which reporting him would help you. It would be a way of speaking up and rejecting the boyhood silence, for example.

My second point has to do with that silence. You have this to say:

Quote:
I realised I was about 10 years before any of the current victims.. and had I been able to speak up back then, they all may have been saved from him.
So many of us have felt like that bro. I know I did. I discovered that the abuser who hurt me lived for another 31 years after he got chased away from me. Who knows how many other boys he feasted on in that time?

But we have to let go of that guilt, simply because it doesn't belong to us. It isn't up to a frightened and confused abused boy to keep others safe; it's up to adults to leave them alone in the first place. There are a million reasons why we can't even talk about the abuse, and at the end of the day the fact is that we disclose it and try to do something about it the very first moment we are ready. Not before. It wasn't your fault: not then, not now, not ever.

Much love,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

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#15039 - 04/24/06 01:14 AM Re: To go to court or not.. perp already in prison!
12to17 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 04/23/06
Posts: 12
Loc: Australia
Wow,

So many replies so quickly. Thanks. A few answers/comments to questions in your replies.

1. Perp got 8 years / 5.5 minimum, for 4 victims (originally 10, but apparently 6 dropped out over the 3 years) Although not the case with me, they were scouts and he a scout leader. (Believe it or not, there were 4 current or former scout leaders who were at his sentencing, who jeered at the 4 victims, stating he was "set-up" \:\( I beleive the Scout Movement is investigating them now)

2. Perp pleaded guilty, but to lessor charges (maybe in US called a Plea Bargain). I am not sure what this means, but feel he may have done a bit more with me over those 5 years in the 1970s then he did with the newer guys. So maybe sentence may be increased if I proceed or not reduced to the 5.5 years??

3. I had already started to be interviewed by the Police, but Police Dept internal changes (cessation of Child Abuse Unit and incorporating it into the general Sexual Assault Unit) and a lot of gang rapes have put me (and another who has come forward) on hold for the time being.. hence time to reflect as to what may be best course of action.

3. Law in NSW has no time limit for what is classified as level 3 aggravated rape. That is the most severe charge, and is used when both are adults and a weapon is used and victim suffers physical harm. The law here equates this to ongoing sexual assault of a minor

Thanks

Maybe best to copy and paste the law here

CRIMES ACT 1900 - SECT 61J

Aggravated sexual assault
61J Aggravated sexual assault

(1) Any person who has sexual intercourse with another person without the consent of the other person and in circumstances of aggravation and who knows that the other person does not consent to the sexual intercourse is liable to imprisonment for 20 years.
(2) In this section, "circumstances of aggravation"means circumstances in which:
(a) at the time of, or immediately before or after, the commission of the offence, the alleged offender maliciously inflicts actual bodily harm on the alleged victim or any other person who is present or nearby, or
(b) at the time of, or immediately before or after, the commission of the offence, the alleged offender threatens to inflict actual bodily harm on the alleged victim or any other person who is present or nearby by means of an offensive weapon or instrument, or
(c) the alleged offender is in the company of another person or persons, or
(d) the alleged victim is under the age of 16 years, or
(e) the alleged victim is (whether generally or at the time of the commission of the offence) under the authority of the alleged offender, or
(f) the alleged victim has a serious physical disability, or
(g) the alleged victim has a serious intellectual disability.

_________________________
Roy
Sydney, Australia.

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#15040 - 04/24/06 02:22 AM Re: To go to court or not.. perp already in prison!
shadowkid Offline
WARNING from ModTeam, September 2013: user "Shadowkid" was exposed as a hoaxer. His entire online persona and stories of sexual abuse were fiction. We encourage you not to become emotionally concerned by anything you see in any of his posts. Thank you
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/18/05
Posts: 2437
if there is no time limit on prosecution ,wait untill he is due to be released or his sentence is reduced might be an option ,5 years for4 victims?!!dont sound like the court gave them much justice ,i will say that for me court was everybit as bad as the abuse just in a different way .my perp got 7 years ,was it worth it ,to be honest ,no .but i was 11 years old at the time and was told he would get life. 5 years is a joke its an insult to the victims.

