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#14934 - 08/25/04 11:07 PM Working through the past
Pete2004 Offline
Moderator
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/06/04
Posts: 958
Loc: North Carolina
Guys, this is my first post. I’ve never shared this incident with anyone. If it’s inappropriate, let me know and please forgive me. I’m very motivated on this journey I’ve just begun, but it really is scary at the same time. Driving to work this morning, I was thinking back to an incident that happened to me at Boy Scout camp. I guess I was 13 or 14. (An older neighborhood boy had already abused me. To really screw me up, I liked all the feelings and attention I got from him, but that is another post). There were not enough boys from my troop to go to camp together, so I went and was made part of a “provisional” troop and assigned a professional scouter as troop leader. He took a “fancy” to me. Holding me and paying me a lot of attention while we were swimming in the pond. Singing to me around the campfire, etc. One night, he came to our cabin and while everyone else was asleep, he put his hands on my chest and arms telling me how well built I was, he felt my now aroused genitals and told me how big it was, like a “light pole”. The adrenaline surges were the most powerful I can ever remember. It gave me more of a rush than anything I had ever experienced. It was intoxicating. At the same time, I thought my heart would beat out of my chest, I was so scared. I didn’t know if he expected me to touch him or not. Unfortunately, I had been pre-conditioned by previous experiences. For some reason, he left, walked away and I never saw him again. I “finished” the job on my own. I have a hard time figuring how these things affected me, but, here I was, at camp, minding my own business, and this “nice guy” violated me. I didn’t even know of the added shame, surprise and fear that, without warning I had attracted yet another encounter, yet I craved the attention and touch….. I’m just beginning to uncover the buried feelings, and it scares me. I am committed to walking away from the affects of all the abuse, The coping mechanisms I have used over the years are not working as well now as my kids, especially my son, are reaching the ages of my abuses. The abuse is really hitting home now and the affects it has had on my entire life. The shame, the isolation, the fear of rejection if they really knew who I am and have done, Whew! What a long journey I have undertaken. Guys, thank you for sharing your trials and victories, it is really helping me.

Pete

_________________________
There is a destiny that makes us brothers;
No one goes his way alone;
What we send into the lives of others,
comes back into our own. (Edwin Markham)

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#14935 - 08/25/04 11:57 PM Re: Working through the past
MikeNY Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/07/04
Posts: 927
Loc: NY
First of all, welcome. Second, in our context here, nothing that you have said is unusual. Your shame, and guilt, and similar things are not yours to carry. They belong to the people who abused you.

If you haven't read it, there is a post in the Friends and Family section titled "Conditioned Responses". I think that you may find it helpful.

_________________________
"Every child asks the questions which hold the answers to the secrets of the universe, WHAT?, and WHY?". --Me

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#14936 - 08/26/04 12:18 AM Re: Working through the past
dwf Offline
Moderator/BoD Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/24/03
Posts: 1223
Loc: Austin, Texas USA
Welcome, Pete.

I am sorry for all the hurt that has brought you to us. But I am so glad that you are here.

You are in the right place.

My experience is that I have found a lot of support, strength and hope from this place.

I know that you can too.

It takes a lot of courage to make that first post. Yours was a very powerful and moving testimony to your desire to overcome the effects of the sexual abuse.

Once again, welcome, Pete. It is possible to recover. That's what this place is all about.

Sincerely,

_________________________
"Poke salad Annie, 'gators got you granny
Everybody said it was a shame
'Cause her mama was aworkin' on the chain-gang"

-Tony Joe White

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#14937 - 08/26/04 06:46 AM Re: Working through the past
Bryan Offline
Member

Registered: 07/30/04
Posts: 37
Loc: tokyo
As this is your first post, I thought I would pay you my first Reply (my first post also this last week). I:m a newbie here at MS too, I:m not sure where there:s help for me in this world, maybe it:s here. However, I have thought alot about some of your issues for 4 years now:

Shame/guilt: These were physically and psychologically grafted onto a totally innocent-you. Your abusers could not process nor communicate their feelings to you/anyBody properley and they left you behind, used and with no meaningFull experience. Now you are putting Meaning in yourself (and children), welcome to Ground zero, earthling! Stop a moment when you feel shame and realize it:s not yours anymore - it:s *theirs*. Shame might yet become a sign of your conscience telling you *I:m brave enought to fight the Good Fight*. I felt like a scum nearly every time I kissed a girl, now it:s more naturally *I fought thru soo much shit, you should be glad to have someone so moral kissing you.* Hope that gives a little light, but Sharing this with us here who know your Language is one way to overcome the isolation.

