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#140602 - 02/07/07 01:01 PM something i found this morning
Jarrad Offline
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Registered: 10/27/06
Posts: 1071
Loc: arizona

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#140606 - 02/07/07 01:17 PM Re: something i found this morning *DELETED* [Re: Jarrad]
jacobtk Offline
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Registered: 04/08/03
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Post deleted by jacobtk

_________________________
Every day I die again, and again I’m reborn/Every day I have to find the courage/To walk out into the street/With arms out/Got a love you can’t defeat/Neither down nor out/There’s nothing you have that I need/I can breathe/Breathe now - U2

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#140612 - 02/07/07 02:01 PM Re: something i found this morning [Re: jacobtk]
FormerTexan Offline
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Registered: 09/12/04
Posts: 11183
Loc: Denver, CO
Interesting article, Jarrad.

_________________________
List of things ain't nobody got time for:

1. That


If I could meet myself as a boy...

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#140675 - 02/07/07 09:08 PM Re: something i found this morning [Re: FormerTexan]
shadowkid Offline
WARNING from ModTeam, September 2013: user "Shadowkid" was exposed as a hoaxer. His entire online persona and stories of sexual abuse were fiction. We encourage you not to become emotionally concerned by anything you see in any of his posts. Thank you
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i don't see the down side of this?

_________________________
its not hard to fall
when you float like a cannonball - damien rice

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#140723 - 02/08/07 08:28 AM Re: something i found this morning [Re: shadowkid]
batcountry Offline
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Registered: 09/20/06
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the down side is that if the penalty for murder and child molestation is the same, perps are more likely to just kill their victims. because dead kids cant talk...

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nothing to see here

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#140725 - 02/08/07 08:50 AM Re: something i found this morning [Re: batcountry]
shadowkid Offline
WARNING from ModTeam, September 2013: user "Shadowkid" was exposed as a hoaxer. His entire online persona and stories of sexual abuse were fiction. We encourage you not to become emotionally concerned by anything you see in any of his posts. Thank you
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good point ,but i dont think that perps consider what could happen to them if they get caught, murder and child molestation are the same,a kid dies even if hes still alive he will never be that same kid again. i mean religon says they will go to hell ,and they know what can happen to baby rapers in prison ,but that dont stop them .a lethal injection stops them period.if a perp is gonna kill the kid,he will, i dont think he would think well if i let him live i'll only go to prison ,so maybe i wont kill him

_________________________
its not hard to fall
when you float like a cannonball - damien rice

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#140727 - 02/08/07 08:59 AM Re: something i found this morning [Re: shadowkid]
batcountry Offline
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some may think that, we dont really know what goes on in other people's heads. i just dont like the idea of anything that could increase child murders. maybe some perp cant control himself and molests a kid, and then after he gets panicked and thinks about the consequences, and thinks that if he kills the kid he is more likely to not get caught.

i dont support the death penalty anyways, but i know thats irrelevant, because some people do so im not going to argue that here, but aside from that i think this law could be a bad idea. it also means that kids may be less likely to report it if their abuser was a friend or family member because they dont want them to die. it puts WAY too much pressure on the kid as well..

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nothing to see here

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#140735 - 02/08/07 11:28 AM Re: something i found this morning [Re: batcountry]
Brian Offline
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Registered: 05/03/01
Posts: 1563
Loc: Upstate NY
Batcounrty,

I not against the death penalty in general but you make some very valid points!

Brian

_________________________
Recovery is Possible!

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#140736 - 02/08/07 11:37 AM Re: something i found this morning [Re: Brian]
WalkingSouth Offline
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Registered: 08/30/05
Posts: 16265
Actually, it one of the best arguments against the death penalty I've ever encountered, and I'm on the fence regarding capital punishment.

