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#132709 - 11/23/06 08:03 PM my boyfriend
beccy Offline
Member

Registered: 05/28/06
Posts: 449
Loc: england
Hi everyone, I haven't written in this forum before, but feel the need to tonight.

My bf has major issues concerning his sexual identity. He is a survivor of both incest by his sister when very young (4-6?) and abuse by a teacher(9-12). He cannot recall much of what might have happened with the teacher.

Please read my topic in the friends and family forum for what happened(again) last night.


Do you think he would come on to me sexually quite a lot(physically) if he didn't want me sexually? He seems so confused and I want to trust him, but it's so hard.......

any advice would be much appreciated,


peace
Beccy


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#132710 - 11/23/06 08:10 PM Re: my boyfriend
beccy Offline
Member

Registered: 05/28/06
Posts: 449
Loc: england
sorry, I should add that we've been together 12 years, we've had a great big tone of sexual/intimacy problems. I haven't been able to 'connect' with him since about 6 months ago, as he seems so unsure of who he is and I've had my own(although far, far less serious) abuse memory return recently, which I believe has affected a lot of things between us too.......I've just been finding it really hard to trust what his intentions are for me.


I don't believe he's getting everything he should be from me and worry this is contributing further to his gay worry........it all seems like a vicious circle.


He's never actually gone through with it, but he went out a number of times(I discovered) with the intention to do that.


His therapist asked him if he thought that because he new the abuse with the teacher was wrong, he has denied that he is gay, because he's felt that must be wrong.......I'm finding it hard to decifer what the therapist ACTUALLY said, from what my bf is taking the therapist to mean. He's fairly convinced the therapist believes he's gay.....


so confusing all of this


we've got two small kids too


peace
Beccy


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#132711 - 11/27/06 07:18 PM Re: my boyfriend
Cedric Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 03/28/06
Posts: 12
Loc: New York
Beccy:

Although I don't know all of the sepcifics of the situation, I do know that I can sympathize. I was sexually abused by my sister from when I was about 6-8 years old. I've read in multiple places that this is the most damaging form of abuse (mother/siter to son/brother). The effects of this abuse are widespread and have led me to a similar place of sexual confusion (these effects have been perhaps more damaging on my self-confidence in a non-sexual way, but these two things are realted)

More than anything, the abuse has made me very sexually submissive. It's tough for me to be aroused in a position of control, and it's hard for me to find this position with a woman. THis lead me to considering similar things as your BF and in fact trying some of these things. I also struggle with gay pornography issues.

Unfortunately, these acts left me feeling more empty than before and more confused than ever and have ended some of my past relationships with woman who I've loved and cared for.


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#132712 - 11/28/06 12:55 PM Re: my boyfriend
beccy Offline
Member

Registered: 05/28/06
Posts: 449
Loc: england
Thankyou for your perspective Cedric.


I am sorry you've found it hard to find a woman who can take a dominating role with you. I suppose it must be true that there are many women who prefer the submissive role themselves, although I do wonder just how much of that is cultural closed mindedness?? There certainly ARE women who enjoy being dominating, dominatrixes I suppose! If that's something you want from a woman, I'd say that's cool and find a woman who's into that. I'm quite open minded sexually and feel that whatever a person's preferences are, is their right to find that enjoyment(as long as it's mutually consenting!).


I believe my bf has also found it difficult to enjoy the position of control, although it seems to be due to the fact he worries he may be being abusive in some way, or 'using' me. More recently, we tried a pre-discussed S&M type senario, where HE was in the dominating role, and it seems he found that exciting, and says he has fantasised about it afterwards. I think the fact it was pre-discussed, planned even, meant that he new it was what I wanted and we both knew what would be happening, and so it took the other worries away.

I've always been fairly inhibited sexually, in the sense of my 'natural' expressivness. I find it difficult to stay with the sensations in my body and seem to get distracted by the slightest thing. This has been exhaserbated by my bf's difficulties and I can see he's been missing a lot of me and also not been open to recieving/enjoying a lot of me. So we had sex the other night and I was more expressive than usual, even tried being on top, which he seemed to enjoy a lot. We're building trust by talking for hours on end about everything sexual/intimate. I feel I've not loved him fully, and this has been something I've come to realise since having our son. The way I express love/affection to our son has astounded me. The fact I never realised a man must need all that too! I feel ashamed of myself that I never loved him in that way. Although, I've picked up on all his difficulties with recieving love in that way, vulnerability etc, and read it to mean he didn't like it. I'm a sensitive person and anything that's made him uncomfortable, I've just stopped doing.


