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#140748 - 02/08/07 01:48 PM Re: something i found this morning [Re: WalkingSouth]
Hauser Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/12/05
Posts: 2962
Loc: United States
My only problem with capital punishment is that it's administered by the government, which has a monumental (to say the least) track record or corruption and mistakes. Todays courts are merely government agencies, not unlike the Post Office or the Pentagon, they make mistakes, LOT'S of them, just ask any lawyer, (or Shadowkid.)

Men HAVE been wrongly convicted of molestation and later exonerated (decades later sometimes).

The other problem I have with CP is that it takes away the ability of the criminal to repay his debt to the victim, (which was possible under common law, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_law#History_of_the_common_law). This, of course, is impossible now because criminals in America (and the rest of the world now) owe there debt, NOT TO THE VICTIM, but to "society". (In other words, the criminal does not repay the victim with money or labor or assets, he instead makes license plates for the state.)

But since our government is based on majority-rule instead of Common Law, this will never happen.




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#140755 - 02/08/07 02:39 PM Re: something i found this morning [Re: lostandfound]
Nobbynobs Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 06/26/05
Posts: 1286
Loc: Toronto
The evidence from countries that have abolished the death penalty shows a significant decrease in violent crimes as a result. In 2005, the US homicide rate was the highest in the G7 nations at 4.2 murders per 100,000 people, despite a massive increase in executions in the US in the 1990s. For the same period, the murder rate in France was 1.7 murders per 100,000 people, UK - 1.4, Canada - 1.4, Italy - 1.2, Germany - 1.1, and in Japan the rate was 4 murders per 1 million people.

On top of this, violent crime in the United States is showing a general downward trend, despite media representations to the contrary.

If I were in the US, I would be very interested in knowing why representatives of my government were advocating an expansion of the government's powers to execute its own citizens, especially when statistics clearly show that violent crime is decreasing.







Edited by Nobbynobs (02/08/07 02:51 PM)
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When you go up to the bell, ring it! Or don't go up to the bell.

- Mel Brooks

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#140775 - 02/08/07 05:05 PM Re: something i found this morning [Re: Nobbynobs]
batcountry Offline
Member

Registered: 09/20/06
Posts: 263
Loc: the ether
personally i think that having the death penalty in effect cheapens the value of life and gives people in that society the impression that murder can be okay. i do not think the government has the right to take away an individual's life, no matter what that person has done. it's not a matter of being soft on murderers or anything; i have no problem with life without parole. i just dont think that ANYONE has the right to take away a person's life except that person themselves. i mean what else do we have, in the end, if not our own life? that's why murder is such a terrible crime, because you take someone's life from them unwillingly. it may be more understandable if the person you kill has done terrible things but it's still illegal. however, if you are the government then it suddenly becomes legal and justified? no, i dont think so. this doesnt even touch on the fact that our justice system (and any justice system) is going to be inherently flawed, so there is never 100% certainty that all the people on death row actually belong there. personally i feel that supporting the death penalty puts the responsibility on you for those innocents who have been killed because of a faulty conviction. and i dont want that blood on my hands.

thats just my 2 cents, since this thread has become about the death penalty in general. i understand feeling that some people "deserve" to die and i know that i have had people in my life who i think "deserve" to die but when i say that i only mean that i hope they die sooner than later or that something bad befalls them, it doesn't mean i think the government or any person has a right to go ahead and kill them (even if it's for the better.)

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#140776 - 02/08/07 05:22 PM Re: something i found this morning [Re: batcountry]
Nobbynobs Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 06/26/05
Posts: 1286
Loc: Toronto
Very good points bat.