_________________________
its not hard to fall
when you float like a cannonball - damien rice

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#15041 - 05/02/06 05:04 PM Re: To go to court or not.. perp already in prison!
12to17 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 04/23/06
Posts: 12
Loc: Australia
Update.

Thanks for your support. Had my first initial interview with the new Detective this week. Looks like full steam ahead. \:\( or \:\) not sure yet. About 3-4 others have also come forward this time around.


I have had to talk to my family again, as they will be interviwed as well, and the Detective was mainly concerned about my parents (in their 80's) and how they would handle the process, (blame/upset/etc) They are cool with it. As they said they did not know anything was happening back then, but are more then willing to be involved witht the process.

Thanks

R

PS May be best as legal action pending for me to keep out of here for the time being??? Suggestions?

_________________________
Roy
Sydney, Australia.

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#15042 - 05/02/06 07:17 PM Re: To go to court or not.. perp already in prison!
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
12to17,

On your use of the site while this case is underway, perhaps send a PM to Rik or Kirk? Both of them have had legal experiences and could comment. Or is there a legal aid person you can talk to?

It would be a good idea to clear this up. Obviously you don't want to do anything that would compromise the case against the abuser.

Much love,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

Top
#15043 - 05/02/06 08:33 PM Re: To go to court or not.. perp already in prison!
reality2k4 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/06/04
Posts: 6838
Loc: Stuck between water, air, and ...
R,

I dont think that you being here is a problem with your court case.
As long as you do not directly name anybody involved.

ste

_________________________
Whoever stole the Sun, put it back and we'll drop all the charges!

Top
#15044 - 05/29/06 05:01 PM Re: To go to court or not.. perp already in prison!
12to17 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 04/23/06
Posts: 12
Loc: Australia
Hi All

Just an update

I have given my two day statrement to the Police at last.

This week they travel all around NSW Australia to interview my family (4 brothers and my Mum and Dad)

The Poice have offered counselling through the NSW Department of health, and I may take them up on it.. seems my flatmate heard me screaming the other night in my sleep:(

I do not remember my dreams, but know I keep waking up tired.

I think my initial guilt of never speaking up 30 odd years ago will make me see this through, as most family and friends have seen what "rememberance" can do, and I know the Police feel that after 4 decades of crime, this guy will not stop unless stopped.

I had the misfortune to see a guy kill himself on Friday night, well, actually, heard the noise, looked out the window, and then called the Police as a lovely looking young man lay on the laneway outsdie my bedrrom window, dead. \:\( He had jumped from his balcony or roof of his apartment?

Why he did that I do not know, but I know so many of us could have, had we not had some inner strength, some friends, or mates or family that know we are really OK.. and it was really never our fault.

His death (whoever he is/was), really affected me, and my family picked up my change of tone, my friends did and I reckon he is the first person I have seen die in front of me when maybe he would have had a good 60-70 years left if just someone had picked up his "tone'

That is all,
I imagine after my family is interviewed, the Police will do their investigation, make recommendations for charges and then I will find out if charges will be made or not, and then wait 2-3 years for the court case.

Is it worth it! I think YES!! Even it is just me, far too late, but wanting to save younger guys (boys) from going through what I did.

I may never know how what the "perp" did to me when I was a kid affected me, maybe I am just me anyway, but some how I reckon kids deserve to grow up in these complex days without that added burden and grief.

Why do I weep 36 years later..cause it was all a "secret" back then, and I could not let it out...

Take care Guys.. We are Male Survivors... let's just keep proving that and helping others,

All the best

R

_________________________
Roy
Sydney, Australia.

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#15045 - 05/29/06 07:52 PM Re: To go to court or not.. perp already in prison!
Kirk Wayne Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/31/05
Posts: 499
Loc: Shrewsbury UK
12to17

Welcome to MS

"Why do I weep 36 years later..cause it was all a "secret" back then, and I could not let it out..."

In my case it was because of a lost childhood.

Hang in there your doing great. We will never know why the guy decided to end his life, but a lot of us here (I think) have toyed with the idea, I know I have and attempted it on three seperate occasions and I am nobody special as they kept telling me in rehab, but today I am as I can speak about my past to anyone without feeling ashamed and that is a wonderful feeling. I know who I am now.

I dont see any problems about your case being on here as long as you dont mention specific names till after the trial.