I wonder that if we give/recieve all the love/passion/caring we need from the person we choose to be with, we end up feeling 'fed' in a more whole way and perhaps hunger less for situations of submission/domination? (I wonder this on behalf of myself more than anything, as my own preference is indeed to be submissive) Having said that, I am a believer in CHOICE. I believe in the right to CHOOSE to express these sides of our sexuality, IF they are something we WANT to have in our lives. If they make us feel good, satisfied, whole etc.


My bf seems to be currently very positive about all the other sides of our sexual exploration. He's interested in how much satisafction he can derive from us both learning to be more expressive, communicative etc. It's like his sexuality is just opening up and he's just experiencing enjoyment of it for the first time. I'm actually starting to wonder if he's more sexually healthy than me. It seems he can stay aroused better than I can, he climaxed when I was on top the other night, but I didn't! All kinds of things seem to turn him on, whereas I feel that although I find other things fun and exciting, they don't actually 'arouse' me that highly. Once I did climax when we were probably doing the closest thing to 'making love' that we've ever done. Missionary we were in, and I came without any extra stimulation, which was a miracle to me! Also once about four months ago, he said something really deeply loving to me whilst in missionary and I felt myself become very aroused, much to my surprise! I found myself wondering why I'd never known something like that could turn me on??? I've had a whole host of my own problems really, and together we've made a fine mess! My theory recently, has been that maybe more of that intimate, 'making love' type of stuff might actually be what could really get me aroused, but I think we've got a way to go yet before that becomes something we can both 'do' fluidly and constistently. Also, I feel like maybe both of us just being able to enjoy being 'dirty'(for want of a better word) would be helpful to my own arousal. In the mean time, it seems like only the submissive stuff is what gets me 'over the top'. I don't really have a problem with that, except that I'm not giving that to my bf, when I now know that's been such a huge fantasy for him(although with a man). He has considered me doing this for him, and I've given serious thought to it, but it just doesn't excite me and I don't feel comfortabel just doing it like as a 'favour' or whatever. I feel bad about this situation and worry that in the end, he'll need someone else, either as a partner, or just sexually, cause he can't get this from me. He doesn't seem worried about this at the moment, and it seems like he's just waiting to see how much enjoyment he can get from everything else between us. I feel like it's a waiting game. I feel like it's as if we've only just got together, like as if we're 16 and experimenting with a first relationship and he could realise at any point he doesn't want to me my bf anymore. Except we're 30, we've been together 12 years and we've got two kids and I so desperately need some security. He says he wants to be with me forever, he loves me, he's fullfilled in every other way with me. Except sexually. What will come of this? I think the way he views it, is that, he would never wnat to leave me, instead he may need to go outside our relationship for sex. I mean, I'm not satisfied sexually either, more to do with flirting/pre-sex stuff, but I've always felt in love with him and hoped that might improve one day. So, it would seem that both of us are living with the hope of improvement, which must be a positive thing? I'm sure he's hoping his fetish to be submissive will go away as he heals, and as things improve between us. Or at least that he might not actually desire to make it reality. Who knows? It is all about choosing and being true to ourselves isn't it? If it came to it that he wanted to go outside our relationship, I can't see that working really and the uncertainty that that's in the air makes it harder for me to feel fully connected with him. Even though his present choice is NOT to do that. Even though his present choice is to be here with me.


I feel terrible guilt about not being able to give him the fantasy in reality. I'm worried it's going to get in the way of me being able to enjoy anything for myself. Certainly I feel uncomfortable about doing the thing where I'm submissive again, as it seems imbalanced for me to be getting that, when he's not. Even though he does seem to find it incredibly arousing. I think I need some therapy myself really at this point! I have a homeopath who I see, but I think I may need more than that.


Talking is the key to feeling happier sexually with a partner. If I was to be single again and have to start over, I'd want to be able to talk about sex IN DEPTH with any new partner. I'd want to know we were going to be compatable, BEFORE we started being sexual together, you know what I mean? Sexual satisfaction is something I believe we are all entitled to and something to really take into consideration when choosing our partner. I feel I did TRY to have open communication between me and my bf, but he was never honest with me.......