John

_________________________
“Life’s journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting ‘Holy ____…! What a ride!’” ~Hunter S. Thompson

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#140747 - 02/08/07 01:41 PM Re: something i found this morning [Re: WalkingSouth]
lostandfound Offline
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Registered: 02/01/07
Posts: 148
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I am against the death penalty. I don't believe that because a jury finds you guilty or innocent that you are in fact guilty or innocent. Finding guilt or innocence in our legal system is more who is the better attorney, the prosecutor or the defense attorney. Or, which side has the better evidence. The prospect of sending a possibly innocent person to their death frightens me.

Now, having said that I remember wondering why the cops didn't go ahead shoot Devlin. I do think that it is a very weak argument that the death penalty is a deterrent. Perps don't care. And, I agree that it might cause a perp to kill a child to avoid getting caught.

Bad idea in my opinion, though some things are worse than death. I think that a child molester should get life in prison. One count, one life term and I mean the rest of their life with out parole or appeal.

-lost

_________________________
"I'm not suppose to be like this, but it's okay!" -REM

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#140748 - 02/08/07 01:48 PM Re: something i found this morning [Re: WalkingSouth]
Hauser Offline
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Registered: 11/12/05
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Loc: United States
My only problem with capital punishment is that it's administered by the government, which has a monumental (to say the least) track record or corruption and mistakes. Todays courts are merely government agencies, not unlike the Post Office or the Pentagon, they make mistakes, LOT'S of them, just ask any lawyer, (or Shadowkid.)

Men HAVE been wrongly convicted of molestation and later exonerated (decades later sometimes).

The other problem I have with CP is that it takes away the ability of the criminal to repay his debt to the victim, (which was possible under common law, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_law#History_of_the_common_law). This, of course, is impossible now because criminals in America (and the rest of the world now) owe there debt, NOT TO THE VICTIM, but to "society". (In other words, the criminal does not repay the victim with money or labor or assets, he instead makes license plates for the state.)

But since our government is based on majority-rule instead of Common Law, this will never happen.




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#140755 - 02/08/07 02:39 PM Re: something i found this morning [Re: lostandfound]
Nobbynobs Offline
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The evidence from countries that have abolished the death penalty shows a significant decrease in violent crimes as a result. In 2005, the US homicide rate was the highest in the G7 nations at 4.2 murders per 100,000 people, despite a massive increase in executions in the US in the 1990s. For the same period, the murder rate in France was 1.7 murders per 100,000 people, UK - 1.4, Canada - 1.4, Italy - 1.2, Germany - 1.1, and in Japan the rate was 4 murders per 1 million people.

On top of this, violent crime in the United States is showing a general downward trend, despite media representations to the contrary.

If I were in the US, I would be very interested in knowing why representatives of my government were advocating an expansion of the government's powers to execute its own citizens, especially when statistics clearly show that violent crime is decreasing.







Edited by Nobbynobs (02/08/07 02:51 PM)
_________________________
When you go up to the bell, ring it! Or don't go up to the bell.

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#140775 - 02/08/07 05:05 PM Re: something i found this morning [Re: Nobbynobs]
batcountry Offline
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personally i think that having the death penalty in effect cheapens the value of life and gives people in that society the impression that murder can be okay. i do not think the government has the right to take away an individual's life, no matter what that person has done. it's not a matter of being soft on murderers or anything; i have no problem with life without parole. i just dont think that ANYONE has the right to take away a person's life except that person themselves. i mean what else do we have, in the end, if not our own life? that's why murder is such a terrible crime, because you take someone's life from them unwillingly. it may be more understandable if the person you kill has done terrible things but it's still illegal. however, if you are the government then it suddenly becomes legal and justified? no, i dont think so. this doesnt even touch on the fact that our justice system (and any justice system) is going to be inherently flawed, so there is never 100% certainty that all the people on death row actually belong there. personally i feel that supporting the death penalty puts the responsibility on you for those innocents who have been killed because of a faulty conviction. and i dont want that blood on my hands.

thats just my 2 cents, since this thread has become about the death penalty in general. i understand feeling that some people "deserve" to die and i know that i have had people in my life who i think "deserve" to die but when i say that i only mean that i hope they die sooner than later or that something bad befalls them, it doesn't mean i think the government or any person has a right to go ahead and kill them (even if it's for the better.)

