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#132733 - 12/11/06 11:29 PM How do you know?
GuyD2006 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 07/06/06
Posts: 20
Loc: Louisiana
How do you know? Gay or straight? I think that choice was taken from me. I was abused at about 4 years old by a neighborhood kid. Then again when I was 12 by a coach. During the years between the abuses, I had an attraction to boys. How do I know if that was natural or not? I had many sexual hookups with girls in highschool, but I was also attracted to boys. I think the abuse led to me being attracted to boys, but I'm not sure and will never be sure. My thearpist said she does not think I am Gay but I am attracted to both sexes. So am I Bi? Gay men say there is no such thing...they say I'm confused. I do know that my life revolved around sex, drugs and more sex for a long time, now that I'm in recovery, I have been able to limit my acting out. I am happy about that but I think a part of me will always believe that my choice was taken away.

Guy D.


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#132734 - 12/12/06 02:24 AM Re: How do you know?
WalkingSouth Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/30/05
Posts: 16264
Guy,

I think there are many of us that feel or have felt similarly to you. For me, I feel not so much that my choice was taken from me, but that any chance for a clear understanding of my sexuality was taken.

In my mind, the question is not so much "What am I?", as it is "Where do I go from here?". I've chosen a heterosexual lifestyle, and will live that lifestyle the rest of my life. I've taken marriage vows which I have no intention of breaking in order to see what the "other side" is like. The challenge then becomes the ability to be comfortable in the skin I've chosen to wear. I'll have to say that the path of recovery I've been on is going a long way toward bring some resolution to that issue.

So that is a brief de>
_________________________
“Life’s journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting ‘Holy ____…! What a ride!’” ~Hunter S. Thompson

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#132735 - 12/13/06 04:27 AM Re: How do you know?
Russ2 Offline
Member

Registered: 10/28/03
Posts: 77
Hi Guy,

Thank you for posting on such an important topic. I would simply like to add that I happen to be a gay man and I certainly believe there is such a thing as bisexual. In fact, I think there are probably just as many bisexual people in the world as there are people at the two extreme ends of this continuum.

Many of us spend years seeking a clear-cut cause/effect explanation for our sexuality. But at some point we have to begin to accept ourselves for who we are -- regardless of logic or reasoning or explanation. If you are sexually attracted to women, and you are also sexually attracted to men, then you are a bisexual man by definition. Of course, you do have choices to make. You choose your behavior, your partner, your identity, your lifestyle, your politics, your morality. But you do not really have a choice to make about your sexual orientation -- it is what it is.

Take care,
Russ


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#132736 - 12/13/06 05:38 PM Re: How do you know?
shadowkid Offline
WARNING from ModTeam, September 2013: user "Shadowkid" was exposed as a hoaxer. His entire online persona and stories of sexual abuse were fiction. We encourage you not to become emotionally concerned by anything you see in any of his posts. Thank you
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/18/05
Posts: 2437
where does this leave people who cause of their abuse have no orientation at all? only the memories of something so bad they dont ever want anything to do with sex at all? to me sex ,gay straight or in between equals pain shame and guilt .i was taught that my orgasm was the final sign that i really did like it .but i wasnt born that way

_________________________
its not hard to fall
when you float like a cannonball - damien rice

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#132737 - 12/13/06 06:06 PM Re: How do you know?
phoster Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/21/03
Posts: 758
Loc: ohio
right or wrong, what has helped me is that it doesnt matter what name i put on it. what counts is that i am okay with who and what i am.

my sexuality is complex, a mix of atractions, some healthy, some not. what i had to do was make peace with those, and realize in the end how i acted here and now was mine to choose.