Strive for what you really want in a partner Cedric. Someone who can give you all the love/passion/lust/caringness you deserve. You CAN can find a woman like that, somone who you can share your full sexuality with, someone you can EXPLORE your full sexuality with, and also enjoy waking up next to her in the morning! I believe sexuality is fluid, not static. It's just a question of us all allowing ourselves to explore what we want, enjoy what we like and forgive ourselves when we get it wrong.


peace
Beccy


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#132713 - 11/30/06 08:08 PM Re: my boyfriend
alexey Offline
Moderator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 08/16/05
Posts: 1674
Loc: Moscow, Russia
Beccy,

I read your story with sadness and I feel that you love him.

I am afraid I can't offer a good advice on the point. One thing only came to mind. Survivors (me particularly) are hardly dealing with feelings, and when I am become emotional, it is a mess, and not a pleasant thing to be felt by others. Also, when emotional, I still can feel fragmented and behave in a machine-like mode. So, it can seem unnatural, I think.

It is the problem for survivors to become affectionate and emotinal.

Take good care,

Alexey

_________________________
(\__/)
(='.'=)
E[:]|||||[:]3
(")_(")
--------
When you feel all alone and unhappy, turn to you Inner Child and talk to Him.
You will see He can comfort you like nothing else!

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#132714 - 12/11/06 05:03 AM Re: my boyfriend
AmazingGrace Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 12/11/06
Posts: 1
Loc: New Zealand
Beccy,
I read your story and it feels like you are both going through some changes right now- you said it yourself when you mentioned sexuality not being 'static'. Just get swept in and back out again with the tides of your growing relationship with this great man of yours. You are doing an awesome job at understanding him it seems. Just hang on and the tide will turn again soon.
Cheers hon.


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#132715 - 12/14/06 02:31 PM Re: my boyfriend
beccy Offline
Member

Registered: 05/28/06
Posts: 449
Loc: england
Thanks for your replies alexey and Amazing grace.....


I am indeed hanging on in here, this relationship.....I told my bf two weeks ago that it was no longer ok for me to hear that he didn't want to have sex with a man at the moment, but didn't know what he might want tin the future. I said I was sorry if i haven't been a good enough partner so far, for him to be able to really know if he can be happy with me, but as far as I could see, the only way this relationship has the chance to move forward, is if i can love him fully. And that I cannot love him fully, in the knowing that he's not really sure about us. He said he was sure he always wants to be with and that sex with men would be just that. Sex. So, I said "in that case, it is ok with you if i also go outside our relationship for sex with others at some point in the future? I don't want to right now, but maybe I might one day...." I said there are so many things I dont' get from you in this relationship, so if we're both dissatisfied, why don't we both play away? Well, that seemed to wake him up a bit. He said he chooses me. I had to take the chance of saying what I said, even though he may have chosen the other......

During that conversation, I asked him if he would want a relationship with a man and he realised he didn't. It seems this has sorted out his identity issue and he's been very happy about it since then. So, I have been trying to feel relieved. But I have to admit, a great part of me is just waiting for the next time he becomes confused once again about his identity.....it's happened so many times....


To be honest with you, I still worry about how happy we can be together. There are so many things I don't understand about him. I have a feeling that sexually, he would like me to take control more. With him being submissive. But this just doesn't make sense to me on a personal level. It's just not me. I find that if i flirt with him, he reacts in a number of ways; He either ignores me, or becommes kind of submissive. Neither of which I have any idea hwo to deal with. Also, very much of the time, he seems very confused about if he wants to be sexual or not....even if he's the one to start something off. It's so dissorienting.


He is very dedicated to his healing, and so many things have already improved, so I have hope.....but still i worry about what the future holds and if either of us are truly happy in this relationship, or ever will be,


peace
Beccy


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#132716 - 01/15/07 04:46 AM Re: my boyfriend
AshSurvived Offline
Member

Registered: 01/07/07
Posts: 167
Loc: Australia
Beccy I feel for you and if you like, and if I can convince her, I'd like you to talk to my wife. With me the sexual identity is primarily focussed around bondage, with me as the sub. It used to be a huge problem for us, particularly when I decided I was being a fraud by suppressing it and began to act out. Much of what you feel is similar to my wife and I think you would both benfit through talking.

