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#147674 - 03/29/07 07:17 PM status report from the roller coaster
tartugas Offline
Board Member
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 02/11/07
Posts: 513
Loc: NYC
So the roller coaster ride is longer and curvier this tome around. After feeling much better yesterday, feelings of panic, anxiety, fear, and crushing loneliness returned again today. Fortunately I found some time to write and reflect this afternoon which has helped. A little analysis blended with acceptance proves to be a healthy mix for me. Sharing the results with you and hearing your empathy, sympathy, and responses is another important piece of the puzzle that carries me through.

I understand now that this cycle of pain and despair is likely to continue as i go deeper into this stage of my journey. My hope is not lose myself to it. And in an attempt to that I will keep posting here and reaching out to my friends. I only ask that if tatugas makes a mysterious disappearance for more than a few days that some one reach out. I don't mean to sound melodramatic, but I know my patterns, adnI know how easy it might be for me to "go into the shell". Not that any of you are responsible to keep me going, that's my job, of course.

I was swarmed with fatigue and depair and anger at times today. At first I fought against them, hoping to push them away through sheer force of hope and effort. I realized that this was only making things worse and draining me more than necessary. Finally I accepted that I might indeed be justified in feeling lonely, feeling isolated, and feeling alone. Not that I am any of these things, but the feelings are valid and not to be attacked. In short, I took my own advice and allowed my own feelingsthe validity they deserved.

The second I did so I had a flash of a feeilng -- something like the kid exhaling and letting down his guard a bit. And the moment I allowed the sadness to wash over me, I found the strength go on writing, and was able to see - if not necessarily a way out -- then at least a vision of myself as a whole person. Broken perhaps, bleary eyed nd exhausted, but whole and capable of going on.

Each day will be its own adventure. I see that now. And the struggle will defintely be harder than anticipated. The sheer number of people who "don't understand" or can't "get it" when I talk about what I'm experiencing and what my abuse has done to me can be disheartening. And at times, especially when I swing unexpectedly from a good feeling, it's doubly hard to remember and allow myself the freedom to feel down. But day by day I'm finding it a little easier to trust myself, accept the truth of waht I feel, and reach out for support.

_________________________
"I am not a mechanism, an assembly of various sections.
And it is not because the mechanism is working wrongly, that I am ill.
I am ill because of wounds to the soul, to the deep emotional self...."
Healing D.H. Lawrence

Top
#147700 - 03/29/07 10:05 PM Re: status report from the roller coaster [Re: tartugas]
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
Tartugas,

I hope you make a copy of this post and keep it in your wallet for the days when things feel especially bad. You have hit so many points dead on! Especially this one:

Originally Posted By: tartugas
But day by day I'm finding it a little easier to trust myself, accept the truth of what I feel, and reach out for support.


THAT, my friend, is the whole shooting match. \:\)

Much love,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

Top
#147722 - 03/30/07 12:47 AM Re: status report from the roller coaster [Re: roadrunner]
tartugas Offline
Board Member
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 02/11/07
Posts: 513
Loc: NYC
Thanks Larry. It's a huge help to know that I'm not totally off my rocker. A lot of this stuff seems right to me, but I need to be careful abotu not thinking myself into a corner.

I'm so scared to face this stuff. I'm seeing my T tomorrow, and part of me want to back out. I know what this next stage will require of me. I'm scared to open myself up that much to the pain. I'm scared to be that vulnerable. I'm scared to go back in time, drop all the defenses that have gotten me this far and, in a kind of way start from scratch all over again.

Don't leave me guys. I need you. Please.

_________________________
"I am not a mechanism, an assembly of various sections.
And it is not because the mechanism is working wrongly, that I am ill.
I am ill because of wounds to the soul, to the deep emotional self...."
Healing D.H. Lawrence

Top
#147774 - 03/30/07 08:42 AM Re: status report from the roller coaster [Re: tartugas]
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
Chris,

I hope it will help you to know that ANY survivor who'se in the place where you are now is scared of facing his issues. It's normal to panic even at the thought of going to our T at first. What we are doing is running all the old tapes we had as boys, telling us what failures we were and how worthless we were. Sure, people now tell us that'snot true and that's what all the books say. But knowing something and believing in it are very different things.

Therapy and recovery are all about going from "knowing" the truth to believing in it and trusting it as something we can use to rebuild our lives. It takes time, but it does happen.

Hang in there and now you aren't alone - not ever.

Much love,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

Top
#147780 - 03/30/07 09:44 AM Re: status report from the roller coaster [Re: roadrunner]
pietie Offline
Guest

Registered: 01/23/07
Posts: 326
Loc: South Africa
T

I dont have any advice for you only that I am going through exactly the same thing right now. So at the fear that my advice will be turned against me :-) I will only say that you are not alone in this.

But I want to tell you that you make such a valuable contribution in here, and especially to me personally, so please dont make any "mysterious dissapearance".

_________________________
Not Perfect, just forgiven

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#147783 - 03/30/07 10:28 AM Re: status report from the roller coaster [Re: pietie]
Muldoon Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/30/02
Posts: 1428
Loc: St Paul MN
Tartugas
Just want to let you know that there is great help for you in NYC.
St Lukes Crime Victims Treatment Center at 114th and Amsterdam has free help. They have group and one on one sessions and it may be a place for you to network with other survivors. Thier phone # is 212-523-4728

Recovery truly is a wild rollercoster ride and I undertstand how easey it is to go into our shells. I have been working on this for 5 years now and I just want to say that recovery does take time but it is wroth every effort to get better.