Kirk
"Lets grab this bull by the horns and swing it about a bit"


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#15046 - 05/29/06 11:30 PM Re: To go to court or not.. perp already in prison!
shadowkid Offline
WARNING from ModTeam, September 2013: user "Shadowkid" was exposed as a hoaxer. His entire online persona and stories of sexual abuse were fiction. We encourage you not to become emotionally concerned by anything you see in any of his posts. Thank you
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/18/05
Posts: 2437
5years ,for 4 kids lives makes you sick! a plea bargain got my perp off with 7 years ,he got out and reoffended again with in 6 months and was caught ,back in prison now ,one thing i have to say with the courts the way they are even if you had spoken up 30 years ago its no sure thing he wouldnt have got out and hurt more kids anyway,my case took over two yeas to be over .unless he got life i say go for it .but be warned its not something you will get much satisfaction from . i did what i did because i though it would stop him ,but it didnt at that time. so i helped get him arrested after he got out and he is gone for life now. at least he will know he never really beat you ,his plan to keep you quiet didnt work after all

_________________________
its not hard to fall
when you float like a cannonball - damien rice

Top
#15047 - 05/30/06 12:44 AM Re: To go to court or not.. perp already in prison!
RICK57 Offline
Member

Registered: 12/31/03
Posts: 1611
Loc: ENGLAND
If you can go through with the court case, it will be difficult. I know that I struggled even when I pretended that I wasn't! It's now about 10 weeks since I got the perv convicted, and I still feel to some extent like I'm getting over a bereavement. Each time I went to court, it felt like a bad bereavement.

I'm not in any way trying to put you off, I'm merely trying to warn you that it will not be plain sailing.

What I can say, is that I would go through the whole court scenario again just to ensure that the *******'s shame was permanent!

Abused September/October 1969 (12 years old, perv was 32). Told friends for the first time over 3 decades later. Told Police October 2004. Conviction achieved March 17th 2006.

There's a lot of waiting around, where you still have to try and live your life!

Best wishes.... Rik

_________________________
*Never look down on anybody unless you're helping them up.
*I was seeking a way of expressing my anger - I found hope!
*There are many battles before the war is won! It can be won!

Top
#15048 - 05/30/06 02:46 AM Re: To go to court or not.. perp already in prison!
Ken Singer, LCSW Offline
Moderator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/24/00
Posts: 5778
Loc: Lambertville, NJ USA
R-
One more thing to add to the discussion....

I don't know whether Australia has sexual predator laws or civil commitment, but many states in the US have them. That means that at the end of a prison sentence, a sex offender can be evaluated and if found to be likely to re-offend, he can be civilly committed which means in many cases, he will be incarcerated in a secure facility/prison until deemed safe to be released.

My mentioning this is even though some of the victims did not go through with prosecution and their cases did not add to his sentence, testimony from additional victims can make the difference by presenting the offender as someone who has a long history and additional victims.

In any event, giving your statement/testimony, if it feels empowering for you, go for it.

Ken


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#15049 - 10/29/06 05:25 PM Re: To go to court or not.. perp already in prison!
12to17 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 04/23/06
Posts: 12
Loc: Australia
Update..
Family all very suppotive, but after interviews with all family members (by 2 detectives) 35+ years is very difficult to come to a common outcome as to when the perp first came into our family:(

Consequently, but not confirmed yet by the Police, i think they will decide there is not enough "firm" dates or stats from family to be able to hold up against a defence lawyer. (e.g. one brother "knows" the perp was around the family when I was 11, another brother can only come up with a date that makes me 16? So differemt stories from my 4 brothers and Mum an Dad do not make for a good prosecution... 35+ years after the events

Over all, the whole process, besides being very traumatic, as far as family goes , has been great!.. some reservations, i think some brothers do not talk the same in front of me as when i am not there, but my Mum is very suportive, and my eldest brother and his entire family have been wonderful.

I find it hard to work out what is "understanding" from my family, and what is "guilt" or "remorse" for not being aware back then and being able to stop it.

