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#14749 - 05/08/06 05:26 PM Re: NAMBLA?! I can't beleive this!!
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
I like Melliferal's image:

Quote:
Alone, we are only fingers - but together, we are a FIST!
I absolutely agree, but is NAMBLA even a worthwhile target anymore? As I said earlier in this thread, what I read is that the organization is pretty much moribund now.

Is it worth devoting resources to a little website run by a few pervs, however shocking and disgusting their message, when there are large and active pedophile rings all over the world?

I rather get the idea that for once things have already gone our way. It looks to me like investigations, police arrests and surveillance, and general outrage have already more or less smothered NAMBLA. Does anyone know for sure - or at least have a general idea - whether they are still active, and if so, how much of a threat they are?

Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

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#14750 - 05/08/06 06:38 PM Re: NAMBLA?! I can't beleive this!!
Nobbynobs Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 06/26/05
Posts: 1286
Loc: Toronto
I believe the FBI is happily using NAMBLA as a way to catch perps, but at least a year ago it looks like they were active.

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/metro/20050217-2208-manboy-daily.html

Although to answer your question, Larry, I will ask another. Ever try to get dandelions out of a lawn? You chop off the tops but the roots go really deep. Yes, it appears that NAMBLA is gone, but I think the roots are much deeper. However, I agree with you. With new technology and much better training our defenders are slowly but surely rounding up the perps.

_________________________
When you go up to the bell, ring it! Or don't go up to the bell.

- Mel Brooks

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#14751 - 05/08/06 07:07 PM Re: NAMBLA?! I can't beleive this!!
reality2k4 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/06/04
Posts: 6838
Loc: Stuck between water, air, and ...
Nambla gets hot, so the ones with a little bit or grey matter get out.
They start something else, or worse, they go underground sending emails etc.

If the perp is known to the cops, his email can be captured and the pedo ring gets smashed.
They have ingenious ways of finding new ideas to hide from authorities.

As we have seen on so many occasions, that perps go for decades without being detected.
How many lives they kill off is unimaginable.

Governments want to work out just how much these perps cost society, they do know, but are terrified of admitting it to the public for fear of blowing up a frenzy.

That is why most of it is covered up,

ste

_________________________
Whoever stole the Sun, put it back and we'll drop all the charges!

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#14752 - 05/08/06 11:52 PM Re: NAMBLA?! I can't beleive this!!
Lloydy Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 04/17/02
Posts: 7071
Loc: England Shropshire
NAMBLA might be the spent force they appear to be, the perp's are still out there and organized and NAMBLA 'might' be projecting the image they want to portray to the world?

I know from searching arount the internet that there are many 'boylovers' sites out there. ( I NEVER LOOK AT THE ACTUAL SITES ! )
Type the right words into Google and hundreds of pages appear, the perps are STILL out there.

Quote:
Other people oppose them from some platform, or because of what they've read in a book or seen on TV - and often, their information is exaggerated, or misrepresented, or just plain incorrect - making it easy for the pedos to meet their arguments.
Mell'
this is our audience, these are the people we need to reach out to and give the real, correct, information to.

The media, especially the tabloid end of the media, still focus on the more sensational stories of child kidnaps, rapes and attacks.
It's right that they are reported, but these kind of attacks are generally attacks by strangers.
As horrific as they are, they are less common than the 'trusted person' abuse and attacks.

But the headlines aren't as emotive are they?

So what impression do most people have of sex abusers? It's still the dirty old man lurking in the bushes, and we know that isn't always the case.