Isolation - DO NOT ISOLATE. Keep trying, but find someone, here and/or elsewhere, to keep trying to process your feelings with. Some of us do understand and your post is most perfectly valid and (unfortunately for us/you) everyday in most our experience. My experience of telling a couple dozen family/friends is that most cannot relate to this (hopefully someone can at least Listen?), but - we can Relate; a shrink can; and some books in this bookstore can (I can recommend Lew:s book and Ghost in the Bedroom)...do not fail to use some or all of these resources. NOTE I:m happy for you that you have made children, the jury:s not in as to whether I will be so gifted with family.... AND Someday your children may yet know how courageous you are in driving forward on MeaningFull relationships, both for your sake and theirs. I envy them - I did/do not have parents that processed their guilt or shame and it instead filtered down to me. Your abusers let it filter down to you and now you are Filtering that. Keep reaching out, even if it pisses somebody off. Filters take time to effect.

Fear - it may be proper not to communicate your details to kids now. If they are Teens, maybe impart Personal Boundaries and drawing lines for YES/NO on sex issues. It:s not out of line to have a sit down MacDonalds dinner individually and let them know you care, that you have had relationships that had Hormones racing faster than your Logic, and talk about their idea of boyfriends/girlfriends help them to CHOOSE their boundary for YES/NO for ANY part of any relationship, including drawing the Lines between Hormones/Logic. I:m just spouting what I had wished from my parents, but you:ll decide how much your kids can handle...and how fast to impart all your *Ideals*.

Your thoughts are turning now to them, hoping to protect them from sharing your agonies...this is the mark of a good parent, which again I was denied - Bravo for you, you are dealing with IT! Realize however, that you must save yourself first, if you can pass it on to them, great, ideal. I think it IS important you reach out to them in some way, just so they know Dad:s thinking struggling about them...That much can filter down to them - you:re Trying. You get a chance to *attempt* to help them, hopefully they:ll accept the Help AND you, but your experience is IMPORTANT to them. Good luck on getting across to them. On behalf of us from seriously dysfunctional families, thanks for taking the time to ACT in their interest and yours.

_________________________
Bryan Beezer

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#14938 - 08/26/04 10:24 AM Re: Working through the past
Sans Logos Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/31/03
Posts: 5791
Loc: in my own world in pittsburgh,...
Pete,

What he did was WRONG. He preyed on you as an object for his own narcissistic end.

You were young and at that point in your life where you were begining to experience the powerful chemical changes of adolescence. He provided a stimulus, and you responded. There is no shame on your end. Your response to what happened to you was natural and involuntary.

By now, you've probably spun into existence a whole surreal inner-life around these early incidences, an inner world that dominates your every waking and sleeping moments of reflection. It's what we do for survival; and it's part of the conditioning that happens as such experiences completely envelop us, body mind and soul.

That is the crime of what they do to us. They are the worst kind of thieves and murderers. In one fell swoop, they suck the future right out of our potential, and leave us tethered to a frozen moment where we are damned to remain tied to the past. They sting us at a time when we don't have the wherewithall to comprehend the ramifications of their actions. We clothe ouselves in shame, find it impossible to forgive ourselves, because after all, ( WRONGLY ) society has sent very clear disapproving messages about sex between people of the same genitalia.

The irony is that in order to release ourselves from this trap, this bondage, we have to endure this crucifixion until we come to the place within our own selves where we become able to fully understand the impact of such deeds. We have to come to learn and recognize how its far reaching ramifications constantly echo through our inner lives, facilitating our making choices that are not in our best interests. If we are lucky or blest, we wake up before we ourselves finish what they started; we wake up before we kill or otherwise maim ourselves by ill-use of substances and processes.

Then the most severe irony is, that we have to learn to forgive, both ourselves and the abusers before this frozen moment can melt away, releasing us to proceed along our way uninhibited.

That's a mighty tall mountain, but the only way is up, cause there is no down from here.

Sorry; I didn't intend to pontificate.

Ron

_________________________
  1. the past
  2. ReClaiming Now
  3. advocacy


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#14939 - 08/26/04 03:04 PM Re: Working through the past
reality2k4 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/06/04
Posts: 6838
Loc: Stuck between water, air, and ...
Pete,

welcome, but sorry you have to be here, hope you can find the answers you are looking for, but don't get hurt, when you read about the lives of others in here.

Keep your mind safe in here

Ron,

I congratulate you, on putting the effects down, so concisely, I think we wound it up, for all it is

thanks

ste

_________________________
Whoever stole the Sun, put it back and we'll drop all the charges!

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#14940 - 08/26/04 05:07 PM Re: Working through the past
Mike Church Offline
Moderator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 01/23/03
Posts: 3439
Loc: Toronto, Canada
Pete welcome to MS. You have become part of the greatest group of men it has ever been my privilege to know as brothers.

I am glad that you are tired of the damned coping skills that you used.

