Newest Members
PaulnMA, andrewmartin, Aurigny, Luther, LuckyCharm
12252 Registered Users
Today's Birthdays
Beyond Abuse (51), dona (55), JoMiFa (35), norbrill1 (62), RubyRoberts (62)
Who's Online
2 registered (Rich1967, CafeMan), 71 Guests and 5 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Stats
12252 Members
73 Forums
63107 Topics
441319 Posts

Max Online: 418 @ 07/02/12 07:29 AM
Twitter
Topic Options
#132607 - 10/11/06 11:34 PM New Here - Was this Abuse?
coconut Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 10/11/06
Posts: 2
Well, I've been searching for answers, and I stumbled onto this site. Here's my story, and I'd like your feedback.

When I was young (4? I'm not really sure) I remember staying with my aunt/uncle/cousins for awhile. During that time, I remember "fooling around" with my older male cousin (8 years older than me). As far as I remember, this consisted of me holding his penis, including me holding his penis when he had to pee, etc. I remember being fascinated with the size of his penis, and his pubic hair. I certainly never considered this to be abuse, as I was not scared of him, and I enjoyed myself. In fact, I enjoyed getting attention from an older male. (My father was very distant, and my older brothers and I were not that close). I recall hoping during later visits to their house that we could do this kind of stuff some more, but I don't recall it ever happening with hiim again.

When I was older (10 maybe?), one of my older brothers (4 years older), would get me to play "show and tell". The pretty much consisted of showing each other our penises, and putting our penises in each others mouths. Once again, I remember being fascinated seeing a post-pubescent male body (large penis, pubic hair).

Would either of these two situations be considered sexual abuse? In my mind, I've always felt that since I didn't mind it (in fact liked it), it wasn't abuse. Comments please ...

I have been sexually confused my whole life ... (I'm in my early 40s now). I have never had a serious relationship with a woman, and I feel claustrophoic if I feel that a chance for a relationship is starting to blossom. I push people away. I have sexual fantasies about men, but I have never acted on this. I guess it strikes me that it might be related to these childhood incidents, as I'm still fascinated by (male) pubic hair, and I'm attracted to the "cool guys". (As in, my cool older cousin wanting to "do stuff" with me, when my own father didn't spend much time with me). I have no desire/interest in anal sex, and I don't really think about having a relationship with a man. Howver, with woman and sex, I have a bit of a madonna/whore complex ... there's something "dirty" about women being sexual in my contorted brain.

Anyway, I feel very confused by my sexuality. I've been hiding all of this for as long as I can remember. Does anyone have any advice?


Top
#132608 - 10/12/06 12:35 AM Re: New Here - Was this Abuse?
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
Coconut,

Sometimes it's really difficult to decide whether a sexual episode between two children was abusive or just an example of kid's curiosity. After all, according to some estimates up to a third of boys have sexual experiences with other boys before or during puberty.

The key to the difference is whether or not there was an equality of power between the two boys. That is, do they have the same level of understanding of sex and what it means to be sexual with another person? Was it possible to say No without negative consequences (being mocked, beaten, teased, shamed, or threatened, for example)? If one boy, almost always the odler one, has some kind of control over the other, then the act is likely to be abusive. For example, I might not want to give my older brother oral sex, but he knows I did something naughty and threatens to tell on me. Or he says he won't play with me anymore or include me in things he does. If I agree to be sexual with him on that basis I am being abused: it wasn't okay for me to say no.

On this basis both of the episodes you describe were probably abusive. In the first, if you didn't do what your 12-year-old cousin wanted he probably would have stopped paying attention to you or playing with you; you were being manipulated. In the second, a 14-year-old is old enough to know that when he gets his 10-year-old little brother to be sexual with him he is tricking and misusing him. Whether one holds a 12 or 14-year-old responsible for what happened is another matter entirely - abuse has still occurred.

On "liking it", you should not judge yourself for that or think it makes what happened less abusive. We are all sexual beings, and if a boy is stimulated, a response of physical pleasure (or erection or orgasm) just means his body is working as it's supposed to. It doesn't mean he understands what's going on, and in fact it often happens that a boy who is very frightened and DOESN'T like what's being done to him will still respond physically.

You raise other issues and I'm not surprised you feel confused sexually. I'm glad you found the site and I hope it can help you to talk about things. Just set your own pace and do what feels comfortable. We will all listen and support you here.

Much love,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

Top
#132609 - 10/12/06 01:42 AM Re: New Here - Was this Abuse?
Grunty1967b Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/28/05
Posts: 823
Loc: Australia
Coconut,

I donít want to say again what Larry said, because I agree with everything he said but I felt it important for you to hear from another survivor that can validate what you are feeling and hear from another person and hear them say the same thing to you.

What happened was abuse and what you are feeling now is the affects of that abuse.

Congratulations on taking these steps on your recovery. I look forward to seeing you around. Welcome to MS.


Top
#132610 - 10/13/06 08:13 AM Re: New Here - Was this Abuse?
Ivanhoe Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/19/03
Posts: 1907
Many of us were sexalized early in our lives and we have felt as you do about being confused. Just wanted to add my support and welcome to you, and to mention that most communities have helping, caring therapists to help folks get beyong this kind of stuff that keeps us from enjoying life as it ought to be enjoyed. Most mental health folks can help you find a qualified therapist. While you'll find great support here, you really ought to find someone who can talk to you about your specific situation. You'll find that most of this will make sense to you and you can stop letting it control your life. You have a right to enjoy a meaningful relationship. Strength and courage to you as you find your way through to recovery.