Keep your head out in the sun shine. Tom

_________________________
Teach the Children to Never Hide in the Silence

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#147788 - 03/30/07 10:57 AM Re: status report from the roller coaster [Re: Muldoon]
tartugas Offline
Board Member
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 02/11/07
Posts: 513
Loc: NYC
Tom,

Thank you for you kind words. In point of fact, I have called St. Vincent's twice and received absolutely no help from them whatsoever. They may very well be a wonderful resource for people in crisis, but they simply are not equipped to handle the needs of someone who needs information and assistence finding more in depth help. Especially not men. I've asked them twice for asistence in finding groups for male survivors, and they had no information whatsoever.

I have to be careful, because thinking about them is beginning to make my blood boil. I live in New York Fucking CIty, you'd think it would be realtively easy to find a group here. I know, I know... go make one I hear hundreds of supportive voices encourage me. Fuck that... I'm sick and tired of having to do ALL the fucking work. Where the hell is the help I need? HOW AM I SUPPOSED TO FIND WHAT I NEED IN A WORLD THAT DISMISSES AND REJECTS THE LEGITIMATE NEEDS OF ME AS A MAN WHO IS A SURVIVOR? I LIVE IN NEW YORK CITY! WHERE ARE THE GROUPS?

I went to church, spoke to a pastor and elder, shared my strory with them. You know what they did? They stopped talking to me for 2 months? Is it because they got scared off by my story? They wouldn't say that, but the truth of the matter is that they couldnt' hear and respond to what I was asking for. And you know what I was asking for? I was asking for help. I asked the church for fucking help and those bastard turned their back on me!

This si so at teh heart of our struggles. Every single one of us here. WE have to fight ourselves so much on a daily, hourly basis, it's unjust that these difficulties are compunded bty the ignorance and apathy of the world around us. Oh sure, accuse a priest of a pastor of doing anything wrong, and all of a sudden the sleepy electorate come out of their diabetic comas and begin to shout at the top of their lungs in defense of the person so visciously "slandered". WHAT ABOUT ME? WHAT ABOUT US? WHAT ABOUT THE VICTIMS!

(See Robbie, you're not the only one who can use all caps)

Tom, I'm sorry, please understand that I'm not in anyway angry at you. And it is not you're fault in anyway for upsetting me. This needs to come out. I need to get angry. I've never let my anger come out. When I was five, I was put into group therapy in the county mental hospital once a month with a couple of other young boys whose temper tantrums were labelled uncontrollable. I was taught over and over again not to lash out. I think I had my anger response somehow trained out of me. All I know for sure is that, ever since then I stopped having tantrums and started internalizing everything. I couldn't get angry any more. I have never gotten into a physical fight since I was in kindergarten. I used to tell myself, and other people, that I wouldn't do it, I was scared that if I turned on the anger I wouldn't stop until someone was seriously harmed. Where does that thinking come from?

I NEED HELP. I'm sick and tired of asking for it. I'm going to see my therpist like a good little doobie today (actually he is a godsend to me, and I do not in any way wish to imply that I don't like him). But the point is that, again, I'm doing all the hard work. I know, I know, haven't I always preached to everyone else about how "it's our responsibility to do the work of healing". Yes I have. And you know what, screw it, it doesn't mean we can't be angry abotu it. I'm angry because my parent's stopped stopped holding me after I was ohhhh... maybe a month old? (I have only ever seen one pictuer of their tender caring, and I had to have been almost a newborn in the picture, so young I couldn't recognize myself). I'm angry because it's all on me. I'm angry becasue when I come here and poist asking for help I get almost NO response from you guys! What the hell? I can start a discussion with some of you guys that can last for 70 pages when printed out, but when I ASK for help. WHen I PLEAD for your encouragement. WHEN I MAKE IT CLEAR THAT I'M RUNNING OFF THE RAILS EVERYONE SEEMS TO RUN AND HIDE. WHAT AM I DOING WRONG? WHY AM I SCARING ALL OF YOU? I can't be the great and wise writer everyday who's insights bring solace and help to everyone. I'm just as broken and shatterd on the inside as all of you. Where is the support. Where is the help? I can't believe that I'm actually stepping out of my shell and asking for it, and yet time and tiem again all I get back is silence. Oh sure I can make a controversial statement abotu forgiveness and all of asudden everyone comes runnig out of the woodwork. Why haven't I heard from my brothers from napa? Does everyone actually hate the turtle and are you all too scred to be honest with me?

What is going on? I need support. It's back enough I have to ask for it. Don't make me strip myself naked and get down on my knees. I'm beggin you guys. Don't leave me hanging like this.

_________________________
"I am not a mechanism, an assembly of various sections.
And it is not because the mechanism is working wrongly, that I am ill.
I am ill because of wounds to the soul, to the deep emotional self...."
Healing D.H. Lawrence

Top
#147792 - 03/30/07 10:59 AM Re: status report from the roller coaster [Re: tartugas]
tartugas Offline
Board Member
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 02/11/07
Posts: 513
Loc: NYC
Apparently all i need to do is trheaten to leave like mack did and then i'll get everyone's help

_________________________
"I am not a mechanism, an assembly of various sections.
And it is not because the mechanism is working wrongly, that I am ill.
I am ill because of wounds to the soul, to the deep emotional self...."
Healing D.H. Lawrence

Top
#147794 - 03/30/07 11:02 AM Re: status report from the roller coaster [Re: tartugas]
tartugas Offline
Board Member
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 02/11/07
Posts: 513
Loc: NYC
kids,

The venting is a healthy part of what male survivor is all about. If anyone is coming here for the first time and seeing this rant, please do not for a second think that this si a bad place. The TRUTH is that I have been helped, IMMENSELY by this site and by the care and support I've received from my freind and brothers here.