_________________________
compassion is a light even to the darkest soul

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#132738 - 12/13/06 08:46 PM Re: How do you know?
GuyD2006 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 07/06/06
Posts: 20
Loc: Louisiana
Thanks for the responses. I think the consensus is that we are all varying shades of homosexual or heterosexual. I will just have to live with my attraction to both sexes, in some ways I should consider myself blessed for being able to appreciate both male and female. This society however pushes for a clear cut answer, and that makes it difficult. For now I choose to live a heterosexual life and be monagomous. Being in recovery from drug and sex abuse, it is nice to finally have some self control. I need to stop trying to rationalize my feelings towards each sex and just be OK with myself. Thanks again for the feedback, this site is such a blessing.

Guy D.


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#132739 - 12/13/06 08:51 PM Re: How do you know?
phoster Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/21/03
Posts: 758
Loc: ohio
you and i are alike in that way. what i have decided is that when i married my wife, it meant forsaking everyone else. for you and i those others may very well be some men too, but what is the difference? we still made a choice to forsake all others and be faithful to someone we love. i guess that was an important step for me, when it became my choice instead of all the confusing stuff. chosing gave me power. just that perception that i chose my wife helped. it felt like i walked away from the others instead of having to deny myself something i enjoyed. i hope it helps you too.

_________________________
compassion is a light even to the darkest soul

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#139441 - 01/29/07 06:04 PM Re: How do you know? [Re: phoster]
Mark Antony Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 01/03/07
Posts: 34
Loc: Michigan
The unstable sexual attraction comes from being arrested in development. You are like a teenager who is still experiencing
all the turmoil of adolescence. As healing occurs your sexuality will become stable and the answer will be clear. You stated that you for now have chosen the heterosexual life style if this is through a marriage commitment this is not a for now deal. Marriage is for a lifetime. Remember the until death do us part line in the vows. If you are not married then this most defiantly needs to be resolved before marriage.


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#139538 - 01/30/07 06:37 AM Re: How do you know? [Re: Mark Antony]
sabata Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/08/06
Posts: 1948
yea i have been in arrested development for years...now i chose to be alone..no relation ships as far as sexual..male or female...it all gets to complicated steve


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#139620 - 01/30/07 07:08 PM Re: How do you know? [Re: sabata]
Ivanhoe Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/19/03
Posts: 1907
Yes, we all were arrested at some point. After all, it was our sexuality that was abused, wasn't it. There's a great article that was written by my therapist, Donald Mann. I'll see if I can get John Walkingsouth...sounds Native American, doesn't he?...to upload it to the site, my scanner is down. In the mean time, I wouldn't make up your minds so quickly on this issue without working it out in therapy. Being confused, frustrated, angry and even celebate, are just some of the coping mechanisms we find outselves faced with. All I know is that being sexually abused as a boy of 7, 9 and 13--17, left me feeling that I was neither and that I didn't belong anywhere. Was I able to enjoy sex with my wife, be part of making two of the most beautiful babies in the world and watch them grow into two great young women,?, Yes, I was. Did therapy throw me for loops of ups and downs?, Ya. Is it getting better? Yes, it is. Did I think that I wasn't going to make? Yes, at times. But then, catastophic thinking is another trait survivors get stuck with.
Sorry to go on so long, I'll contact His John-ness to see if I can get him to do upload that article for us.
Courage,
David

_________________________
"No soul is desolate as long as there is a human being for whom it can feel trust and reverence."
George Eliot

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#139628 - 01/30/07 08:47 PM Re: How do you know? [Re: Mark Antony]
WalkingSouth Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/30/05
Posts: 16264
Originally Posted By: Mark Antony
The unstable sexual attraction comes from being arrested in development. You are like a teenager who is still experiencing
all the turmoil of adolescence. As healing occurs your sexuality will become stable and the answer will be clear. You stated that you for now have chosen the heterosexual life style if this is through a marriage commitment this is not a for now deal. Marriage is for a lifetime. Remember the until death do us part line in the vows. If you are not married then this most defiantly needs to be resolved before marriage.


Mark Antony,

I agree with you regarding what you say about marriage being a "till death do us part". That is my commitment and the commitment of many of the rest of the men here who find themselves similarly effected.

Sure, there are those who don't see it that way, and take a more "for now" attitude regarding their commitments, but that is a problem with all humanity, not an issue relegated to SA survivors.

