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#141811 - 02/16/07 08:16 AM Re: Abuse can alter brain [Re: sis]
philobat Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/31/07
Posts: 293
Loc: California
As screwey as this may sound- I am going after it anyway!

First of all, thank you for providing this information Ken. Second of all I am not a fucking monkey, but I can appreciate to a certain degree, the science of research and development.

Humans are very unique in that we have a societal base that primates only possess at the most rudimentary level. To be off by one chromosome or two can throw quite a monkey wrench into the mix when it comes to behavioral sciences.

I would like to know who was the primary source for this funding and what were the results used for? One thing you don't see monkeys doing is raping their children.

I would almost bet that the source of funding has helped to create more drugs to produce the "chemicals" we are all apparently short of.

The truth is, if you have sex, beat, emotionally manipulate and hurt a child at a developmental stage of course we are going to be angry, impulsive, compulsive and a whole slew of other things too numerous to mention.

I also think this information is propaganda because it is an indication that apes cannot distinguish their chemical imbalances from one another, but yet as human children in an abusive environment we react very differently when placed in the same or similar situations.

One person may become shy and introverted, yet another may be the opposite. Some of us suffer delusions of grandeur because we feel so entitled, yet another may withdrawal completely feeling we deserve nothing at all.

Karen Carpenter didn't think she was worthy of food, yet she possessed one of the greatest singing voices of all time. No human reaction suffice to say is far too varied to be pegged down to seratonin levels. Because if it were actually true, the drugs would work and we would be well on our way to leading normal lives.

I for one would love a pill that would do me some good without debilitating side-effects. I would take it in a second. And so would many survivors. I almost died from trying every possible medication- this is why so many of us suffer in silence for so long.

I want to thank you for bringing this information because I know you posted it as hope. It really is nice of you to do this. And as far as animal experimentation, I agree with the board. Its cruel and unnecessary, but without it, the FDA would not be able to approve medicines or approve of all medicines.

The answer to all of our problems are with each other. I have learned this in a very short time. self help has always brought more successful results for me. Unfortunately, self help has just as many trials and errors- but at least I'm the guinea pig and not some poor animal that doesn't even share my DNA.


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#141819 - 02/16/07 09:45 AM Re: Abuse can alter brain [Re: philobat]
reality2k4 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/06/04
Posts: 6838
Loc: Stuck between water, air, and ...
They have a chemical cosh for most things these days,

ste


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#141935 - 02/16/07 09:58 PM Re: Abuse can alter brain [Re: philobat]
AshSurvived Offline
Member

Registered: 01/07/07
Posts: 167
Loc: Australia
Originally Posted By: philobat
As screwey as this may sound- I am going after it anyway!

First of all, thank you for providing this information Ken. Second of all I am not a fucking monkey, but I can appreciate to a certain degree, the science of research and development.

Humans are very unique in that we have a societal base that primates only possess at the most rudimentary level. To be off by one chromosome or two can throw quite a monkey wrench into the mix when it comes to behavioral sciences.

I would like to know who was the primary source for this funding and what were the results used for? One thing you don't see monkeys doing is raping their children.

I would almost bet that the source of funding has helped to create more drugs to produce the "chemicals" we are all apparently short of.

The truth is, if you have sex, beat, emotionally manipulate and hurt a child at a developmental stage of course we are going to be angry, impulsive, compulsive and a whole slew of other things too numerous to mention.

I also think this information is propaganda because it is an indication that apes cannot distinguish their chemical imbalances from one another, but yet as human children in an abusive environment we react very differently when placed in the same or similar situations.

One person may become shy and introverted, yet another may be the opposite. Some of us suffer delusions of grandeur because we feel so entitled, yet another may withdrawal completely feeling we deserve nothing at all.

Karen Carpenter didn't think she was worthy of food, yet she possessed one of the greatest singing voices of all time. No human reaction suffice to say is far too varied to be pegged down to seratonin levels. Because if it were actually true, the drugs would work and we would be well on our way to leading normal lives.