You said:

Quote:
The coping mechanisms I have used over the years are not working as well now as my kids, especially my son, are reaching the ages of my abuses. The abuse is really hitting home now and the affects it has had on my entire life. The shame, the isolation, the fear of rejection if they really knew who I am and have done,
There should be no fear of rejection or shame on your part as you did nothing wrong. The shame was theirs and they burdened you with it. Bastards all of them. And the isolation thing is sort of a self protection thing that are walls to keep others out. Remember those same walls keep you in.

I can see that you are proud of your boys and so you should be. Remember all that is good about you as you start down this road. Write it all down and compare it with the stuff you do not like. That should not include reacting to a perps advances. I mean we all did.

Welcome again Pete and you can pm me anytime.

_________________________
Mikey

IT REALLY IS OK TO STUMBLE. NONE OF US ARE PERFECT.

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#14941 - 08/26/04 06:18 PM Re: Working through the past
Happy Birthday Lloydy Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 04/17/02
Posts: 7071
Loc: England Shropshire
Pete & Beezer
Welcome to MS, and the best support and friendship of it's kind.

Making those first posts is so hard, as Survivors we have had our self-esteem ripped from us, so we fear rejection all the time.
We don't reject, we support and help wherever we can.

If you have any questions then please ask one of the Moderating team. We're here to help rather than control what's posted.

Dave

_________________________
Go confidently in the direction of your dreams! Live the life you've imagined. As you simplify your life, the laws of the universe will be simpler.
Henry David Thoreau

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#14942 - 08/26/04 10:29 PM Re: Working through the past
Pete2004 Offline
Moderator
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/06/04
Posts: 958
Loc: North Carolina
Thanks guys! If only I could memorize these responses! I am re-reading them and would very much like them to become my thought patterns. Oh how I wish they would!....I feel as if there is this big black hole in me. I don't know what it contains, but it scares the crap out of me. How do I deal with it and let it out? Thank you again for the afirmations!

Pete

_________________________
There is a destiny that makes us brothers;
No one goes his way alone;
What we send into the lives of others,
comes back into our own. (Edwin Markham)

Top
#14943 - 08/26/04 11:01 PM Re: Working through the past
EGL Offline
Moderator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 06/19/04
Posts: 7821
Hi Charlie - Like the others, I'd like to welcome you here, though sorry you have to be here. As you've figured out, this site is a tremendous resource. I've been here 2 months now and it has helped me tremendously, as I'm sure it will you too. This work is hard, and I'm slooooowly starting to see some progress. But it is only small fragments at this point. Don't despair though, you're in good company with those who understand you like no one else in the world.

_________________________
Eddie

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#14944 - 08/27/04 07:51 AM Re: Working through the past
Leosha Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 06/18/03
Posts: 3614
Loc: Right here
Pete,

welcome here. As you have already heard, nothing really of your post is unusual. That is rather sad, isn't it? The context we all live in.

I think it was most natural to have physical response to some of what we gone through. I think it maybe is more unusual to not have that physical response. It is body, it is chemistry, it is not us 'wanting' anything. But I think it do make us feel more guilty, like we were a part of it, when the body responds.

I hope that you will find this site as helpful as I have. I have been here over a year, and still continue to learn something each time I come here. I wish you well, and good luck with the journey.

Leosha

_________________________
Avatar photo in memory of my younger brother Makar.

"Human salvation lies in the hands of the creatively maladjusted."~~~Martin Luther King Jr., 1963

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#14945 - 08/27/04 01:55 PM Re: Working through the past
Sans Logos Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/31/03
Posts: 5791
Loc: in my own world in pittsburgh,...
Hi everyone,

I know that speaking in "we" terms is a no-no around recovery circles. Several times as I was pouring my "stream of consciousness" into the computer screen, I tried to stop myself and reorder and express myself less absolutely. I decided not to censor myself because, dammit, some things are packed in "we-ness", particularly these issues that are shared in common.

"we" eat
"we" breathe
"we" fear
"we" have common reactions to incidences of sexual assault
"we" ( fill in the blank) ..............I think you catch my drift.

I am sorry if I came off as insensitive; I am really just like most people, trying to breathe, sometimes from underneath buried feelings and pain, and other times through joy and (fill in the blank) .


Ron

_________________________
  1. the past
  2. ReClaiming Now
  3. advocacy


Top
#14946 - 08/27/04 10:39 PM Re: Working through the past
Pete2004 Offline
Moderator
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/06/04
Posts: 958
Loc: North Carolina
Again, driving into work this morning, I pondered all the great responses. It never occurred to me that the abuser (perp) at camp had targeted me. It’s hard to describe the overwhelming and conflicting emotions that churned inside me. Yes… he was or –is- a premeditating perp! But, he was nice to me, he liked me, he made me feel special… But, he screwed my mind up… I spent frustrating years fantasizing about the encounter deeply desiring the attention and mixing up the sexual attack with caring love…. He didn’t care… he USED me… but it felt so good, it was so powerful… it was so secret… it was so shameful…..