Thanks for posting your comment. Food for thought.

Lots of love,

John

_________________________
“Life’s journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting ‘Holy ____…! What a ride!’” ~Hunter S. Thompson

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#139868 - 02/01/07 10:54 AM Re: How do you know? [Re: WalkingSouth]
Hauser Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/12/05
Posts: 2962
Loc: United States
I know ALL ABOUT sexual confusion. After I was abused at 9 I still wasn't sexually interested in anything, until I was around 12 years old, and the hormones started kicking in, then the confusion started. Actually, I was strictly looking at the other boys, when all the boys were only talking about girls. THAT'S where the confusion was. So, that left me to be alone, to this day.


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#140106 - 02/02/07 11:08 PM Re: How do you know? [Re: Ivanhoe]
AshSurvived Offline
Member

Registered: 01/07/07
Posts: 167
Loc: Australia
Thanks for your wise words Ivanhoe. I hope others of you have gained some respite from what Ivanhoe has said. While I'm not gay and I am past the sexual identity struggle, for me it was dominant women and Bondage. But when I acted on the urges, what seemed 'natural' I had massive flashbacks and that is what finally triggered me to seek help and to realise the 'orientation' was a side effect of the abuse, not the defining factor in my identity.

I hope others of you who are just starting out in healing take comfort from this also. You may need to be 'yourself' in order to realise it's not really you, it's no good hiding behind social conventions such as marriage vows or other contractual arrangements, they won't solve your crises and they won't heal the past.

_________________________
"It's your world Dave, I'm just livin' in it"

- Harvey Pekar to David Letterman
(American Splendour)

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#140133 - 02/03/07 11:12 AM Re: How do you know? [Re: AshSurvived]
beccy Offline
Member

Registered: 05/28/06
Posts: 449
Loc: england
That's such a good way of putting it Ash,


I know I'm not a man, and I haven't had identity issues, but I've definately had sexual issues and relate to what you say there. I definately don't think the sexual fantasies/fetishes define a person's actual identity, although it does seem that some people can end up spending a great deal of time immersing themselves living out those fantasies. If that makes any sense.......


peace
Beccy


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#140135 - 02/03/07 11:29 AM Re: How do you know? [Re: AshSurvived]
ScottyTodd Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 02/12/03
Posts: 1561
Loc: Pennsylvania
MAY CONTAIN TRIGGERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!It was encouraging to hear your stories about sexual identity confusion. For years I had lived in a dichotomist world! I'll explain. When my sexual abuse started at 4/5 years of age by my male and female cousins, it flipped a "sexual apetite" that was unleashed and gender blind on the world. I reported my abuse to my parents who punished, spanked, whipped and threatened me. No help there, I just gave in to the "sexual apetite". I had sex with kids my age both male/female (about 40-50+ during prepub. years) and forged on. Intermitantly I was raped by older teens, etc. My parent's caught me having sex with a same age female family friend (13 yr. old). They made such "a thing" out of it, they made me vow NEVER to do this again. I had no problems agreeing not having heterosexual relationships because I still had homosexual opportunities. From 13 through 20/21 I was exclusively homosexual (about 7 regulars and 50 day-to-days) never touched a girl [honored my vow]. I met a beautiful, lovely girl at 22, dated, broke my vow and married her (now it's been 37 yrs). I still had bi-sexual urges that were not under my control...so for about 6 years of our marriage I had a gorgeous hung bf at grad school and a wife and daughter back home. My wife caught on and gave me an ultimatum to choose! Then like Phoster, I realized my vows one way or the other. I chose to remain married and have really enjoyed that choice then to the present! Do I still get bi-feelings? Yes I do! But know that if I get married, I've made my choice and keep a vow.

Sorry for the long discourse but I wanted to share in a messed up "sex uncontrolled" life, exclusive (!!) homosexual orgy; a bisexual best of both worlds and a final choice lasting 37 years, 3 children, 1 grandson. How do you know? Sometimes you choose your path and accept it as right for you.