I for one would love a pill that would do me some good without debilitating side-effects. I would take it in a second. And so would many survivors. I almost died from trying every possible medication- this is why so many of us suffer in silence for so long.

I want to thank you for bringing this information because I know you posted it as hope. It really is nice of you to do this. And as far as animal experimentation, I agree with the board. Its cruel and unnecessary, but without it, the FDA would not be able to approve medicines or approve of all medicines.

The answer to all of our problems are with each other. I have learned this in a very short time. self help has always brought more successful results for me. Unfortunately, self help has just as many trials and errors- but at least I'm the guinea pig and not some poor animal that doesn't even share my DNA.


Bing! Philo wins a prize! (sorry I'm drunk). But he has once again hit the nail on the head beautifully! Who funded this shit, and why is the result tailored to the tabloids, or more specifically: tailored to the people who are in power and make the aministrative decisions about research grants!

Has anyone else noticed how lately research scientists are appealing to politics more and more, generating 'findings' that will apease the ideology of the current ruling party. Pure coincidence I'll tell you!

_________________________
"It's your world Dave, I'm just livin' in it"

- Harvey Pekar to David Letterman
(American Splendour)

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#141961 - 02/17/07 02:29 AM Re: Abuse can alter brain [Re: sis]
tartugas Offline
Board Member
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 02/11/07
Posts: 513
Loc: NYC
Hmmm...

On the one hand part of me wants to say, "Well DUH!" On the other hand I do see this as an important study in that is correlates a physcial outcome (low seratonin) to a specific evoironmental trigger (abuse enviornment).

The thing that worries me about these kinds of studies is that a lot of people tend to look at them and make some detrimental conclusions. First, that the appropriate repsonse is to try and prevent the damage from happening in the first place (e.g. "The results emphasize the need for programs to reduce child abuse and to develop behavior-modification strategies for abusive parents.") To which I cry ,"BullSh--!" You will never get all people everywhere to act perfectly. And secondly, there is a tacit assumption that the children who suffer this injury will be seen as abnormal.

Lower seratonin levels represent a symptom of a condition whose origin may very well be, in certain cases, an abusive environment. The proper treatment for this condition is not to work on the abusers, but to work with the victims. A parent who negelcts or abuses their child is not the proper object of concern here. Their actions disqualify them from our energy or support. The proper subject of our energy is the victim. Work with the kid who gets hurt to teach them the skills and instill in them the confidence and hope that they aren't receiving at home. We can certainly address the serotonin issue with drug therapy for a limited time, but to think that the best solution we can offer is to give drugs to the victims and try to talk to the abusers is to do a great injustice to the victims, and I'm afraid that that is a very likely outsomce of this kind of research.

There are plenty of way we can reprogram our brains to readjust to a new way of seeing life. The body is remarkably capapable of healing itself, if given the chance. In order for it to do so, I feel that we must not only try to remove whatever toxic elements are polluting the body (be they bad nutrition, bad parenting, or bad behavior), but we must also work to teach the victim the lessons they didn't get in an abusive environment. Popping a serotonin pill might be a small piece of the puzzle, but outside a broader theraputic context, such treatment will never succeed.

_________________________
"I am not a mechanism, an assembly of various sections.
And it is not because the mechanism is working wrongly, that I am ill.
I am ill because of wounds to the soul, to the deep emotional self...."
Healing D.H. Lawrence

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#142351 - 02/19/07 02:26 PM Re: Abuse can alter brain [Re: tartugas]
philobat Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/31/07
Posts: 293
Loc: California
Tartugas-

We should have worked on this post together! You seem to have a balance that my emotions tipped the scale for me. What a fabulous and eloquent post.

There is some more interesting research on the Lilly website about a seratonin injection they are researching because the pill forms not only do not stimulate seratonin production, but actually created a simulated "feeling" but not the production itself. The side effects are kidney damage, pancreatic rupturing, liver damage being among the worst possible side effects.

Eeeewww!

Aint no pill gonna cure my ill..... Because I am not ill.... Just very hurt.

Love,

-Philo


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