Newest Members
SiegmundNYC, TheGreatWhat, MyNameIsPaul, serenity38, vivo
12486 Registered Users
Today's Birthdays
Can-tex (45), cbchorn (41)
Who's Online
3 registered (BraveFalcon, JW1230, 1 invisible), 15 Guests and 5 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Stats
12487 Members
74 Forums
64150 Topics
447620 Posts

Max Online: 418 @ 07/02/12 07:29 AM
Twitter
Page 1 of 2 1 2 >
Topic Options
#13940 - 04/20/06 09:17 PM Treating sex offenders
mark250676 Offline
Member

Registered: 03/01/06
Posts: 310
Loc: England
I mentioned in a previous post that I work with sex offenders. Loads of people said 'Wow'!

It opened my eyes.

As a professional I see them as the weakest people in society. Pityful. Dare I say it, worthless. They have no power in society so they seek it from children.

I dealt with that.

But the power my abuser has over me was and is huge! I want revenge but don't feel worth it.

And yet I help perps!

Screwed up ay?!

Mark

_________________________
Survivor and fighter!

Top
#13941 - 04/20/06 09:35 PM Re: Treating sex offenders
reality2k4 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/06/04
Posts: 6838
Loc: Stuck between water, air, and ...
Mark,

the obvious thing a survivor wants to do is seek revenge, revenge harbours anger and regret.
How many times do you see us wondering how to forgive, least forget.

I could not work with sex offenders, it would be too tough, maybe it is for you too.
I have never sought power over ppl, because it relates to abuse.

Those who seek control over others are not ppl in my books, the control can just run out of control, and manipulators dont have control over me.

I have huge barriers against manipulation, which sadly runs the world,

ste

_________________________
Whoever stole the Sun, put it back and we'll drop all the charges!

Top
#13942 - 04/21/06 02:43 AM Re: Treating sex offenders
Ken Singer, LCSW Offline
Moderator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/24/00
Posts: 5780
Loc: Lambertville, NJ USA
Mark:
I don't think it is screwed up to work with perpetrators if you've been abused but it is a difficult balance to make as a helper and someone in a position to treat or hurt others who didn't necessarily hurt you (but have hurt others).

I've supervised therapists and youth workers who have victimization histories and the objectivity one has to have in such a position makes the balance difficult. Hopefully you have a supervisor who is aware of your history and can be objective with you. Otherwise, you may be acting out your unresolved issues with people who need help and won't be hurt or let off the hook by your personal issues.

Ken


Top
#13943 - 04/21/06 05:39 AM Re: Treating sex offenders
Morning Star Offline
Member

Registered: 12/21/04
Posts: 1124
Loc: Home
I can imagine what you might be going thru dealing with sex offenders day in and day out, when your own issues are not resolved completely. Be aware that you might end up damamging yourself more in the long run than helping any one else, it is time to get selfish and save yourself first before you save any one else, for that would stop you from getting triggered every now and then and going off on an tangent.

I believe you would make much better healer if you are yourself healed, and with your courage and determination I can only imagine how much better your inner self would feel, soon.

Keep it up!

_________________________
~ It's over!...Let go of Thy Past, Remember Thy Self ~

Why Don't People Heal, by Caroline Myss; 30 days to clean up your vibrations - Abraham-Hicks

Top
#13944 - 04/21/06 10:12 AM Re: Treating sex offenders
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
Mark,

I don't thing you are screwed up, but it sounds like you are walking a tightrope here. As a professional you are trying to help perpetrators, but you consider them worthless from the outset. I'm not sure how one would deal with this contradiction. And at the same time, as a survivor you feel like you are still under the power of a perp against whom you want revenge, but you don't seek it because you feel you aren't worth the effort. It all sounds like there is a swarm of difficult and potentially very harmful issues at work here.

I hope I don't sound like I am criticizing you; I don't mean to be saying that at all and in fact I admire your ability to proceed like this. I just wonder how good it is for you; remaining objective when you still have major issues as a survivor must be absolutely exhausting in emotional terms. Is this the best use of your resources?

That's for you to decide of course, but Ken makes a good point about the usefulness of having the input of an objective third party.

Much love,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

Top
#13945 - 04/21/06 09:52 PM Re: Treating sex offenders
mark250676 Offline
Member

Registered: 03/01/06
Posts: 310
Loc: England
Sorry I think I didn't explain my feelings properly in the original post. I don't see the offenders as worthless on reflection. I think internally I compare them to my abuser and the power he has over me. To see an work with an offender who offended against someone else gives me a chance to professionally look at the motives, the reasons, the dynamics etc.

I've read all your comments and as ever they are spot on and helpful to me to understand where I am. I think part of me came into social work in a covert method of seeking help for myself before I had told anyone.