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nothing to see here

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#140776 - 02/08/07 05:22 PM Re: something i found this morning [Re: batcountry]
Nobbynobs Offline
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Very good points bat.

_________________________
When you go up to the bell, ring it! Or don't go up to the bell.

- Mel Brooks

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#140798 - 02/08/07 11:29 PM Re: something i found this morning [Re: Nobbynobs]
shadowkid Offline
WARNING from ModTeam, September 2013: user "Shadowkid" was exposed as a hoaxer. His entire online persona and stories of sexual abuse were fiction. We encourage you not to become emotionally concerned by anything you see in any of his posts. Thank you
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then sentence them to 7 years and be responsible for every victim he has after he gets out.why make such a big deal to kids that they should tell? thats all i hear yeah gotta teach these kids to tell ,well talk to the kid in the michael jackson case about telling , you say the death penalty might make kids afraid to tell ? well guess what when kids all over the world see a kid tell on his abuser ,go to court ,and be destroyed on tv and not a fucking thing happens to the perp ,what kind of message is this way of thinking sending? a hell of a lot more kids will not tell because they know either the perp gets off ,or gets a short sentence and guess who he goes looking for when he gets out? so by not making examples of these animals its doing a lot more damage than frying thier asses would,at least a kid would know if he told and the perp got found guilty ,then he wont ever have to worry about that guy again . thats one big reason kids dont tell ,7 years and the first person my perp tracked down when he got out? me.but the system that seems so acceptable ,did lie to me and promise me he would never get out ,if i told ,no the system is fucked. if it was your kid maybe you might see it different,i have asked this question before ,and i mean no disrespect ,but do you people remember ? dont you remember? how it felt? how it killed us inside?no one who can do these things to a kid should be allowed to walk the earth with good people , they gave up their right to be treated as anything but what they are ,animals .

_________________________
its not hard to fall
when you float like a cannonball - damien rice

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#140800 - 02/08/07 11:38 PM Re: something i found this morning [Re: shadowkid]
batcountry Offline
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Posts: 263
Loc: the ether
shadowkid you cant assume that everyone in the world thinks just like you or has the exact same experiences as you. i havent told my family about my abuse really except for vague comments made when i was little but i know for a fact that if i thought he would get killed i would never ever have told a soul, i wouldnt even be here probably. its not because i care about him. but its way too heavy to lay that shit on a kid, to make them responsible for whether someone lives or dies! that is not something we should ever make kids have to choose about. shadow you have the right to your own opinions but some people have different ones and that doesnt mean that we forgot one second of it.

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nothing to see here

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#140801 - 02/08/07 11:39 PM Re: something i found this morning [Re: shadowkid]
shadowkid Offline
WARNING from ModTeam, September 2013: user "Shadowkid" was exposed as a hoaxer. His entire online persona and stories of sexual abuse were fiction. We encourage you not to become emotionally concerned by anything you see in any of his posts. Thank you
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maybe nobody thinks about what happens to the survivor when the perp gets out,they do get out you know? some say let them out even sooner. if you were crazy to begin with ,we can admit that perps have mental problems right? so say you spend ten years in prison ,lying awake at night thinking about the stupid fucking kid that put you there ,hmm wonder what you might do when you got out? sometimes things just aint so black and white,there are other things to think about besides being fair to the perp

_________________________
its not hard to fall
when you float like a cannonball - damien rice

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#140804 - 02/08/07 11:55 PM Re: something i found this morning [Re: shadowkid]
batcountry Offline
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Registered: 09/20/06
Posts: 263
Loc: the ether
whatever you are just going to twist my words around because you cant accept other people's opinions. i never said anything about being fair to the perp. nor did i say anything about black and white, you are the one who can't see shades of gray. i guess if you want to support child murder and the continuation of the perp's imposed silence then you can but i certainly dont agree with it.