But we are human, flawed, and in need of help. It's never wrong to cry out in the darkness. And what I just poisted in one of my cries. Part of what makes this place so good is that I can cry out like this.

That's not to say anyone who's read this post and held back from sending me their warm wishes is off the hook by the way.

_________________________
"I am not a mechanism, an assembly of various sections.
And it is not because the mechanism is working wrongly, that I am ill.
I am ill because of wounds to the soul, to the deep emotional self...."
Healing D.H. Lawrence

Top
#147795 - 03/30/07 11:04 AM Re: status report from the roller coaster [Re: tartugas]
reality2k4 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/06/04
Posts: 6838
Loc: Stuck between water, air, and ...
We wont leave you, but make space for feeling good of yourself.
Sometimes feelings can overwhelm you, so find a diversion when
it gets too much.

I wish for you better times,

ste


Top
#147797 - 03/30/07 11:20 AM Re: status report from the roller coaster [Re: tartugas]
Muldoon Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/30/02
Posts: 1428
Loc: St Paul MN
Tartugas
I am sorry that you have not gotten help from St Lukes. I have a friend that has been getting help from them and it is a little upsetting that they have given you NO HELP. They are getting Federal $$$ to help male survivor. When I was in NYC a few weeks ago I stoped in to see what they had for help. I thought that they had a group but I could be wrong. I will make a call and see if I can find out anything.

Tom

_________________________
Teach the Children to Never Hide in the Silence

Top
#147803 - 03/30/07 11:35 AM Re: status report from the roller coaster [Re: Muldoon]
Muldoon Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/30/02
Posts: 1428
Loc: St Paul MN
T I just got off the phone with Mikeal at St Luck and he said to have you give him a call right now and he would help. They do have a group. Pklease call him today I know he cares and will help you. Don't know who you talk to in the past but reach out again. Tom

_________________________
Teach the Children to Never Hide in the Silence

Top
#147805 - 03/30/07 11:41 AM Re: status report from the roller coaster [Re: tartugas]
Muldoon Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/30/02
Posts: 1428
Loc: St Paul MN
Quote:
That's not to say anyone who's read this post and held back from sending me their warm wishes is off the hook by the way.


Yes it is good to have this safe place and the great guys here to help you. Sometime we are so rapped up in our own world that we don't find time to help others but that doesn't mean that we don't care. Tom

_________________________
Teach the Children to Never Hide in the Silence

Top
#147807 - 03/30/07 11:43 AM Re: status report from the roller coaster [Re: Muldoon]
tartugas Offline
Board Member
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 02/11/07
Posts: 513
Loc: NYC
Tom,

My apologies... you said St. Luke's. In the heat of my anger I thought you said St. Vincent's. St. Vincent's has a rape/crisis center that I was referred to in the past (and in point of fact is the primary resource on the NYC coalition against domestic violence webiste) I promise I will give St LUKE's a call after I return from my therpist's appointment today.

Thank you so much for following up and making an effort on my behalf. I cannot express how grateful I am.

_________________________
"I am not a mechanism, an assembly of various sections.
And it is not because the mechanism is working wrongly, that I am ill.
I am ill because of wounds to the soul, to the deep emotional self...."
Healing D.H. Lawrence

Top
#147808 - 03/30/07 12:08 PM Re: status report from the roller coaster [Re: tartugas]
Muldoon Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/30/02
Posts: 1428
Loc: St Paul MN
Glad That I was able to help you get a little anger out before your T session.

"Thank you so much for following up and making an effort on my behalf. I cannot express how grateful I am."

It is all part of giving back. I have gotten so much help in the past from other these last few years and in the furture you will be able to give back to others for the help you have gotten. Tom

_________________________
Teach the Children to Never Hide in the Silence

Top
#147819 - 03/30/07 12:53 PM Re: status report from the roller coaster [Re: reality2k4]
Rabbit Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/07/05
Posts: 91
Loc: San Francisco
Chris,

As I flop about on the cold, hard ground like a fish out of water, I understand your venting, share you frustration and wish that life could be different.

But it's not for me. Each day that I flail about wildly with my senses open to what's going on around me, I have a chance to actually sense what IS going on around me rather than what is getting through my distorted filters of rational thought that I created years ago to explain why they could do that to my body and it just not fucking matter to anyone.

I don't have a point, other than I feel your frustration.

Here's to this day, this breath. May it be enough.

Sending compassion across the continent,
Randy

P.S. (God, am I king of the run on sentence or what?)

_________________________
Your love should never be offered to the mouth of a stranger

Only to someone who has the valor and daring to cut pieces of their soul off with a knife then weave them into a blanket to protect you

There are different wells within us, some fill with each good rain

Others are far, far too deep for that

Top
#147827 - 03/30/07 03:07 PM Re: status report from the roller coaster [Re: Rabbit]
tartugas Offline
Board Member
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 02/11/07
Posts: 513
Loc: NYC
Thanks again guys.

Randy,

It's good to hear from you. You empathy is enough to keep me going.

Everyone else.

If you have read this thread and felt anything at all in your heart, just tell me. I don't need advice, I'm ok and moving through this step by step. I don't need guidence. I NEEP SUPPORT. I NEED ACKNOWLEDGEMENT. Trust me, no matter how bad you might feel or how unworthy of speaking up, or that your words might sound hollow. Just say them. The power of your conncetion to me will help us bpth. You'll lift me up by your presence, and you will feel strengthened and affirmed even by the simple act of saying, "I hear you."

I need to know other people are hearing me.