_________________________
Survivor and fighter!

Top
#13946 - 04/21/06 10:12 PM Re: Treating sex offenders
reality2k4 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/06/04
Posts: 6838
Loc: Stuck between water, air, and ...
Mark,

firstly, sex offenders come in all forms of flavor and variety.
As a victim, I would obviously have extreme views on how they react to what they do.

You too would have the same reasons, but I think most child sex offenders believe that it is normal what they do, and are in denial of hurt.

Sex offender courses surely must bring them together in some sort of coaliton in like minds, regardless of what they have done.
Without resources and proper help, it is not appropriate to treat sex offenders in a common group.

Maybe I am wrong, but to put a group of men who fancy kids together, and not expect future contact within the group does not add up.

I also believe that a sex offender is unlikely to be cured of obsessions without psycho sexual psychiatrist, and even then the risk must be high, whether they catch them at it again or not.

It is only my view as a child victim and how clever they can be, far cleverer than me,

ste

_________________________
Whoever stole the Sun, put it back and we'll drop all the charges!

Top
#13947 - 04/21/06 10:24 PM Re: Treating sex offenders
mark250676 Offline
Member

Registered: 03/01/06
Posts: 310
Loc: England
Sorry I should explain. These people have been through psycho sexual therapy and I support them to live in the community whilst reducing risks to the community. They are all 65+ and have been diagnosed with mental health problems. Although many of my colleagues feel this is a device to deny responsibility for there actions.

_________________________
Survivor and fighter!

Top
#13948 - 04/21/06 10:52 PM Re: Treating sex offenders
RICK57 Offline
Member

Registered: 12/31/03
Posts: 1611
Loc: ENGLAND
Mark - do any of them actually admit that they have committed crimes against children?

I only wonder, because one James Fowler (69 years old and worried about receiving his medication if he got time...I'm sure there is a pun in there somewhere) recently walked from Crown Court in Durham, County Durham with a suspended sentence! Still denying his crimes, although he must sign the sex offenders register for the next 10 years (they expect him to die within that time frame, although they obviously didn't check how old his father was when he died).

He is expected to attend a sex offenders 'education course' whatever that is!

I think that what you are attempting to do is admirable - I just don't really believe that you will change any of these perverts!

James Fowler allegedly has not committed any offences since 1977 (make that currently known offences).

In October 2004, he was still using the same grooming techniques that he used with me...hence I have appealed the sentence!

They will feed you as much bullshit as they think will make you happy!

Look at articles that sometimes appear in the media... the majority of these known paedophiles are 'harmless old men of pensionable age'.

James Fowlere was described as 'an elderly gentleman answering for indiscretions from years ago' - he is actually a convicted paedophile, and gentleman and indiscretions don't come in to it at all!

I wish you luck!

Best wishes ..Rik

*Are you looking for answers from these perps, that you did not get from those that abused you?

_________________________
*Never look down on anybody unless you're helping them up.
*I was seeking a way of expressing my anger - I found hope!
*There are many battles before the war is won! It can be won!

Top
#13949 - 04/21/06 11:10 PM Re: Treating sex offenders
mark250676 Offline
Member

Registered: 03/01/06
Posts: 310
Loc: England
Rick,
I followed your recent court expereinces with interest and anger at the end result. First of all I need to say I 100% admire you for what you did. Your courage is awe inspiring!

To answer your question. Most of my 'clients' contact mind or other mental health organisations when arrested and they are usually discharged as they are deemed unable to be accountable for their actions due to their mental health diagnosis.

They should be referred to the forensic social workers for a report but as they are 65+ they very rarely are.

Society and the system views these men as pensioners who are unlikely to harm anyone. In reality the risk is still very high. But all services / specialist treatment units etc will not treat people over 65.

So do we place these people in residential care? With vunerable adults? This exposes the lack of understanding within the system that the abuse is about power and oppurtunity.

Thats why I keep doing the job because these people still pose a risk and still need therapy. But it's a fight to get it. As a result the community is at risk.

Mark

_________________________
Survivor and fighter!

Top
#13950 - 04/21/06 11:32 PM Re: Treating sex offenders
RICK57 Offline
Member

Registered: 12/31/03
Posts: 1611
Loc: ENGLAND
Mark - thanks - that explanation gives me much more clarity of what you are attempting to achieve.

I hope that someday the powers that be, will recognise that people are living longer, and staying fit throughout their lifetime...that means that they can be a risk at any age!

If someone over 65 is deemed not to be a risk, why is it that we have some men of a 'risk free age' still fathering children! Example...Des O'Connor, fathering a child in his 70's (he's not a risk anyone..if you do an internet search on him, don't buy his records,... it's your ears that will be in danger).

I remember as a child, anyone around 40 looked ancient (they still do on photographs that I have from that time). A 40 year old then would look like a sprightly 80 year old now!

Mark do what you can - we can only support you in that! You are obviously in a position to monitor if any of them attempt to apply inappropriate behaviour!