_________________________
nothing to see here

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#140831 - 02/09/07 07:37 AM Re: something i found this morning [Re: batcountry]
shadowkid Offline
WARNING from ModTeam, September 2013: user "Shadowkid" was exposed as a hoaxer. His entire online persona and stories of sexual abuse were fiction. We encourage you not to become emotionally concerned by anything you see in any of his posts. Thank you
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i can accept your opinion ,but you refuse to even listen to anything except what the majority thinks ,at least i have my own ideas and the guts to stand by them even when nobody agrees with me. why is it that just because someone choses the politicaly correct line of thinking ,the mister nice guy line of thinking ,it just has to be right? you ignore everything i say and just get mad cause i dont agree with you. i dont support child murder ,and i dont support fucking animals that hurt kids either.justr cause i dont agree is no reason to be pissed at me ,grow up k?

_________________________
its not hard to fall
when you float like a cannonball - damien rice

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#140836 - 02/09/07 08:25 AM Re: something i found this morning [Re: lostandfound]
reality2k4 Offline
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Registered: 07/06/04
Posts: 6838
Loc: Stuck between water, air, and ...
I am firmly against it, it can only cause more harm than good.
My Country does not have it, and good job too considering
the number of people who have had murder convictions overturned.

Imagine facing the death penalty for something another person did!
The argument of perps killing the kids to keep them quiet is
what I have always thought.

Death penalty or not, its not a deterrent as it does not stop
murder nor heinous crime from happening,

ste

_________________________
Whoever stole the Sun, put it back and we'll drop all the charges!

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#140837 - 02/09/07 08:38 AM Re: something i found this morning [Re: reality2k4]
shadowkid Offline
WARNING from ModTeam, September 2013: user "Shadowkid" was exposed as a hoaxer. His entire online persona and stories of sexual abuse were fiction. We encourage you not to become emotionally concerned by anything you see in any of his posts. Thank you
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let the punishment fit the crime.

_________________________
its not hard to fall
when you float like a cannonball - damien rice

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#140838 - 02/09/07 08:40 AM Re: something i found this morning [Re: reality2k4]
shadowkid Offline
WARNING from ModTeam, September 2013: user "Shadowkid" was exposed as a hoaxer. His entire online persona and stories of sexual abuse were fiction. We encourage you not to become emotionally concerned by anything you see in any of his posts. Thank you
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let the punishment fit the crime

_________________________
its not hard to fall
when you float like a cannonball - damien rice

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#140844 - 02/09/07 09:08 AM Re: something i found this morning [Re: reality2k4]
batcountry Offline
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shadowkid, i am mad because instead of rationally stating your points you call me names and insinuate that my opinions have no worth. believe it or not most people DONT agree with me. but i have every right to my opinion and it doesnt make me 'right' but it doesn't make you right either. i think i have stated my opinions rationally in this thread and i don't know why you have to make a fight out of it. if you feel so attacked just by someone having different opinions then maybe you need to rethink your own?

also "an eye for an eye" is barbaric and civilized countries do not practice it. ever heard that little saying of gandhi's?

_________________________
nothing to see here

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#140851 - 02/09/07 10:51 AM Re: something i found this morning *DELETED* [Re: batcountry]
jacobtk Offline
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Post deleted by jacobtk

_________________________
Every day I die again, and again I’m reborn/Every day I have to find the courage/To walk out into the street/With arms out/Got a love you can’t defeat/Neither down nor out/There’s nothing you have that I need/I can breathe/Breathe now - U2

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#140860 - 02/09/07 01:07 PM Re: something i found this morning [Re: jacobtk]
Hauser Offline
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Registered: 11/12/05
Posts: 2962
Loc: United States
Perhaps my comments were over the top for most of you guys, cuz I like to read about the origins of our current legal system. I would like to clarify what I was talking about.

Before "modern" court systems arose, they had NO connection with the governments they presided in. The judges in those courts could not use police, troops, or prisons to enforce decisions.

In those days, if someone harmed another citizen, they judge would order the criminal to make restitution to the victim, (via money or labor or assets.) If the criminal refused, then the judge would then use the procedure called "outlawry."