Thank you,
Chris

_________________________
"I am not a mechanism, an assembly of various sections.
And it is not because the mechanism is working wrongly, that I am ill.
I am ill because of wounds to the soul, to the deep emotional self...."
Healing D.H. Lawrence

Top
#147829 - 03/30/07 03:23 PM Re: status report from the roller coaster [Re: tartugas]
FormerTexan Offline
Site Administrator
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 09/12/04
Posts: 10951
Loc: Denver, CO
Chris,

Everything you are saying here is valid. I find myself relating to parts of it, as always.

_________________________
List of things ain't nobody got time for:

1. That


If I could meet myself as a boy...

Top
#147831 - 03/30/07 03:32 PM Re: status report from the roller coaster [Re: tartugas]
EGL Offline
Moderator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 06/19/04
Posts: 7819
Chris,

I did feel something as I read this. I truly am sorry for what you are going through with this. My heart sank at hearing what kind of response you got from your church. Sadly, I received a similar response from mine, so I can understand your frustration. The one place that we would think should be a place of compassion and understanding, and all we get are blank looks, silence, and left with a feeling like they just want us to go away so that they aren't made to feel uncomfortable any more.

I hear you, Chris, loud and clear. I hear you and understand you.

_________________________
Eddie

Top
#147833 - 03/30/07 03:34 PM Re: status report from the roller coaster [Re: tartugas]
reality2k4 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/06/04
Posts: 6838
Loc: Stuck between water, air, and ...
Chris, you got the support, we all support you like we always would.
I live on the other side of the pond and I lit my candle for anyone who is hurting.

Its not easy to react so well in the situation, but you are in my thoughts.
I guess maybe there is something you are not telling us.
Am I right?

It sounds pretty deep to me, but I/we are here,

ste


Top
#147857 - 03/30/07 07:02 PM Re: status report from the roller coaster [Re: Muldoon]
tartugas Offline
Board Member
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 02/11/07
Posts: 513
Loc: NYC
bump.

i will not let this topic go away. go back and read through what i've said. i refuse to believe that so many of my brothers would simply not say anything to me.

7 seven ogf my brohter s have stepped up and answered my plea... seven.

seven out of 3,000. of whom hundreds are current active members?

where are you?

_________________________
"I am not a mechanism, an assembly of various sections.
And it is not because the mechanism is working wrongly, that I am ill.
I am ill because of wounds to the soul, to the deep emotional self...."
Healing D.H. Lawrence

Top
#147858 - 03/30/07 07:05 PM Re: status report from the roller coaster [Re: tartugas]
Nobbynobs Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 06/26/05
Posts: 1286
Loc: Toronto
Tartugas,

All I can do is refer you to the Nouwen book that I recommended. He describes the exact symptoms that you have described and he also describes what you must do...beyond that I can say that I'm rooting for you, dude.

_________________________
When you go up to the bell, ring it! Or don't go up to the bell.

- Mel Brooks

Top
#147861 - 03/30/07 07:49 PM Re: status report from the roller coaster [Re: tartugas]
EGL Offline
Moderator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 06/19/04
Posts: 7819
Originally Posted By: tartugas
In short, I took my own advice and allowed my own feelings the validity they deserved.


Chris,

I went back and read your original post, and this line struck me upon the second reading. I wonder if you can fully fathom how significant that is what you wrote. That is, I think, a major issue for so many abuse survivors (myself included). So many of us feel like our feelings don't matter, which is, of course, a direct result of the abuse which was pounding us over the head with that message. The fact that you can get beyond that is not insignificant.

** APPLAUSE FOR CHRIS ** \:\)

_________________________
Eddie

Top
#147867 - 03/30/07 09:24 PM Re: status report from the roller coaster [Re: tartugas]
lostandfound Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/01/07
Posts: 148
Loc: Singularity
Okay turtle man,

You want acknowledgement, you want encouragement and you want help? Let me tell you something, I am right where you are right now. I've spent 22 years of my life living a lie. Wearing a mask so no could see how I'm rotting from the inside out. My own wife cringes in fear because she said and did somethings that triggered me. She said that during an arguement I kept looking at knives on the counter then at her. I didn't see her I saw my abuser's cock. I felt his iron hand forcing me down.

Goddamnit, I need help too. I don't know what to say. I feel so ill-equiped to help anyone because I cannot help myself. Listen close; I LOVE YOU. Yep, i do love you. I want to help you and I can definately hear you. You are justified in your anger. You have that right and so do I. I don't know why men get the shit end of the deal when it comes to getting CSA help. I think that the help you want I don't have the ability to provide. It PAINS me to know that you think ONLY 7 have responded. Instead of it is so great that 7 of my brothers are hearing me.

Maybe I am way off base, but hardly anyone listens to me. I feel good that one listens. RR discounts advice I give so do I say screw you all? NO. Everyone here is my brother based on this one shitty, filthy commonality that brought us hear. Do you or I need to hear from all 3,000? I feel so sick at the moment for what has been done to us and I'm bleeding inside just like you. I don't fully understand. I'm just sorry. I'm just wishing that I knew how to help. I just wish you could see that you are not alone. I wish you knew how much I am like you. Goddamnit I'm frustrated and angry and IT'S FUCKING NUTS.

I'm sorry. I gotta grab a smoke. by-the-way, I work monday-friday and a whole lot of saturdays. I can't sit here responding to threads all day though I wish I could. Sometimes I need to.