Dave

_________________________
Go confidently in the direction of your dreams! Live the life you've imagined. As you simplify your life, the laws of the universe will be simpler.
Henry David Thoreau

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#14753 - 05/09/06 05:13 AM Re: NAMBLA?! I can't beleive this!!
melliferal Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/03/05
Posts: 1159
Is NAMBLA a worthwhile target? Absolutely. I'll explain why in a bit. But first, I do want to emphasize that NAMBLA is also a valuable resource for law enforcement. Here's how it works:

1) A law enforcement agent, or a neutral party with intent to inform, joins NAMBLA and attends meetings and conventions,

2) Other NAMBLA members who happen to be involved in illegal activity contact the mole, who plays along long enough to get some names, dates, and locations,

3) Law enforcement moves in on the illegal activity; the mole disappears, and another one is planted.

NAMBLA's networking characteristics make it a great information mine, because people involved in illegal activity also use the group to find clients, friends, and like-minded people. So the fact that NAMBLA exists is, paradoxically, a great help to us.

Meanwhile, NAMBLA keeps on keepin' on, insisting that something which is illegal should be made legal. To make their case, they have a specific set of arguments - some of which are merely counter-arguments to the views of child advocates - which attempt to appeal to peoples' logic, reason, and emotions. Now, it may be easy for us to say "no sane person will buy those arguments", but I don't think that's a proper response. NAMBLA is just about the only "organized" voice of pedophilia - and if the arguments are out there, and publically accessible, THEY NEED TO BE REFUTED, no matter how silly we "think" they would sound to "normal" people. An unchallenged argument is a won argument. As long as these peoples' arguments are simply rejected -without- being actually challenged and rebutted, the pedos can say that their opponents are being unreasonable - which is actually (and regrettably) a valid position on their part. We cannot allow them to hold that argumentative "high ground".

Now, true, their statements are being challenged - but, as I said before, they're being challenged by people with bad information.

Let me give you just one example. I clearly recall a recent CNN interview with US Attorney General Gonzalez, who referred to child pornography as an industry netting somewhere in the -billions- of dollars (perhaps he said "millions", but even so). Scary? Certainly. But does it even make sense? I did some search engining. Every single child pornography bust that I could find information about anywhere on the internet, going back 7 YEARS or more - even those involving large international sting operations - has involved individuals or collections of individuals who traded these images FOR FREE with other individuals. Many of these individuals made their own kiddy porn for distribution - again, FOR FREE - either on FREE song-trading networks or in private member-only FREE clubs (the sole requirement apparently being submission of more material to the group "pool"). These busts have collectively netted an immense number of images and movie clips, with a few single perpetrators possessing tens of thousands of individual images. All obtained FOR FREE from other pervs. Who is making the money? Where does the money go? Where does the money figure come from? If they haven't caught ANYBODY actually "selling" child pornography, how do they have the slightest clue how much these merchants make? Pedo groups point to statements like Gonzalez' "billions-dollar-industry" quip and laugh it off as ridiculous, and it is. For all I've been able to find out, the Justice Department could've invented this number out of whole cloth. Perhaps the number they're giving is the amount of money suspects have (tried to) spend on law-enforcement-run sites "offering" child pornography for a price. But it's simply dishonest to take that number and represent it as a gauge of profits made by "real" child porn sellers.

The problem is that the Justice Department's statement creates the illusion of some faceless illegal "corporation" that abducts children, makes movies with them, and sells the movies for small fortunes. It lends an "otherness", a kind of "distance" to the problem of child pornography - it happens "out there" - when the reality, the thing that people need to understand, is that the guy on the end of the block makes the stuff in his living room, possibly with YOUR KIDS, and trades it over the net in exchange for similar stuff from other people. The poor FBI agents who find this stuff and are forced to look at it all the time really don't know anything about it. But WE know about it, because we've been there. We're the people who need to tell the world the truth about what's going on, because the OTHER people who know the truth won't be talking.

Again, this is just one example - the one I happen to be most familiar with. Pedos can take arguments like Gonzalez' outrageous quotes and insist that "anti-pedos" have to resort to making stuff up in order to show that "pedophilia is bad". Another thing the pedos are big on arguing is the issue of the abuse being a "consentual relationship", and therefore not really abuse. Only those of us who were involved in these "consentual relationships" are in a position to really shed light on the emotional extortion which pedos try to pass off as "consent". We know the real deal, and we're the ones who need to teach. The way things are now, it's like having basketball coaches trying to teach physics.