Under outlawry, the judge would say to the criminal "We cannot enforce the law onto you, but since you do not accept the responsibilities of the law, neither shall you have its protections. From now on your legal status shall be no different from that of a rabbit or any other wild animal outside the law."

If you're still reading this: What this meant was the anyone that refused to obey the judge would be publicized, and then ANYONE, ANYONE could hunt him down and enslave him, kill him, or anything else he wished to do to him. What happened to the criminal was no concern to the courts after the criminal refused to obey the courts decisions. The victim could also hire a bounty hunter to capture the criminal and sell him as a slave, etc.

What's my point about this Common Law theme? It comes down to Restitution. Today, when a criminal harms another person, our courts, in their infinite wisdom, assume that he owes a debt to "society" INSTEAD of to the victim. So the criminal ends up making license plates or office furniture for the state, and EVERYONE else, including the VICTIM, has to pay taxes to SUPPORT his time in a state owned prison.

Under Common Law, the offender's debt was to his victim, His obligation was to restore his victim as nearly as possible to the victim's original condition. This included paying the victim for all damages including time lost from work, court expenses, emotional stress, you name it.

I wish we had a purely Common Law system of courts today, but no, we're too "civilized" for that!



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#140871 - 02/09/07 02:32 PM Re: something i found this morning [Re: Hauser]
melliferal Offline
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I disagree, Hauser. What do my perps "owe" me, that they could actually give or do? What can they do to "restore" my life in some way? What - money? No. I don't want to be PAID for my "services", thank you very much. I want these people put in a place where they cannot do anything without being watched; where their freedoms of movement and association are limited. And, where they can't be around kids anymore. Jail is a good place for that. And as "expensive" as housing inmates is to the taxpayer, when I reduce the cost to me personally, only something like $10 of MY OWN tax money over my entire lifetime will actually ever be given to a prison. Yeah, I can give $10. And if the government wants to farm them to make license plates, they can go ahead - that actually SAVES tax money.

I will second something jacobtk said, though - if it's widely known that abusing a child can get you executed, kids who know this, who still feel attachment to their abusers, would NEVER turn their perps in. Even when they're adults, if they don't believe in the death penalty (or don't believe it's warranted). That's a lot of perps walking.

_________________________
Children cannot consent; they can only comply.

Oprah's resources for male survivors

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#140880 - 02/09/07 03:02 PM Re: something i found this morning [Re: melliferal]
reality2k4 Offline
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Registered: 07/06/04
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What if the perp is your mom or dad, or once best friend???

A poor guy got locked up for four months just for touching
a child who was with her mother.
Even though witnesses in the store said nothing untoward happened.

Case was kicked out of court!

Too late, his neighbors will still think he is a kiddie fiddler,

ste


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#140881 - 02/09/07 03:05 PM Re: something i found this morning [Re: melliferal]
Hauser Offline
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Registered: 11/12/05
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Loc: United States
Perhaps I'm unique here, perhaps I'm the only one that's led an adult life of under-achievement, marginal employment, and little accomplished. My perp could have paid me money, and he could have been forced to make public service announcements on how he perped little boys and how to be safe from people like him, I could have made him do anything I wanted probably, given the gravity of the crime committed against me, had I Common Law backing me up.

I'm not trying to flog a dead horse here, but you're not just paying for YOUR perp, you're paying for all the other criminals in prison as well, many of which only committed crimes against the state (victim-less crimes), crimes in which they never hurt anyone else except possibly themselves, like drug possession and sale, prostitution, gambling, etc.) http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/snitch/cases/

Perps ARE getting out of prison early to make room for people like this, but I digress.


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#140928 - 02/09/07 09:46 PM Re: something i found this morning [Re: Hauser]
shadowkid Offline
WARNING from ModTeam, September 2013: user "Shadowkid" was exposed as a hoaxer. His entire online persona and stories of sexual abuse were fiction. We encourage you not to become emotionally concerned by anything you see in any of his posts. Thank you
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im sorry i voiced my opinion ,but thats all i did

_________________________
its not hard to fall
when you float like a cannonball - damien rice

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#140929 - 02/09/07 09:48 PM Re: something i found this morning [Re: shadowkid]
batcountry Offline
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Registered: 09/20/06
Posts: 263
Loc: the ether
no, you voiced your opinion very abrasively, called me names and acted like i was stupid or insane for having my own opinion. you can state your opinion without attacking people and that in fact makes it a more effective argument.