Other thoughts I had about you situation revolve around your other half getting help: is he posting here and using the chat. Gay style fantasies and urge are very normal and I can imainge that with a female abuser as well he must be really confused. But what he is experiencing is part of trauma, it's not real behaviour, it's directly from the abuse and it's not permanent.

Anyway, I will head over to the friends forum and have a look around before I say any more, becuase I don't know the whole story. BUT, there's nothing stopping you from using the chat, you can learn a lot from other guys in his position. Also I want to validate your insight regarding your son: grown men DO need that kind of love, especially if they are still a child in their abuse: still partially trapped in that child-victim state as I am.

I said I'd shut up, but the attitude of MY needs will get you bugger all to nowhere I'm afraid, you're not talking to a rational adult, you're talking to a hurt boy. And your conditioning (possibly including your political idealism...?) is coming from a completely different place to his. he hasn't been programmed to put himself first and even consider his needs. The sexual acting out you have tried will most likely only lead to more confusion because you are approaching it sensibly and it's anything but sensible, people aren't sensible when they survive a stabbing or a car crash, creating car crash fantasies or reliving the stabbing may be what they want but it may just send them further awy from you and down the rabbit hole. I spent rather a lot of time down there I can tell you.

We two have been together 10 years, no kids, and sex was always shite. What someone said above about his emotions is also key: he will lie to you and believe that men are emotionless automatons who 'need' porn or 'need' this and that, it's all bullshit, don't fall for it, it's his abuse and it's society's abuse speaking through him. Basically he needs a good shrink, I finally found one and he's helping me a great deal.

_________________________
"It's your world Dave, I'm just livin' in it"

- Harvey Pekar to David Letterman
(American Splendour)

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#132717 - 01/15/07 05:41 AM Re: my boyfriend
Brokenhearted Offline
Member

Registered: 08/07/06
Posts: 644
Loc: TX
Ash, I have to chime in here b/c I was just wondering if your urge to be dominated has been something you have been able to control more or even want less since having a good shrink. It is encouraging to read that you have a wife b/c it must mean that your marriage is surviving....

_________________________
Brokenhearted

It were better for him that a millstone were hanged around his neck, and he cast into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little ones.
Luke 17:2

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#132718 - 01/15/07 11:55 AM Re: my boyfriend
beccy Offline
Member

Registered: 05/28/06
Posts: 449
Loc: england
Thanks Ash,

that's a really interesting post you wrote there....


When you say these fantasies are not permanent, does that mean they have changed for you? I can personally relate to this, as I have had fantasies myself, which I no longer feel as drawn to. I feel that now I just want intimacy and I think I have more of an idea of what that is. I realise now, that's what i wanted from the start with bf, but didn't really know it back then(due to my own past). I have tried for real connection with bf on and off through the years, but realise now, that it triggers him. I always took this personally. I don't really have much confidence left in this department. I really want to feel loved/wanted/desired by bf sexually and realise this means lots of expression on his part. I've never really experienced that with a man properly and feel a bit sad for myself I suppose. It's become clearer recently, that he does actaully find my body attractive, but at the moment, he can't really open himself up to really connect. It does worry me, I can't deny that. I understand the fetish-type fantasy, but still worry that he might actually be more attracted to men than women. I am trying to stick to the facts though, which are that he's here with me and hasn't actually done anything with any man. I can't deny though, that the few times he sat there and told me he thought he was gay/lusted after men more etc, are etched in my mind and refuse to go away. I feel completely insecure and like I can never compete with that. I am not a man, will never have a penis, loads of body hair, male energy. Along with those things, and the fact his fantasy is the opposite of what my own has been, I just have major anxiety that he'll never be satisfied with me. Also, because we've played out(kind of) some of my fanasies, I feel very bad that I can't return the favour. And I just don'tunderstand what all that meant to him if it was the opposite of what he wanted? I was always asking him if he really wanted to do it/if it got him off etc......


My bf doesn't come here to this site. He does see a good T and also a good homeopath.

If your wife would like to chat, I'd welcome a PM....

Thankyou again for your post,

peace
Beccy


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