Howard

_________________________
If you think you can or you can't - you're right!.......anon
It's never too late to have a happy childhood!.....anon
You're very normal for the abnormal situation you've been through..............S. Todd

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#140499 - 02/06/07 09:02 AM Re: How do you know? [Re: Ivanhoe]
jj2000 Offline
New Here

Registered: 02/06/07
Posts: 6
All I can say is that I'm attracted to men,and I don't want to be. I have had experiences a few times with men and women, more men; but when I'm with a man I feel disgusting for days later, when I'm with a woman it's just sexual satisfaction,I have only been with two woman and I am so confused because I'm not attracted to them.


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#140502 - 02/06/07 09:07 AM Re: How do you know? [Re: jj2000]
jj2000 Offline
New Here

Registered: 02/06/07
Posts: 6
At least when I'm with women I don't feel disgusting. can anyone clarify that for me?


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#140503 - 02/06/07 09:10 AM Re: How do you know? [Re: jj2000]
jj2000 Offline
New Here

Registered: 02/06/07
Posts: 6
I'm a little nervous doing this so please be patient with me. I just don't understand myself.


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#140504 - 02/06/07 09:12 AM Re: How do you know? [Re: jj2000]
jj2000 Offline
New Here

Registered: 02/06/07
Posts: 6
I wonder If it stems from my abuse.


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#140506 - 02/06/07 09:15 AM Re: How do you know? [Re: jj2000]
jj2000 Offline
New Here

Registered: 02/06/07
Posts: 6
Is anyone there please?


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#140507 - 02/06/07 09:21 AM Re: How do you know? [Re: jj2000]
jj2000 Offline
New Here

Registered: 02/06/07
Posts: 6
I'm Sorry if I offended anyone, that was not my entetion. I guess I sholdn't have jumped on the board so fast God bless, have a nice night.


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#140513 - 02/06/07 09:49 AM Re: How do you know? [Re: jj2000]
beccy Offline
Member

Registered: 05/28/06
Posts: 449
Loc: england
Hi jj2000,


sometimes it can take a while here till someone responds to a post...I'm sure you didn't offend anyone.


I don't have the answers to give you, they will all be within you, and I'm sure a good therapist would help you to understand your attractions more.



peace
Beccy


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#140527 - 02/06/07 01:20 PM Re: How do you know? [Re: beccy]
Dewey2k Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/22/05
Posts: 3069
JJ,

A lot of people tend to think of sexuality as 1/0 on/off black/white. It's not that simple.

Gay, Straight, Bi... it's all a label that restricts us and binds us to someone elses expectations. In my opinion, humans are sexual. Everything else is just a detail.

Your attractions are something that you can work with in counseling. It may be that your attraction to men is a residual result from the abuse. I don't know. That is something you'll have to discover as time goes on.

Welcome to the site. \:\)


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#140537 - 02/06/07 04:34 PM Re: How do you know? [Re: jj2000]
Paul1959 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/17/06
Posts: 525
Loc: NYC
Hey, jj
yep, we're here. just perhaps not at the same time zone! yes, it all stems from your abuse. You are normal. You aren't alone. It affects the vast majority of guys who have been abused - some more than others.
I would take those feelings as signs of where you really are. If your experiences with guys makes you feel dirty, those are your feelings. If you feel better with women, that's a strong sign as well. Do you have a therapist? this stuff is hard to sort out alone.
Paul


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#140542 - 02/06/07 05:36 PM Re: How do you know? [Re: jj2000]
Ken Singer, LCSW Offline
Moderator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/24/00
Posts: 5778
Loc: Lambertville, NJ USA
Hi ii:
Welcome to MS. Not every post gets answered and not all get responses right away. Please be patient. You have raised a good question that a lot of men around here have discussed in this forum and other ones on the site.

I'm sure you will get some feedback from others.