Men… thank you for helping me through all this. I deeply want to learn proper boundaries and be able to develop healthy male friendships.

Pete

_________________________
There is a destiny that makes us brothers;
No one goes his way alone;
What we send into the lives of others,
comes back into our own. (Edwin Markham)

Top
#14947 - 08/28/04 03:51 AM Re: Working through the past
fusionoflove Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/03/04
Posts: 112
Loc: Los Angeles, CA
Charlie2004,

I just want to say thank you. By coming forward and telling your story you're allowing yourself to heal as well as others. The more we find that we are not alone, the more we find ourselves able to find support in our silent suffering. People here have been raped/abused at all ages. I, for one, am an adult survivor of male on male rape.

The fact that you've decided to begin this journey is a testament to your character. Welcome brother, I hope that you can find help here and know that you're not alone.

Someone said it to me on my first post and I really like to repeat it. Welcome to the tree house. It sucks that you had to find us, but we're here.

Take it easy,
Fusion


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#231825 - 06/19/08 10:07 AM Re: Working through the past [Re: Pete2004]
Barkabus Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/09/08
Posts: 809
Hi Pete,

Sorry to dig up this old post of yours. I read it last night. Later after I went to bed I was thinking about the experience you mentioned...

Quote:
he put his hands on my chest and arms telling me how well built I was


Then suddenly I got a chilling flashback...a repressed memory came back (I think). It was just a flash of a mental image though. As soon as it popped into my mind it left. It was a flashback to an entirely different occasion of SA and a different perp. I tried to bring back the memory again but I couldn't. Oh man this is disturbing for me. Wow.

Thanks for all of your encouragement Pete!
God bless,
Mike

_________________________
My Story

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#232158 - 06/20/08 10:42 AM Re: Working through the past [Re: Sans Logos]
LW1527 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/14/08
Posts: 408
Loc: Salt Lake City Ut
Sans Logos - Thank you for you insight. It was very helpful to me.


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#232162 - 06/20/08 10:48 AM Re: Working through the past [Re: EGL]
LW1527 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/14/08
Posts: 408
Loc: Salt Lake City Ut
Charlie - I've only been here two months. I feel your pain along with my own. There's nothing I can say that would be as great as what others have said. I hate scouting. I have two boys and I wouldn't let them go into scouting. It wasn't your fault, but that is easy to say. I just said to my therapist the other day, "What did I do to make this happen?" as I sobbed. We have all thought this and I don't think that ever goes away. But being rational, it wasn't our fault was it? We put out adult rationalizations onto our memory of being 13 or 14 and wonder why we let it happen. We couldn't help it because we were only kids and not adults. I wondered why I let my dad molest me as I just lied there. I wonder now why I didn't pick up a knife and kill him. We just took it and it wasn't out fault. I hope you understand.


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#232174 - 06/20/08 11:52 AM Re: Working through the past [Re: LW1527]
Sans Logos Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/31/03
Posts: 5791
Loc: in my own world in pittsburgh,...
no prob lw1527, glad you are with us. please stay.

ron

_________________________
  1. the past
  2. ReClaiming Now
  3. advocacy


Top
#232293 - 06/20/08 10:14 PM Re: Working through the past [Re: Sans Logos]
Pete2004 Offline
Moderator
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/06/04
Posts: 958
Loc: North Carolina
Thanks Guys!

This post of mine is almost 4 years old and I can remember vividly how difficult it was for me to push the submit button. The accepting and affirming replies help put me on the path to recovery.

Guys, I have changed so much over this time span... I am so much better today than when I first posted this thread. I am living proof that we can get better!

Have I finished my journey? No, but I am well on my way. Take heart guys, it really does get better!

Mike, thank you for bumping this up. God Bless you all.

Peter



Edited by Charlie2004 (06/20/08 10:14 PM)
_________________________
There is a destiny that makes us brothers;
No one goes his way alone;
What we send into the lives of others,
comes back into our own. (Edwin Markham)

Top
#232311 - 06/20/08 11:42 PM Re: Working through the past [Re: Pete2004]
pufferfish Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/26/08
Posts: 6815
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Charlie2004
.post). There were not enough boys from my troop to go to camp together, so I went and was made part of a “provisional” troop and assigned a professional scouter as troop leader.
Pete


Thank you for your post on the scout camp. The way you begin it as quoted above, sounds very much like the setting for abuse I experienced at a boy scout camp.

http://www.malesurvivor.org/board/ubbthr...true#Post219028

I look forward to reading your future posts.

Puffer



Edited by pufferfish (06/20/08 11:44 PM)

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