_________________________
When you go up to the bell, ring it! Or don't go up to the bell.

- Mel Brooks

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#140798 - 02/08/07 11:29 PM Re: something i found this morning [Re: Nobbynobs]
shadowkid Offline
WARNING from ModTeam, September 2013: user "Shadowkid" was exposed as a hoaxer. His entire online persona and stories of sexual abuse were fiction. We encourage you not to become emotionally concerned by anything you see in any of his posts. Thank you
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/18/05
Posts: 2437
then sentence them to 7 years and be responsible for every victim he has after he gets out.why make such a big deal to kids that they should tell? thats all i hear yeah gotta teach these kids to tell ,well talk to the kid in the michael jackson case about telling , you say the death penalty might make kids afraid to tell ? well guess what when kids all over the world see a kid tell on his abuser ,go to court ,and be destroyed on tv and not a fucking thing happens to the perp ,what kind of message is this way of thinking sending? a hell of a lot more kids will not tell because they know either the perp gets off ,or gets a short sentence and guess who he goes looking for when he gets out? so by not making examples of these animals its doing a lot more damage than frying thier asses would,at least a kid would know if he told and the perp got found guilty ,then he wont ever have to worry about that guy again . thats one big reason kids dont tell ,7 years and the first person my perp tracked down when he got out? me.but the system that seems so acceptable ,did lie to me and promise me he would never get out ,if i told ,no the system is fucked. if it was your kid maybe you might see it different,i have asked this question before ,and i mean no disrespect ,but do you people remember ? dont you remember? how it felt? how it killed us inside?no one who can do these things to a kid should be allowed to walk the earth with good people , they gave up their right to be treated as anything but what they are ,animals .

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its not hard to fall
when you float like a cannonball - damien rice

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#140800 - 02/08/07 11:38 PM Re: something i found this morning [Re: shadowkid]
batcountry Offline
Member

Registered: 09/20/06
Posts: 263
Loc: the ether
shadowkid you cant assume that everyone in the world thinks just like you or has the exact same experiences as you. i havent told my family about my abuse really except for vague comments made when i was little but i know for a fact that if i thought he would get killed i would never ever have told a soul, i wouldnt even be here probably. its not because i care about him. but its way too heavy to lay that shit on a kid, to make them responsible for whether someone lives or dies! that is not something we should ever make kids have to choose about. shadow you have the right to your own opinions but some people have different ones and that doesnt mean that we forgot one second of it.

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nothing to see here

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#140801 - 02/08/07 11:39 PM Re: something i found this morning [Re: shadowkid]
shadowkid Offline
WARNING from ModTeam, September 2013: user "Shadowkid" was exposed as a hoaxer. His entire online persona and stories of sexual abuse were fiction. We encourage you not to become emotionally concerned by anything you see in any of his posts. Thank you
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/18/05
Posts: 2437
maybe nobody thinks about what happens to the survivor when the perp gets out,they do get out you know? some say let them out even sooner. if you were crazy to begin with ,we can admit that perps have mental problems right? so say you spend ten years in prison ,lying awake at night thinking about the stupid fucking kid that put you there ,hmm wonder what you might do when you got out? sometimes things just aint so black and white,there are other things to think about besides being fair to the perp

_________________________
its not hard to fall
when you float like a cannonball - damien rice

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#140804 - 02/08/07 11:55 PM Re: something i found this morning [Re: shadowkid]
batcountry Offline
Member

Registered: 09/20/06
Posts: 263
Loc: the ether
whatever you are just going to twist my words around because you cant accept other people's opinions. i never said anything about being fair to the perp. nor did i say anything about black and white, you are the one who can't see shades of gray. i guess if you want to support child murder and the continuation of the perp's imposed silence then you can but i certainly dont agree with it.

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nothing to see here

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#140831 - 02/09/07 07:37 AM Re: something i found this morning [Re: batcountry]
shadowkid Offline
WARNING from ModTeam, September 2013: user "Shadowkid" was exposed as a hoaxer. His entire online persona and stories of sexual abuse were fiction. We encourage you not to become emotionally concerned by anything you see in any of his posts. Thank you
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/18/05
Posts: 2437
i can accept your opinion ,but you refuse to even listen to anything except what the majority thinks ,at least i have my own ideas and the guts to stand by them even when nobody agrees with me. why is it that just because someone choses the politicaly correct line of thinking ,the mister nice guy line of thinking ,it just has to be right? you ignore everything i say and just get mad cause i dont agree with you. i dont support child murder ,and i dont support fucking animals that hurt kids either.justr cause i dont agree is no reason to be pissed at me ,grow up k?

_________________________
its not hard to fall
when you float like a cannonball - damien rice

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#140836 - 02/09/07 08:25 AM Re: something i found this morning [Re: lostandfound]
reality2k4 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/06/04
Posts: 6838
Loc: Stuck between water, air, and ...
I am firmly against it, it can only cause more harm than good.
My Country does not have it, and good job too considering
the number of people who have had murder convictions overturned.

Imagine facing the death penalty for something another person did!
The argument of perps killing the kids to keep them quiet is
what I have always thought.

Death penalty or not, its not a deterrent as it does not stop
murder nor heinous crime from happening,

ste

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Whoever stole the Sun, put it back and we'll drop all the charges!

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