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#153166 - 04/28/07 04:17 AM Re: Homosexuality related to CSA [Re: jamie']
still5 Offline
New Here

Registered: 04/28/07
Posts: 2
Loc: Rocky Mountains
I have had some issues with the whole nature of all of my sexuality I find myself almost wanting to be victimized. It feels sort of comfortable and sex regardless of if there is any love involved is someplace that I have always felt powerful. I am heterosexual yet I am drawn to public sex as a form of humiliation and the ease of how degrading it makes me feel afterwards to me this arena is not about homosexuality but about debasement and a confirmation of my low self esteem. I was sexually hardwired at an early age. This unfortunate crosswiring of the feelings of philios, eros,agape and power comes from the fact that my abuser was my older brother starting at about three or four. I love women but I am socially programmed for these gratification stratagies I can not speak for anybody else but, that is how it is for me.

_________________________
"Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read."
Groucho Marx

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#154384 - 05/04/07 02:53 PM Re: Homosexuality related to CSA [Re: still5]
Chain Breaker Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/21/07
Posts: 376
Loc: Michigan
Hi still5,

The desire to be victimized, humiliated, degraded, or debased stems from low self-esteem. We don't think we deserve anything better. If you have been conditioned or "hard-wired" to seek those things out, it will be very difficult for you to heal. You will need to break that conditioning to become healthy. That's the very reason for our being in recovery. I don't see how you will ever be happy if you continue seeking humiliation. We want to end our humiliation. I don't care whether you are heterosexual, homosexual, or bisexual. But I do care that you feel loved, celebrated, and cared for -- not degraded.

_________________________
My name is Joe. I am a survivor and a good man. You can count on me.

CB

"[Insert your name here], I am [Chain Breaker]. Do you see that I am your friend? Can you see that you will always be my friend?"
--Wind In His Hair, Dances With Wolves

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#154931 - 05/07/07 09:42 PM Re: Homosexuality related to CSA [Re: Chain Breaker]
Nate Offline
Guest

Registered: 04/30/07
Posts: 94
Loc: Philadelphia, PA
I was reading something the other day that talked about how to find a healthier view of sex.

It mentioned exposing yourself to health pictures of sexuality. Where are these found? I don't have the answer, but I found that intriguing. It made me think...does porn or animalistic type sex beneficial to my view of sexuality? Our views have been tainted and warped by many sick individuals. However, I think there is a way to obtain a healthy sexuality. It takes time, but I'm tryign to find that route as well. There are the darker things of sexuality which are appealing to me as well - I've often wondered if thats a way I have tried to dominate myself sexually in a way of not being victimized again.

Just a thought.

- Nate

_________________________
"Love the moment. Flowers grow out of dark moments. Therefore, each moment is vital. It affects the whole. Life is a succession of such moments and to live each, is to succeed."

- Corita Kent

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#154932 - 05/07/07 09:44 PM Re: Homosexuality related to CSA [Re: Russ2]
Nate Offline
Guest

Registered: 04/30/07
Posts: 94
Loc: Philadelphia, PA
additionally... i don't think my childhood abuse or adult rape has led to my bisexuality. I think it is natural to be curious about things or to question after going through such traumatic events.. but I don't think its made me bi in any way.

_________________________
"Love the moment. Flowers grow out of dark moments. Therefore, each moment is vital. It affects the whole. Life is a succession of such moments and to live each, is to succeed."

- Corita Kent

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#326779 - 03/31/10 12:20 AM Re: Homosexuality related to CSA [Re: Nate]
king tut Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/13/08
Posts: 2466
Loc: UK
Joe Kort, in my opinion, is one of the masters when it comes to considering sexuality as related to abuse issues. He has a website i believe, you should google his name. If you ever get a chance to go to any of his workshops (i attended one at the MS conference) i highly recommend it. He also has books (the straight guise idea is the most interesting concept to me) on this topic.

_________________________
"...until lambs become lions"

I love you, little lewis, and i will never leave you. We are the same. You brighten my day, and i will make sure that i brighten yours. Hugs and kisses.


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#326894 - 03/31/10 11:17 PM Re: Homosexuality related to CSA [Re: king tut]
Wilson81 Offline


Registered: 03/04/10
Posts: 7
Loc: United States
Thanks for discussing this guys.