Best wishes ...Rik

_________________________
*Never look down on anybody unless you're helping them up.
*I was seeking a way of expressing my anger - I found hope!
*There are many battles before the war is won! It can be won!

Top
#13951 - 04/22/06 01:12 PM Re: Treating sex offenders
reality2k4 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/06/04
Posts: 6838
Loc: Stuck between water, air, and ...
Mark,

age should not be a barrier to offenders sentencing.
Lets face it, these pensioners have been doing it for years, they dont just start at an elderly age.

I do not believe they can be cured, only monitored, but they have a lot more time on their hands than the authorities, and can easily evade detection by switching tactics.

What I found in years of working with peoples problems, is just how gullible people can be.
In Riks case, Fowler did not get a fair trial!
He got the outcome he never expected.

I cannot think why the judge never gave him custody, but judges try to keep things within the public purse!
Money stops Rik getting a fair trial by jury, and it is turned into a farce by a barrister.

What bothers me, is that he will be on a sex offenders course, which will give him access to other "gentlemen" of the same persuasion.
And no, none of these perps have a mental prob.

They have control problems, and want the power over innocence like they have always had.

Thats my two cents,

ste

_________________________
Whoever stole the Sun, put it back and we'll drop all the charges!

Top
#13952 - 04/22/06 02:21 PM Re: Treating sex offenders
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
Too old to go to prison, too old to treat at public expense, gentleman, indiscretion, yada yada yada. It's like the Lefave case where she was actually deemed "too beautiful" for jail.

Sometimes I wonder if the world is just going insane. I marvel at your patience in coping with the system Mark.

Much love,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

Top
#13953 - 04/26/06 08:43 PM Re: Treating sex offenders
Morning Star Offline
Member

Registered: 12/21/04
Posts: 1124
Loc: Home
Mark,

you are the first person I have come across here that works untiredly for the children who would have got hurt otherwise.

Throwing away sex offenders at the fringes of the society is a far bigger crime than ignoring them altogether as it endangers those people who live at the fringes of the society themselves.

And that is what makes your job all the more special as you dont allow your own sense of unhealedness to prevent you from working with sex offenders, rather it inspires you to do the same.

Hats off to you for sticking on in a system that overwhelms us just as onlookers, and thank you sticking on when it is so easy to become a victim yourself and ignore that your presence in there is stopping from more kids from joining the ranks of victims. God knows, how many children you might have saved today.

And to be the saviour you never really had, is truly inspiring.

Though I dont know much about your mind, but I can say for sure that your heart has healed my friend as I can see your soul shining thru, each day.

_________________________
~ It's over!...Let go of Thy Past, Remember Thy Self ~

Why Don't People Heal, by Caroline Myss; 30 days to clean up your vibrations - Abraham-Hicks

Top
#13954 - 04/27/06 12:20 AM Re: Treating sex offenders
mark250676 Offline
Member

Registered: 03/01/06
Posts: 310
Loc: England
Everyone on this board is amazing!

We've been through one of the worst things that can happen to anyone and we haven't kept quite.

Thats what helps me.

When I said earlier that I viewed the offenders as worthless. I was wrong. What I was trying to say is when you take the offender away from the imensense pain they caused to all of us you realise why they abused children. Because they prey on the vulnerable. Yeah it sounds obvious but to see it in reality opens your eyes.

We are adults and don't abuse kids or vulnerable people. We have won!

That is power!

Mark

_________________________
Survivor and fighter!

Top
#13955 - 04/27/06 03:49 AM Re: Treating sex offenders
Morning Star Offline
Member

Registered: 12/21/04
Posts: 1124
Loc: Home
Yes I see that so clear and 'mark' that your extra ordinary compassion is the gift of lack of compassion you have felt in the past and that is where your healing takes a leap from all of us here, who are still thinking of executing their abusers without even knowing why they did, what they did and thus miss an opportunity to learn from their inhumanity, the greatest lesson of compassion we could ever get.

It was sign of their own powerlessness when they tried to overpower innocent children, and not power.

True power is of compassion, forgiveness and willingness to change and yes letting go of the past. Surprisingly few people want that kind of power, most are happy being a victim, because it allows them to be powerful by relinquishing their power over tomorrow, and keeps them rooted in the blame game, and anger the supplement they get from it each day.

You have been an inspiration once again, thank you.

_________________________
~ It's over!...Let go of Thy Past, Remember Thy Self ~

Why Don't People Heal, by Caroline Myss; 30 days to clean up your vibrations - Abraham-Hicks

Top
Page 1 of 2 1 2 >


Moderator:  ModTeam, TJ jeff 

I agree that my access and use of the MaleSurvivor discussion forums and chat room is subject to the terms of this Agreement. AND the sole discretion of MaleSurvivor.
I agree that my use of MaleSurvivor resources are AT-WILL, and that my posting privileges may be terminated at any time, and for any reason by MaleSurvivor.