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#148793 - 04/04/07 10:40 AM Kathy Lee on Today show
Muldoon Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/30/02
Posts: 1428
Loc: St Paul MN
Guys we have to get someone from Male Survivor to call the Today show and demand they let our story be told. I so f****** MAD.

Please someone on the board jump on this and demand a ,retrackion of what Kathy Lee and Ann said on national TV.

They made that fucking statement about those abused becoming abusers.

I am pissed as hell.

Tom

_________________________
Teach the Children to Never Hide in the Silence

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#148795 - 04/04/07 10:44 AM Re: Kathy Lee on Today show [Re: Muldoon]
FormerTexan Offline
Site Administrator
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 09/12/04
Posts: 11181
Loc: Denver, CO
Tom,

I saw this while at work. It would help me to give a more pointed reponse if I could see a transcipt. I'll see what I can find, or if someone else can come up with something.

_________________________
List of things ain't nobody got time for:

1. That


If I could meet myself as a boy...

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#148805 - 04/04/07 11:08 AM Re: Kathy Lee on Today show [Re: FormerTexan]
tartugas Offline
Board Member
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 02/11/07
Posts: 513
Loc: NYC
Please do someone put up a tran>
_________________________
"I am not a mechanism, an assembly of various sections.
And it is not because the mechanism is working wrongly, that I am ill.
I am ill because of wounds to the soul, to the deep emotional self...."
Healing D.H. Lawrence

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#148809 - 04/04/07 11:13 AM Re: Kathy Lee on Today show [Re: tartugas]
tartugas Offline
Board Member
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 02/11/07
Posts: 513
Loc: NYC
What segment of the show was this on, in which segment? So I can check the website.

_________________________
"I am not a mechanism, an assembly of various sections.
And it is not because the mechanism is working wrongly, that I am ill.
I am ill because of wounds to the soul, to the deep emotional self...."
Healing D.H. Lawrence

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#148905 - 04/04/07 05:53 PM Re: Kathy Lee on Today show [Re: tartugas]
Muldoon Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/30/02
Posts: 1428
Loc: St Paul MN
The 9 oclock time . Tom

_________________________
Teach the Children to Never Hide in the Silence

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#148911 - 04/04/07 06:23 PM Re: Kathy Lee on Today show [Re: Muldoon]
tartugas Offline
Board Member
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 02/11/07
Posts: 513
Loc: NYC
Has anyone else found a tran>
_________________________
"I am not a mechanism, an assembly of various sections.
And it is not because the mechanism is working wrongly, that I am ill.
I am ill because of wounds to the soul, to the deep emotional self...."
Healing D.H. Lawrence

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#148917 - 04/04/07 06:46 PM Re: Kathy Lee on Today show [Re: tartugas]
tartugas Offline
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MaleSurvivor
Registered: 02/11/07
Posts: 513
Loc: NYC
FOUND IT!

The segment is on child abuse, not speifically CSA. And the focus of the piece is on the statistic that 120 children a month die due to child abuse.

So the comment about those who are abused wind up growing into abusers themselves is spoken within the context of a discussion of phsical and emotional abuse. I make this distinction not because I feel any one kind of abuse is better than another or that those of us who are CSA survivors are to be in any way excluded from this discussion, but because if we come charging out of left field with cries of, "Untrue!" without appreciating and noting the context of the discussion, we might not get heard.

I don't think I can copy and paste the link to the clip here, because of the format.
In order to see the clip go to this link

http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/12065856/

Then scroll down the page to the "More video from TODAY" section. Click in the "A National Day of Hope for kids" link to see the clip. The comment in question happens approximately 1 minute in to the clip.

I am going to work on writing a letter to Ann Curry, who made the comment, Kathie-Lee Gifford, and try also to find the email addresses for some of the executive producers over at the Today show. I think they need to hear from us, the VICTIMS, that being a victims does not automatically mean that you are going to become a perp. When I have the letter written I'll post a copy of it here. I will also post any contact info I can come up with.

_________________________
"I am not a mechanism, an assembly of various sections.
And it is not because the mechanism is working wrongly, that I am ill.
I am ill because of wounds to the soul, to the deep emotional self...."
Healing D.H. Lawrence

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#148926 - 04/04/07 07:43 PM Re: Kathy Lee on Today show [Re: tartugas]
tartugas Offline
Board Member
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 02/11/07
Posts: 513
Loc: NYC
Can anyone provide me with a quote that specifically address the truth that the overwhelming majority of abuse victims do not themsevles become abusers. I believ there's something in Lew's book about it, but I can't remember.