Peace,

David

_________________________
"No soul is desolate as long as there is a human being for whom it can feel trust and reverence."
George Eliot

Top
#146525 - 03/22/07 01:00 PM Re: New Here - Was this Abuse? [Re: Ivanhoe]
heal2serve Offline
New Here

Registered: 03/22/07
Posts: 1
Coconut,

Just some encouragement. In my own personal experience, I also always struggled with the "enjoyment" factor of the abuse, I believe for some of the reasons expressed above. Mainly, my birth father went AWOL and the other men in my mom's life never wanted anything to do with me. I craved for that love and affection of a caring father and his absolute acceptance of me. I never got it. But I recieved it in a very wrong, sick and twisted way. Nevertheless, this created the thinking patterns of a small child to look to this for the love and acceptance. For me, this has been the majority of my struggle with finding healing from the abuse. I too have struggled with sexual identity issues. But in time I have found healing (i'm still dealing with the "side effects" so to speak) but I believer you can and will find the help you need as can we all. I'm proud of your steps taken through working through these very painful, and difficult things to speak about. Prayers and love to you.


Top
#221502 - 04/29/08 04:33 PM Re: New Here - Was this Abuse? [Re: heal2serve]
RobertRent Offline


Registered: 04/29/08
Posts: 11
When I was teen a couple preteen boys were questioning me about the size of my penis. We just pulled down our shorts and did some comparsaion. We also tasted each others penis.
The expericinces never made me gay or I considered abuse. Just boys that were curious.


Top
#221615 - 04/29/08 11:54 PM Re: New Here - Was this Abuse? [Re: RobertRent]
bp83 Offline
Member

Registered: 06/29/06
Posts: 111
Loc: Arkansas
Hi, I'm Scott.

Your story sounds nearly identical to mine...except that I'm 24 and I don't have definite memories of physical contact like yours (oral sex).

My brother use to pee in between my legs when I was doing number 2 (he is 6 years older than me).

_________________________
-
Scott

"Life is for living, we all know, and I don't want to live it alone..."-Chris Martin

Top
#221854 - 05/01/08 05:35 AM Re: New Here - Was this Abuse? [Re: RobertRent]
dking777 Offline
Guest

Registered: 03/17/08
Posts: 94
Loc: CA
Originally Posted By: RobertRent
When I was teen a couple preteen boys were questioning me about the size of my penis. We just pulled down our shorts and did some comparsaion. We also tasted each others penis.
The expericinces never made me gay or I considered abuse. Just boys that were curious.


What is appropate play - and what is inapproate play?

Just curious myself.

Sincerely,
DKing





Edited by dking777 (10/25/09 12:37 AM)
_________________________
And may you be in heaven
half an hour before the devil knows you're dead.

Bittersweet Symphony

Top
#221985 - 05/01/08 05:12 PM Re: New Here - Was this Abuse? [Re: dking777]
Calanthe Offline
New Here

Registered: 01/24/08
Posts: 109
Loc: California
Dking,

I am just amazed at your story. I cannot believe how healthy your father and the others fathers were. It is like you were raised on another planet from the one I was raised on.

I relate to many parts of your story expect that in my experience it all happened without adult supervision or awareness. I was the kid on the block who matured the fastest and the first and all the other boys were curious. It started out very innocent mostly show tell etc. But as the other guys matured we all got quite creative in our explorations and our new games. I think a couple of the kids in our group were CSA victims because they thought of games that had never occurred to us and were sex plan and simple.

I canít imagine how much different and healthy this explorations would have been for all of us if there had been any healthy adult supervision. I know because of the intensity of where our behavior finally ended up there was a lot of shame and guilt and confusion around our sexuality and who we were. I do not know how the others dealt with it. But a couple of these kids were my brothers and I know they have suffered from a lot of confusion over the years and I think parts of this experience contributed to their extreme homophobia. But a little adult input and guidance would have changed this whole experience for all of us and it was large group at least 10-14 guys between the ages of 9-12 and it went on for 3 or 4 years, so a lot boys were affected.

As far as your question I donít know who much to say or what to say but if a parent waits until a child is 13 they have missed the boat for a lot of us. I had another boy playing show and tell with me in the school bathroom when we were age 6-7 and actually there where other kids before then so yeah some dialogue at an early age would be helpful.

And what is appropriate and not appropriate. When do you cross the line from exploration and when does it become sexual. I mean I know that even the exploration takes on a different meaning once those involved have reached puberty. At least it did for my group of friends. And what should a parent do if it goes too far. A lot of that depends on the parent child relationship and the other parents and children involved.

LOL it make me glad I am not a parent. I do not know if I could have been as healthy as your father on this issue.

Again thanks for sharing what I think is one of the healthiest stories I have ever read concerning dealing with this issue with boys or budding young men.

Scott

_________________________
You can't save your Ass and your Face at the same time. (Anonymous)

And given the choice I will save my ass first everytime(STC)

Top
#222081 - 05/02/08 02:22 AM Re: New Here - Was this Abuse? [Re: Calanthe]
dking777 Offline
Guest

Registered: 03/17/08
Posts: 94
Loc: CA
Originally Posted By: Calanthe
I am just amazed at your story. I cannot believe how healthy your father and the others fathers were. It is like you were raised on another planet from the one I was raised on.



I wish you and all the best on your continuing road to recovery.









Edited by dking777 (10/25/09 12:36 AM)
_________________________
And may you be in heaven
half an hour before the devil knows you're dead.

Bittersweet Symphony

Top


Moderator:  ModTeam, peroperic2009 

I agree that my access and use of the MaleSurvivor discussion forums and chat room is subject to the terms of this Agreement. AND the sole discretion of MaleSurvivor.
I agree that my use of MaleSurvivor resources are AT-WILL, and that my posting privileges may be terminated at any time, and for any reason by MaleSurvivor.