-lost

_________________________
"I'm not suppose to be like this, but it's okay!" -REM

Top
#147876 - 03/30/07 09:39 PM Re: status report from the roller coaster [Re: lostandfound]
FormerTexan Offline
Site Administrator
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 09/12/04
Posts: 10951
Loc: Denver, CO
Chris,

Of course, you already know I PMd you today. But to accent what lostandfound said, if I hear from seven of the people on this site, I feel like I have hit the jackpot! Seven people who gave a flip about average me - that would be wonderful to me! Now, you have more than seven, but there's other factors to keep in mind why you haven't heard from more which really would only take up space on this thread. But if seven people responded to me, that communicates to me that I mattered enough to them to be worth a few measly words and a few measly minutes of their time. I have a background where I was taught by family and society that I was worth zip - zero - zilch. I have PMs saved from people from two years ago because their words to me were a cool sip of water in an arrid, cruel world. They are gold to me. I no longer hear from some of them, yet their words are saved until whenever.

_________________________
List of things ain't nobody got time for:

1. That


If I could meet myself as a boy...

Top
#147889 - 03/30/07 10:50 PM Re: status report from the roller coaster [Re: FormerTexan]
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
Chris,

Just a word of advice from someone who has posted a few times: Please don't fall into the trap of equating the number of replies you get to a thread with the value of that thread or the interest of the rest of the group in what you are saying.

Many times a guy will like what he reads but feel unable to come up with a reply, or he may consider that he has nothing to add, or he may feel uncomfortable about posting for this or that reason. None of that has anything to do with his interest in or support for the guy who started the thread.

So many times there's just no rhyme or reason to why one thread flourishes and another flops. There have been times when I made some innane and pretty useless comment, as a joke, and it just caught fire and rumbled along for 50-80 posts. Just people fooling around - nothing substantial. And on other occasions I have started a thread I thought was important, only to have it crash and burn - no replies at all!

Please don't take this kind of thing personally. Sometimes the DB seems to have a life all its own.

Much love,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

Top
#147921 - 03/31/07 02:37 AM Re: status report from the roller coaster [Re: roadrunner]
tartugas Offline
Board Member
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 02/11/07
Posts: 513
Loc: NYC
Lost, extx, and RR

AND RoadRunner, pieite, muldoon, nobs, ste, rabbit, and egl

My brothers I hear you. And I feel your love and support. And it means the world to me. I don't in any way mean to demean the love and support you offer to me or to make it seem like I am unsatisfied with th love your have shared with me. You all have a special place in my heart, right next to all my napa brothers (even though I've only heard back from one so far....)

Here's my greater point.... The absolute tragedy is that in a self-selective society of over 3,000 members there is no reason we should feel satisfied that 10 or of our family should respond to our pointed, plaintive, and clear pleas for support. Nine. That's .2% of the popualtion of this community. Do you honestly meant to tell me that as a human being you are would be satisfied if .2% of your friends and family came to your aid when you were crying out in the darkness for help? WHat have I said that is harmful or hurtful to anyone? Have I called anyone a name? What have I done but beg for recognition. Where is the sin in that?

I'm sorry, but I won't accept that .2% is a sufficient response. So far over 50 people have viewed this thread at a conservative estimate. How much effort would it take someone who has read these my words to simple say, "I hear you." THAT'S ALL I'M ASKING FOR!

I understand why people run away in anger from this site. But I won't. I have too much invested here. And I believe too deeply in the inherent goodness of everyone who is a member here.

I'm disheartened. I'm sorry. My brothers are better than this. I know it.





Edited by tartugas (03/31/07 03:20 AM)
_________________________
"I am not a mechanism, an assembly of various sections.
And it is not because the mechanism is working wrongly, that I am ill.
I am ill because of wounds to the soul, to the deep emotional self...."
Healing D.H. Lawrence

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#147924 - 03/31/07 03:04 AM Re: status report from the roller coaster [Re: tartugas]
VN Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 06/03/05
Posts: 723
well. I read this, and respond, even as I do not feel 'up to' responding to nothing right now.

There are many reasons why people do not respond to a post. Some are not here. Some do not have computer right now. Some are busy. Some are sick. Some are, all they can handle, is to look to read, and understand. Some have no words. Some are barely 'hanging on' themself right then. Some are perhaps not members, but here anonymously to look at what this site is for.

Is it more importent, I wonder, to say what it is you need to say here, and have it released of you, or to have it responded to? The tree in the forest, even with no one to hear it, still make the sound. Very much of what I post here, it do not get so much reponds either. But that it is released of me, that I have been able to 'say' it at all, it is gift of itself. If someone read it and understand me, it is even better. If someone read it and respond, even more. But I do not post with expectations of response at all.

I am sorry you been disappointed. But as someone who come here, and still have fear to speak at all sometime, who is barely 'hanging on' right now, I do best I can do here. I think others, I try to have faith they do the same.

You are heard. Truly.

VN


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#147936 - 03/31/07 04:56 AM Re: status report from the roller coaster [Re: VN]
Brian Offline
Moderator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 05/03/01
Posts: 1563
Loc: Upstate NY
Tartugas,

I hear your anger and frustration. I'm sorry that you are having a difficult time. You are in my thoughts and prayers.

Brian

_________________________
Recovery is Possible!

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#147940 - 03/31/07 08:33 AM Re: status report from the roller coaster [Re: Brian]
lostandfound Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/01/07
Posts: 148
Loc: Singularity
Tartugas,

I apologize for becoming angry last night. Please know that I meant nothing by my language. I understand your point about only .2% of the community responding. When you look at the whole community it does seem like a rather low percentage. My point about having 7 brothers respond was mostly shock on my part. When I started coming here I was shocked that anyone would respond at all.

When you PM'd a response to me the other day about how I'm lucky to have remembered a time before the abuse. I am lucky in that respect. However, my dad was always phyically abusive and do not remember a time when he wasn't. However, I was lucky to have little brothers to play with and before the abuse I do have some good memories. i am sorry that you do not.