_________________________
Children cannot consent; they can only comply.

Oprah's resources for male survivors

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#14754 - 05/09/06 01:52 PM Re: NAMBLA?! I can't beleive this!!
Nobbynobs Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 06/26/05
Posts: 1286
Loc: Toronto
I believe that there is a cash-based industry out there. I know that Visa in particular has helped net more than a few pedos by co-operating with law enforcement. Also, a few years ago the feds busted up a big trading ring and nailed a couple thousand pedos by tracing their Visas.

It could be though that these stings are getting the "unsophisticated" pedos, i.e., the guys who are dumb enough to use their Visa to buy child pron.

I liked your first comment, Mel.

"NAMBLA's networking characteristics make it a great information mine, because people involved in illegal activity also use the group to find clients, friends, and like-minded people. So the fact that NAMBLA exists is, paradoxically, a great help to us."

I like to think that the all the plans, plots and conspiracies of evil people have within them the seeds of their own destruction. A cop once told me that all criminals eventually make a self-betraying mistake, it's just a matter of being there watching when it happens. You are right, in their arrogance, the pedos are allowing the police right into their little circles. I can only shudder at what it must be like to be those poor undercover cops, having to sit there seeing and hearing what the pedos are doing to kids. There was a great episode of Law and Order with Jerry Orbach where he posed as a pedo and met with a trading group while investigating the murder of a girl. It was brilliant. I can't remember the episode but if anyone is interested I can go find it.

_________________________
When you go up to the bell, ring it! Or don't go up to the bell.

- Mel Brooks

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#14755 - 05/09/06 04:31 PM Re: NAMBLA?! I can't beleive this!!
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
Nobby,

I'm a great fan of Law and Order and Jerry Orbach. I would love to see that episode.

Much love,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

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#14756 - 05/09/06 08:29 PM Re: NAMBLA?! I can't beleive this!!
mark250676 Offline
Member

Registered: 03/01/06
Posts: 310
Loc: England
I'm sure it's not a good feeling to have but I try to give myself room to understand all my feelings as part of the healing process.

NAMBLA is good because although the senior members / organisers seem to be quite intelligent the 'first time members / volunteers' appear to be very very stupid! So yeah it gives us and the authorities, when they want to!, a chance to highlight these people.

But the angry part of me says if they wanna have freedom of speech on this subject then they will feel my anger!

I've lived with what happened to me for years and years with it eating away at me. Fighting for it not to destroy everything! I won a lot of battles but I will win the war! And if in the process I highlight a few NAMBLA members then all the better!

And Japanzen thank you! Any publicity highlighting these predators is great!

Mark

_________________________
Survivor and fighter!

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#14757 - 05/09/06 08:30 PM Re: NAMBLA?! I can't beleive this!!
mark250676 Offline
Member

Registered: 03/01/06
Posts: 310
Loc: England
Sorry when I said they were good I meant the fact that they enable us to spot them. Of course the organisation isn't good!

Mark

_________________________
Survivor and fighter!

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#14758 - 05/09/06 09:00 PM Re: NAMBLA?! I can't beleive this!!
reality2k4 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/06/04
Posts: 6838
Loc: Stuck between water, air, and ...
How about having to grow up listening to the news and how a group known as P.I.E. were able to make news on their views.

The initials stood for pedo info exchange!
No, it wasnt about the public exposing them.
It was a group of pedos who openly shared info about kids who they could share around with each other.

It was run like some catalogue where you choose what type of kid you want.

All of that to an abused kid is too much to even think how they ever got publicity, let alone not locked up.

It somehow told me that it was OK to be abused,

ste

_________________________
Whoever stole the Sun, put it back and we'll drop all the charges!

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