Thanks

_________________________
"I am not a mechanism, an assembly of various sections.
And it is not because the mechanism is working wrongly, that I am ill.
I am ill because of wounds to the soul, to the deep emotional self...."
Healing D.H. Lawrence

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#148927 - 04/04/07 08:03 PM Re: Kathy Lee on Today show [Re: tartugas]
Muldoon Offline
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MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/30/02
Posts: 1428
Loc: St Paul MN
Thanks for taken the lead on this. I will look at the clip whwn I get home from work. Think that this is in good hands. It is best that we handal this professional and I am not the one to do that when I am mad. There is something about it on the home page about the meths about csa. Tom

_________________________
Teach the Children to Never Hide in the Silence

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#148930 - 04/04/07 08:23 PM Re: Kathy Lee on Today show [Re: Muldoon]
tartugas Offline
Board Member
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 02/11/07
Posts: 513
Loc: NYC
By the way, everyone -

PLEASE DON'T send any angry letters to Today. I'll post an example of something that I think would strike the right kind of tone. Let's channel our anger in dignified, courageous action. That will be much more effective.

_________________________
"I am not a mechanism, an assembly of various sections.
And it is not because the mechanism is working wrongly, that I am ill.
I am ill because of wounds to the soul, to the deep emotional self...."
Healing D.H. Lawrence

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#148932 - 04/04/07 08:31 PM Re: Kathy Lee on Today show [Re: tartugas]
onlyakid Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/31/04
Posts: 1552
Loc: New Jersey
I watched this clip and I transcribed the inmportant part, this is in context. Looking at this, Ann Curry's comment is correct SOMETIMES meaning are there abusers that have been abused, yes. Kathy Lee agrees with her but expands all that to give the impression that if you've been abused there is a good chance you will abuse as well. Thats not right, if some one has to guess a percantage she means by very often, I would think that they would come up with atleast 75%. So what they are saying is 3 out of every 4 survivors of abuse abuse themselves?

Heres the tran>
_________________________
"Being with people that understand you...Priceless"

"and i don't want the world to see me, cause i don't think that they'd understand"

"You don't know what love is...you just do as your told"

"My life has changed. What you take as a simple thing, is not so simple for me anymore"


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#148935 - 04/04/07 08:44 PM Re: Kathy Lee on Today show [Re: tartugas]
onlyakid Offline
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MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/31/04
Posts: 1552
Loc: New Jersey
Originally Posted By: tartugas
Can anyone provide me with a quote that specifically address the truth that the overwhelming majority of abuse victims do not themsevles become abusers. I believ there's something in Lew's book about it, but I can't remember.

Thanks


Our very own Dr. Richard Gartner, PHD author of Beyond Betrayal has a section in his book about this. Page 144 reads "Research suggests that ALTHOUGH many male abusers were sexually victimized as boys only a small minority of these boys goes on to become sexual predators".

Having said that they'll probably blow us off saying that they were talking about physical and emotional abusers.

_________________________
"Being with people that understand you...Priceless"

"and i don't want the world to see me, cause i don't think that they'd understand"

"You don't know what love is...you just do as your told"

"My life has changed. What you take as a simple thing, is not so simple for me anymore"


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#148947 - 04/04/07 09:08 PM Re: Kathy Lee on Today show [Re: onlyakid]
tartugas Offline
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MaleSurvivor
Registered: 02/11/07
Posts: 513
Loc: NYC
Originally Posted By: jtt5254


Having said that they'll probably blow us off saying that they were talking about physical and emotional abusers.



Thanks jtt for the info.

But I want to challenge the above statement. None of us know what their reaction will be. I understand the sentiment, but I won't allow myself to get discouraged. I know that the facts are on with us, and even if they don't hear us this time, maybe if we speak up this time, the next time we speak out we'll be taken a little more seriously. Besides, what's the harm in sending an email in this case?