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#326945 - 04/01/10 10:06 AM Re: Homosexuality related to CSA [Re: Wilson81]
kidneythis Offline


Registered: 11/08/09
Posts: 1558
I don't know from homosexualty but I do know abuse and finding comfort in the pain and humiliation.
This is how I view these sorts of "Pleasure from pain" stories;
What you describe brings to mind the label I was taught to use for things that I turned to but were not helpful to me, and that label is, familiarity. You are familiar with these feelings and that brings up the "pleasure" you found in the abuse.
I put quotes around pleasure because I don't believe it was pleasure, it was the least painful part of the abuse, the physical reaction of your body, which your mind dove into to protect itself while all that humiliation and degradation was happening to you. So from that dissociative state you observed the painful humiliation and degradation and the associated feelings while hiding in whatever physical/psychological pleasure your mind could find or create and the two became intertwined. The one always associated at some level with the other.

This is not a natural association. You can change it but that will take an act of will on your part and the help of people who know a lot more than I do on the subject.

That is my opinion on the matter of the pleasure/pain association.

_________________________
As Mark Twain once quipped, history may not repeat itself, but it does rhyme.

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#327045 - 04/02/10 12:21 AM Re: Homosexuality related to CSA [Re: kidneythis]
pufferfish Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/26/08
Posts: 6857
Loc: USA
This has always been an extreme sore point for me.

I was in junior and senior high school in the 50's. Being gay was very much not accepted. I experienced rejection and persecution. I tried to hide "it" but the girls I dated must have sooner or later figured it out. ... hatred of self...

I tried to figure it out. I had no memories of abuse then because they were all tucked away safely out of my conscious reach. So I blamed my mother. I became very angry with her for inducing that in me. After all, she did have multiple personality disorder (which I didn't figure out for many years but I experienced the blunt end of it many times). She was most loving when I was in grade school, but as I approached puberty I think her hatred of adult males began to take hold. I was becoming an adult male. Then she sensed my anger and the sparks began to fly!!!!!

Then in my 40's I remembered the terrible abuse I experienced as a child. It all involved sexual behavior with other males of course. When the memories came up, so did a ton of homosexual emotion from those abusive encounters. It was overwhelming. Fortunately, as I shared everything no-holds-barred with counselors, the homosexual emotions began to fade. Then EMDR finally seemed to put much of it to rest.

Now I am 71 frown . I don't have sexual emotions for hardly anybody. But I find that I really innately enjoy the female body but only as a visual exercise. So there you go.

Allen

pufferfish whistle whistling for ???


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#327066 - 04/02/10 03:07 AM Re: Homosexuality related to CSA [Re: jamie']
Charlie24 Offline


Registered: 09/28/08
Posts: 562
Jamie,

this is very thought provoking discussion.

I want to share my thoughts about this issue.

I realized my abuse happened while I was in puberty, at the start, well I was bit of a late bloomer but during the general age range for puberty 9 - 14, somehwere in then my abuse occurred.

Now I can remember some of it vividly and I question myself to death and second myself if I was really abused, I hate this feeling of not being sure. Not knowing what really happened to me.

I hate that I still don't have any resolve with my sexuality.

Sometimes I think I might be afraid of my true feelings if I can ever discover them.

I want to shake an 8 ball and just try to have some answers and then move forward with my life, if it could be that easy, oh well.

Gotta keep moving forward, but for what, more confusion, pain and frustration.

Feelings like I'm not making resolve. It's carthartic to get this out, cause this broken record has been in my head for a while.

I really don't know if abuse can make a person realize, believe or think that they are a certain way because of what happened to them in the past with abuse.

Maybe it can, maybe it can't. Just don't know and I'm being fucking honest, I'm just sure.

Sometimes I have days where I wish I could be zapped like the guys in Men In Black and just forget it all, try and start over with a clean slate, but then would I have to relearn life again, maybe even more exhausting.

When I think back to puberty and I was developing, I remember thinking about guys during that process. Does it mean I'm gay, not the hell sure.

I don't know if it was a sick twisted sense of wanting to be like those guys cause I thought they were so cool or if I was genuinely attracted to them. Still not sure to this day.

I remember this one kid I went to school with, his name was Derek I use to fantasize I was him, I wanted to be him, he was an ass, cocky and just a major jerk. Don't know why I would want to be that, I'm none of those qualities thank god.

Boy does this abuse really fuck you up. Pardon my language. God I'm still not sure of much anymore these days, guys becoming cynical and I'm only 25, no good. Well thanks for letting me vent.

Charlie.


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#327095 - 04/02/10 10:53 AM Re: Homosexuality related to CSA [Re: Charlie24]
kidneythis Offline


Registered: 11/08/09
Posts: 1558
To be clear my previous post is meant to apply only to the perception that one enjoys pain or humiliation that is similar to the abuse, not homosexuality. It might apply i've never considered it but I did not intend it to.

_________________________
As Mark Twain once quipped, history may not repeat itself, but it does rhyme.

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