Anyway, the perp is in prison for at least another 5 years, maybe 8. and I think there are any more "recent" cases that will come back to haunt the perp before his release,

Take care guys

R

(Roy)

_________________________
Roy
Sydney, Australia.

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#15050 - 10/29/06 06:19 PM Re: To go to court or not.. perp already in prison!
WalkingSouth Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/30/05
Posts: 16264
Roy,

Thanks for the update. Glad you are doing OK and commend you for having the courage to go through with the process. Good job!

Lots of love,

John

_________________________
“Life’s journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting ‘Holy ____…! What a ride!’” ~Hunter S. Thompson

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#15051 - 10/29/06 08:56 PM Re: To go to court or not.. perp already in prison!
12to17 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 04/23/06
Posts: 12
Loc: Australia
Thanks John,

It has been a worthwhile journey, but as I guess we all may know, has had it's costs, but i think they have been worth it, both for myself and my family.

I feel my Dad, and my older brothers all feel a huge sense of guilt that they did not know, and therefore could not protect me, and at times, they do not know how to say that.

I have let each of them know, that it was not their fault, and neither do i hold any bad feelings towards them.

Memory wise, with the police interviews, a lot of emotions came to the surface, which i kept fairly under raps from all. I honestly can not say that I am fully over those memories and emotions yet, but have for the most past, a family who now an understand a little if i get choked up on the phone and can't continue the call.

Although I had my big birhday last week (50), in many ways, I think we can remain kids inside in how we deal or remember these "past" events. It was great catching up with all the family for the first time (in person) since they were all interviewed by the police, but i did notice a huge reluctance for any of them to bring the topic up, or to simply ask "How are you doing?" That's cool!

I am also thinking more and more of the need to just do something different, like have a holiday and feel the sun on my shoulders or somthing, or pack up and leave the city i live in for a slower
paced enironment, maybe even move "home" for 6 months and catch up with parents before they "move on" in a way I have avoided most of my adult life.

Given the opportunity again, would i do it all again, Yes, a RESOUNDING YES!!

The cost or price has been worth it, as stated in earlier posts, I still feel a huge guilt myself tht I did not do all this many many years ago, and that would have saved a lot of kids going through the same, but I somehow thought he'd not be so stupid to keep going.

Take care

Roy

_________________________
Roy
Sydney, Australia.

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#15052 - 10/30/06 02:52 AM Re: To go to court or not.. perp already in prison!
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
Roy,

I am so glad this is working out for you, and I am especially happy to see the family rallying around you. Mine was that way as well when I disclosed to them, and it made all the difference in the world.

I hope you will keep working on the guilt problem. Responsibility for the abuse of later victims belongs 100% to the perp - he worked for the blame, let him have it all!

Much love,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

Top
#15053 - 10/30/06 06:17 AM Re: To go to court or not.. perp already in prison!
OKIE MIKE Offline
Member

Registered: 02/13/04
Posts: 980
Loc: HULBERT OK
Iwould go it lill keep him in jail juat that much longer . people like that do not belong on the street

_________________________
MICHAEL

"I HAD NO SHOES THEN I SAW A MAN THAT HAD NO FEET"

"All I can do is be me, whoever that is"

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#15054 - 10/31/06 05:24 AM Re: To go to court or not.. perp already in prison!
Brian Offline
Moderator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 05/03/01
Posts: 1563
Loc: Upstate NY
Roy,

Although this has been difficult, it sounds like it also has been a very liberating experience for you. I agree, I think you would benifit from a nice long holiday!

Recovery is Possible!

Brian

_________________________
Recovery is Possible!

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#15055 - 10/31/06 05:42 AM Re: To go to court or not.. perp already in prison!
12to17 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 04/23/06
Posts: 12
Loc: Australia
Just when you thought..!!

Police contacted me yesterday. Perp will be charged with 17 counts of "whatever" against me next week. With possible first court appearance in New Year.

As you can see from post on 29th, i thought it was all over, but now after almost a year since I reported it to the Police, charges will be laid, and 17 of them! I am not sure if to shout out loud or to have a cry:) or \:\(

Advise, please. Should I keep off here (MS) till court case etc over? Should I ask for my posts to be removed or altered?

Thanks everyone for your support and encouragement, greatly appreciated!!!
Again. Thank You \:\)

Roy

_________________________
Roy
Sydney, Australia.

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