_________________________
"I am not a mechanism, an assembly of various sections.
And it is not because the mechanism is working wrongly, that I am ill.
I am ill because of wounds to the soul, to the deep emotional self...."
Healing D.H. Lawrence

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#148949 - 04/04/07 09:17 PM Re: Kathy Lee on Today show [Re: onlyakid]
KeithR Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/28/06
Posts: 363
Loc: Georgia
For whatever reason, I guess I am not as offended or upset by the comments made on Today as some others.

My feeling is that, overall the segment was very positive by providing the information on Childhelp.org and 1-800-4achild. I am watching news tv right now and I have a feeling I am not going to hear anything about a National Day of Hope for Kids. I will be wonderfully surprised if I do.

We need to keep in mind that no statistics were given. I believe that there was just a poor choice of words used during the interview.

I agree that we should not bombard Today with negative responses, because I do not see how this will be effective in educating anyone, but I do think the type of response that was mentioned earlier may provide a possibility for some additional positive coverage on the subject. Wouldn't it be great it Today were to show an excerpt from the Broken Trusts Broken Childhoods Documentary and encouraged a parent to be more observant, or a victim to seek recovery ?

(please don't hit me)
Keith


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#148951 - 04/04/07 09:24 PM Re: Kathy Lee on Today show [Re: KeithR]
tartugas Offline
Board Member
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 02/11/07
Posts: 513
Loc: NYC
Keith,

Thanks for your input. I'm not trying to suggest that anything bad was done, merely something ignorant. I can't fully explain why it's charged me up the way it has, and I don't necessarily expect everyone to feel the same way I do. But I feel very strongly that the essence of the statement, and the fact that it was made so almost non-chalantly chill me.

What frustrates me is that, our reponse to issues of abuse as a society is so confused and disorganized that not only will almost no one hear anything about this National Day ofHope for Kids, but those that do got a mixed message. IT screams to me about the need for education, not anger. And if I can do something to advance the cause, then by gum I'm a gonna.

And not to worry, I'm not taking swings at anyone.

_________________________
"I am not a mechanism, an assembly of various sections.
And it is not because the mechanism is working wrongly, that I am ill.
I am ill because of wounds to the soul, to the deep emotional self...."
Healing D.H. Lawrence

Top
#148967 - 04/04/07 10:27 PM Re: Kathy Lee on Today show [Re: tartugas]
Still Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/16/07
Posts: 6602
Loc: FEMA Region 1
OK....I'm remaining calm over here Tartu....

This is one of the things i fear most about my disclosure....(still remaining calm)...

The Segmment-Producer or Show-Producer ought to be approached abou this...don't you think?

remaining calm....

but get the gaskets ready..cuz i my blow some...



Edited by Robbie Brown (04/04/07 10:29 PM)
_________________________
I'm "that guy."

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#148972 - 04/04/07 10:57 PM Re: Kathy Lee on Today show [Re: Still]
tartugas Offline
Board Member
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 02/11/07
Posts: 513
Loc: NYC
stay calm bro. stay calm.

I'm working on it.

_________________________
"I am not a mechanism, an assembly of various sections.
And it is not because the mechanism is working wrongly, that I am ill.
I am ill because of wounds to the soul, to the deep emotional self...."
Healing D.H. Lawrence

Top
#148975 - 04/04/07 11:07 PM Re: Kathy Lee on Today show [Re: tartugas]
tartugas Offline
Board Member
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 02/11/07
Posts: 513
Loc: NYC
Here is the letter I'm going to send to the Today show. Please feel free to copy and paste from it at your leisure if you would like to contact the shows yourselves (and I'd encourage all of us to... \:\) ).

Remember, anger, though a perfectly jsutifiable feeling, is not a good response. In point of fact Ms. Gifford and the Today show did something very GOOD in bringing attention to the scourge of abuse. What I'd like to see more of (and I think many of you will join me in this) is wanting to see more information made available to victims and much less "victim hazing".

April 4, 2007

My name is Chris. I am a survivor of childhood sexual abuse. I want to bring to your attention some comments that aired during the Today show broadcast on Wednesday April 4, 2007 that struck me deeply. In a segment about the organization Childhelp, Ann Curry interviewed Kathie Lee Gifford. During the brief segment both women made the assertion that victims of abuse become abusers themselves.