Ken


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#140553 - 02/06/07 10:36 PM Re: How do you know? [Re: jj2000]
lostcowboy Offline
Member

Registered: 11/10/04
Posts: 797
Loc: North Texas
Hi JJ2000, I totally understand you being nervous. Welcome to the board. I am sorry that you needed to find us. Hopefully as you talk to us things will become clearer. I do recommend finding a good therapist that works with male survivors. One of these days I'll have to follow my own advice, until then I am just winging it.

About the feeling disgusting when being with men, and not felling disgusting when being with women. This could just be from social conditioning. Being with a man is bad, and being with a woman is good. Are you straight or gay, I think for now that is less important than to realize that what happened to you, has effected you long term and is still effecting you. Telling us about it will help you to understand and come to terms with it.

Take care,
Clifford

_________________________
"Don't walk in front of me, I may not follow. Don't walk behind me, I may not lead. Just walk beside me and be my friend." - Albert Camus
Pretty much my life as I have posted so far. Triggers!

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#141073 - 02/10/07 10:42 PM Re: How do you know? [Re: Ivanhoe]
dillon Offline
Guest

Registered: 02/02/07
Posts: 55
Loc: california,san deigo
same thing happend to me when i was 4 i was being sexually abused for 11 years when i was 11 i was sexually abused again by a whole diffrent person and i have thoughts about boys but i want to go out with girls so what im trying to say is that ur not alone =)

_________________________
watch this video

[url=link] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zSWUYeNDwX0

New video!!

[url=link]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kroz7SmSLTw&mode=related&search=

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#141074 - 02/10/07 10:57 PM Re: How do you know? [Re: dillon]
WalkingSouth Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/30/05
Posts: 16264
dillon,

just want to say welcome to the DB. Glad you were able to find us. Sorry you were abused. It's happened to most of us here, and it hurts. Thanks for chiming in to reassure another person that they are not alone. I can tell from that that you're one of the good guys. Again, welcome.

Safe Hugs,

John

_________________________
“Life’s journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting ‘Holy ____…! What a ride!’” ~Hunter S. Thompson

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#141253 - 02/12/07 10:19 AM Re: How do you know? [Re: WalkingSouth]
dillon Offline
Guest

Registered: 02/02/07
Posts: 55
Loc: california,san deigo
thanx =)

_________________________
watch this video

[url=link] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zSWUYeNDwX0

New video!!

[url=link]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kroz7SmSLTw&mode=related&search=

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#142639 - 02/21/07 06:32 PM Re: How do you know? [Re: Ivanhoe]
needs2heal Offline
New Here

Registered: 02/14/07
Posts: 3
Hey,

I have just read the posts and I am was confused about my sexuality. I was SA by a male and it felt that the choice was taken away. That was until recently when I was finally able to share my story here. For 12 years I remained in denial about the abuse and not to mention, torn between being gay or straight. Since then (telling my story), I have been working on regaining my choice. At the time, it did feel like I had no choice and left me feeling torn between the two, but now I know that the abuse happened to me. With it happening to me, I know that it was not my fault and that I made or had no choice in the matter. Now I am standing up for the child inside of me, that 11 year old boy and I am reclaiming my choice. I get a choice in the matter and I, me, I will make the choice.

I do not know if this helps anyone else. What I feel like I should say is if you feel you had no choice in matter of your sexuality, then NOW, wherever you are, take a stand for that boy that was abused and that lives inside of you; stand up and reclaim that choice for HIM. This is not to say that the road is not hard, it will be, but the boy inside of you deserves it, does he? BY THE WAY, for any females, this works the other way as well.

Stand up and reclaim the choice. You make the decision, do not let anyone make it for you. It is your life.

Sorry for such a long post.

Josh


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#142791 - 02/22/07 05:37 PM Re: How do you know? [Re: needs2heal]
dean1320 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/06/07
Posts: 129
Loc: Atlanta, GA , US
I am reading and doing the exercises in a book called " The Sexual Healing Journey. A guide for Survivor's of Sexual Abuse" by Wendy Maltz. It might be of some help. I am a gay man, but have had your concerns in the past, myself. Take care of yourself and keep hanging on.