You are older than I and seemingly very wise. I did not nor do I believe that anyone else meant any thing by pointing out your wisdom. Sometimes we tend to believe that people with so much wisdom have no problems and that can be a horrible burden. You do have problems and need the shoulder to lean on and to cry on.

All I can offer is what I have to offer you. that is my friendship, my love, and my support. if you need anything from me and I am able I will certainly do it. I laid in bed last night lamenting my words to you with much regret. I thought about your loneliness and pain. I wish I had been kinder to you. One thing that I have realized by comming here is that we all seem to be mirror images of each other in one way or another. The anger and lonelieness is truely a ubiquitious evil. Do what you need to do and REST ASSURED that if i don't see you on this site for a while I'm going to post and post and post until you respond.

Lean on us, those who responded did so because we do care and were able to respond. And don't think for a minute that the ones who haven't don't care. You know as well as I that when your self esteem is so low that no matter how many times you, tartugas, say respond, i don't care what you say just respond, that some of us will say to ourselves I'm not good enough. Or, something to that effect.

I don't mean to hurt your feelings, but I reached out to my brothers here earlier in the week and you didn't respond to me. Am I to believe that you don't care? No i don't believe that. You are going through your own pit of despair and I think nothing of that fact you didn't respond to me. We all do what we can and are able to do. If only .2% of the community respond to you that's .4% of the communities shoulders to lean on. You are very well thought of here. Please go easy on yourself. Let me know if I can do anything.

-lost

_________________________
"I'm not suppose to be like this, but it's okay!" -REM

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#147941 - 03/31/07 08:39 AM Re: status report from the roller coaster [Re: tartugas]
lostandfound Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/01/07
Posts: 148
Loc: Singularity
One more thing, I really don't think that you have done anything or said anything to hurt anyone. There is NO SIN except for the abuse that was done unto you.

-lost

_________________________
"I'm not suppose to be like this, but it's okay!" -REM

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#147942 - 03/31/07 08:44 AM Re: status report from the roller coaster [Re: lostandfound]
pietie Offline
Guest

Registered: 01/23/07
Posts: 326
Loc: South Africa
Tartugas

I would love to respond to this post a 100 times, but that would be defeating the object. A while ago i was in a really bad state and i posted the following poem:

"Would you walk beside me and hold my hand?
Be a pillar when alone I cant stand.
Carry me to see the light again.
Share with me the joy and pain.
Would you do that for me
and share in the release when I am free.
Tell me now as i need to be sure.
will you assist me to endure?"

Well needelss to say i had a grand total of 4 responses. I express myself best in poetry so to me its similar to this board. So from my request to stand by me i got that response.

I dont want you to leave. Stay here even only for me because i need you, there is so many things you are able to put into words that i am not, even though i feel exactly the same.

I am with you in this!

_________________________
Not Perfect, just forgiven

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#147944 - 03/31/07 08:49 AM Re: status report from the roller coaster [Re: lostandfound]
lostandfound Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/01/07
Posts: 148
Loc: Singularity
Sorry, i can't get you out of my head right now.

Tuesday, my wife came to therapy with me. My therapist said that I had a lot to be pissed about. My wife, who is my shoulder to lean on, kept getting angry at me because, of well just a lot of shit that I am doing. Anyway, it really helped her to hear me explain what I feel and to hear the therapist further explain and counsel me.

My wife will never fully understand, but she is trying. Everyone needs support at different times and in different ways. We are learning to recover and we are all learning New ways to survive.

I asked in my plea for help that if you fall 1000 times is it possible to stand up that 1001 time. RR responded yes. that's what I needed to hear. Did he know that is what I needed to hear? Probably not. He responded and he heard me. Well, I'm rambling now. Sorry about that.

I hope today is better. I'm going to mow my lawn and listen to MP3's now.

-lost

_________________________
"I'm not suppose to be like this, but it's okay!" -REM

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#147945 - 03/31/07 08:50 AM Re: status report from the roller coaster [Re: pietie]
lostandfound Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/01/07
Posts: 148
Loc: Singularity
Well put Pietie, I need you and tartugas too.

-lost

_________________________
"I'm not suppose to be like this, but it's okay!" -REM

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#147949 - 03/31/07 09:43 AM Re: status report from the roller coaster [Re: lostandfound]
FormerTexan Offline
Site Administrator
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 09/12/04
Posts: 10951
Loc: Denver, CO
Chris,

"What have I done but beg for recognition. Where is the sin in that?"

None whatsoever. I'd say most if not all of us grew up with chasms of emotional deprivation that can't be filled overnight. I think I was frustrated with what you said because I grew up with an "I'll take what I can get" approach to anything good, even a few crumbs. Granted, crumbs do not a chasm fill. However, when one is dying of hunger (emotionally-speaking) even crumbs are appealing. That could translate into many things, like even being considered second-best as long as I'm even considered.

You are definitely considered, and more so. You are valueable and loveable, as is everyone else here.

_________________________
List of things ain't nobody got time for:

1. That


If I could meet myself as a boy...

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#147959 - 03/31/07 10:27 AM Re: status report from the roller coaster [Re: lostandfound]
tartugas Offline
Board Member
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 02/11/07
Posts: 513
Loc: NYC
Originally Posted By: lostandfound
I don't mean to hurt your feelings, but I reached out to my brothers here earlier in the week and you didn't respond to me. Am I to believe that you don't care? No i don't believe that. You are going through your own pit of despair and I think nothing of that fact you didn't respond to me. We all do what we can and are able to do. If only .2% of the community respond to you that's .4% of the communities shoulders to lean on. You are very well thought of here. Please go easy on yourself. Let me know if I can do anything.