The statement was made casually, almost nonchalantly, reflecting an unquestioned assumption that many people have in our society. This statement is also factually wrong. In his book, "Beyond Betrayal" Dr. Richard Gartner, PhD. states the following: "Research suggests that ALTHOUGH many male abusers were sexually victimized as boys only a small minority of these boys goes on to become sexual predators (p. 144)". Similar quotes can be found supporting the truth that victims do NOT go on to become abusers in a great majority of cases.

Although I certainly applaud and wholeheartedly support the efforts made by Ms. Gifford, and the Childhelp organization, the sad truth is that far too much of our attention remains focused upon ineffectual attempts at protection before the crime and tragically difficult persecution after the crime. The result is that very little advice and information gets out in the media to the people who need it most -- the victims.

Such silence about the needs of victims, coupled with statements such as those made by Ms. Curry and Ms Gifford stigmatize victims. In point of fact, perpetrating the myth that victims themselves are the ones responsible for continuing the cycle of abuse only makes it harder for those of us who have suffered to come forward and ask for the help that we need to heal.

Please know that I am very grateful to the Today show for its long history of airing stories that try to open up our nation's eyes to the hidden, silent dangers all around us. That said, I feel I cannot remain silent when a statement made on national television by people who are so well known strikes such a false note. If you would wish to learn more about the needs of victims, please feel free to contact me. I can gladly provide you with a wide array of resources.

Sincerely,


Christopher _________




Edited by tartugas (04/04/07 11:08 PM)
_________________________
"I am not a mechanism, an assembly of various sections.
And it is not because the mechanism is working wrongly, that I am ill.
I am ill because of wounds to the soul, to the deep emotional self...."
Healing D.H. Lawrence

Top
#148990 - 04/05/07 01:10 AM Re: Kathy Lee on Today show [Re: tartugas]
tartugas Offline
Board Member
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 02/11/07
Posts: 513
Loc: NYC
Hi everyone,

I'm still working finding a good contact at the Today show, but you can send an email to Kathie Lee Gifford here:

http://www.kathieleegifford.com/lamb04/mailbag.php?mailbagrequest=submit

PLEASE remember - this is not about yelling at anyone. No one has done anything bad here. All Ms. Gifford did was say something ignorant. We should be thanking her for the work she does do on behalf of abused children already, but try to make her aware that it is just as important to not stigmatize victims in the way that she did. As well, we must all work much harder to help victims find the support they need to speak up and the information they need to heal.

We want to educate, and no one listens when the teacher is screaming.

_________________________
"I am not a mechanism, an assembly of various sections.
And it is not because the mechanism is working wrongly, that I am ill.
I am ill because of wounds to the soul, to the deep emotional self...."
Healing D.H. Lawrence

Top
#148992 - 04/05/07 02:48 AM Re: Kathy Lee on Today show [Re: tartugas]
Leosha Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 06/18/03
Posts: 3614
Loc: Right here
Posted at 'Kathie Lee's site':

On April 4, you made an appearance on the 'Today' show, to discuss a charity which aims to help children who are victims of child abuse. Although I think, that it is a cause well worthy of being more addressed, an error, I believe grave error, was made during your discussion with Ann Curry.

While you were speaking of the numbers of children who will be abused, and the frequency, Ms. Curry interjected that 'and many will become abusers as well'. You quickly agreed with this statement. This is, in fact, an error which I feel does disservice to those adult survivors of child abuse who are working diligently at reconstructing their lives. It is a factual statement, that most abusers have been abused themselves. However, it is also factual that the majority of children who have been abused will NOT grow up to abuse others. There is a distinct difference in these two facts.

Per Dr. Richard Gartner, PHD, in his book 'Beyond Betrayal', he remarks on page 144 that although many male abusers (sexual) have been victimized as boys, only a small minority will go on to become abusers themselves. Although Dr. Gartner's book is primarily about male survivors of sexual abuse, I am sure with minimal research, you could discover similar statistics of other kinds of abuse as well.

As a male survivor of physical, emotional, and sexual abuse myself, I have seen the misconceptions many people have of male survivors; that we will, indeed, be abusers ourselves is a very common and hurtful one. You are a person fortunate enough to have the power of 'celebrity' behind you in your charitable endeavors. Please do, use this power wisely, and to do what you can to correctly educate the public of this traumatic subject, not to assist in perpetuating old and inaccurate stereotypes.