_________________________
NEVER QUIT .

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#143084 - 02/24/07 06:38 PM Re: How do you know? [Re: dean1320]
Joseph25 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 12/04/06
Posts: 76
Loc: Canada
My ititial abuse and after effect of self isolation and wanting to be accepted lead to abuse by others. What has happened is the same of many of your stories. I don't want to be attracted to men but I am. Of the 2 times that it consentually happened I blanked out and then was tramatized for weeks. Throwing up, not leaving my apartment, and taking showers until the water tank turned ice cold. The times with girls I feel discussed with myself afterwards and intentually end however long the relatioship had lasted... I wanted to say something more positive but I can't find the words right now.


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#143086 - 02/24/07 07:31 PM Re: How do you know? [Re: Joseph25]
sabata Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/08/06
Posts: 1948
You Are Doing Just Fine .....Joseph......Let It Out....When You Feel Its Right....It Gets Better......Steve


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#269245 - 12/29/08 08:26 PM Re: How do you know? [Re: Ivanhoe]
Puzzled Offline


Registered: 08/30/08
Posts: 18
HEY It looks like in one way or another this has effected all of us. I have had years of unhealthy sex with both gender and since I entered T I have had no sex and I really am not sure what I am going to do. I have alot of issues from being sexually abused by my older brother for years when I was a kid. Sometimes I think I might just stay celibate. GOOD LUCK


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#269261 - 12/29/08 10:18 PM Re: How do you know? [Re: Puzzled]
AndyS87 Offline


Registered: 12/12/08
Posts: 302
Loc: sorry, but I don't say on the ...
Funny you should mention celibacy, that makes me think of a funny story from when I was like 4 or 5. My Mom asked me what I wanted to be when I grew up and one day I told her I wanted to be a priest or a monk or something like that and go live in a monastery (godfather and close family friend was actually an archbishop until he passed a few years ago, and I miss him like you wouldn't believe. Back then I was too young to appreciate how wise he was though). Anyways, that became a running joke in the family, but hey, three of my friends who are some of the most religion bashing people I know just became ordained ministers online. Maybe I'll give it a shot (no offense to anybody who is really really religious).


Anyways, maybe that'd be a lot funnier if any of you knew me outside the internet and what a mischievous little shit I am sometimes. My Dad claims that my smart-assery is a lot less annoying now that I'm away at college though.


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#269319 - 12/30/08 08:50 AM Re: How do you know? [Re: AndyS87]
Juni Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor


Registered: 12/10/08
Posts: 502
Loc: Florida, WPB
When I was a youngster I also wanted to be a priest. I had reached a point in my life once, where I actually wanted to have an orchiectomy (removal of the testis) so that my need for sex (which I considered love) would abate. I had lost one testicle as a youngster due to physical abuse and had a prosthetic put in place as an adult.. I was newly married and failing miserably at it. I was dealing with some identity issues and was sick of it all. I actually tried to strangle my testicle so it would die. I was not successful and took to drinking large amounts until I got some help.

_________________________
Today I'm O.K.
One day at a time I make the journey.

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#269339 - 12/30/08 10:15 AM Re: How do you know? [Re: Juni]
AndyS87 Offline


Registered: 12/12/08
Posts: 302
Loc: sorry, but I don't say on the ...
YEah, I never went that far myself. Well maybe passively, my twin sisters favorite thing to do from fifth-8th grade if I really pissed her off was to give me a swift kick in the nads, and I pissed her off A LOT. Then there was the whole thing where I never used to wear a cup when I was sparring, so you can imagine how that ended. I've actually gotten pretty good at taking groin shots. I just hope I don't end up sterile.


Funny thing about that too is I'm Eastern Orthodox, you can make it all the way up to high priest and still be married. Bishop or higher tho you gotta be celibate.




Sry, I feel like I hijacked the thread.


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