Lost,

Thank you for telling me this. I apologise for not reching out and offering you my shoulder. I know that it is hypocritical of my to stand up on my soapbox as I have, while not being able to respond to each and everyone here myself.

You are a true friend and a sensetive and strong man, as are so many others here. Your post moved me deeply this morning. I am humbled and grateful to you for your hionesty and openness. Your humble candor offers me much to learn. Please do not for another second worry that you in any way hurt me by anything you said. You have chastened me with your tolerant kindness, and enlightened me with your wisdom.

_________________________
"I am not a mechanism, an assembly of various sections.
And it is not because the mechanism is working wrongly, that I am ill.
I am ill because of wounds to the soul, to the deep emotional self...."
Healing D.H. Lawrence

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#147960 - 03/31/07 10:35 AM Re: status report from the roller coaster [Re: tartugas]
lostandfound Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/01/07
Posts: 148
Loc: Singularity
Tartugas,

I am so glad to hear from you. So, so glad to hear from you. You are my friend and I care about you. Thank you too for caring about me. At the risk of sounding cheesy if you were here I'd hug you. You are such a great person and I am fortunate to have met even though it is not in person. Hang tough buddy. I have a 3 year old that freaking out about going to the playground. I'll check back with you later.

Take care, friend.

-lost

by-the-way, my name is Brent. For some reason I was really afraid for people to know my real name.

_________________________
"I'm not suppose to be like this, but it's okay!" -REM

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#147962 - 03/31/07 10:37 AM Re: status report from the roller coaster [Re: tartugas]
tartugas Offline
Board Member
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 02/11/07
Posts: 513
Loc: NYC
pietie,

Thank you for shaing that beautiful poem. I admit that I do not often look in the poetry section. One of the things I learned in Napa was that we as a community are one heck of a talented lot. Maybe it comes from years of being turned inward. A great part of our healing process is learning how to speak up with pride and share our stories and songs with the world around us.

Don't stop, ever.

_________________________
"I am not a mechanism, an assembly of various sections.
And it is not because the mechanism is working wrongly, that I am ill.
I am ill because of wounds to the soul, to the deep emotional self...."
Healing D.H. Lawrence

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#147963 - 03/31/07 10:38 AM Re: status report from the roller coaster [Re: tartugas]
tartugas Offline
Board Member
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 02/11/07
Posts: 513
Loc: NYC
Extx,

Thank you. I am uplifted by your words. Some days this chasm does feel overwhelmingly deep and unfillable. But I know that I can continue forward with my healing.

_________________________
"I am not a mechanism, an assembly of various sections.
And it is not because the mechanism is working wrongly, that I am ill.
I am ill because of wounds to the soul, to the deep emotional self...."
Healing D.H. Lawrence

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#147964 - 03/31/07 10:40 AM Re: status report from the roller coaster [Re: lostandfound]
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
Hi Brent,

Originally Posted By: lostandfound
By-the-way, my name is Brent. For some reason I was really afraid for people to know my real name.


So this is a big step for you. I think it goes to show how much caring and healing there is in a good honest exchange of feelings, as this thread has clearly been.

Much love,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

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#147965 - 03/31/07 10:45 AM Re: status report from the roller coaster [Re: roadrunner]
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
Chris,

I know the past few days haven't been easy for you, and just for the record, you weren't up on a soapbox. You were calling out for help and expressing deep feelings. All that HAS to come out. If we cannot learn to be honest about our feelings we will never be able to work on them and heal. You have done the right thing.

Much love,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

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#147966 - 03/31/07 10:49 AM Re: status report from the roller coaster [Re: roadrunner]
tartugas Offline
Board Member
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 02/11/07
Posts: 513
Loc: NYC
Hi everyone,

So I woke up this morning suffused with chagrin. I know that I have lashed out in anger and lonliness. And I apologise to everyone here for my harsh tones and speaking out of my pain in accusation of those who are truly innocent.

I can't fully explain what is goig on inside of me. I have been torn to shreds by anger and lonliness this week. And it's so often hard for me to see through it all. It's as though I got some of Dr. JEckyll's formula into me or something. This Hyde monster rage took over and I couldn't see anything clearly.

Many of my brothers have come to my aid. And I'm certain many more have felt moved in sympathy or recognition. And I'm sure some have responded in frustration and seem the contradictions in some of my words. I cannot accuse others of being silent whn I myself cannot respond to every post here.

I'm humbly sorry to everyone for whatever discomfort and sadness my anger might have provoked. Though I do not in any way repeal any of what I said over the past few days. I feel the heart of my message -- that I am in pain and need help, and that we are all encouraged and stengthened by the process of helping one another -- is a valid one. And I hope that you can all hear my heart beating through the tears and cranky cries.

_________________________
"I am not a mechanism, an assembly of various sections.
And it is not because the mechanism is working wrongly, that I am ill.
I am ill because of wounds to the soul, to the deep emotional self...."
Healing D.H. Lawrence

Top
#147976 - 03/31/07 11:23 AM Re: status report from the roller coaster [Re: tartugas]
FormerTexan Offline
Site Administrator
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 09/12/04
Posts: 10951
Loc: Denver, CO
Chris,

"I feel the heart of my message -...- is a valid one."

I do too. I never got the feeling that anyone was invalidating that. And if anyone was, they would be no better than the people out there who don't understand and throw out some slap-in-the-face phrase like "just get over it." I'd say the gist of the more recent additions to the thread were to offer reassurance that you are not deserted. \:\)

_________________________
List of things ain't nobody got time for:

1. That


If I could meet myself as a boy...

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#147977 - 03/31/07 11:23 AM Re: status report from the roller coaster [Re: tartugas]
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
Chris,

Originally Posted By: tartugas
And I hope that you can all hear my heart beating through the tears and cranky cries.