Thank you, very much.

Leosha

_________________________
Avatar photo in memory of my younger brother Makar.

"Human salvation lies in the hands of the creatively maladjusted."~~~Martin Luther King Jr., 1963

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#148993 - 04/05/07 02:49 AM Re: Kathy Lee on Today show [Re: Leosha]
Still Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/16/07
Posts: 6602
Loc: FEMA Region 1
well put!!!

_________________________
I'm "that guy."

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#149000 - 04/05/07 05:25 AM Re: Kathy Lee on Today show [Re: Leosha]
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
I'm sure this point is also made in Mike Lew's book too, but I don't have my copy to hand to look it up. The "vampire myth", as it's called, is also debunked in a great list of CSA myths that's right here on the site - or used to be here. I can't find it at the moment, but it must be around somewhere.

As you start disclosing and losing your sense of shame and guilt about the abuse, guys, you do encounter people who will quite innocently fall into the trap of the vampire myth. One of my closest friends on earth did that; I disclosed to him and he almost immediately asked me if I wasn't afraid of becoming an abuser myself now. That would have freaked me out pretty good awhile back, but now I can see it as an opportunity to set someone straight. That's what I did, and my friend took it all very well and was grateful to me for clarifying the point for him.

If you find yourself in this situation it's pretty easy to illustrate the false logic of the vampire myth. "Most abusers have been abused as boys, therefore abused boys are likely to turn into abusers as adults" - that's like saying the following: "People who drown got wet first, therefore people who get wet are likely to drown".

I like the emphasis in this thread on educating the public without taking offense. We get a lot further with the public if they see us coming at them with concern that they be properly informed rather than indignation at an honest - and VERY common - mistake.

Much love,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

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#149008 - 04/05/07 07:56 AM Re: Kathy Lee on Today show [Re: roadrunner]
onlyakid Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/31/04
Posts: 1552
Loc: New Jersey
When other people send in emails, it might be better to have different quotes from different sources (books). You can easily do this by using google book search

http://books.google.com/

search for victims go on to become abusers

_________________________
"Being with people that understand you...Priceless"

"and i don't want the world to see me, cause i don't think that they'd understand"

"You don't know what love is...you just do as your told"

"My life has changed. What you take as a simple thing, is not so simple for me anymore"


Top
#149022 - 04/05/07 09:36 AM Re: Kathy Lee on Today show [Re: onlyakid]
Muldoon Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/30/02
Posts: 1428
Loc: St Paul MN
Guys Can we start a thread to Ann called, Ann I am not a Abuser.

We can start the thread with a simple statement trying to educate her. Then we can all add our one or two line replys to it. We can email the link to the thread to Ann.

If we have 20 or 30 names on this list it would make her know she has wronged many survivors.

Tom



Edited by Muldoon (04/05/07 09:38 AM)
_________________________
Teach the Children to Never Hide in the Silence

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#149026 - 04/05/07 10:04 AM Re: Kathy Lee on Today show [Re: Muldoon]
tartugas Offline
Board Member
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 02/11/07
Posts: 513
Loc: NYC
Great idea Tom. If it's not already started I will start it when I finish this.

Leosha,

Great letter! Thanks for sharing. This is exactly the kind of thing we need to do. I hope you letter will inspire more to write something similar in tone and message!

Larry,

Can you come up with some more examples of the logical fallacy at play in the "vampire myth"?

Keep up the work everyone! ANd please let everyone you trust know and encourage them to contact Ms. Gifford and the Today show.

_________________________
"I am not a mechanism, an assembly of various sections.
And it is not because the mechanism is working wrongly, that I am ill.
I am ill because of wounds to the soul, to the deep emotional self...."
Healing D.H. Lawrence

Top
#149027 - 04/05/07 10:11 AM Re: Kathy Lee on Today show [Re: tartugas]
Still Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/16/07
Posts: 6602
Loc: FEMA Region 1
PERFECT TOM!!!

Dramatic effect!!!

_________________________
I'm "that guy."

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#149078 - 04/05/07 12:19 PM Re: Kathy Lee on Today show [Re: tartugas]
reality2k4 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/06/04
Posts: 6838
Loc: Stuck between water, air, and ...
You can find it in the resource section of the site.
The invisible boy can be downloaded for free, just
google to it,

ste


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