_________________________
nothing to see here

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#140934 - 02/09/07 10:07 PM Re: something i found this morning [Re: batcountry]
WalkingSouth Offline
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Posts: 16265
This is a worthwhile discussion, guys, but can we take it down a notch?

I was quite interested in the statistics you quoted Nobs. I'm wondering tho, if there is a direct correlation between the death penalty, or lack thereof, and the lower murder rate per capita. It does not necessarily follow that the one is the cause of the other. There may be many other contributing factors such as per capita income, government involvement in education and anti poverty programs, etc.

Did your source for the stats enlarge on any of these issues?

I'm not arguing with the conclusions you draw, just questioning.

Lots of love,

John

_________________________
“Life’s journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting ‘Holy ____…! What a ride!’” ~Hunter S. Thompson

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#140935 - 02/09/07 10:11 PM Re: something i found this morning *DELETED* [Re: Hauser]
jacobtk Offline
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Registered: 04/08/03
Posts: 527
Post deleted by jacobtk

_________________________
Every day I die again, and again I’m reborn/Every day I have to find the courage/To walk out into the street/With arms out/Got a love you can’t defeat/Neither down nor out/There’s nothing you have that I need/I can breathe/Breathe now - U2

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#140943 - 02/09/07 10:57 PM Re: something i found this morning [Re: jacobtk]
Nobbynobs Offline
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John I think the relationships are debated at length.

Personally, I think Canada has a far more progressive approach to social policy than the US, and our justice system is focussed on rehabilitating criminals versus punishing them. We also have much broader social welfare programs such as health care and programs for disadvantaged youth.

European countries are socially more similar to Canada than the US, so their lower crime rates are probably for similar reasons.

But this still begs the question, what is the US doing wrong? It is obvious that the death penalty does not deter crime. There were more criminals executed during the 1990's than in any other 10 year period in American history, and the US still has the highest murder rate of the G8 countries.

Take a look at the income levels of the people being executed in the US, and I think you will see what the death penalty is really all about. I think your state and federal governments are using the death penalty to distract US citizens from the fact that there are a LOT of people in your country who are living in 3rd-world conditions. Crime in the US is being caused by the faulty or non-existent social policies that are failing to help these people. Then, when these people commit crimes out of desperation, frustration or a simple desire to gain some type of power, they are executed. And now the government wants to broaden its ability to execute them.

If I were an American, I would ask myself, why does the government want the ability to execute even more American citizens?






Edited by Nobbynobs (02/09/07 11:00 PM)
_________________________
When you go up to the bell, ring it! Or don't go up to the bell.

- Mel Brooks

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#140952 - 02/10/07 12:25 AM Re: something i found this morning [Re: Nobbynobs]
shadowkid Offline
WARNING from ModTeam, September 2013: user "Shadowkid" was exposed as a hoaxer. His entire online persona and stories of sexual abuse were fiction. We encourage you not to become emotionally concerned by anything you see in any of his posts. Thank you
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i read every response on this thread please point out where i called anyone a name, or insane. whos attacking who? i dont think we should screw up this thread anymore.

_________________________
its not hard to fall
when you float like a cannonball - damien rice

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#140955 - 02/10/07 01:29 AM Re: something i found this morning [Re: shadowkid]
Hauser Offline
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Loc: United States
Well WHY the U.S. has the highest murder rate is a very interesting thing to bring up, and I suspect that I might have an answer, although I would have a hard time finding the records.

As we all know, America is the #1 consumer of illegal drugs. As I recall, during the early 20th century, the murder rate per capita in the U.S. was level and wavered very little until the advent of prohibition in the 1920's, and the crime and corruption that ensued shot the homicide rate through the roof. After prohibition was repealed, the national homicide rate fell back to the pre-prohibition levels.