What a great way to put it. The answer is yes, my friend; we have all been there, remember. I have the feeling this experience has been very important for you.

Much love,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

Top
#147995 - 03/31/07 12:39 PM Re: status report from the roller coaster [Re: tartugas]
pietie Offline
Guest

Registered: 01/23/07
Posts: 326
Loc: South Africa
Originally Posted By: tartugas
I apologise to everyone here for my harsh tones and speaking out of my pain in accusation


No need to apologise my friend. We all need to get it out. You are among friends here and we share and understand your pain and frustration.

But remember: we will also share in your victories and joy - that will become ours as well.

Stay close.

And taking the leap now. My name is Tjaart (pronounced Chart).

_________________________
Not Perfect, just forgiven

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#148018 - 03/31/07 02:43 PM Re: status report from the roller coaster [Re: pietie]
lostandfound Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/01/07
Posts: 148
Loc: Singularity
No apologies necessary. God knows I've done much much worse. Not here at least not yet:)

When your this hurt it is so hard to see anything else. Remember what FT said: "that you are not deserted."

-lost

_________________________
"I'm not suppose to be like this, but it's okay!" -REM

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#148021 - 03/31/07 02:58 PM Re: status report from the roller coaster [Re: tartugas]
reality2k4 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/06/04
Posts: 6838
Loc: Stuck between water, air, and ...
Chris, stop tearing yourself up.
I am not the greatest of posters lately because my mind just freezes up thinking how to respond.

I try and respond when someone is in trouble and hurting, but the amount of posts I lose track of is amazing.
Anger is the most potent weapon we can use, whether on ourselves or others, and we need to be aware of it constantly.

I wish I/we could give further help, but alas we cannot outside of this place,

ste


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#148056 - 03/31/07 07:24 PM Re: status report from the roller coaster [Re: reality2k4]
sabata Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/08/06
Posts: 1948
sorry i didnt reply to your post.........chris.........yet the last 2 weeks i was isolating myself deepley.....and was having problems with people.life..ect.....i do hope things are better for you now.................Steve


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#148088 - 03/31/07 11:33 PM Re: status report from the roller coaster [Re: roadrunner]
lostandfound Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/01/07
Posts: 148
Loc: Singularity
I completely over looked this earlier. Yes, it is a huge step and I appreciate you seeing that. I sometimes like that no one knows me, but that is further isolating.

Brent

_________________________
"I'm not suppose to be like this, but it's okay!" -REM

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#148457 - 04/02/07 09:24 PM Re: status report from the roller coaster [Re: tartugas]
WalkingSouth Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/30/05
Posts: 16263
Chris,

I'm gonna write down thoughts as I encounter them here because this is a long thread and by the time I get to the bottom I will have forgotten what I wanted to say up above. lol

Quote:
I'm scared to open myself up that much to the pain. I'm scared to be that vulnerable. I'm scared to go back in time, drop all the defenses that have gotten me this far and, in a kind of way start from scratch all over again.

Yeah, There is a tendency when we begin this journey to go to one extreme or the other. So often we pull all the stops in an effort to "get it over with", and end up overwhelming our capacity to process. This usually results in giving up and quitting or getting us into a "stuck" mode where we make absolutely no progress. The other thing we do is to look at the work we can see needs to be done and the pain it will bring and simply throw up our hands and don't do anything.

Either approach ends up being rather non productive in the end leaving us afraid to move forward. It takes a real dedication to the process to make it through those times and learn how much work you can do how quickly.

Quote:
I have to be careful, because thinking about them is beginning to make my blood boil. I live in New York Fucking CIty, you'd think it would be realtively easy to find a group here


Remember at Four Springs when they devided us up into small groups? What they were doing in effect is group therapy with two therapists acting as facilitators. What I'm saying here is that perhaps you are looking for is a group therapy session each week. I'd ask your T and if he/she cannot fill that need then ask for recommendations. I was involved with group therapy for some time and have not regrets. Yes, it was spendy, but well worth it in the end. The good thing about it is there is a professional facilitator there to keep things on track and focused just as we had at Four Springs.

Quote:
Does everyone actually hate the turtle and are you all too scred to be honest with me?


Not at all, Chris. Perhaps so self involved at the moment we can't see another's pain? Part of the drawback of being a survivor is looking inward to the exclusion of all else at times.

Quote:
I have been torn to shreds by anger and lonliness this week. And it's so often hard for me to see through it all.


I've been there. Not so long ago either. Was so messed up I got myself involved with a thread here that was not a good one at all. Really messed up, actually, but I couldn't see through that because of the place I was in. One of my brothers here eventually set me right, but I sure wish he'd done it sooner.

And like the other guys, Chris, no apology needed, but if you feel the need to do so, then yes, apology gladly accepted.

You've done something very important here. Well, actually several things. I think what you experienced here went way deeper than just a tantrum about feeling invalidated. I may be wrong, but I think this frustration and venting had a lot more to do with what's been pent up inside for many many years. The anger, loneliness, fear, terror, and frustration Little Chris felt for all those years was pouring out of you begging for help. Pleading to be heard because he wasn't heard before. He cried out in his own way all that time, but it was not a way anyone recognized as a cry for help.

You've cried out for help, Bro. We've heard you, offered our advise, support, thoughts. I'd also like to offer you my tears. I cried when I read through this thread. Cried for you, for Little Chris, cried for all my brothers here who've suffered in silence for so long. Thank-you for having the courage to say what was on your mind.

Lots of love

John

_________________________
“Life’s journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting ‘Holy ____…! What a ride!’” ~Hunter S. Thompson

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