Then comes the Reagan Administration and it's reinvigorated War on Drugs and wouldn't you know it? The murder rate is through the roof again.

I ran across a VERY interesting graph that shows the homicide rate during and in between these time periods. I shall endeavor to find it, (a government source if you can believe it LOL).


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#140956 - 02/10/07 01:32 AM Re: something i found this morning [Re: shadowkid]
FormerTexan Offline
Site Administrator
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 09/12/04
Posts: 11183
Loc: Denver, CO
Well, I read this thread and thought again and again. I certainly have my $0.02 worth like anyone else.

When I view the likes of Ted Bundy, Jeff Dahmer and John Wayne Gacy, I can see where the death penalty certainly has its place. These men have proven in their individual ways that they are deadly to a (more or less) civilized society. For their numerous murders, they deserve to reap what they sowed. They didn't deserve to be studied, and they didn't deserve to be sentenced to death row to die of natural causes. Whether pyschotic or just plain evil, they earned the death penalty, end of story.

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List of things ain't nobody got time for:

1. That


If I could meet myself as a boy...

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#140968 - 02/10/07 07:46 AM Re: something i found this morning [Re: FormerTexan]
reality2k4 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/06/04
Posts: 6838
Loc: Stuck between water, air, and ...
Murder and other crimes are indeed down to social inadequacy and perceived isolation.
I think the death penalty is barbaric and fiercely oppose it for anything as it is not a deterrent and could lead to murder to keep the victim from telling.

Far better to let the murderer or psycho rot in a jail knowing they will never be free to do it again.
Whilst we have social deprivation and disaffection in society then it is bound to have violence with it,

ste


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#141269 - 02/12/07 02:44 PM Re: something i found this morning [Re: lostandfound]
philobat Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/31/07
Posts: 293
Loc: California
Very interesting article, indeed. Bat, you have some great points to ponder!

As children we often took on the entire responsibility of the abuse events that occurred and to this end to add the responsibility to a child's plate the death of the perp is something I would not want to see happen.

To add to capital punishment the caveat of the perp killing the child in order to be eligible for capital punishment is disgusting and immoral.

If these states want a punishment that could lead to lower statistics of molestations of children, then life in prison would be an adequate punishment.

I also like the DNA tagging of a molester so they can be tracked via satellite and be made miserable where they go. Then again this opens the door to big brother eventually tagging everyone, so I don't mean to open this as a can of worms!

The statistical facts remain that the death penalty does not deter criminals at all and appears to me to be almost an assisted suicide for people in pain or wanting out of this life.

Perpetrators should be made to live out long lives of hard labor camps and be reminded daily of what they have done to the innocent and any money paid from this labor should go directly to an abused children's foundation.

-Philobat


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#141280 - 02/12/07 03:46 PM Re: something i found this morning [Re: Hauser]
Nobbynobs Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 06/26/05
Posts: 1286
Loc: Toronto
Originally Posted By: Hauser
Well WHY the U.S. has the highest murder rate is a very interesting thing to bring up, and I suspect that I might have an answer, although I would have a hard time finding the records.

As we all know, America is the #1 consumer of illegal drugs. As I recall, during the early 20th century, the murder rate per capita in the U.S. was level and wavered very little until the advent of prohibition in the 1920's, and the crime and corruption that ensued shot the homicide rate through the roof. After prohibition was repealed, the national homicide rate fell back to the pre-prohibition levels.

Then comes the Reagan Administration and it's reinvigorated War on Drugs and wouldn't you know it? The murder rate is through the roof again.

I ran across a VERY interesting graph that shows the homicide rate during and in between these time periods. I shall endeavor to find it, (a government source if you can believe it LOL).


I agree. The drug laws in the US are wreaking havoc.

It reminds me of the part in the Bible where Jesus says that sin wasn't invented until mankind got laws, and then fell into sin because they couldn't resist breaking the laws.





Edited by Nobbynobs (02/12/07 03:47 PM)
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